70 series Landcruiser Rear Wheel Track

Submitted: Wednesday, Aug 21, 2019 at 21:59
ThreadID: 138972 Views:2760 Replies:12 FollowUps:24
l had a 70 series ute at work today and the owner had cured the narrow rear wheel track by fitting sunrasia rims all round with the rear rims having a bigger off set than the front. This then made front and rear track the same and cured the tracking problem.
This is an easy fix and throught 70 series owners might be interested in it. Not sure how many spares he had ,

Murray
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Reply By: Batt's - Thursday, Aug 22, 2019 at 00:14

Thursday, Aug 22, 2019 at 00:14
It's not a cure if you create other problems by not being able to rotate the tyres so they wear evenly and having to replace them more often.
AnswerID: 627373

Follow Up By: RMD - Thursday, Aug 22, 2019 at 08:08

Thursday, Aug 22, 2019 at 08:08
It also isn't a cure for the track, if the now quite large offset of rear rims are stressing the wheel studs to extinction. When the wheel comes off, which is does happen on the 5 studs design, it causes a problem.
The application and degree of forces taken through the wheel studs has therefore been significantly altered.
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FollowupID: 901346

Follow Up By: Gronk - Thursday, Aug 22, 2019 at 18:29

Thursday, Aug 22, 2019 at 18:29
The original wheels are held on by the centre spigot and the nuts just keep them there.
If aftermarket wheels are used, then they need to have the correct size centre on them.
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Follow Up By: tim_c - Friday, Aug 23, 2019 at 09:44

Friday, Aug 23, 2019 at 09:44
And the imbalanced load on your wheel bearings - the factory set-up is designed to evenly load the inner and outer wheel bearings, if you change the offset you transfer some of load from one bearing to the other bearing.
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Follow Up By: Member - PhilD_NT - Friday, Aug 23, 2019 at 22:00

Friday, Aug 23, 2019 at 22:00
tim-c, I can see that working for 0 offset rims like on my van, but how does it work out for my factory Ranger ones that are +55
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Follow Up By: AlbyNSW - Saturday, Aug 24, 2019 at 07:01

Saturday, Aug 24, 2019 at 07:01
I am with you PhilD, there are a lot of vehicles that are not zero offset OEM so not convinced on the loading the bearing argument
Do the vehicles with big offsets standard from factory have heavier duty bearings than those with zero offset?
I am not aware of it
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FollowupID: 901380

Reply By: OzzieCruiser - Thursday, Aug 22, 2019 at 09:11

Thursday, Aug 22, 2019 at 09:11
Is the difference in the track an issue in the first place - all owners I have spoken too seem to think it is not an issue in real life, but the arm chair warriors who have never owned one seem to think there is an issue.
AnswerID: 627374

Follow Up By: Gramps - Thursday, Aug 22, 2019 at 10:13

Thursday, Aug 22, 2019 at 10:13
I haven't experienced any issues so far.

Regards
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FollowupID: 901347

Follow Up By: rumpig - Thursday, Aug 22, 2019 at 11:24

Thursday, Aug 22, 2019 at 11:24
I didn’t think it was a big issue running the O.E tyres and used to post as such on forums, it was noticeable but not end of world stuff...going bigger in tyre size has massively exaggerated the effect though. My 79 is a pig of a thing to drive in soft sand now to the point it’s not fun beach driving these days, and on The Plenty Highway last year I also noticed the rear being more squirmy then it should be.
There’s quite a few options out there these days to correct the issue, Tru Tracker, Buds Customs, JMACX, DWIZ, just to name a few. All going well my new rear diff housing and axles should be arriving at the work shop today, and hopefully will be fitted in the near future and problem solved
1
FollowupID: 901348

Follow Up By: Ron N - Thursday, Aug 22, 2019 at 12:23

Thursday, Aug 22, 2019 at 12:23
There's no issue with the difference in wheel track - until you load the Landcruisers up with high centre of gravity loads, maximum loads, and loads centred totally on the rear axle, or slightly behind it.

In those cases, your Landcruiser becomes the vehicle from Hell as regards rapid switch from understeer to oversteer - the problem that VW Beetles have, that saw many thousands of VeeDubs rolled - much to the shock of their owners, who never saw the sudden switch coming.

A mate told me how he was riding in a 78 series Troopy, fully loaded with 5 blokes and all their camping gear - and they went arse-up within 5 minutes of running into rain on a stretch of unsealed road, which turned the road surface greasy.

They righted the Cruiser, and continued on - slowly - up the road, and came across another 78 series Troopy on its roof! - caused by the exact same circumstances.

There's a story on one of the forums, where a young bloke relates carrying an 800 litre spray tank on the back of a traytop V8 79 series, and he reckoned it was the 4WD from Hell, as regards handling. It was all over the road. It was his bosses, and he ended up not wanting to drive it.

But the 800L tank was located with about 20 cms of clearance to the headboard of the tray, probably making the load centred behind the rear axle.

His boss changed the tank setup, for other reasons, and moved the tank forward until it was hard up against the headboard, and the handling problems disappeared.

My nephew is running 7 x 79 series V8 traytops as heavy fitters vehicles. They are all running on the Toyota alloy rims.
They are loaded to the max with lockers, tools, parts, etc - and he's lost one, a complete write-off, via an "unexplained" rollover on a wet road - and two more have lost back wheels, when wheel studs sheared off at speed.

The rollover was an expensive one for the insurance company, these rigs cost him $109,000 each on the road, with all the barwork, lights, toolboxes and extras galore - and the rollover vehicle was under 12 mths old, and the nephew called in the insurance company on their "total replacement for a write-off under 12 mths old" - and they had to pay up the full $109,000 for a complete new vehicle as specced.

You have to ask yourself why numerous companies are making a "nice lil' earner" out of regularly producing 95mm wider rear axles or spindle extensions, for these vehicles, which can become unstable very rapidly, under the right conditions.

Cheers, Ron.

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FollowupID: 901350

Follow Up By: RMD - Thursday, Aug 22, 2019 at 13:59

Thursday, Aug 22, 2019 at 13:59
Ron
Your post above here may cause OzzieCruiser to not doubt his so called "armchair warriors" quite so much. I have seen 70 series cornering on a wet road and it was quite interesting try and work out which way the headlights would point next. Upping the power steer pump speed might help in correcting and control as 79's spin faster than the driver can get the wheels to point in the right direction.
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FollowupID: 901352

Follow Up By: axle - Thursday, Aug 22, 2019 at 15:47

Thursday, Aug 22, 2019 at 15:47
RMD,...On a wet road cornering, most utes will break loose if you drive in a silly manner!

Depends on what Tyres, load, and a host of other things that can contribute to what will make it get out of control


Plenty of idiots around!

Cheers Axle


2
FollowupID: 901356

Follow Up By: rumpig - Thursday, Aug 22, 2019 at 18:44

Thursday, Aug 22, 2019 at 18:44
I must just be imagining it then Ron...my cruiser is far from being loaded up, it also had the tray shortened and all weight moved as far forward as possible (ie: no spare tyres hanging off the back of it like others do). Having owned this vehicle for 4 years now and driven it on plenty of outback roads and coastal beaches, I reckon i have a pretty good idea what they are actually like to drive.
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FollowupID: 901360

Follow Up By: Baz - The Landy - Friday, Aug 23, 2019 at 08:35

Friday, Aug 23, 2019 at 08:35
I've had the Tru-Tracker modification on my 79 Series for about 5 years and it has improved the handling of the vehicle, especially in sand. Noting, our vehicle weighs in around the 3,400kg/3,500kg mark.

That is my experience from the driving seat!

Anyone looking to do a correction on the vehicle should look closely at tried and tested methods that don't compromise other components of the vehicle.

And worth highlighting that widening by any more than 50mm (25mm either side) using spacers or offset rims is illegal. At least, that is my understanding (happy to stand corrected!)

Cheers, Baz - The Landy
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Follow Up By: Blown4by - Wednesday, Sep 04, 2019 at 22:53

Wednesday, Sep 04, 2019 at 22:53
Its illegal to use any spacers at all.
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FollowupID: 901653

Reply By: Batt's - Thursday, Aug 22, 2019 at 10:29

Thursday, Aug 22, 2019 at 10:29
Snake Racing sell a spacer kit to suit which is a more practical solution and apparently legal. I would also put thread lock on the inner wheel nuts so you don't have to worry about them coming loose.
https://shop.snakeracing.com.au/v8-landcruiser-2-wide-track-wheel-spacer-kit/
AnswerID: 627375

Follow Up By: Tomdej - Thursday, Aug 22, 2019 at 14:29

Thursday, Aug 22, 2019 at 14:29
My reading of the road regulations indicates spacers are not legal. You may want to check carefully before fitting as not only could you get booked but your insurance could be void when it comes time to claim.
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FollowupID: 901354

Follow Up By: Member - ACD 1 - Thursday, Aug 22, 2019 at 15:42

Thursday, Aug 22, 2019 at 15:42
It would seem that Snake Racing dont even have a clue about the legalities of their product
VKS 3539
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Follow Up By: Batt's - Thursday, Aug 22, 2019 at 18:13

Thursday, Aug 22, 2019 at 18:13
Strange why Snake Racing have a video that claims spacers are legal wonder if they checked with each state before they went into production ?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_OzPk-jXCR8
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FollowupID: 901358

Follow Up By: Member - ACD 1 - Friday, Aug 23, 2019 at 22:06

Friday, Aug 23, 2019 at 22:06
Unfortunately Batt's, the 4WD market (no actually the entire automotive industry) is full of opportunistic marketers selling accessories and modifications for vehicles that aren't legal for road use.

Doesn't stop them advertising and selling them to ill informed or ignorant consumers.

Problem is, they aren't the ones to get the fines or defect notices and the associated costs for rectification.

Snake Racings final comment above illustrates the general attitude of the less scrupulous suppliers.

"If your trucks already illegal fitting spacers will make no difference"

Cheers

Anthony
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Follow Up By: AlbyNSW - Saturday, Aug 24, 2019 at 06:55

Saturday, Aug 24, 2019 at 06:55
Spacers are not 100% illegal as such, Porsche for example sell them as OEM and standard on some of their vehicles

But in general as an aftermarket modification not so much.
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FollowupID: 901379

Follow Up By: Blown4by - Wednesday, Sep 04, 2019 at 23:07

Wednesday, Sep 04, 2019 at 23:07
Snake Racing are talking a lot of horse doo doo. VSB14 is a Federal document and all States are signatories to it.
From VSB14 Section LS Clause 4.2.2 Wheel Attachment: "Wheel spacers (or adaptors for dual wheel conversions) between the wheel mounting face and the road wheel must not be used unless fitted as original equipment by the vehicle manufacturer."
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FollowupID: 901655

Reply By: GerryG - Thursday, Aug 22, 2019 at 20:26

Thursday, Aug 22, 2019 at 20:26
Many years ago some one lent me a small book on suspensions etc. In it was a formula for working out how much offset one can go without loading up the wheel bearings, stub axel and wheel nuts too much.
Needless to say, I've lost it. I've asked around over the years if anyone knows the formula without success.
Does anyone out there know what the formula is? It was handy when changing rear dual wheels over to singles, with the idea of trying to get the wheels to track behind the front ones.
In my experience with a working life of driving 4wd bus's and trucks, as long as the rear wheels track overlapped at least half/two thirds the front wheels track, then that was good enough for sand driving.
AnswerID: 627384

Follow Up By: RMD - Friday, Aug 23, 2019 at 07:51

Friday, Aug 23, 2019 at 07:51
Gerry
I don't know about the book but I can't see how it could specify offsets etc while not stressing vehicle components too much.
Exactly what is too much? How is that defined?
Some vehicles have stronger axles/axle flanges , wheel studs and axle housings than others, so to be able to specify a degree of modification as ok, is pie in the sky sort of stuff.
In addition to the vehicle parts, the bearings of different manufacturers are vastly different in life and load ability, although same size. That wider offset may be ok with one spec bearing but destroy the wheel bearing of another brand in a short time, often resulting in no wheel on vehicle. That is not good for handling or control.
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FollowupID: 901368

Follow Up By: GerryG - Friday, Aug 23, 2019 at 20:52

Friday, Aug 23, 2019 at 20:52
RMD,
I hear what you're saying but everything engineered has a tolerance of some sort. A lot of vehicles, especially 4wds, have played some part in "exploring" such tolerances.
The formula I saw did seem to concentrate on bearing stress and it has been the only "guide" I've seen.
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FollowupID: 901375

Reply By: Baz - The Landy - Friday, Aug 23, 2019 at 08:52

Friday, Aug 23, 2019 at 08:52
My understanding is that widening by any more than 50mm (25mm either side) using spacers or offset rims is illegal, happy to stand corrected if that is incorrect.

I have had the Tru-Tracker fully engineered modification on my 79 Series for the past 5 years and it has improved the handling of the vehicle, without doubt.

Cheers, Baz - The Landy
AnswerID: 627387

Follow Up By: Batt's - Saturday, Aug 24, 2019 at 10:39

Saturday, Aug 24, 2019 at 10:39
Personally I wouldn't be impressed with Toyota if I spent big dollars on a 4wd that still needs further modifications which cost over $3,000 to fix the handling and tracking issues they created. Makes me wonder how they could stuff it up surely they have been making and testing vehicles for long enough to know what works and what doesn't.
1
FollowupID: 901383

Reply By: Member - Murray R (VIC) - Friday, Aug 23, 2019 at 10:24

Friday, Aug 23, 2019 at 10:24
There is always some side affect from non OE modifications and what is legal and not legal, spacers, offset rims etc. Some people complain about handling problems and others don't. l think it comes down to what you want to do with your vehicle and what mods are needed to suit your driving style and load requirements
The best solution to the rear tracking seems to be the Tru Track system which some of the replys are using.
Thanks for youp opinions
Murray
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AnswerID: 627391

Reply By: Bob Y. - Qld - Friday, Aug 23, 2019 at 14:29

Friday, Aug 23, 2019 at 14:29
My 2015 single cab has done just over 86K kms, with no modifications to rear track. The only times I’ve noticed any tracking problems has been on loose “ball bearing” type gravel, and last year, when we drove down the beach from Wyllie Scarp to Israelite Bay WA. Was following 3 other vehicles, a 105 Cruiser, a PK Ranger & a Prado, and the rear tyres couldn’t decide which one wanted to stay in the 150mm deep tracks.

No doubt a track correction upgrade would improve handling in ALL terrain, but for most of us it’s not needed. I say that after numerous Simpson/Madigan crossings, travel in the WA deserts including a Canning trip over past 5 weeks.

Different offset wheels, or spacers, will increase damage to brake calipers/backing plates on stoney, gravel roads, as well as exacerbate rear brake pad wear, which is already a problem on muddy roads.

Bob

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AnswerID: 627396

Follow Up By: Batt's - Saturday, Aug 24, 2019 at 13:13

Saturday, Aug 24, 2019 at 13:13
Are the backing plates exposed after fitting spacers have you seen damage caused to backing plates as a result from installing wheel spacers that could be a danger or safety issue to the vehicle ? On my GQ without spacers the calliper backing plates on the front sits 30mm inside the inner lips of the rims and the rear are10mm inside the inner lips of the rims so the rear have less protection but are still fine after 26yrs.

How much extra brake pad wear is caused by these spacers and how does it occur and how much are we talking about ? Generally if you do go off road a fair amount you will usually notice brake pads discs and drums wear out faster.
1
FollowupID: 901384

Follow Up By: Bob Y. - Qld - Tuesday, Aug 27, 2019 at 09:02

Tuesday, Aug 27, 2019 at 09:02
Seen stone damage to rear backing plates on a chopped 105 series wagon, without spacers, and using standard rims. Wagon did a lot of off road & gravel road use.

Have seen Landcruisers wear out rear disc pads excessively when used on coarse or gravelly roads during rain, and the calipers aren’t hosed out before further use. Spacers are likely to accelerate the likelihood of this happening, with the calipers & disc being further exposed.

Bob

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Reply By: Member - McLaren3030 - Saturday, Aug 24, 2019 at 11:58

Saturday, Aug 24, 2019 at 11:58
Hi Murray R,

I had a 76 Series for 6 years, plenty of gravel road driving, including a Simpson Desert crossing. The only time I really noticed any problem with the offset rear wheel track was in sand of mud. The rear end kept trying to climb in & out of the wheel tracks. If you are not going to be doing a lot of sand or mud driving, I don't think the vehicle needs any mods to the rear end. If however if you decide to realign the rear wheel track to coincide with the front, the only way to go IMHO is as Baz has suggested, with a purpose built axle replacement. Anything else is a compromise, may not be legal in all states, and may void your insurance.

Macca.
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Reply By: Sir Kev - Saturday, Aug 24, 2019 at 12:15

Saturday, Aug 24, 2019 at 12:15
Doesn't the Patrol Cab Chassis DX have a front coil and rear leaf spring set up that is also 100mm different?? 1940mm Front and 1840mm rear?
Where is the complaints about that setup.

Cheers Kev
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AnswerID: 627403

Reply By: Member - abqaiq - Sunday, Sep 29, 2019 at 14:02

Sunday, Sep 29, 2019 at 14:02
Peter St. P White did a video this issue, comes down to the owner and $$$$ available.
AnswerID: 627916

Reply By: rumpig - Monday, Sep 30, 2019 at 20:23

Monday, Sep 30, 2019 at 20:23
Just spent 10 days on Fraser Island after getting track correction done on my 79 a few weeks before leaving, a much nicer vehicle to drive in soft sand now that's for sure.
AnswerID: 627947

Reply By: Bev - Tuesday, Oct 15, 2019 at 18:02

Tuesday, Oct 15, 2019 at 18:02
Multidrive at Geelong is the way to go They replaced the diff in our 76 series put a stronger longer one on plus other stuff .The track was so much better particularly in sand and when towing Plan on doing again if we get another 70 series
AnswerID: 628172

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