Holden brand to disappear in 2020 - GM will no longer build any RHD

RMD - I think Holden produced worse vehicles than the Vauxhall Viva.

In recent times, the Cruze and Trax have been less than inspiring, the Acadia is selling like a lead balloon, the Commodores from the early 2000's went through about 3 different motors, none of which were any good.

The earlier Commodores were pretty rubbishy, the 3.8L motor was the only good part of them.
Any of the Opel products adapted to Australia were a disaster - even the Germans wouldn't buy Opel.

The first Commodores were a total flop, the wrong size for the time, and needed major re-engineering to stop them breaking apart.
Ford laughed all the way to the bank, when Falcon sales soared in the 1980's.

The Rodeo and Colorado must have been the only bright lights in the tunnel for GM and Holden.
But the story of those two vehicles is a gradual slide into the, "also-ran" division.

The early Rodeos were brilliant, but only because they were a re-badged Isuzu. The Colorado has been on a slide since the 2.8L VM engine model appeared.
They sound like a bucket of bolts, and the late-model Colorados are everywhere in the used vehicle yards.

And who can remember the horrible 4 cyl Starfire engine? A 202 with 2 cyls lopped off. It wasn't nicknamed the "Backfire" and "Misfire" for nothing!

The best Holdens ever produced were the HQ to WB - even if the 202 was a distinctly substandard motor as compared to Ford engines of the time.
The 253 and 308 were reasonably good, provided you watched your coolant condition, and didn't let those horrible alloy manifolds rot out.

The Bedford truck line lost its way around the late 1970's, with a pathetic effort jamming Holden petrol engines into trucks, with 4 speed gearboxes, when the Jap trucks were producing diesels with 5 speed boxes - AND tilt cabs!

All in all, the story of GM is constant mismanagement, regularly producing poor-quality products that didn't match the consumers requirements.

In 1955, GM was the largest producer of good quality cars and trucks in the world (check out their 1955 Powerama display!) - but by 2009, they were totally bankrupt and had to be bailed out by the U.S. Govt.

If ever there was a display of total failure of the American Capitalism model, GM and Holden would fit the bill to a tee.
Bloated management, poor decision-making, even poorer worker-employer relationships, and a constant and steady decline into oblivion.

Someone needs to write a book about them, they are on a par with International Harvester - and a book has been written about the disaster that was IH, perfectly titled, "A Corporate Tragedy: The Agony of International Harvester Company".

Cheers, Ron.

"Bloated management, poor decision-making, even poorer worker-employer relationships, and a constant and steady decline into oblivion. "

You have just described how the land of Oz is run, Ron!

Overblown hyperbolic garbage isn't unexpected from your keyboard RMD but the above is a new low standard even for you.

Bazooka
I must be close to the mark to have stirred your emotions.

"the Greens want all industry production and mining stopped" What a load of rubbish.

Your logic is as sound as your politics RMD. The conservative playbook hasn't had a new idea for decades so I guess we can look forward to the old socialist/reds under the bed dribble next time?

Good to see the old Elisabeth Holden plant being used to make batteries for solar.

Elizabeth plant

Good to see mining companies looking to the future and not sticking their heads in the sand.

Haul truck link

Really good to see business leading the way.

Tony.
GM may have been only 1% of their market but the profit taken from Australia was far more in relative terms than what was expected by selling 1% here. When that wasn't enough they closed shop. GREED. If the product quality had been good and priced well the sales volumes would have kept others out of the market.

In the period from early 1931, when GM bought Holden Motor Body Works to form General Motors Holden, to the late 1970's, GM reaped massive sales and profits from their Holden investment.

The WW2 years brought substantial profits to GM as well, as the GMH production facilities were turned over to producing everything from guns to instruments.

But when GM approved the production of the 48-215 Holden, they could not keep up with demand for them.
This continued for around 12 years, until the Menzies Govts "credit squeeze" of 1960, which increased interest rates and sales tax levels on vehicles, to dampen inflation.

Holden still ruled the vehicle market until the late 1970's, when it started on its downward path, with lowered build quality, and failure to produce technological and mechanical advances, that the Japs and Europeans cheerfully provided in their models.

At one stage, nearly 30% of the Australian workforce was employed in some kind of manufacturing associated with the automotive and transport industry - and GMH was the biggest client.

Sadly, those times have passed, and now we are facing a completely different transport and automotive future, where manufacturing is largely automated, and done in other countries besides Australia.

Cheers, Ron.

Wont Roland Pain be pissed!!…...lol.

Funny you say that. I've never been a "Holden or Ford Guy", just not been impressed with any of the vehicles produced over the years. In terms of design (aesthetics, not engineering) however, I've always considered the HQ to be the best (only decent?) Holden, visually. Still drove like a boat, though... (yes, i owned one- for a VERY short time).

Cheers,
Mark

Many sheeple do follow Toyota. The discerning buyer prefers quality and value though.

I have had 9 different Toyotas, 10 counting a HJ61 for 25 years, Only problems was a cracked bypass hose on early Corona and the HJ61 cruiser blew a power steering belt after 17 years, no warranty on that though. No other problems. With my Holden ute, the lower suspension balljoints were really loose from new, they actually rattled. Ok for Oldhen to fit, passed their quality control though but were worse than worn out balljoints. The front gearbox bearing broke in half, and the dealer didn't even wash out the metal particles when reassembling. Diff pinion leaked and they fitted new seal and tightened the pinion bearings so they destroyed themselves after 16km. Had a Nissan once blown head gaskets for one, many faults from new like the Oldhen. Never again a GM or Nissan product. Learnt my lesson after just one of each. The faults in those vehicles were repaired by me and performed ok afterwards. Dealer repair abilities under warranty useless! No wonder people prefer a Toyota sometimes. Toyota do have some problems but for the volume of them on the road they are the most reliable. Overall far cheaper to own. My daughter/SIL, bought a Black Holden wagon and it has many problems , too complicated, it is as though they had a truckfull of technology bits and poured them inside. Madness. The servicing costs are horrendous compared to some other makes. Great news they are gone.

https://www.carsguide.com.au/car-advice/how-reliable-will-your-new-car-be-40818

Bigfish,

I am sure that there are a few Toyota’s that have problems just like any other manufacturer. However, from personal experience the many Toyota’s that I and other family members have owned since the 1980’s, have never let us down. From Hilux, 70 Series, 100 Series & now 200 Series, travelling through out the outback as well as city driving, they have always been reliable.

Out of curiosity, what does the discerning buyer buy?

Macca.

Maybe Bentley and Aston Martin etc will come over from the 12 Hour and open the field right up. :)
Dave.

Don't think many care about the Bathurst marathon though David. The "Supercars" battle still engenders great interest and is probably the best four wheeled motor race in the world (bias acknowledged. MotoGP is still my fav motor racing though). TV coverage has been groundbreaking and the commentary and amount of detailed info passed to viewers is still light years ahead of most other races I've watched over the years. The venue and its history plays a part obviously.

Watch MotoGP every week Bazooka but prefer the TT now that they've
put a camera on a riders head.
" That's A Man's Corner?? 322 Km/h 200 MPH" Jackie Stewart. :)
Dave.

The TT is nuts David. A test of man and machine but too many deaths for my liking.

Lol Rocco.Geelong still has Ford despite the factory closing. Somewhat ironically the factory site is now being used to build (assemble) wind turbines.

Go the Cats, Bazooka.

It’s ironic that after playing second fiddle to Holden for much of its history in Australia, Ford now has a vehicle that people actually want to buy, the Ranger, while Holden disappears over the horizon.

Not sure if Jack Steven can replace Kelly Rocco but if they can get a dozen good games from Jenkins the Cats will be thereabouts again, subject to no major injuries of course. Can't wait to see what Clark and Ratugolea bring with another year under the belt, and if Cockatoo makes it back.

Ireland decided they were going to plan their change over to driving on the right hand side of the road in stages. All the buses and trucks would change on one day, and when they got used to it, the cars would then be allowed to change over.

I can remember when the Swedes went over to LHD from RHD. Large numbers of Swedes already drove LHD cars, anyway, before the changeover.

It cost them a fortune, and it wasn't just confined to road signs and markings, either.

It made sense for them in Europe, where everyone else is LHD - but for Australia, it makes no sense, and it would impose a massive (and unnecessary) cost burden on us.

Cheers, Ron.

IIRC, the Swedes changed overnight by mobilising the Defence forces to assist. If Aus changed to LHD, it would open us up to 75% of the world's car market (all the LHD vehicles that are made).

There are still over 70 countries that drive on the left side of the road.

Sadly those 70 countries only account for 25% of the world's car market.

If I had 25% of a global market, I'd be quite happy. Nothing sad about that.

But in world population figures, 34% of the world drives on the left.
And those countries includes India, and a very large percentage of Africa, where some the worlds greatest population centres are.

Countries that drive on the left

It's rather ironic that America built and drove RHD cars until 1908, when Henry Ford dictated (by personal choice) that America should drive LHD cars.

The history of right or left driving has been littered with decisions more related to personal and sovereign country powers, than any other single reason.

Cheers, Ron.

World driving standards

Can’t agree with you swampy. The HQ Series was acknowledged by GMH as a bit of a lemon. Body panels did not line up, 202/3300 motor was underpowered for such a heavy vehicle. The following HJ Series was better built, lighter vehicle, with an improved engine.

Macca.

HQ... best looking Holden body, terrible engineering and build...

Cheers,
Mark

HI
HQ was a best seller . Much to the disbelief of GM execs .
The HQ body styling was done by a man with very good experience .
Now I have stripped and rebuilt many for personal use and when the 202 motor was for taxis . So was the HQ 202 a lemon Absolutely Not. They would do huge miles .
Suspension was effectively unchanged for 14 years
Rear suspension /driveline was used up until the 90`s. Many performance cars use this layout .
The transmission was the grand daddy TH400 /Th350 of many a late model .
The engine v8 was an excellent for the times but ended up being ignored by GM usa even thou it was 10yrs ahead of its parent company .
The steering was upgraded at least twice and its design is still used on some cars today

Hq body built to spec was good ,there are build sheets and specs . Depends on who they employed and how drug effected they were. Yes there are upgrades in HJ but so minor most donot no they exist .
EG Engine specs were tighter than most aftermarket can even build today . Regards panels when parts are new they fit better not when they are 40-50 yr old and from 4 different vehicles .

Keep believing your own lies it obviously works for u !!!

Outback Gazz
You have highlighted why companies can't make their level of profit with union and Aussie attitudes to work.

6300 by 10 days entitled sick leave a year ??
80 people of every day ??
What are they off for ? Compo, sick leave, annual leave.
Need to do the math.
Work to live don’t live to work.

RMD or should I call you The Sniper,

So far on this post you have blamed the Greens, unions and Australian workers.

Just to even things up a bit, here are a few unions that might have also been to blame..

Australian Aluminium Council
Australian Chamber of Commerce and Industry
Australian Federation of Employers and Industries (AFEI)
Australian Industry Group
Australian Uranium Association
Business Council of Australia
Business Software Association of Australia
Cotton Australia
Insulation Council of Australia and New Zealand
The Pharmacy Guild of Australia
Victorian Employers' Chamber of Commerce and Industry
Federal Chamber of Automotive Industry

I might add the united farmers federation and the AMA as well plus poisonous HR departments.

I see recently many workers being ripped off by large companies and those large companies have CEO's that get obscene remuneration.

From your side, we are sickie pulling lazy bastards, that must include you as well, as you are Australian.

This is a travel forum not a devisive political forum.

There's only a few crucial differences between American and Australian car manufacturing, and Japanese car manufacturing - but they are the factors that make all the difference to longevity and performance.

1. The Japanese attention to detail is world-renowned. These are the people who will set about ensuring reliability, by covering every possibility of potential problems in use.

If I buy a Japanese-built vehicle, it has every wiring harness connector carefully designed with seals to prevent ingress of mud, dust and moisture.

But buy an American or Australian-built vehicle, and it has the cheapest harness connector they can produce, with no interest in sealing the connector.
As a result, you get mud, dust and moisture, along with salt and other naturally-occurring chemicals in the soil, wreaking havoc in electrics and electronics with corrosion in harness connectors.

The Japanese will take care to ensure that harnesses are fully protected and secured every 100 or 150mm along their length.
American and Australian-built cars got wiring harnesses with little protection, and inadequate securing points, and draped like spaghetti through the vehicle.

Who can recall the HQ to HX models where the main wiring harness had a firewall connector bolted together, that wasn't sealed properly most of the time, and which was a source of electrical "glitches" when they were driven in adverse conditions (mud, deep water, dust)?
It took GMH years to get rid of the firewall harness connector, and make the harness one piece by the HZ models.

Who can remember when GM and GMH took years to produce high spark intensity distributors?
Previously, we had to put up with constant misfiring and spark tracking from poorly designed distributors, caps and wiring.
Japanese vehicles didn't have the problem, their ignition systems were carefully designed.

GMH designed oil breathers that were directly in line with distributor caps and leads.
When the engine got a little worn and started to produce oil fumes from the breather, these oily fumes would coat the distributor cap and leads, and lead to spark tracking and misfiring.

Who can remember the crap paint jobs on American and Australian-built vehicles?
Japanese paint jobs were always far superior in finish and durability.

Who can remember the poor panel fit of American and Australian-built vehicles? Japanese panels always fitted perfectly and evenly.

Assembly faults came as part of the deal with American and Australian-built vehicles. I bought a new HQ Holden in early 1972.
I picked it up in the morning, drove around Perth most of the day, then when I got home in the evening, it refused to start - because of a flat battery.

I took it back to the dealer, and they promptly found the problem - the integrated wire from the alternator to the battery had been left out of the wiring harness! The alternator had no way to charge the battery.
They had to replace that section of the harness with a new one. What great GMH QC!

2. The Japanese work ethic is world-renowned - so much so, the Japanese Govt had to pass laws preventing company employees from working themselves to death, by doing vast amounts of overtime.
Japanese company employees were working 18 hr days to ensure that the product was fault-free.

In Australia, the work ethic is all about how soon you can knock off, and bugger the companys requirements! A Thursday or Tuesday holiday always becomes a reason to have a 4 day holiday weekend.

3. The Japanese design durability into components. Engines last 50% longer (or more) in Japanese vehicles.
With the 50-odd Holdens I've owned, I was always struggling to get 200,000kms life out of a 6 cyl Holden engine.

In Japanese vehicles, switches, knobs, actuators and controls are designed to keep functioning correctly without breaking for 25-30 years or 400 to 500,000kms.

But buy an American or Australian-built vehicle and it was pretty well guaranteed, you'd be replacing switches, knobs, actuators and controls within 120-150,000 kms, and often as low as 18mths or 2 years after you bought the vehicle.

Who can remember GMH producing plastic distributor drive gears, that replaced the former metal ones?
Within a short time, there were sheared distributor drive gears everywhere, and owners were looking for the metal ones as replacements.

The simple fact is, that Japanese vehicle manufacturers provide the vehicles the buyers want, and the build quality, that buyers want.

This is the reason that Toyota is the richest vehicle manufacturer in the world, with $50B in cash in the bank - and GM went bankrupt, and is still teetering on the edge of bankrupcty.

But Toyota made a serious mis-step in the early 2000's, when some American thinking invaded the company management.
They set about becoming the worlds biggest vehicle manufacturer (as regards total production numbers), to topple GM.
But their "vision" of becoming the worlds largest manufacturer was clouded when they failed to address the need for more engineers - and as a result, there was major failure in keeping up QC, in the drive for bigger production numbers.

As a result, the famous Toyota quality was seriously eroded by 2010, and it took several more years before they realised they had made a major error in ignoring QC failures, and set about correcting the problem.
Toyota had to appoint another 900 new engineers, and bring back retired employees to recover their old "attention to QC".

There is little chance that GM or any American manufacturer will ever get near Japanese brand vehicle quality, because of the lack of attention to design and build quality.

This is very evident in the fact that the Japanese have built factories in America and Thailand and even China, that produce Japanese-brand vehicles, that have equivalent build quality, to vehicles built in Japan.

Cheers, Ron.

Ron, just a couple of things. One thing I find is if the Japs make a mistake they don't like admitting it (save face and all that goes with it)
On the electrical connectors I don't like them too sealed up because if they get water in them, that is often where it stays and doesn't dry out causing problems.

On Toyota and Holden quality in the mainstream market. I had a VC commodore wagon with a 173 motor and 4 speed opal box. Had it for 17 years and in that time it gave no trouble at all except the 2 barrel quadrajet carb was a bugger to tune, but once tuned it was very, very good. Sold it with 380000K on the clock for the same amount I paid for it. It was just getting to the stage of costing money due to the usual alternator, brakes and clutch used by dates.

On the other hand I had a 92 2.2l Camry for 16 years. This also was a very reliable car but it also had the same problems as the same era Holdens and Fords with the hood lining falling down after 10 years and developing a bad oil leak at the rear of the motor which would have required the engine to come out to fix.

Eagle - The Camry oil leak is never at the back of the motor - even though it appears to be.

The Camrys always develop a leak at the oil pump, which is mounted on the front of the engine block.

The oil leaks from the pump, travels along the sump line, then drips off the back of the engine block, making it look like a rear engine seal has gone. Worse, it drips onto the exhaust, and burns, and stinks!

The oil pump has 2 O-rings and 1 lip-type seal, and it takes about 1.5hrs to remove the belts and timing cover to get at the oil pump, which just unbolts and slips off the front of the motor.

You fit 2 new O-rings, and 1 new lip-type seal, and refit the pump, and you're good for another 300,000kms!

This is a known problem with the 2.2L Camry engines, and has caused many Camry engine failures by people not checking the oil - until the slow leak runs the engine out of oil!

The only other problem with the Camry engine was the oil galleries were a little narrow, and if you are the type who never changes your oil until it looks like treacle - the narrow galleries will block up and starve the bearings - result, engine failure again.

The Camrys are a magic little chariot, the Missus has gone through 5 Camrys since 1992 - all bought used with low kms, and all provided the cheapest transportation with the best reliability since Caesar used Roman Chariots.

People sneer at Camrys, but they're the top-selling "small family car" for about 25 years for good reason.

Yes, the hood linings were a problem with them, I got our 2002 Camry roof lining repaired in 2012 for $180 by a local upholsterer. I pulled the hood lining out and refitted it, after he repaired it.

We've got a 2012 Atara S, a magic road machine, sticks to the road like glue, uses bugger-all fuel, and it cost us $19000 in late 2014, with 13,000kms on the clock, from a deceased estate.

Cheers, Ron.

HI
Camry motors ,most times just change the oil pump gear and shaft with seal . Fairly cheap as most times the shaft was worn .

Geez, Ron, if Japanese cars are THAT much better, why would anyone buy anything else? LOL

Full disclosure: I currently drive a made-in-Japan Toyota.

Too bad Takata, the former Japanese air bag maker, didn't embody such flawless quality.
Takata crisis timeline

"But buy an American or Australian-built vehicle, and it has the cheapest harness connector they can produce, with no interest in sealing the connector.
As a result, you get mud, dust and moisture, along with salt and other naturally-occurring chemicals in the soil, wreaking havoc in electrics and electronics with corrosion in harness connectors."

A lot of the USA gets the kind of winter weather that requires the application of salts to road surfaces. If what you say is true, seems like wiring and/or electronics problems would be quite common in those areas. But when I lived in Denver and northern Utah, I never heard of this being an issue. I certainly didn't experience it on my own US-built GM vehicle (Saturn) in Denver. ;) Body rust is an issue on older vehicles, perhaps they also experience corrosion issues on other parts of the car as well and I just haven't heard of it.

Candace, keep in mind that owning a Toyota in Australia is a religious experience and blasphemy is a serious transgression. Personally I'm an atheist who hasn't had a Toyota 4wd ever, and surprisingly I've not had any real issues, and that includes 2 Jeeps and a Landy. I'm in a Jap car now that's supposed to have lots of "bits missing", but they seem to be all there.

Your right about the religious experience h9. Been in a few tight ( remote) spots over the years and said to myself, thank God I bought a Toyota. And this from an atheist. :)
Dave.

G/Day Michael, I did my bit to keep Holden going as well!, that was the thing to keep the Holden going!!!.

LOL. I eventually traded to valiant.

Now wouldn't that make an interesting Post!


Cheers Axle.

The real 'scary' part is that for the next 12 months to 2 years every vehicle for sale will be effected , no matter what brand , new or 2nd hand .....who would buy a new Hilux for $60k when they can get a top of the range Colorado that 1 week ago was $55k and is now $35k ...warrantees , parts etc still the same as the week before , its the same car , just now more affordable....

"Why we could not make a real aussie 4x4 when everyone is so SUV/4x4 obsessed dunno !!!"

Track down a copy of the last EBA signed by Holden swampy. A real eye opener.
Dave.

Griffin, you may be pretty right. It appears the initial hype over discounts is just that - hype.

I'd have to opine the discounts will only be off RRP, and the only time you might find a deep discount, is on some high-price vehicle that has been in stock for 6 mths or more, and which is a colour that is not popular.

There will also be damaged stock and demos that will be competing with the used vehicle market, which will be under pressure, as the used car dealers will not want Holdens in their yards unless they are particularly cheap.

Holden discounts might not be a big as you think

Cheers, Ron.