Personal Attacks

Submitted: Wednesday, Mar 06, 2019 at 10:47
ThreadID: 137904 Views:3632 Replies:15 FollowUps:54
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Why do so many people on forum sites have the need to attack opinion/advice so personally, if you have opinion by all means put your opinion/advice on the forum, but please do it without malice
I have noticed that Michelle (Exploroz team) has had to remind users on this site more & more lately & remember none of us are perfect & the person that has never made a mistake has never made or done anything. If there is a mistake in spelling or whatever it can be pointed out in a manner that is not hurtful.
I have had several spelling mistakes picked up & most times they have been pointed out in a humerus way with no malice intended or taken & far better way to be advised/educated
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Reply By: Member - DOZER - Wednesday, Mar 06, 2019 at 10:54

Wednesday, Mar 06, 2019 at 10:54
There are many reasons, one being there is no consequence other than a possible repremand, one wouldnt say such things face to face in fear of a biff on the nose...for instance...the other reality, is it is easy to take replies out of context with text, missing is all the gestures one makes with eyes/ mouth/ hands....
b4 you bag me out, walk a mile in my shoes, then your a mile away and have my shoes :)

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Reply By: Hewy54 - Wednesday, Mar 06, 2019 at 11:01

Wednesday, Mar 06, 2019 at 11:01
I am at fault for sometimes picking up on spelling mistakes.
In this case I can see that you do not mind if the response if humorous, and in this case it did not cause any "arm". (pun intended)
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Follow Up By: duck - Wednesday, Mar 06, 2019 at 11:27

Wednesday, Mar 06, 2019 at 11:27
deliberate mistake to see reaction (LOL) good one Hewy54
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Reply By: Member - ACD 1 - Wednesday, Mar 06, 2019 at 11:03

Wednesday, Mar 06, 2019 at 11:03
Children do it and it’s called “Cyberbullying”

Adults do it and it’s accepted as their right because apparently “you have to earn respect”, not show it...

The decline of societal expectations!

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Follow Up By: garrycol - Wednesday, Mar 06, 2019 at 11:51

Wednesday, Mar 06, 2019 at 11:51
No when adults do it, it is also called Cyber bullying. I go on about 20 forums and this is by far the worse for unacceptable behaviour.

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Follow Up By: Member - ACD 1 - Wednesday, Mar 06, 2019 at 12:37

Wednesday, Mar 06, 2019 at 12:37
Yes! I agree with you 100% garrycol

What I am pointing out is the hypocrisy of the attitude of some adults.

This was the recent excuse someone posted for their poor behaviour towards another forum member.

Obviously the saying - “Do as I say, not as I do!” Would be applicable here.

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Reply By: Glenn C5 - Wednesday, Mar 06, 2019 at 11:25

Wednesday, Mar 06, 2019 at 11:25
It all starts at the top. Have a listen to our so called highly educated, politically correct politicians. Nothing but a foul mouthed mob pushing their own agenda.
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Follow Up By: Mudripper - Wednesday, Mar 06, 2019 at 12:14

Wednesday, Mar 06, 2019 at 12:14
Politics/politicians is/are merely a reflection of society.
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Follow Up By: Member - Broodie H3 - Thursday, Mar 07, 2019 at 06:13

Thursday, Mar 07, 2019 at 06:13
POLITITICIANS are they a reflection of society?????, one does wonder sometimes.
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Reply By: Member - shane r1 - Wednesday, Mar 06, 2019 at 12:06

Wednesday, Mar 06, 2019 at 12:06
I find that it is worthwhile, rereading posts to interpret any mistakes.
And that is other people’s and my own before I submit.(and correct mine hopefully)
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Follow Up By: Les - PK Ranger - Wednesday, Mar 06, 2019 at 13:10

Wednesday, Mar 06, 2019 at 13:10
Auto correct (especially on phones with their small keypads and screens) can make posting very haphazard.

I usually correct anything before posting, but sometimes miss something, and either go back to edit (and painfully reinsert para spaces !!), or if it’s easy enough to see the real meaning etc, lately I just leave it !!
Life’s too short to be editing too often.
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Follow Up By: Member - johnat - Thursday, Mar 07, 2019 at 21:07

Thursday, Mar 07, 2019 at 21:07
Autocorrect is a much used (and often over used) excuse, Les.
It is perfectly possible to turn it off. It is also perfectly simple to turn it off.
That many do not bother means that they accept the consequences of their errors.
I, as a long term teacher, and accustomed to correcting errors, am often astounded at the grammatical and spelling errors (both here and in several other fora I inhabit) and am often guilty of pointing out these - especially where they affect understanding. IF the point of writing something is to communicate, there's no point making errors that detract from that communication, is there?
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Reply By: Genny - Wednesday, Mar 06, 2019 at 12:27

Wednesday, Mar 06, 2019 at 12:27
I admit, I am a spelling and grammar nazi. I am always pleased when somebody responds to my gentle teasing with a laugh and good grace. Such is not always the case. Sadly, our schools are turning out thousands of illiterate young adults. You may have seen our illustrious Prime Minister de jour espousing on this very subject in the last few days.

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Follow Up By: Hewy54 - Wednesday, Mar 06, 2019 at 14:09

Wednesday, Mar 06, 2019 at 14:09
I too tend to be a grammar Nazi, but find it is not the young that are at fault. Most of the forums I am on are for more "mature" people and it shows that it is not just a result of the current education system churning out illiterate young adults, but shows up huge problems of our past system.
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Follow Up By: Genny - Wednesday, Mar 06, 2019 at 14:22

Wednesday, Mar 06, 2019 at 14:22
To be fair, the rot started nearly forty years ago, and has been accelerating ever since. That easily explains the presence on mature forums. I'm at a loss to explain how you don't see it in the young folks written communications.
Some of the posts on our local "Buy Swap Sell" are so garbled, I literally have no idea what they are selling.
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Follow Up By: eaglefree - Wednesday, Mar 06, 2019 at 14:51

Wednesday, Mar 06, 2019 at 14:51
Every older generation that comes of age criticise the younger ones. For example- "c u after I have 8 my meal". How horrific. But how many of us understood that stayement? Maybe all of us, do although it isnt correct conventional english, it is effevtive communication, irritating for some but not for the young.

If you ate 70yo now you wete amongst the pot smoking flower power age group (not necessarily a participant). Imagine the old people then? Judging us young people.

Do it annoys me that some older generation grumpies judge the young when most of us have our own skeletons tucked away in a cupboard.

C u L8r
Tony
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Follow Up By: Genny - Wednesday, Mar 06, 2019 at 15:52

Wednesday, Mar 06, 2019 at 15:52
Oh look! There's one!
What's a "stayement"? Did you mean "statement"? What if he didn't, and I continue under a false assumption? I wonder what "effevtive communication" is?
Effective communication, at it's simplest, can be broken down to two things:-
- Say what you mean.
- Mean what you say.
If the other parties have to guess what you meant to say, that is not effective communication.
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Follow Up By: AlbyNSW - Wednesday, Mar 06, 2019 at 21:18

Wednesday, Mar 06, 2019 at 21:18
Part of the issue is that correct grammar and spelling is an important part of life for some and think it is a critical part of communication. For others not so much, the internet is a melting pot for people from all walks of life with different levels of education and perhaps english being a second language.
I wonder how many of you spelling Nazis would correct someone face to face after you had a better understanding of the persons background ?

Correct spelling is way way down on the list of how I measure a person. I would much rather communicate with someone interesting with poor literacy skills than someone well educated in the area but has nothing interesting to say but can say it correctly.

Some people need to lighten up a little, this is not a classroom
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Follow Up By: Baz - The Landy - Wednesday, Mar 06, 2019 at 21:39

Wednesday, Mar 06, 2019 at 21:39
Well said Alby...!

Cheers Baz

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Follow Up By: Michael H9 - Wednesday, Mar 06, 2019 at 22:55

Wednesday, Mar 06, 2019 at 22:55
Alby, I just marked your response as an A+ :-)
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Follow Up By: OutBack Wanderer - Thursday, Mar 07, 2019 at 00:10

Thursday, Mar 07, 2019 at 00:10
My dad said, Never argue with an idiot, they'll bring you down to their level and beat you with experience

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Follow Up By: OutBack Wanderer - Thursday, Mar 07, 2019 at 00:24

Thursday, Mar 07, 2019 at 00:24
What Alby said, melting pot of ppl.

From what I can see is perfect English words I assume from perfect English speaking members, who were brought up in only English speaking schools.

I wonder what the grammar members would say if we had an Italian or Polish or Russian trying to get the question across in broken English.

He/she is trying their best from the little English they've learned to get an answer from the forums

The last thing they need is ridicule because of their poor understanding of English

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Follow Up By: Member - Broodie H3 - Thursday, Mar 07, 2019 at 06:25

Thursday, Mar 07, 2019 at 06:25
My Dad use to say there was no such thing as an idiot, because you can learn something from every person you meet with a smile, it took me a few years to work that one out until some one called me an idiot and all I had was a difference of opinion, and a separate perspective of looking at life. I am happy as an idiot.
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Follow Up By: Genny - Thursday, Mar 07, 2019 at 07:55

Thursday, Mar 07, 2019 at 07:55
Nevertheless, I stand by my view. Spelling and grammar are important, and deliberately dumbing things down to cater for the lowest common denominator is not a path to improvement.

"Ah! A landcruiser driver! You must be affluent!" is not the same as "Ah! A landcruiser driver! You must be effluent!"

If I was crass enough to make either statement, you wouldn't have to guess what I meant! Some of the others, you wouldn't know if they were envious or insulting.

"I helped Uncle Jack off his horse" shows commendable compassion for your relative, "I helped uncle jack off his horse" may get you arrested.


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Follow Up By: AlbyNSW - Thursday, Mar 07, 2019 at 12:32

Thursday, Mar 07, 2019 at 12:32
Genny I am not disagreeing with you, of course it would be better if we were all effluent/ affluent :) in the local language, I just don’t think this is the appropriate platform to do it.

To look at it from another angle, would you rather a member shared information that is of benefit to other members here be it in less than perfect English or they just keep it to themselves because of the ramifications of attempting to do so?

I don’t see how this forum benefits from less participation from its members

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Follow Up By: Member - David M (SA) - Thursday, Mar 07, 2019 at 17:13

Thursday, Mar 07, 2019 at 17:13
I would much prefer to communicate with someone who is capable of giving his opinion without the Nazis references.
Dave.
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Follow Up By: Member - johnat - Thursday, Mar 07, 2019 at 21:18

Thursday, Mar 07, 2019 at 21:18
Alby, I will correct your spelling face-to-face if necessary.
It is true, this is not a classroom, but the whole point of typing something here is to communicate something you feel is important. If it is NOT important, why bother? If it IS important, then making it easier to understand is equally important, and that implies making an effort to ensure that the writing is correct.

All that said, minor errors (such as "fat finger" stuff - "ion" instead of "in" for example) can be easily overlooked. Not so much "it's" when the intent is not "it is" or "it (owns something)".
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Follow Up By: Michael H9 - Friday, Mar 08, 2019 at 07:57

Friday, Mar 08, 2019 at 07:57
I'm afraid that you can't help but form an opinion of someone based on the spelling, grammar and structure of their written response. It all adds up to indicate a certain level of intelligence and education. This affects how much credence you give to their opinion, and that's fine. What is unacceptable, is having a go at someone who doesn't meet those standards. That's just plain rude and reflects just as badly on the person doing the criticism, only in a different way. People don't really choose to be uneducated, but you can choose to be polite and respectful by not publicly ridiculing them. We are all advertising our IQ's and personalities here.

BTW, don't make the mistake of thinking an obvious foreigner is stupid. Try writing your response in something like Russian or Chinese and see how intelligent you appear. They are doing well to be fluent in a second language, something most Australians cannot do.
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Follow Up By: Alloy c/t - Friday, Mar 08, 2019 at 11:35

Friday, Mar 08, 2019 at 11:35
Fact of life gentlemen and ladies , or should that be 'dude and dudets' is that Language both written and spoken is an evolving process that is unstoppable , if it were not we would all be 'writing' in hyroglifics [ come on pick-up the spelling mistake ] and speaking in 'Latin' .....where for art thou the ' Emoji ' the new symbols of comunication that are really thousands of years old ....
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Follow Up By: AlbyNSW - Friday, Mar 08, 2019 at 13:07

Friday, Mar 08, 2019 at 13:07
Johnat have you ever considered that when people post with poor English they are doing so to the best of their ability? It might not be to YOUR standard but that is your issue not theirs.
By all means seek clarification from the poster if needed but respectfully

From what I have seen on this forum over the years there are a number of members that passed their English and Literacy exams with flying colours but did not fair so well in etiquette
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Follow Up By: Shaker - Friday, Mar 08, 2019 at 15:40

Friday, Mar 08, 2019 at 15:40
On a lighter note, I have often wondered what fuel pump people that spell ‘desal’ pull up to!
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Follow Up By: Michael H9 - Friday, Mar 08, 2019 at 18:41

Friday, Mar 08, 2019 at 18:41
Maybe the one near the oil refinery at Kurnell?
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Reply By: eaglefree - Wednesday, Mar 06, 2019 at 15:55

Wednesday, Mar 06, 2019 at 15:55
I'd like to address the topic of personal attacks.

I'm quite intolerant of people out of the blue throwing in comments that upset others. Not only is it cowardice but not necessary.
For example-

Someone goes off a forum (not this one) for 6 months due to a dispute. Upon their return in any topic he puts "the quality of some members here leaves a lot to be desired as the cowards hide behind a keyboard" or similar comment.

Years ago I'd tolerate such comments. If they were directed at me, I'd leave it alone and go and brood for a while. Not now. I feel like embracing the Einstein way- equal and opposite force but not as spiteful. In the example above I could reply "are you hiding behind yours"?

My point is, that it is apt to remind them that they are being hypocritical without returning nasty comments. These "rock throwers" know they usually get away with it. Moderators cant be expected to live their whole life policing every comment.

That's just my view of which I'm entitled.
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Follow Up By: ExplorOz Team - Michelle - Thursday, Mar 07, 2019 at 14:31

Thursday, Mar 07, 2019 at 14:31
Hi TonyRD, yes you raise a good point - we need to work together to ensure passive aggressive bullying, belittling, trolling, and autocratic behaviour in responses is addressed by the forum community and not passed over. This should not be left to the moderators as it often is very subtle and if not picked up instantly the damage is done so when you see it - make mention of it, I think this may be the only course of action that might bring about a cultural change here in the Forum.

However - this has to be done with great care and not done as an accusation or a reprimand but a "reminder" or hint that their response could have come across as autocratic or condescending and a suggestion to rephrase it in a more helpful way.

If you're the one that has said something carelessly, then none of us should be beneath giving an apology. If you can't then that says something about you...

Sadly, the act of apologising represents a major threat to some people's basic sense of identity and self-esteem and it opens the door to shame rather than guilt because they see admission of wrongdoing as a character assassination - some people just cannot separate their actions from their character. Unfortunately, genuine narcissists exist in society so if we have some amongst us, then no matter what we do, we may not change them because they will always come back and gaslight the situation and blame the moderators, the management, etc. These are people who cannot accept responsibility for their own actions - these are the people who can only respond by turning the argument back on itself so that you doubt yourself. They are often highly educated people with great vocabularies and have usually worked hard to establish their reputations as experts in various matters and particularly in online communities they are often admired for their valuable input but tolerated for for fear of poking the bear. These are the ones that once pushed, they'll go off in a blazing public huff and it's all someone else's fault... (wind back the clocks 10 yrs or so and many of you will remember a few of those characters).
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Reply By: ExplorOz Team - Michelle - Wednesday, Mar 06, 2019 at 16:22

Wednesday, Mar 06, 2019 at 16:22
One of the greatest strengths of our Forum community is also becoming its greatest weakness - the experienced and educated who have so much to share.

Some people here feel they cannot leave any post unanswered if it contains "errors" of fact or logic. In their defence, they genuinely feel they are doing the right thing by giving the correct information or challenging a viewpoint with their own more educated/experienced viewpoint. I know that some also believe it is a safety risk to have posts left unchallenged for a perceived risk of some unsuspecting "newbie" coming to harm as a result of finding "incorrect" advice or information on a forum. Some also believe that an online source with a reputation such as ours also has some sort of legal obligation to ensure every post is factual - sorry folks but that is simply not true. Please read on...

The problem is that often-times any attempt to correct or debate can quickly spiral downhill and actually become counterproductive to the helpfulness of the response. If the explanation is delivered in such a way that the person feels shamed then the person is completely alienated and they have only 2 options - to fight back, or to retreat. Neither is a positive outcome.

The onus then falls back onto those that respond to posts. You must take responsibility for the delivery of your response.

Here are some guidelines:

1. Ask yourself why is it so important to be right – why can’t you let the person with the “foolish” idea have his say without being “corrected” by you. MYTH - it is a safety issue. FACT - it doesn't matter, you are not liable, ExplorOz is not liable.

2. Pointing out grammar/spelling errors is old-fashioned classism and elitism. When you comment on someone's errors you are shutting them down and excluding them from the conversation because of their lack of exposure to, or understanding of, the rules of grammar. You are implying that they are uneducated, which implies their point of view is meaningless. This is passive aggressive behaviour and whilst you might not agree, the evidence stands that it does great harm to the reputation of the ExplorOz community - so the message is clear - grammatical elitism helps no one.

3. Be helpful or say nothing. Silence speaks a thousand words.

4. Healthy debate is good. You can debate an idea without attacking the person. There is no need to illustrate the strength of your argument by belittling others. Always remember point 1. If your POV is not convincing enough, leave it be rather than come back to attack from another angle. Even if "you know" they are wrong.

5. If you want to challenge a statement, start with something positive - cushion the blow, try "I know you've put a ton of time and effort into this plan and it looks great but have you considered....", Use Questions to steer someone's thinking. Phrasing things as questions invites thoughtful
conversation rather than being overbearing and autocratic

6. Avoid sounding authoritative - being overly authoritative, confrontational and close-minded when making a correction will only make you look pretentious and condescending.

7. Offer help, rather than state your qualifications and experience just to illustrate your superiority. Ask for more information to help get the full picture and explain that knowing more will help give a more useful response and avoid misunderstandings/poor responses

8. Be a part of the solution - if you genuinely like to be a part of the ExplorOz Forum Community - then look at these guidelines and reconsider how you are contributing. Remember it is a MYTH that we have any obligation for factual correctness in Forum posts so don't use that as an excuse for continued and unnecessary nit picking PLEASE.

Finally, can I just say to anyone that thinks they recognise themselves in this discussion that I'm not looking to name/shame anyone in particular. It can be a very grey area for moderation and that is how/why these discussions cannot be steered successfully without causing unnecessary blow ups. We understand that often a person's ill-received response can happen quite unintentionally and with all good intentions. But I hope you will agree, its time to bring it to the fore so that we can openly discuss how to address it.

I honestly hope no one will take personal offence to calling out these issues as I have, as everyone is still very much wanted and needed in our Forum community. All I ask is that you take on board what's been said.
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Follow Up By: Member - David M (SA) - Wednesday, Mar 06, 2019 at 21:20

Wednesday, Mar 06, 2019 at 21:20
What you don't seem to realise Michelle is that people who think they know everything are very annoying to those that do.
Dave.
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Follow Up By: Member - Broodie H3 - Thursday, Mar 07, 2019 at 06:42

Thursday, Mar 07, 2019 at 06:42
thank you Michelle, I am now 70 years old at 18 I thought I knew everything, so I left home, at 25 I got married had a couple of children, that is when I realized I didn't know anything, and 45 years later I have some experience, but I do know Ill never know everything, and on this forum there is a wealth of experience that I don't have and a lot more knowledge.
thank you very much for you input into this conversation, it has been needed for some time
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Follow Up By: duck - Thursday, Mar 07, 2019 at 08:31

Thursday, Mar 07, 2019 at 08:31
Sorry Michelle I did not mean to stir anything up that would cause you the need to reply & it’s my mistake by putting the word “Why” in it, most of us know why & I should have just put Hi Forum contributors let’s just drop the Malice & keep this the great forum site it is
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Follow Up By: ExplorOz Team - Michelle - Thursday, Mar 07, 2019 at 14:37

Thursday, Mar 07, 2019 at 14:37
No Duck, its fine :)
Was time to have this discussion. I was alerted to the issue over a year ago and have been watching the Forum intently and talking to the Modsquad about it ever since and trying to figure out what can be done. I have also put a lot of time lately into researching the behaviours of narcissistic people as sadly I've had to deal with quite a few and I can see we have them here in our Forum. It is just much harder to deal with them in a Forum when they are part of a community you manage, rather than a social interaction where you can just walk away or minimise your time with them.
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Follow Up By: Alloy c/t - Friday, Mar 08, 2019 at 11:20

Friday, Mar 08, 2019 at 11:20
The very true definition of an 'expert' is a drip under pressure .. We have many many on this forum who 'deem' themselves 'experts' and will not accept any form of criticism on their 'expertise' be it a very simple question on how many pairs of 'jocks' required for a Simpson Desert crossing to you MUST have this / that or you will DIE ....when in reality ??
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Reply By: nickb - Wednesday, Mar 06, 2019 at 20:48

Wednesday, Mar 06, 2019 at 20:48
If something is written where the meaning is clear but the grammar/spelling is incorrect is it really worth pointing it out and making an arse of yourself? If someone on a forum points out my grammar mistakes I just ignore them and their high horse. So what if I wrote ‘their’ instead of ‘there’? Look at the context of the message, if it needs correction because it is unclear of the overall message then it will be worth correcting it. If not, just let it slide, all it is doing is annoying others and making yourself look like a knob. Rightly or wrongly an Internet forum is not the place for correcting grammar/spelling!!

Personal attacks should just be ignored, simple as that. It’s just an anonymous forum.
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Reply By: Keith B2 - Wednesday, Mar 06, 2019 at 23:17

Wednesday, Mar 06, 2019 at 23:17
I read somewhere that there are two kinds of people:
people who correct other people's grammar; and
people with friends.
Keith
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Follow Up By: RMD - Thursday, Mar 07, 2019 at 10:54

Thursday, Mar 07, 2019 at 10:54
A great number of international students possess good English grammar and spelling skills, where ours who are supposedly educated in Australian schools are leaving yr 12 and entering uni, but are not so good. Our home grown students should theoretically be better.
Because Australian teachers don't correct either concept earlier in life, the Ozzie Uni student finds writing for uni qualifications quite challenging. Many unis have first year english and maths classes to try and bring our own people up to an acceptable level which they already should possess. Later at job interviews they are distinctly disadvantaged. Have a look at who gets the jobs!
Regarding the whole thread, claimed by some to be attacks. Nothing said would not be mentioned if face to face, ie, around campfire. Only those who can't accept discussion points of view or causes, suddenly indicate their knowledge/challenge limit has been reached by suggesting smacking someone in the mouth. That is attacking isn't it?
I don't get offended on behalf of someone else, but many seem to go looking each day for comments to be offended by. I see it as their sport for the day.
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Follow Up By: Allan B (Sunshine Coast) - Thursday, Mar 07, 2019 at 12:12

Thursday, Mar 07, 2019 at 12:12
.
I find agreement with some of RMD's expression above.

I was educated at a time when attention was given to grammar and spelling.
This has not been the case so much in schools since then.
I would credit this education with aiding my career and social relations in the following years. Even employment applications are likely to be cast aside if the reader struggles to interpret them.
My work included writing specifications and instructions which, if expressed with some of the writings I sometimes see, could result in poor, even disastrous results.

I saw the value of the teachings I received at school and continue to this day to pay attention to both my readings and my writings. That is not to say that I elect to use "big words" to impress others but choose my words and grammar carefully. If I read a word or phrase that I am not familiar with I find out what it means rather than just passing over it. Sure, that takes more of my time and makes me a slow reader. There is no way that I am going to 'get sloppy' simply to be accepted by others. I will try not to be 'superior' in my writings but I am damned if I will get sloppy just to be accepted.

Now comes the controversial part. If I put a post on this forum about dragging trailers across the Simpson I am likely to get responses telling me that I am wrong. Similarly with battery charging or a host of other subjects. I am fair game for argument or to be corrected in my expressions and I am expected to accept that gracefully.
BUT, if I were to refer to someone's spelling error (other than simple typing fumble) then all hell breaks loose. Even though such errors may confuse the message or cause difficulty in understanding.
It is as though I have sent a spear to the very heart of the writer. I have thought at length about it and conclude that we all know deep down that we should be competent in matters of spelling and grammar and that if the faults are pointed out then it highlights an inadequacy, a shortcoming, a weakness in the individual. No-one chooses to be a "bad writer" so it is an embarrassing self-image and any critic who elects to bring attention to it needs to be strongly and rapidly responded to.

The pity of it is that it is not so hard to improve one's writings. Just read what others write. If you consistently write "there stuff" yet read others saying "their stuff", pause to wonder if you are getting it right and even look it up.
Yes, it does take a little effort but there really are benefits of using good writing.

AND, if I consider that it is important to criticise someone's writings on here, I shall do so fearlessly knowing that there are many others who would agree, although possibly remain silent.


Cheers
Allan

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Follow Up By: Member - Warren H - Thursday, Mar 07, 2019 at 13:01

Thursday, Mar 07, 2019 at 13:01
I also wrote laboratory methods, technical reports, client reports, funding requests and papers for a living, as well as peer reviewing the work of colleagues. This type of writing is entirely different from a forum where the style is more akin to a chat. Personally, I spent so much time editing and writing dry prose that a bit of colloquial English and the odd typo is a breath of fresh air.
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Follow Up By: Member - Rowdy6032 (WA) - Thursday, Mar 07, 2019 at 13:39

Thursday, Mar 07, 2019 at 13:39
I have to agree with Alby when he says "the internet is a melting pot for people from all walks of life with different levels of education and perhaps english being a second language."

I was on the internet before it was made public and you had to type your commands in DOS. It was considered the height of bad manners to criticize others for their spelling or grammar.

Unless the question is not clear or understood the less said the better.
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Follow Up By: Allan B (Sunshine Coast) - Thursday, Mar 07, 2019 at 13:52

Thursday, Mar 07, 2019 at 13:52
.
Warren,
You see, it begins. Even though I endeavoured to make a comprehensive expression about the merits of better writing, not just on a forum but in general, you contrast only technical reports with casual forum writings. You missed the whole point of my post. Was it so incomprehensible, or did you not read beyond the first paragraph?

There is a relationship between comprehensive writing and chatting on a forum where it need not be precise but should at least be readable without puzzling over what was really meant by some words or phrases.

"colloquial English" or "the odd typo" should not include unclear expression.
Disagree if you will with my philosophy but for heavens sake, do not pick out little bits and throw them in my face! Surely people can "chat" on a forum without making a dog's breakfast of it.

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Follow Up By: Member - Warren H - Thursday, Mar 07, 2019 at 14:11

Thursday, Mar 07, 2019 at 14:11
Hi Allan,
No criticism of your opinion intended, merely that I am fairly relaxed about what I read on forums, if it's incomprehensible babble I just move on. For what it's worth, even after decades of writing for a living, I find a strange pressure when writing in a forum reply box that makes my writing feel awkward and my spelling terrible.
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Follow Up By: HKB Electronics - Thursday, Mar 07, 2019 at 14:40

Thursday, Mar 07, 2019 at 14:40
I don't recall any mention of grammar and spelling lessons in the forum topics.

Reality is there are many trade persons around with considerable knowledge of various topics discussed on this forum that may not have good literary skills.
If they are constantly brought to task for spelling and grammar mistakes then they aren't going to hang around for long.

If a error could end up in injury to others then yes point it out. If it is along the lines of 20 amps to run a fridge a day instead of 20Ah does it really matter, the majority will understand the different meaning, that ones that don't probably don't care and never will.

To me it seems there are those that have been on the forum a long time and act like they own it and things will be done "their" way like it or not.

I don't like to write this but personally I think it is time for the admins to take a stand, do they want the forum to be a friendly place where ideas can be exchanged without fear of being put down or do they let some forum members take control of the forum. It's not an easy call but the ball really is in your is in your court Michelle as you have acknowledged there is a problem.
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Follow Up By: nickb - Thursday, Mar 07, 2019 at 15:46

Thursday, Mar 07, 2019 at 15:46
As Warren said, if you don’t like what you read just go to the next topic. No need to point out people’s mistakes, they are asking for help on camping/caravanning/touring topics, no advice on grammar and spelling.

I hear a bit that “we were taught properly in our day” or similar. I guarantee that as many grammatically correct people there are in the 60+ year old bracket they are just as many that have terrible grammar!!!! You just don’t associate with them....
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Follow Up By: Member - johnat - Thursday, Mar 07, 2019 at 21:34

Thursday, Mar 07, 2019 at 21:34
nickb,
If what is written is not easily understood, the whole effort has been wasted.
If what is written is open to interpretation (because of poor spelling, use of incorrect wording, or - what's worse - plain old rubbish) then whose job is it to correct?
Having spent some time as a moderator on a couple of international fora, I am well aware of the time and effort required to do that job, and it is not as if the "Modsquad" get hugely recompensed for their time. They mostly do it out of personal interest, and free! Quite honestly, you could not pay me enough to do the moderator job unless I was very much interested in the subject matter!
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Follow Up By: nickb - Thursday, Mar 07, 2019 at 22:51

Thursday, Mar 07, 2019 at 22:51
Johnat, I agree 100% with you. BUT if anyone was willing to go through the all the threads on here over the last year, then identify which ones contain spelling/grammar corrections, I reckon I could count on my hands the number of threads that, if read in context, made zero sense at all. Fair enough correcting those, but when someone asks “wots your opinin on bfg at tires in mud” there is no need to correct the spelling or make snide remarks. Does anyone on here not understand that question? If it offends you just move to the next thread, correcting the grammar/spelling won’t change the meaning of the question.

Asking for more information is another topic altogether!!!!
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Follow Up By: duck - Friday, Mar 08, 2019 at 08:29

Friday, Mar 08, 2019 at 08:29
To Allan B (Sunshine Coast) I have no problem with readers correcting spelling or grammar if it’s done without malice, you have corrected my spelling & grammar several times but you have never done it with any malice intended or taken & it does help us who struggle with spelling & grammar who wish to improve.
It should be remembered that not all have had the chance/opportunity/ability to grasp spelling & grammar, in my workshop in which we hand build rescue equipment. The best workers are all dyslexic & our Quality Assurance documents are done in a manner to suit them/us & I would not swap one for someone who could spell correctly & their work has gone on to save a lot of lives on our beaches, rivers, bays etc.
My post was not meant to be about spelling or grammar it was to say let’s just drop the Malice & bring back the quality to this site or a lot of information will be lost
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Follow Up By: Allan B (Sunshine Coast) - Friday, Mar 08, 2019 at 08:59

Friday, Mar 08, 2019 at 08:59
.
Hi Duck,

I can only agree with what you have said, except I do not understand why you directed it to me. Did I say something that I now cannot find?

And I do appreciate your respect for your workers. I have past experience of interacting with clients in a sheltered workshop, and even currently dealing with intellectually handicaped individuals so I do understand where you are coming from.
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Allan

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Follow Up By: duck - Friday, Mar 08, 2019 at 09:45

Friday, Mar 08, 2019 at 09:45
Alan as I’m no longer a member I could not send member mgs & did not mean to single you out, it was not my intention & I apologise
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Reply By: equinox - Thursday, Mar 07, 2019 at 17:54

Thursday, Mar 07, 2019 at 17:54
How about a 3 month sin bin?
Decided by a quorum of moderators?
Looking for adventure.
In whatever comes our way.

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Follow Up By: eaglefree - Friday, Mar 08, 2019 at 09:38

Friday, Mar 08, 2019 at 09:38
With respect, are you offering to be one of those moderators?
Also, there is various levels of abrasiveness with some members of all forums, so does 3 months banishment fit all? In most cases it would be using a hammer on an ant and in my experience education, tact and understanding then subtle warnings should be used and dried up before such a hammer is considered.

Moderators...the best ones use force in moderation. ..
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Follow Up By: equinox - Friday, Mar 08, 2019 at 20:12

Friday, Mar 08, 2019 at 20:12
No thanks, EO already has them so no need for more. With a quorum it protects the individual moderators too.

EO used to ban people, I'm not sure why they ceased the practice.

I only mentioned it as it is a genuine solution that as far as I know lately, no one has mentioned.

Another solution is to remove anonymity ie. you have to provide driver license or passport to access the forum and you must use your real name. That would remove the keyboard warriors that are not warriors in real life.
Looking for adventure.
In whatever comes our way.

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Follow Up By: Shaker - Friday, Mar 08, 2019 at 22:27

Friday, Mar 08, 2019 at 22:27
They still ban people!
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Reply By: Member - Kiwi_In_Aussie(Wagga) - Friday, Mar 08, 2019 at 11:22

Friday, Mar 08, 2019 at 11:22
This video is reasonably long, but extremely well produced, and has a Queens song as its basis (can't get much better than that) and is definitely "on point" in regards to this thread IMO.
It's worth the watch ??

https://youtu.be/IABRgZH12YA

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Follow Up By: Member - ACD 1 - Friday, Mar 08, 2019 at 13:51

Friday, Mar 08, 2019 at 13:51
Gold!

Absolute Gold!

Well done you!

Cheers

Anthony
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Follow Up By: Frank P (NSW) - Friday, Mar 08, 2019 at 14:33

Friday, Mar 08, 2019 at 14:33
^^^^^^^
What he said!

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Follow Up By: Alloy c/t - Friday, Mar 08, 2019 at 16:22

Friday, Mar 08, 2019 at 16:22
Absolutely brilliant ....
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Follow Up By: ExplorOz Team - Michelle - Friday, Mar 08, 2019 at 19:12

Friday, Mar 08, 2019 at 19:12
That is so good, I've reposted it using the button at the bottom of the reply box for adding videos so that you can play it within the forum without having to click the link. I think the reason it is so good is that it addresses the issue with humour

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Reply By: Guy G - Saturday, Mar 09, 2019 at 13:11

Saturday, Mar 09, 2019 at 13:11
As KB Wilson is reputedly (in his book) to have once said:
I reject people who haven't got one, telling me how to live my life.
AnswerID: 624330

Reply By: Siringo - Wednesday, Mar 13, 2019 at 13:17

Wednesday, Mar 13, 2019 at 13:17
I think it's like road rage. IMO it's a shortfall in an individuals personality that doesn't allow them to insert a short burst of time that will give them an opportunity to think before they act or react.

It seems to get worse each year.
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Reply By: AlexVK2 - Monday, Mar 18, 2019 at 10:57

Monday, Mar 18, 2019 at 10:57
Agree with all your sentiments and I find your use of "humerus" particularly humerous!
??
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Follow Up By: Shaker - Monday, Mar 18, 2019 at 11:22

Monday, Mar 18, 2019 at 11:22
I also find it humorous!

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Follow Up By: Michael H9 - Tuesday, Mar 19, 2019 at 07:46

Tuesday, Mar 19, 2019 at 07:46
My mate at school was Hugh Morris....
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