Virus

We fall precisely into this demographic. We were due to travel to China next month. We were insured and could claim IF the provider actually cancelled the trip. They have offered a credit instead which we have accepted and now we are looking at heading north but my take on it is that there will be a reticence of people to leave home for a while. With talk now of empty football stadiums and overrun medical facilities, travel just seems so far off. I suspect caravan parks might become 'no go' places fairly early in the process with their shared facilities etc. Many of the autumn/winter travellers are also among the more vulnerable to this bug ie 60+. Many with underlying health issues. We have already heard on this forum of one station stay closing its gates. Isolated camping is a great option if you can find it but who wants to be in the bush when / if you get pneumonia which seems to be the critical symptom of it?

We also are in this group having booked and paid some 8-10 months ago and leave in 6 days time for a seven week holiday.

We also had booked a 2 week trip to China for August but will probably cancel this as the date gets closer.

The Seven weeks will mostly be spent in USA but we also do Honolulu and Singapore on the way home.

When we get to New York for the first week, we are going to get the northern flu shot which probably won't stop the Coronavirus but should prevent getting the flu which hopefully will keep our resistance up.

It is easy to say to holiday local but we would end up way out of pocket so might as well go and enjoy it and hope for the best.

Bit sad about China but we can get a full refund and maybe do it later after this all blows over.

Kazza, I hope you enjoy your visit to the US despite the circumstances. But be aware that lots of things here (in certain areas at least, namely NY) are closing.

"Isolated camping is a great option if you can find it but who wants to be in the bush when / if you get pneumonia..."

It sucks to simply get a mild-moderate case of the flu when you're out in the bush! Speaking from personal experience last year. :(

BTW, by the time I developed symptoms, it had been over a week since I left Alice Springs. So I picked it up in one of the communities or roadhouses I stopped in.

Speaking of the US flu shot this season... I had one, but today I was tested and diagnosed with influenza A. Apparently a strain that wasn't covered by the vaccine.

At least it's not something worse, but this makes the third time in 13 months that I've had the flu!

There are 131 identified variants of Influenza A. The US flu shot inoculates against two of them, and two strains of Influenza B.

The boffins, using Dark Arts, determine which strains are likely to be prevalent in the next flu season, and prepare vaccines accordingly. Sometimes they get it right, but not always.

I'm curious if Kazza went ahead with the trip?

All gone, by midday on Friday the government issued a warning advising not to travel, to then ignore the warning would have seen us travelling without travel insurance by not abiding by the warning.

The early warning came a few hours earlier when Broardway cancelled all their shows, we were booked to see The Phantom of the Opera on Saturday night.

We spent all Friday afternoon sending out emails to cancel all our booking, many of the we chose the cheaper prices knowing there was no cancellation or changing of dates but have tried to get a voucher for another date maybe in 12 months time.

All up, we will probably come out around $4000 a $5000 behind.

We consider ourselves lucky that it happen when it did, otherwise we could have found ourselves in USA and force into isolation in some outback town.

Never mind, we have hooked up the van and heading to Busselton for a couple of weeks.

Hopefully we can do the trip next year.

Kazza, look on the bright side. You would have wound up further behind if you were hospitalised in the US.

Fully agree, we were to fly to New York tonight but if all this happened a week later we would be up ship creek and could have been forced into isolation anywhere in USA.

Busselton is a good place to vent our pain and suffering and maybe have a Raging Bull or 10.

"...otherwise we could have found ourselves in USA and force into isolation in some outback town.."

I've only seen you mention NYC, where else were you planning on going? Or do you think anything other than NYC is an outback town? :)

I was not going to bore everyone but seeing you asked, it was a total of 47 days as follows.
Fly to NYC for 7 days - booked in to see Phantom of the Opera on our wedding anniversary.
Train to Niagara Falls for 2 nights.
Pick up car and drive to Chicago for 2 nights.
Drive Route 66 to west coast via Las Vegas and a helicopter flight to Grand Canon.
San Francisco 4 nights then drive the coast route to LA for 2 nights.
Fly to Honolulu 4 night - hire a Ford Mustang convertible for a day.
Singapore for 4 nights then home.

Bucket list - Route 66 ?
Bucket list - Ford Mustang convertible ?

Hopefully we might be still get to do it in 12 months time.

One thing that annoys me about the media is that they tell us how many have been infected and how many have died but never tell us how many have recovered from it.

Umm, if 100 people had it and 10 died wouldn't that mean 90 recovered?

Or does it mean that 90% have not died yet.

The figure I am talking about is the ones that have completely recovered.

They actually often publish those stats Kazza,
Death rate of around 2.5% to 3.5% (the stats seem to vary a little from time to time and/or region to region, but fairly consistent in this range)

Gazz , the corona virus is a different animal than influenzas . I know you are comparing infections and death rates between the two illnesses.
Corona leaves the lungs in a damaged state that leaves honeycomb structures where oxygen and carbon dioxide normally takes place. This is permanent and the lungs remain dysfunctional after the virus has left the victims.
Persons who already have respiratory dysfunction do not have a very good prognosis?

Pinko

Wow this is the first I read of some/any permanent effects. And this on a campingforum - go figure
What is the source of this info?
CJ

Some info here.
https://www.latimes.com/science/story/2020-02-29/how-this-coronavirus-kills-its-victims

Here's a very short, but clear video explanation of symptoms as they develop - this was published 10 March 2020SOURCE.

However, for a more in-depth explanation (but also short and concise) I've found this report to be pretty clear - Source: Science News 4th March

.

This doesn't seem to be to "relevant to self-drive camping/caravanning adventures in Australia." Michelle. :)
Dave.
Not having shot.

Of course it's relevant! Everyone is wondering should they travel - are they at risk if they do? Equinox's post is on topic as are all the replies. :)

And what about my pet Wombat. :)
Dave.
Bowing Out.

As at 11:00 hrs on 11 March 2020, we have 112 confirmed cases of coronavirus (COVID-19), including 3 deaths, in Australia.

60 in New South Wales
15 in Queensland
6 in South Australia
2 in Tasmania
15 in Victoria*
4 in Western Australia
10 associated with the Diamond Princess cruise ship

https://www.health.gov.au/news/health-alerts/novel-coronavirus-2019-ncov-health-alert


I only posted what I posted re: stats on the everyday flu after doing some work for a doctor who was very cranky at the media hype and all the panic buying around the country due to this virus - he said it's not warranted !

As far as travelling this big brown land, it won't be stopping me !

Happy and healthy travels people and support local business I say

Cheers
Gazz

I'm no expert but it seems you're jumping the gun on permanent lung damage Pinko. No doubt it's possible, likely even, in some people but this virus hasn't been around long enough for anyone to know what, if any, permanent damage may be caused to a normally healthy human body. At this point the unknowns far outweigh the knowns wrt COVID-19. National Geographic took a leap of faith comparing C19 to SARS on the basis of a hypothesis by University of Maryland School of Medicine associate professor Matthew B. Frieman, but it's speculative at this point.

COVID-19, SARS, MERS etc

I guess the bright side is that healthy people (in advanced, wealthy nations) usually recover from viruses without long-term damage as the immune system works its wonders and damaged cells are replaced. As the old saying goes, cell-wise no-one on this planet is actually more than about 10 years old (sort of).

An excerpt from the linked article below. Succinctly, in some serious case of COVID-19, there is a hyper-immune response, which can severely damage the lungs.


"During the third phase, lung damage continues to build—which can result in respiratory failure. Even if death doesn’t occur, some patients survive with permanent lung damage. According to the WHO, SARS punched holes in the lungs, giving them “a honeycomb-like appearance”—and these lesions are present in those afflicted by novel coronavirus, too."

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/2020/02/here-is-what-coronavirus-does-to-the-body/

It's critical people read the whole article Genny. Most of Prof Frieman's comments relate to previous viruses. He thinks that C19 behaves similarly, obviously based on limited data to this point:

"Look deeper, and the novel coronavirus APPEARS to follow other patterns of SARS, says University of Maryland School of Medicine associate professor Matthew B. Frieman, who studies highly pathogenic coronaviruses.......

Here's all the stats you need to see the countries infected, and the numbers.

Just over half the victims have recovered, world wide. Last estimated mortality rate was around 3.4%.

Worldometers - Coronavirus

What is interesting, is that the coronavirus is hitting hardest in nations who have a high percentage of smokers.
Smokers have weakened defences against respiratory diseases.

I'll be laying low for a while, I don't usually travel until Winter time anyway, and certainly have no real interest in going overseas at present. The Kimberly beckons.

Biggest shame so far is it looks like our Anzac Day ceremonies will all be cancelled. The older veterans are the ones most at risk.

Cheers, Ron.

The real scary part is that more people DIE every day world wide from car 'accidents' , more people DIE every day from illegal drug use , more people DIE every day world wide from being SHOT by another human being , perhaps this virus is Mother Natures way of saying "I culled 19 million in 1919 ,how many can I get now ? "

Cant remember any of those shutting down 2 countries.

Well maybe the humans shooting humans have.

Alloy, more people die from legal drug use.

Happy tripping

Booked for Bali start of April......cost me heaps for airfares ( Easter hols ), so will still be going.

Booked for a 4 night Moreton Island cruise in June.....ship is going around the Pacific Islands previous to our cruise so mostly aussies on it, so unless the ship has been quarantined or cancelled, we'll still be going on that as well.

Good for you Gronk. Enjoy your holiday.

Good site, thanks Zippo.

There's also a very active "COVID-19 - Reconsidering Travel" discussion on the Whirlpool site. Worth a read for those with any overseas travel bookings (or plans).

To keep the spirits up with all this media virus news and no travelling.

Go to abc news, scroll down to Good news and read that, then go down to the best photos of the week and have a look at them..

I guess that answers Allan's question in his opening post. We had planned a visit with Melbourne family at Easter. That's not happening now.

I had thought a few weeks ago that when I get my ute back from its heart transplant we might hook up the van and self isolate/social distance ourselves out in the bush somewhere, but the prospect of limited ability to resupply ruled that out with the regional grocers' response to the raids by city grubs. ScoMo's restriction on unnecessary travel just confirms the decision.

I think we would-be travellers have quite a lengthy period of at-home activities to look forward to - like it or not.

.
Frank,

Yesterday we went for a lengthy walk along a quiet beach in beautiful weather.
We are also considering going for single-day outings to hiking trails to get some country air.
These are healthy activities that maintain social distancing.
Maybe not so easy for city dwellers but we are fortunate to be on the Sunshine Coast.
But long-distance treks are out for this year.

Allan,

No quiet beaches for us, but we do front on to a nice park where we often walk, and for real exercise go to the nearby Botanical Gardens with its kilometers of hilly bike and walking trails.

Speaking of beaches, has the news up there reported the crowds on Bondi Beach yesterday, and ScoMo's reaction to it? After last week's limit on outdoor public gatherings of 500, over 8000 laid cheek-to-cheek (literally, LOL) on the sand in the sun. Someone has since read the riot act to the local council, resulting in the closure of Bondi Beach and subsequently all metropolitan beaches until a method of crowd control and social distancing can be devised.

Some on-the-sand interviewees didn't help. " Oh I don't listen to the news or read the paper" and "I've been coming here for years. Doesn't matter what they say, it won't change me or what I do", etc.

As a result, Scotty says we can look forward to even more draconian measures. Can't wait!

.
Hi Frank,

We are spoiled a bit here in Camelot (aka Sunshine Coast).
The beach I referred to was Mooloolaba which was well populated yesterday with young families but it is extensive at 2km long of wide perfect sand. So we did a 4km walk without getting closer than 3-4m from anyone.
We also have a fine Native Botanical Garden nearby and plenty of walking trails in the hinterland. Just have to forego the coffee shops.

Yes, Bondi was well reported on the ABC internet. I guess that many said "Let's go to the beach" and having done so and encountered the crowd decided to forego social distancing and stay. There is a degree of bravado in the Aussie psyche. It is something to perhaps admire but can also lead to misadventure. At my age and health condition, I am playing it very safe indeed. Isolated walks maybe but Woolworths are delivering the weekly groceries ordered online. And Bunnings won't see me for some time!
No outback trek this year I'm sorry to say.

But if draconian measures are what it is going to take to beat this, then so be it.

On Bondi Beach "over 8000 laid cheek-to-cheek (literally, LOL) on the sand in the sun. "

It was indeed over 8000. It was reported to be around 50,000. This mass disregard of social distancing was a major factor in Berejiklian's decisions of yesterday to begin closing down NSW. Basically, if people are too stupid to look after themselves, government (this time, State) will do it for them with the aforementioned draconian measures.

I would still have preferred to have been on Bondi beach over my local supermarket where people are coughing over all the fruit and using bare hands to rummage through the bannanas and apples and other unpackaged food - a real breeding ground for the virus compared to near naked bodies in the UV rolling around in the sun and water.

Not advocating what happened on Bondi but supermarkets are worse - needs perspective.

One of the worst aspects in the supermarkets - or elsewhere for that matter - is the use of CASH for purchases. Apart from a few parts of our person, cash is probably the biggest single infection vector out there. I mean, when was the last time you saw someone disinfect any cash? While it may pose a problem for some, a move to card-only - which some businesses have already made - would be wise as a purchaser.

Hey Frank, as an off topic question, what is happening with your Ute and its heart transplant?
Cheers
Nick

Hi Nick

Off-topic answer :-) I'll try to keep it brief.

Driving at 100kph. An unusual noise from somewhere, then oil and smoke everywhere, very spectacular :-(. Long story short, a faulty injector cracked #3 piston. BT50, 2 years and 22k out of manufacturer's warranty. However Mazda has accepted liability, presumably under statutory warranty, and has installed a new long motor. So far so good, but it has taken 7 weeks to get to this point.

Issue now is they (Mazda Australia, who is instructing the dealer) want to replace only the faulty injector and re-use the other 4 injectors. Given history in the forums I'm not keen on that in a new motor. Dealer allowed me to get them tested, 2 came back out of spec in one of the four tests done. Mazda Australia (not the dealer) now want to do their own tests. Injectors now in Melbourne (BT and I are in Sydney) with a 2 to 3 week turn-around. That will take the saga to over 12 weeks whoa to go.

Problem now is if the various governments progressively shut down more employers/industries, I might not get the injectors back for months and therefore the ute remains in the dealer's workshop. Fingers crossed that doesn't happen, but it's a real possibility. At least it's under cover!

They've given me a rental car (Mitsu ASX, brand new!) so I'm not without wheels, but it has no roofrack, canopy or towbar. LOL.

Cheers

EDIT: BTW, my dealer has been terrific. Is on my side, proactive and doing his best to get a satisfactory result for me and deserves recomendation.Macarthur Mazda, Campbelltown, NSW.

.
Yes Alan, just look at how much the situation has worsened since your opening post 5 days ago.
Certainly "sit out the winter" but make the most of it...... gardening, maintenance, hobbies and getting to read a few books that have been patiently waiting?

Our August/September trek may not happen and I am expecting maybe 12 months until some normality.

Bunnings ( Westfield) shares may be one upside on the ASX..

If they're closed because they are not essential, then maybe not :-(