New Land Rover Defender reveals tomorrow

That Defender is hardly the concept of the previous vehicles which were not the same as the poser variants of yesteryear.

Interesting that a Land Rover Discovery 4 gets a 4.4 out of 5 against a Prado of the same age getting a 3.7 on productreview.com.au. Land Rover have built their most reliable cars in the past 10 years, and Toyota have built their least reliable cars in the same time frame.

Yes they have, but it’s hard to overcome deep seated prejudice!

Bit of a silly remark Ron. I have had Falcons and currently own an xf Jag. Yes, we know about the Ford aspect but they are a vastly different car. Superb and widely acclaimed as such. Give your head a wobble instead of making cheap, glib and cliched remarks.

Stevemac - Ahh, yes, that'd be the XF Jaguar the U.K. Police have ceased buying, because of their poor reliability.

But I guess if you swap them out every 20,000kms, as so many Jag owners do, you would tend to think they're a wonderful product.

Pistonheads - XF Jag problems

I just read that link and they seem fairly reliable!

Got to laugh Ron. Maybe the Series 1 was a knock off of the original Jeep, but since then the whole world has copied Land Rover.

The only European “SUV” to go close in comparison with the new Defender is the G Wagen, and I wouldn’t mind one of those in my shed! I wonder which European “SUV”s you had in mind?

Sadly, at 65, I am unlikely to add a new car to my current fleet, but I’d get one of these in heartbeat if I could. The only other serious off road vehicles in this price range are the Raptor and the Rubicon, neither of which appeal.

You’ve obviously spent a lot of time bagging this vehicle, sight unseen. Thanks for your helpful input.

Yes they have a range of 6 different motors available

Also a 800 kg payload and 3.7 ton towing.

Landrovers don't " break down" Ron. They fail to proceed.
Dave.

Hi Ron.

Its the same with all of it now!, Trucks, Earthmoving gear, cars, even motor bikes,lol.

I remember Hitachi excavators where one of the first to come out with computers and a very complex system for the hydraulics, What a nightmare! bloody things were likely to take off on their own.

But as the years have gone by they all seem to have a reliable system these days,
so I guess it will be the same trend with everything,. Its just the frustration and on going cost you have to put up with until the company of whatever gets it right.

Cheers Axle.

The Slovakian's might get upset at you calling them Slovenian. With respect, I think you are painting an undeservedly poor picture of the Slovakian motor industry. It's their main industry, and they've been the world's highest per capita car maker since 2007. I don't think you can say they are unskilled as they produce some of the most complex cars in the world. How much you are paid is purely determined by your local economy, 8 euros an hour might be excellent pay in Slovakia, and 24 euros an hour in Germany might be minimum wage. Just because they are both in euros means nothing, it's how much your euro buys in your country that counts. In fact minimum wage in Germany is around 1500 euros per month, while in Slovakia it's around 500 euros a month, about a third of Germany. Therefore, the wages are pretty comparative at around 1/3 of the amount. It's misleading to assume a country with low wage rates is populated by stupid incompetent people. The car makers know this and set up factories there to take advantage of skills and overheads at a lower cost. VW, PSA, KIA and LR all have manufacturing plants in Slovakia.

With respect to new Land Rovers not being bush ready, I have several first hand experiences that contradict that. It's very true that a Disco with 19"rims is going to struggle badly out there, no doubt about it, and the majority made are driving around with that spec. However, 10 years ago I bought a Freelander 2 soft roader as a travel car because my wife liked it. I also had a "proper" 4wd as my car. Anyway, the Freelander 2 with no low range but with the LR traction control system exceeded my wildest expectations. I ended up taking it almost everywhere, all the iconic tracks and deserts. It was the best car I've ever had over corrugations, a real credit to the designers. I traded it after 10 years and over 300,000 kms and it still didn't have any leaks, squeaks or rattles. The car had 17" rims and 32" tyres and that's all it needed. Now you might say it was a fluke, but I met a mate on the LR forums and we started sharing stories and trips. He had a Freelander 2 and was doing the same tracks for the same result as I was. He even got to Cape York solo and Bilbunya Dunes solo from Sydney, two places I didn't have time to go to. When two cars doing punishing tracks over multiple years and clocking up 100's of thousands of kilometres do so and leave their owners smiling then you can't ask for much more out of a car. Even with me hammering the crap out a "soft" car, my wife still thought it was the best ride she's experienced and wanted me to buy another one.
There was only one time the electrics partially let me down. On the Warburton Crossing track into the Simpson, it started raining and the mud started sticking to the wheel arches, filling them up and bulging inside the wheel. The wheels stopped rotating due to the friction and solidifying mud. I had to chip the mud out by hand and accidently cut the ABS wire on one of the wheels. The car's dash lit up with all sorts of errors and special traction programs or cruise control no longer worked. However, it still had 4WD and drove me back over 2000 kms to Sydney.
I suppose I set the car up to succeed in rough country from experience. City drivers in LR's thinking they can go anywhere have no idea and get stuck all over the place. The trouble is that the cars are really good stock standard and give off a false sense of ability and when the going gets really hairy the drivers don't know what to do.
I'd be very happy to take a new Defender provided it's not city spec with 20" rims. The wheel sizes are around 32-33" standard so that's a good start, but you need rubber on them. Then there's the price.....that will probably get rid of me too. :-)

Geez Ron, every time a new model of vehicle comes out, unless it is a Dmax or Toyota you foresee problems with quality, performance, cheapness, breakdowns and reliability.

Maybe wait just a little while before bagging them. Just a thought.

Michael - Yes, my apologies for the brain fart. Meant to put "Slovakian", but my fingers typed "Slovenian".

But my analysis still stands, PWC have an article on LinkedIn, that outlines 3 major deficiencies in manufacturing in Slovakia - and the primary deficiency identified is "low workforce productivity and inefficient utilisation of capacities".

PWC - Slovak manufacturing problems

There is one major reason for manufacturers selecting Slovakia for manufacturing (besides its low-cost labour), and that is, Slovakia is dead-central in the European land mass, making transport costs even out across Europe, and Eastern Europe in particular.

But this location also leads to increased export costs, thus making one wonder if exports of the new Defender are not planned to make up any sizeable volume of sales.

Cheers, Ron.

And another Richard Hammond Defender Video

There's a more extensive report on the CarSales webpage below.

New Landrover Defender revealed

It still looks like a vehicle catering to the European market to me. It's interesting to see the, "up to" 3720kg towing capacity rating.

I'll wager that towing rating comes with a lot of qualifying requirements, such as speed restrictions, temperature restrictions, vehicle loading restrictions, and other parameters needing to be met.

The 900mm fording depth is also rather interesting. That's a whole lot more than any other equivalent 4WD, and could probably also require a number of conditions to be met before that depth is allowed.

In water that's 900mm deep, you stand to have a vehicle that starts to float, and if there's strong current as well, you're in deep doo-doo quickly.

I speak as someone with military engineering skills that involve deep water crossings with military vehicles, including floating 6x6 trucks on pontoons across big rivers.

One can only trust the designers of this new Defender have done their homework as regards protection of wiring harnesses, harness connectors, electronic components, and they are all extremely waterproof, protected against corrosive dust and moisture, and all mounted high up.

One has bad memories of Landrover/Range Rover electronic components mounted in low areas where they immediately became immersed in water and "failed to proceed".

168 kgs dynamic loading for the roof area is quite surprising, but 168kgs sitting on the roof of an already high vehicle, is going to do nothing for vehicle stability at highway speeds.

The claims for the aluminium body strength are quite startling - up to 3 times stronger, according to the chief designer. The downside of aluminium is if a steel component cracks, any outback mechanic can weld it on the spot. Not so with high-tech aluminium, which may be an exotic alloy that is difficult to repair.

Some of the new aluminium alloys are just amazing as to what is included in the mix - iron, copper, nickel, and other metals that we always believed to be anathema to any aluminium alloy.

The amount of magnesium in the new Defender is a worry, particularly if you've seen and understand how magnesium burns. They don't use magnesium for brilliant-burning flares for nothing.

All in all, many interesting claims for the new Defender, but it will be even more interesting to see if this vehicle can start to provide real competition to the other large 4WD's that are purchased mainly for towing big 'vans.

Cheers, Ron.

Rangers are 800mm wading depth. Add in the 100mm extra the air suspension nets you and bob's your aunty?
I recall patrol and 105 series cruiser rear ends floating in not a lot of water during our off road driver training sessions in the 90's. The utes always went better because they were more efficient at sinking haha. That floaty rear end feeling was never great.

Interesting, I heard that the ball weight on the website is only 150kg. They'd have to do something about that in Australia.

As it is for the D3/D4 and RRS - that is UK spec not Aust spec noting that the UK spec tow bar is not even legal in Aust - hence why the Aust D3/D4 and RRS have different towbars to the UK spec bars.

When the new Defender is released in Aust, like the other models they will just use the UK handbook with an Aust supplement that will list our specs.

Discovery 5 has 900mm wading depth.
Many vehicles (and motorcycles) have had parts (including engines) made from magnesium for over 70 years, without fire problems.
The theory of fire risk is an unfounded furphy :)

"The theory of fire risk is an unfounded furphy"

Well, that's a statement that is just plain wrong - particularly if you're a firefighter, and even more particularly if you're not educated to the inherent risk of a Magnesium fire, and you throw water on it, trying to extinguish it.

The danger of Magnesium fires in vehicles

Cheers, Ron.

Pure cast magnesium as in the first "mag" wheels are a definite fire risk but these are not made any more. When they say things are made from magnesium these days it will normally/most likely refer to a aluminum/magnesium alloy that does not have a fire risk.

I doubt that there is anything in the new Defender that is pure magnesium but I am sure Ron will search the internet thoroughly to find anywhere I might have made a slight error.

Yes, I’m well aware of magnesium’s flammability, as I’m sure was Volkswagen with its air cooled (magnesium-crankcased) engines, as well as most Japanese motorcycle manufacturers did when they produced engines with magnesium componentry over the decades.

Magnesium is used in many automotive applications - quite safely.
Magnesium use in the auto industry

The reality is that it’s extremely unlikely that a vehicle containing magnesium components will suffer a magnesium fire. By the time it does, you will have far more things to worry about than that.

Were they in stock? :-)

No. He had to wait 8 weeks. Ex factory in japan

But.. but... they’re so reliable and in any case, there’s a dealership in every town brimming with parts that never have waiting lists as long as your arm whilst they wait for the Japs to send their dated bits and pieces over here after scavenging around more advanced countries for their discarded old Jap relics.

I don’t know what I will buy when I decide the 2009 prado 150 needs to be upgraded

The mux Isuzu seems to get good reviews but then only has small fuel tank

Should have kept the 105 cruiser. So simple but then so was my 109 series 3 Land Rover

Amazingly for my 2003 f250 I can get parts delivered in a day or two pretty well any where around Australia.
And a lot of the parts are new at that.
I'm surprised to read these days how many parts take weeks to come from overseas.

I had a similar experience with a Kia 4x4 light truck I had. All parts were in Sydney and overnight air freighted to anywhere. Dealers kept consumables. The system worked. It was also the cheapest parts department I have ever dealt with.

Same as the ftruck, 90 bucks for a new wiper motor.

What make of Van do you have with 730kg tare & ensuite? Thanks

1 88 litre tank - bit small? - any options from the factory?? forgive me if it's in there and l missed it. This car is meant to be a serious touring rig - surely.........
Maybe there's something l'm missing. My disco 3 has the long ranger tank, love it - get fuel from a truck depot and off you go..180 odd litres.

Maybe they are thinking solar panels and electric power in the future and no bowers in 10 years i guess- who knows..

But Landrovers dont need the big standard tanks of the 200 series - useful range is about the same but the 200 series needs around 135litres and the LR 88 litres.

Sure extra tanks come in handy but that applies equally to the 200 series.

Frank - Hmmm, 5 interesting things alright. I reckon there will be about 50 new interesting things on the new Land Rover and a lot of the discussion will be about the reliability of those 50 new interesting things.

1. IP67 rated harness connectors, eh? - rated to 1 hr submersion in fresh water. But how often do people drive through salty or brackish water? Does salty or brackish water invalidate the IP67 rating for the connectors??

2. They failed to mention the 85 ECU's - yes, that's right, 85 ECU's, in the new Land Rover. I can see the auto sparkies clinking the champagne glasses already.

3. I can't see an 88 litre fuel tank being much use, when towing a decent sized van, particularly in outback areas of Australia.

4. The battery is under the drivers seat?? 1940's Chevy's had the battery tray mounted in the passenger side floor.
It was a curse of a position, prone to damage from things hitting the underside.
I've even had a battery fall through the floor mount tray of an old Chevy, and land on the track! It sure stopped the old Chev in a hurry!

5. Are Land Rover going to be game enough to provide real street cred, and offer up a proper commercial Land Rover version? - a traytop? I can't see it happening from here.

Cheers, Ron.