And you wonder why borders will take a long time to open

Submitted: Tuesday, May 26, 2020 at 16:29
ThreadID: 140071 Views:3672 Replies:22 FollowUps:92
Here we are all doing everything right here in South Australia, when today we had our first case of Covid19 in over 19 days from a women in her 50’s that was granted compassionate ground to travel to South Australia from Victoria.

It’s about time we keep our borders closed to stop any future outbreaks from states that are not free of Covid19.

I know many may not agree on this, but for me the only way to keep people safe is stop all interstate travel, including on compassionate grounds
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Reply By: ExplorOz Team - Michelle - Tuesday, May 26, 2020 at 16:49

Tuesday, May 26, 2020 at 16:49
Same here in WA - today we also had our first case in ages but its come from a live export ship that docked at Fremantle - there's a crew of 48 and 7 of them were sick and 6 tested positive so off to hotel isolation for them. The rest that are apparently "not sick" are staying on board - oh dear, here we go again...

It's important to keep our borders closed but this is hard to keep international exports/imports. Same with interstate transport of goods.

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Follow Up By: Member - Stephen L (Clare SA) - Tuesday, May 26, 2020 at 16:57

Tuesday, May 26, 2020 at 16:57
Hi Michelle

Yes it’s very disappointing when states that are doing the right thing get let down from people that are not residence of that state and bring this disease into their state.

I know most people take it very serious, including me, but it goes to show we are still a very long way from things being back to normal.


Keep Safe


Stephen
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Follow Up By: John Baas - Wednesday, May 27, 2020 at 02:15

Wednesday, May 27, 2020 at 02:15
Hi Stephen.

Could I point out (and I do disagree with you in your position entirely) re "Yes it’s very disappointing when states that are doing the right thing get let down from people that are not residence of that state and bring this disease into their state.":.... that it was actually your State that made the decision to 'let' this poor unfortunate in, in the first place...

Cheers.

JB.
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Follow Up By: Member - peter_mcc - Wednesday, May 27, 2020 at 09:22

Wednesday, May 27, 2020 at 09:22
They let the lady in to visit a dying relative. She came from the UK, did 7 days of quarantine in Melbourne and tested negative there. From the other stories in the media about people who have not been able to travel (to/from overseas or interstate) the situation must have been pretty dire for them to give permission.

Sure, it stuffed up SA's statistics but how heartless do you want to be?

Besides, you still have transport and essential workers moving around so things may still happen.
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Follow Up By: Member - silkwood - Wednesday, May 27, 2020 at 16:35

Wednesday, May 27, 2020 at 16:35
...things WILL still happen.

Cheers,
Mark
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Follow Up By: Batt's - Wednesday, May 27, 2020 at 22:00

Wednesday, May 27, 2020 at 22:00
Not very smart letting someone in cutting quarantine short just so they can visit a dying relative. So now what if others are infected and more people need to come in to visit their now dying relatives which wouldn't have been infected before this decision was made who will be held responsible and possibly gaoled for manslaughter or whatever charge comes under. Heads should roll for the first breach of the new quarantine laws that are in place to protect the population what's a life worth now it seems very little if this whole story is completely true.
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Reply By: B1B2 - Tuesday, May 26, 2020 at 16:52

Tuesday, May 26, 2020 at 16:52
In WA the sheep carrier Al Kuwait has been docked in Fremantle for 3 days with positive covid 19 cases.
they must be contained onboard.
What about all the other overseas ships off Hedland, (approx 50 ships) and 20 off Point Samson, Mackay and Hay Point, (40 ships), Newcastle (30 ships) who is checking that all the overseas crews stay onboard?

The Bass Strait ferry crews are confined to the ship for their complete swing.

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Follow Up By: Member - rocco2010 - Tuesday, May 26, 2020 at 17:00

Tuesday, May 26, 2020 at 17:00
As I understand it in Port Hedland the only way off the ore carriers is via the ferry service run by the local Mission for Seafarers so I guess that is under control.

Worth mentioning that tourists who want a close up look at the port operations can join the first ferry trip of the day (well they could two years ago). Gives great insight into the scale of the operations.

Stay safe.

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Follow Up By: Member - Stephen L (Clare SA) - Tuesday, May 26, 2020 at 17:02

Tuesday, May 26, 2020 at 17:02
AgreeB1B2

We hear on the news that WA has 6 new cases from that sheep carrier in Fremantle, and for reasons like this, every vessel entering every state must be quarantined and the cost for any health checks by the shipping company, and not the residence of the state what they intend to drop anchor


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Stephen
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Follow Up By: B1B2 - Tuesday, May 26, 2020 at 17:12

Tuesday, May 26, 2020 at 17:12
Rocco,
The ferry would be have been used while they are at anchor ( but not during the pandemic).
It's when they load the ships at the wharf, the crew need to be contained onboard.
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Follow Up By: Member - FSH00 - Tuesday, May 26, 2020 at 17:47

Tuesday, May 26, 2020 at 17:47
Some of the berths at headland are on the other side of the river & use a crew boat to take them ashore when needed.
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Reply By: OzzieCruiser - Tuesday, May 26, 2020 at 17:06

Tuesday, May 26, 2020 at 17:06
Noting that the woman is not from Victoria but is from overseas and her first port of landing back in Australia just happened to be Melbourne and went straight into isolation in a hotel - how Covid 19 was not picked up as part of the approval process to travel to SA is not clear.

If SA had an appropriate first airport of call she would have flown direct to Adelaide rather than Melbourne. Same with others interstaters coming back home from overseas but having to transit via Melbourne or Sydney and being picked up there - maybe Victoria and NSW should have stopped people from other States returning from overseas via their international airports.

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Follow Up By: Member - Stephen L (Clare SA) - Tuesday, May 26, 2020 at 17:20

Tuesday, May 26, 2020 at 17:20
OzzieCruiser.....

The lady in question was checked by South Australian Health Authorities when she landed in Adelaide and it was confirmed that he had a mild case of Covid19. and put into quarantine.

If Victorian Health Authorises had checked her for Covid19 before she boarded that plane, she should have been stopped from making that plane flight and putting other passengers on that plane at risk.

From what we are now hearing, different States have different rules on how they manage the spread of this most horrific disease.


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Stephen
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Follow Up By: OzzieCruiser - Tuesday, May 26, 2020 at 19:34

Tuesday, May 26, 2020 at 19:34
Yes I completely agree - she was only 1 week into her compulsory 2 week isolation in Melbourne so she should have been tested - firstly by Vic but in granting approval to travel the SA authorities should have required evidence of being COVID 19 free.
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Follow Up By: Member - Boobook - Wednesday, May 27, 2020 at 18:04

Wednesday, May 27, 2020 at 18:04
Stephen,

She was tested in Victoria before going to SA. The result cae back negative.


This is totally a SA screw up, in reality, I'm afraid. SA allowed an international traveller, then allowed her to come to SA after only 1 week in isolation.

You should be saying thanks to Victoria. For assisting, putting up your passenger and funding a transit and Testing costs.


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Follow Up By: Member - Stephen L (Clare SA) - Wednesday, May 27, 2020 at 19:26

Wednesday, May 27, 2020 at 19:26
Boobook

Not an SA screw up........

The facts are.....

After arriving from the UK, she was placed in isolation in Melbourne.

3 days after arriving in Melbourne, she had her first test, and it came back negative, and this was the only test that Victorian Health Authorises gave her..

4 days later she boarded a Jetstar flight to Adelaide, with no testing before she boarded the plane.

Arriving in Adelaide, her transport Was under Police escort and took her to her next isolation place where she was tested, and it was positive......all within that short......not likely.

If she had been tested before the 50 minute flight to Adelaide it would have been discovered then and stop other passengers at being at risk now,

Either way, there is a very big public outcry here in South Australia, as well as 19 people that were on the same flight now in isolation from being in close contact with her on the plane.

Regardless weather it was Victorian or South Australian Health Authorities at fault, it needs to be a timely reminder to all that regardless of what ever case, all people must remain in the one location before being able to cross state borders
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Follow Up By: OzzieCruiser - Wednesday, May 27, 2020 at 19:34

Wednesday, May 27, 2020 at 19:34
So SA was at fault for not requiring current evidence she was COVID free before getting on the plane - results can be delivered within 24 hours - SA accepted a 4 day old test when giving approval.

SA fault.
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Follow Up By: dean ( SA ) - Wednesday, May 27, 2020 at 20:51

Wednesday, May 27, 2020 at 20:51
Agree SA and who ever wants should keep the borders closed...that's what I want until all states are clear.
In this case the SA govt. stuffed up and they have acknowledged it.
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Follow Up By: Frank P (NSW) - Wednesday, May 27, 2020 at 21:00

Wednesday, May 27, 2020 at 21:00
The states will never be clear until a vaccine is available. There will not be zero cases until a vaccine is available.

If you wait for that your state and possibly the nation will go broke.

It is time for a reasonably considered, federated approach based on rational risk analysis.
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Reply By: Member - FSH00 - Tuesday, May 26, 2020 at 17:42

Tuesday, May 26, 2020 at 17:42
I live in Mackay & work at Haypoint, there were procedures & checks put into place well before things got serious in oz, the ship’s are not to berth before 2 weeks at anchor, report their last ports of call & are required to report ANY illnesses on board, the crew are not given shore leave. I can only guess that the sheep carrier was given permission to berth by the authorities.
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Reply By: CSeaJay - Tuesday, May 26, 2020 at 18:23

Tuesday, May 26, 2020 at 18:23
It is sooo easy to say the old ”if it saves only 1 life then it is worth it” that you hear from pollies.
But how many livelihoods are totally stuffed and how many mental health cases arise and lead to suicide.
It is so easy to make statements as these, When not faced with the full picture.
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Follow Up By: Member - Stephen L (Clare SA) - Tuesday, May 26, 2020 at 18:28

Tuesday, May 26, 2020 at 18:28
Fully agree, but the question on the radio now is.....why was she not tested before being aloud on the plane.

One Doctor was on the radio, and said it was not mandatory for testing passengers boarding planes, so how can it go from no symptoms to showing symptoms in a 50 minute flight.

It’s for reasons like this, the borders must remain closed so people can get back to normal activities and people get their jobs back

Keep Safe
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Follow Up By: CSeaJay - Tuesday, May 26, 2020 at 18:35

Tuesday, May 26, 2020 at 18:35
Stephen

Millions of people cant get their normal lives back without movement of people over borders. Fact. Livelihoods lost, fact. Leads to mental health and suicide, fact.
This debunks your last paragraph totally.

I am amazed we can have ‘experts’ on health and people making statements on the back of this one stat, but we cannot make jokes on Fridays. This post have the potential to upset a lot of people not in a safe job.
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Follow Up By: Member - Stephen L (Clare SA) - Tuesday, May 26, 2020 at 18:54

Tuesday, May 26, 2020 at 18:54
I still stand by closed borders, and it is now up to individual states to get tougher on testing so people within those states can travel freely, just like in South Australia.

Keeping your state safe is the only way and in the case of South Australia, most residents are fully supportive of these measures.

Yes this does effect everyone, and we all want a positive outcome as soon as possible.

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Follow Up By: Michael ( Moss Vale NSW) - Tuesday, May 26, 2020 at 19:56

Tuesday, May 26, 2020 at 19:56
It certainly has been a long and frustrating road. Fortunately on June 1 a lot changes throughout the country are coming and a few states are allowing unlimited travel within your own state. If most people can get back to work and we can get a little freedom and normality, that should keep everyone happy and safe until we can get to the stage when things get totally back to normal .
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Follow Up By: Frank P (NSW) - Tuesday, May 26, 2020 at 20:04

Tuesday, May 26, 2020 at 20:04
Well, I don't think individual states should have the unilateral right to close their borders.

There are Constitutional provisions on this. We are a NATION (my emphasis) of states and the Constitution clearly recognises this in its provisions specifying freedom of movement, trade and intercourse (!) between states.

Whether we like it or not with our parochial preferences, states are dependent on each other for the nation's economic well-being, be it in tourism or distribution of wealth via federally gathered taxes or many other facets.

Opening or closing of borders should be a federal decision, with input from the states. But only input. The decision should rest with the feds because we are a federated nation with a small population, each of us affected by our neighbours.


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Follow Up By: Member - Stephen L (Clare SA) - Tuesday, May 26, 2020 at 20:29

Tuesday, May 26, 2020 at 20:29
Frank, ask this question to families of the 102 Australians that have died from Covid19 ?

You can guess what their answer will be.

Yes we all want to travel freely, but while some states have different thoughts, I for one would not like tourist into our town that has been free of Covid19 just to please people that want to travel and are not taking it seriously
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Follow Up By: Frank P (NSW) - Tuesday, May 26, 2020 at 22:57

Tuesday, May 26, 2020 at 22:57
Stephen,

Those deaths are tragic, there's no taking away from that.

As I posted above, I disagree with the mechanism of the border closures, but I agree that they were appropriate when they occurred and have been effective in controlling the spread of Covid.

Overall, the curve has been flattened. I think it is recognised that we have not and will not eliminate the beast until we get an effective vaccine, but we have it under enough control that we will be able to detect and handle small outbreaks should they occur. Indeed, that is happening now.

The science says that now it is in the community we cannot eliminate this disease until a vaccine is available. It may not be widely available for another nine months or so.

The national and state economies depend in large part on tourism and therefore on open state borders. They cannot wait 9 months. If we were still in the position we were in in March/April, then yes, do what has to be done, as we did in those months. But we are no longer in that position. We've moved on, we've damped the thing down to a controllable level.

I think what the closed-off states are afraid of is community transmission. Now that we have done what we've done these last couple of months, community transmission is almost non-existent.

It is now time to rationally consider risk management. It is the risk of a manageable breakout in a small area versus the risk of an overly damaged economy, at both state and federal level.

I think Australia has spectacularly managed the major risk. We have learned how to handle an outbreak. I think we now have the acumen and wherewithal to manage the lesser on-going risk that faces us and strike a balance between handling an outbreak and rescuing the economy - to the betterment of all of us.

I think a rational national policy formulated in concert by the states and the feds would better serve the nation than the rather parochial state-by-state arrangement we have now.

It will be interesting to see how the Palmer and Hanson actions the High Court pan out. A number of level-headed commentators think they have a fair chance of succeeding.

Cheers

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Follow Up By: John Baas - Wednesday, May 27, 2020 at 01:53

Wednesday, May 27, 2020 at 01:53
Frank P. You have absolutely nailed it. Many thanks.

And I would never have thought I'd ever be appreciating gasbag Palmer for anything in what's left of my lifetime, but go Clive... :-). I'll pass on Hanson but...

Cheers.

JB. (71 ancient but still getting about a bit...)
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Follow Up By: Allan B (Sunshine Coast) - Wednesday, May 27, 2020 at 12:06

Wednesday, May 27, 2020 at 12:06
.
Right-on Frank.

I suspect that Queensland Premier Annastacia Palaszczuk would be quite happy to have the High Court declare border closures as unconstitutional. It would benefit the Qld economy and if virus problems occur she can shrug her shoulders and sidestep any responsibility. It would be typical of her political manner.

For my own part and being of high risk, I care not as I will continue to practice very careful behaviour.

Cheers
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Reply By: RMD - Tuesday, May 26, 2020 at 18:33

Tuesday, May 26, 2020 at 18:33
For the moment travel within the state seems the wisest move, not interstate without rigorous checking. Here in little Beijing, Dan controlled us all but knowingly allowed his meat worker mate to hide Covid workers until it all blew up out of control. Until the same is applied to all persons by the premier's we will continue to have problems.

I am still wondering what a Women is? and where is the compassionate ground. Isn't it "on compassionate grounds? A permission for an action, not an area of land.
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Reply By: Member - Mark (Tamworth NSW) - Tuesday, May 26, 2020 at 20:30

Tuesday, May 26, 2020 at 20:30
mmmm ...................
The ACT has open borders and has the second longest # of days without an infection, ACT 22, the NT 24. OK the ACT only has a population of 457 000 compared to states
My region (New England North West NSW) has open borders (not that it's too popular in winter) and hasn't had an infection is 6 + weeks.
My SIL can travel down from Brisbane to North Coast NSW to see her mother for a weekend and travel back to Brisbane without a problem, yet NSW persons can't set foot inside Qld without issues.

All very consistent and logical

Mark
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Follow Up By: qldcamper - Wednesday, May 27, 2020 at 09:13

Wednesday, May 27, 2020 at 09:13
Why do people think QLDers can travel back and forth freely. We still need to self isolate upon return. I will soon be forced to return to WA for work so will have to live over there. To return home to QLD would be a 2 week isolation without being able to leave my property and another 2 weeks in a Perth hotel room on the way back to work, dont call that coming and going freely.
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Follow Up By: Member - bbuzz (NSW) - Wednesday, May 27, 2020 at 09:27

Wednesday, May 27, 2020 at 09:27
Sister In Law.

I love these!~

bill
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Reply By: George_M - Tuesday, May 26, 2020 at 20:38

Tuesday, May 26, 2020 at 20:38
Why will borders take a long time to open?

That's an easy one. Here we go.

The Australian Federal Government established a non-political Australian Health Protection Principal Committee (AHPPC) to provide advise that shaped government policy in respect to COVID-19. This committee is made up of the Chief Medical Officers of the Federal and State Governments, and their respective deputy CMOs

The execution of this advise would occur through the National Cabinet, made up of the PM, State Premiers, and Chief Ministers.

The AHPPC made a series of recommendations about isolation, international border movements, quarantine, and ICU beds etc. The AHPPC did not recommend the closure of State borders because it was considered to be both ineffective, and inconsistent with the "flattening the curve" strategy.

Then some State CMOs, not all but some, returned to their home States and recommended a different strategy - an "elimination" strategy -radically different to the "flatten the curve" strategy they agreed with the Federal body on which they sat. Their respective State Premiers and Chief Ministers, not all but some, accepted their local CMO's advice, even though they had already agreed a different position in National Cabinet.

So there we have it: some State borders will take a long time to open because some States have decided to adopt a strategy different to that agreed by their representatives on the AHPPC and the National Cabinet.

How typically Australian! :-)

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Follow Up By: Member - Stephen L (Clare SA) - Tuesday, May 26, 2020 at 20:55

Tuesday, May 26, 2020 at 20:55
This better to have closed borders than complete lockdowns that have occurred in some countries around the world

Know one likes the inconvenience, but the health and well-being of our populations is paramount in my books.


Keep Safe
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Follow Up By: George_M - Tuesday, May 26, 2020 at 21:20

Tuesday, May 26, 2020 at 21:20
And as close of business yesterday there were a combined total of 22 people hospitalised with COVID-19 in NSW and Victoria. Four of these patients are in intensive care.

Our infection rates and death rates per million people are among the lowest on the planet, and are better than (infection rate) or equal to (death rate) than NZ. NZ adopted an "elimination" strategy.

The authorities have demonstrated that they can test, identify, isolate and treat any of the small outbreaks that are likely to occur over the next year or so.

Since when have we become so fragile and scared?
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Follow Up By: Rangiephil - Tuesday, May 26, 2020 at 21:59

Tuesday, May 26, 2020 at 21:59
What enables the State premiers to keep their borders closed is the JobKeeper and Jobseeker money from the Commonwealth.

So the premiers can virtue signal while accepting other peoples money.

I haven't seen SA rejecting its subsidised GST payments mainly paid for by NSW of teh Jobkeepe ror Jobseeker payments.
Looks like hypocrisy to me.
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Follow Up By: Member - 2208mate - Tuesday, May 26, 2020 at 22:31

Tuesday, May 26, 2020 at 22:31
.........and there you have a winner..
The real problem IMO is foreign borders which would freshen up the attack from the 'real' and numerous disease carriers.
I'm sure some folk would like a permanent lock down of council areas.
Geographically large states v geographically small states, it's a shemozzle.
As other folks have said the effects of the virus are forever no matter the amount of the mutations.
Open the internal borders and let the Country start to get back in business..
The draconian rules have served for the moment, let reason rule again..
..and if I hear the 'If it only saves one person it's worth it' yarn again I'm sure I will expire from it and not the Chinese 'flu..
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Follow Up By: Member - David M (SA) - Tuesday, May 26, 2020 at 22:54

Tuesday, May 26, 2020 at 22:54
There's always some smart a-se that wants to interfere in our way of life by bringing the likes of the Chief Medical Officer and CMO's into the debate.
Dave.
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Follow Up By: John Baas - Wednesday, May 27, 2020 at 03:00

Wednesday, May 27, 2020 at 03:00
I've read all of the above and it has now crystallized my view that I should have much more strongly advocated, two months ago, that my LGA WA City of Stirling, should have ring fenced itself against the plague infesting the adjacent southern City of Perth; but too late now alas ... many deaths are clogging the morgues there.

We are abjectly hoping the pestilence can be contained within our boundary now for the sake of neighbors north in Kingsley, South Geraldton etc....

Cheers.

JB.
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Reply By: swampy - Wednesday, May 27, 2020 at 05:49

Wednesday, May 27, 2020 at 05:49
HI
Being the states are all running there own shows ,some decisions warranted many not , I`m glad they`re not running the roads dept ,oh dam almost forgot . Basically so many states all pulling in different directions similar to how road rules and licensing is handled!!
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Reply By: qldcamper - Wednesday, May 27, 2020 at 09:29

Wednesday, May 27, 2020 at 09:29
This world wide epidemic started with just 1 infected human.
People forget very quickly, thats the only reason political parties bounce back.
Learn from other countries mistakes.
Open the borders before there is a vaccine and Australia will be digging mass graves too.
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Follow Up By: Member - 2208mate - Wednesday, May 27, 2020 at 10:02

Wednesday, May 27, 2020 at 10:02
You seem to forget that the external borders are leaky and will continue to be so.
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Follow Up By: HKB Electronics - Wednesday, May 27, 2020 at 10:08

Wednesday, May 27, 2020 at 10:08
Vaccine, sounds good, reality is they haven't been able to develop a vaccine to treat similar upto now. How many years have they been trying to find a vaccine to combat AIDS or Ebola?

The Australia expert in researching vaccine, can't remember his name indicate they will most likely never develop one so I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for one to come along but I do hope that is not the case.
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Follow Up By: Michael ( Moss Vale NSW) - Wednesday, May 27, 2020 at 10:29

Wednesday, May 27, 2020 at 10:29
A Vaccine may be great but who would want to be the first monkey after the trials to put their hand up?
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Follow Up By: Bazooka - Friday, May 29, 2020 at 00:37

Friday, May 29, 2020 at 00:37
Good news HKB. Ebola finally has a vaccine! I read one view during the last big plague in Africa which suggested (probably accurately) that the main reason for one not being found before was that there is/was little money in it for drug companies - the effected countries being poor and the wealthy countries unaffected.

From memory you're right about corona vaccines (and HIV) still being unavailable despite years of research and millions of dollars of investment (which petered out as governments lost interest and no answers were forthcoming). More good news on that front though. The Orange Idiot promises one for this particular strain by Xmas. Unfortunately I don't think he specified which Xmas.

As far as interstate movement goes, there has really been no actual lockout anywhere afaik. Plenty of movement has continued for "essential workers" and others. Here's the SA List. I don't know the facts of this story but it looks like SA's system of arbitrary checks worked. In all likelihood at least a few other Covid-19 carriers have gone in and out of the state without causing problems or coming to the attention of the media. People can be asymptomatic but infectious and testing only shows a snapshot at a single point in time.

I'm with Frank. The risk of a second wave is real IF people stop social distancing, isolating etc when rules are relaxed, but at some point the country has to start a careful transition to whatever the new normality is. The economic AND social costs must be weighed up against the health risks. Those of us in the riskier demographics will just have to take extra care and rely on those with symptoms being responsible and getting tested.
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Follow Up By: OzzieCruiser - Friday, May 29, 2020 at 12:36

Friday, May 29, 2020 at 12:36
Whats an Orange Idiot?
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Follow Up By: Frank P (NSW) - Friday, May 29, 2020 at 12:38

Friday, May 29, 2020 at 12:38
Donald Trump. Next time you see him on TV observe his orange tan and the white goggle marks around his eyes.

Rather like this:

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Follow Up By: Bazooka - Friday, May 29, 2020 at 13:59

Friday, May 29, 2020 at 13:59
Yes Frank, although I think the primates in your pic have far more humanity than the fellow in question. This is the very same bloke who early on told his American supporters (aptly described as morona virus victims by Peter Fitzsimmons) that Covid-19 was a Democrat hoax.

In some ways THIS sums up what Americans have to deal with on a daily basis - although he's been FAR worse, as his recent Twitter outrage re Lori Klausutis' sad death shows only too well. "Vicious lies" was how her husband described Trumps tweets. Trump's a compulsive lair as most know but this was nasty even for him.
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Follow Up By: Allan B (Sunshine Coast) - Friday, May 29, 2020 at 18:32

Friday, May 29, 2020 at 18:32
.
The scary thing is not Donald Trump........... He will pass.

The scary thing is how many Americans support him and his fictitious notions.
Even when Trump goes, those believers remain!


Cheers
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Follow Up By: Frank P (NSW) - Friday, May 29, 2020 at 19:45

Friday, May 29, 2020 at 19:45
Yes, Allan. As has been posted elsewhere, the moronavirus is an illness well established in USA.

I fear our nation will become infected due to cocacolanisalistaion. In fact it is already well advanced - sadly not only in this isolated outpost of once independent culture, but even in the bastions of our once colonial masters.

Unless we rebel, not with guns, but with our own self respect and ideals, we are doomed.
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Follow Up By: Bazooka - Friday, May 29, 2020 at 20:12

Friday, May 29, 2020 at 20:12
Indeed Allan. Who in their right mind would think it acceptable for "protestors" (of any sort) bearing assault weapons to enter state legislature buildings? Even more incredibly this was facilitated by state police.

Trump will pass but the respect for the rule of law and reasoned debate that once existed in the USA will still be under real threat because of the lack of criticism of him by Republican leaders. They're tainted not just by association but by their own inaction to moderate Trump's excesses.
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Reply By: HKB Electronics - Wednesday, May 27, 2020 at 09:56

Wednesday, May 27, 2020 at 09:56
"Here we are all doing everything right here in South Australia"

Easy to write that when your leaving it up to other states to take on your responsibilities as usual.

To to be clear, Victoria has had to take on SA's responsibilities as we have no choice but to accept a person coming into Australia who may have COVID as the SA goverment and federal goverment has allowed her to fly. They then go into quarantine in VIC for a week and then fly to SA. As SA let her into the country shouldn't your state be responsible for the traveler?

We don't know exactly what happened, the person is in Vic and may have had no temperature, she wants to get to SA so when asked is she experiencing any systems she says no. She gets to SA and decides to tell the truth. It then is Victoria that is at fault. She may well have been tested in Vic for COD and tested negative, the tests aren't all that accurate for COVID in the early stages, if the patient is not truthful which they may have not have been as they want to get to SA it makers it even more difficult.

To me this sounds more like a case of the SA goverment trying to shift the blame for letting her fly into the country to start with, if she had been able to fly into Adelaide you would have still ended up with her.

What I would like to know is why do we in Vic have to allow these people to land here, if there not from Vic we should be able to refuse them? Why aren't they doing 2 weeks isolation overseas before flying? The greater majority of our cases are now people flying into country who may be going to other states, how about you other states take responsibility for your residents and send a sealed bus from SA for example and pick them up from the airport instead of leaving Vic to deal with your problem and then complaining when it goes wrong?

When SA closed the borders maybe Vic should have turned off the power to SA:)
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Reply By: CSeaJay - Wednesday, May 27, 2020 at 10:40

Wednesday, May 27, 2020 at 10:40
If there is one tragic death from a tourist on a remote 4wd track, we should close that track to everybody because "if we can save just one life it is worth it" says the politician

And if one person falls from the Wallaman Falls lookout then the track should be closed?

I know the above is different to the argument of closing borders, but there are parallels, the main one being that there are millions of people who's livelyhoods depend on movement of people, and to deny them because of this lousy example of the OP is tragic, as more people will start to suffer the ultimate consequence indirectly.
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Follow Up By: Ron N - Wednesday, May 27, 2020 at 22:47

Wednesday, May 27, 2020 at 22:47
It's idiocy to try and compare tourist deaths from accidents and misadventure, to deaths from a rampant, incurable virus that spreads quickly without controls.

What would you prefer to see? - a wide-open economy here, just like Brazil? - with the same level of Australian virus deaths as Brazil?

Yes, the economy comes before anything else! You should be on the Trump Team.

The economy is not destroyed - this is a hiccup, the same as the 1979-1981 recession brought on by rocketing oil prices and monstrous interest rates.
The same as the 1987 sharemarket crash.
The same as the early 1990's, "recession we had to have" (quoting a famous smart-alec PM).

Plenty of people lost their jobs and businesses in all those economic events - and unemployment soared, too. I'll wager suicides went up then, too.

In 5 yrs time, the COVID-19 virus will be just an economic hiccup and we will have found a lot of new ways of working, founded a lot of new local manufacturing, and hopefully, have better organised and more effective checks on travellers health.

It wasn't too many decades ago, all ships had to pull up in a designated quarantine area, and stay there until all passengers and crew could be verified as being free of infectious diseases.

It's time we did that with all methods of long-distance travel, and particularly for overseas travellers.


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Follow Up By: qldcamper - Thursday, May 28, 2020 at 08:16

Thursday, May 28, 2020 at 08:16
Yes people losing their livleyhood is tragic, but it is the people movers that are at the highest risk of spreading and contracting the virus.
Wont need a livleyhood if they are dead.

What did it take in europe during WW2 for the people of various countries to resign themselves to the fact they might or will lose everything and to concentrate on staying alive. Was it the stench of the bodies laying in the rubble or the piles of dead building up cause there was nobody left that could bury them?

It is looking unlikley that the normal the world knew will never return, this is a world changing event.

If a few of us going bankrupt is the worst that happens think ourselves lucky.

If America drags us all into a war with china and their allies we will be a lot worse off, because there is a strong possibility that "we" wont win.

I am not saying that we should give up but lets be greatful for the fact that we still have borders to restrict and support the people that are trying to keep us alive.
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Reply By: Members - Bow - Wednesday, May 27, 2020 at 11:33

Wednesday, May 27, 2020 at 11:33
The problem is not NSW and Victoria, the problem in Sydney and Melbourne and the indoor lifestyle they live.
"Work interferes with living"

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Follow Up By: OzzieCruiser - Wednesday, May 27, 2020 at 14:50

Wednesday, May 27, 2020 at 14:50
Don't forget Blackwater and Emerald and the outdoor lifestyle they lead - had Covid19 in the area and didn't even know it until a death.
1
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Follow Up By: Members - Bow - Wednesday, May 27, 2020 at 15:26

Wednesday, May 27, 2020 at 15:26
I have lived in Blackwater, my money is on a FIFO worker has infected the town with the Chinese flu.
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Follow Up By: Member - FSH00 - Wednesday, May 27, 2020 at 16:03

Wednesday, May 27, 2020 at 16:03
From the local paper.

QUEENSLAND Health authorities say the Rockhampton nurse who tested positive for COVID-19 travelled to Blackwater just days before her results were returned.

According to The Australian reports, the nurse, who worked at North Rockhampton Nursing Centre, is the suspected source of infection for a 30-year-old miner who died yesterday.

The Blackwater man tested positive for COVID-19 during his autopsy yesterday afternoon.

He had many underlying health conditions and the coroner is working to establish whether he died of COVID-19 or another medical condition.

The Australian reports that the Rockhampton nurse travelled to Blackwater four days before she tested positive for the virus.

The publication claims the nurse will face further questioning from Queensland Health authorities today, and it is not known whether she had any contact with the miner.

News Queensland understands the nurse broke health orders when she drove to Blackwater for recreation before she was positively tested for the virus.

The 167km drive from Rockhampton to Blackwater is outside allowable travel distances and her trip was not for an essential purpose.

The nurse gave the information about her drive during an earlier interview with health authorities who had been undertaking contact tracing.

It's not believed the nurse and miner knew each other, but authorities are still looking into potential connections.

The man, who has been sick for around three weeks, had not worked since late last year because of a work injury, but his partner had been going to work while experiencing symptoms of COVID-19.

The Morning Bulletin is working to verify the information with Queensland Health.
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Follow Up By: Members - Bow - Wednesday, May 27, 2020 at 16:39

Wednesday, May 27, 2020 at 16:39
Rockhampton is the service centre for Blackwater.
Not sure of the facts but where did the nurse pick up the Chinese flu ?
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Follow Up By: Member - FSH00 - Wednesday, May 27, 2020 at 17:13

Wednesday, May 27, 2020 at 17:13
From the same paper.

QUEENSLAND'S anti-corruption body has referred the case of a Rockhampton aged care nurse, who returned to work while awaiting coronavirus test results, back to the local health service.

A Crime and Corruption Commission spokesman confirmed today it had been notified about the enrolled nurse's case but following an assessment had determined it was a matter for the Central Queensland Hospital and Health Service to deal with.



North Rockhampton Nursing Centre in Rockhampton. Photo: Levi Appleton, AAP.
North Rockhampton Nursing Centre in Rockhampton. Photo: Levi Appleton, AAP.


"It is important to note all allegations should be treated as unsubstantiated until a final outcome is reached," the spokesman said. "It is not appropriate for the CCC to comment further."

The woman is in isolation after her positive test on May 14.

coronaviruspromo


She was referred to the CCC for an alleged breach of public health orders introduced by Queensland Chief Health Officer Jeannette Young during the coronavirus pandemic.



Queensland Chief Health Officer Dr Jeannette Young. Photographer: Liam Kidston
Queensland Chief Health Officer Dr Jeannette Young. Photographer: Liam Kidston


Queensland Health has pledged an external inquiry into the case at the North Rockhampton Nursing Centre, which has been placed in lockdown.

The department is yet to announce who will head the inquiry or the terms of reference.

Tests on other staff and residents at the facility have so far been negative.

The infected nurse has been suspended pending the outcome of the independent investigation.

Queensland Health suspects she acquired the virus on a two-day trip to Brisbane to see an orthopaedic specialist on April 30-May 1 but investigations are continuing.

The Courier-Mail understands the nurse had minimal contact with residents at the aged care facility, working in a nurses' station behind glass.
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Follow Up By: Jarse - Wednesday, May 27, 2020 at 18:11

Wednesday, May 27, 2020 at 18:11
Bearing this in mind, perhaps all the bordering states should close their borders to QLD?

I was being sarcastic. That's as ridiculous and scientifically founded as the current border closures.
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Reply By: Shaker - Wednesday, May 27, 2020 at 18:53

Wednesday, May 27, 2020 at 18:53
Any idiot that thinks our Governments haven’t been doing the right thing or have overreacted, think of this,

Australia deaths 102
USA deaths 100,000 (almost)
Pro rata for population Australia Should be 7950 deaths!

Think about it!

Should we react to one death, answer that if you think it might be your wife, son, daughter, mother or father!

AnswerID: 631818

Follow Up By: Batt's - Wednesday, May 27, 2020 at 22:55

Wednesday, May 27, 2020 at 22:55
And yet I'm still amazed at how many people are complaining about being isolated and having limited travel restrictions in place they just don't get it or are that self centered and selfish to actually realize or comprehend these restrictions are here to help save all our lives which you only get one of them. If were in the deep of this for 12 months it's much better than 3 years for eg, waiting for a successful vaccine is the best option I like it up here with the sun on my face regardless of the current restrictions it's much better than being in a hospital bed waiting for an unknown outcome.
4
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Reply By: dean ( SA ) - Wednesday, May 27, 2020 at 20:54

Wednesday, May 27, 2020 at 20:54
Stephen you are fake news... SA govt is at fault and they have acknowledged it.
I agree with the border closures .
AnswerID: 631819

Follow Up By: Member - Stephen L (Clare SA) - Wednesday, May 27, 2020 at 22:16

Wednesday, May 27, 2020 at 22:16
What is fake about what I have said....it’s what has been reported on both the radio and tv
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Follow Up By: RMD - Thursday, May 28, 2020 at 09:28

Thursday, May 28, 2020 at 09:28
Stephen, similar to America where almost ALL the news leaving the USA is edited and sanctioned by the Democrats and ALMOST all news networks follow like Yankee sheep and sprout the same rubbish. Just because it is on TV and Papers here, which you have come to believe, doesn't mean it is mostly true. Yes to do with the situation but not what is really happening. The ABC here claim virtuousness and continually fact check other folk when a controversial item arises but are totally unable and severely incapacitated in being able to FACT CHECK themselves. They are our enemy!
1
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Follow Up By: Member - Stephen L (Clare SA) - Thursday, May 28, 2020 at 10:19

Thursday, May 28, 2020 at 10:19
Still not fake news RMD

There has just been a big newS conference with our health minister.....

More has come to light, yes we know the lady was coming into South Australia, but the first we know of it was when the lady rang from the Adelaide Airport to say she was here.

It now looks like a lot now comes back to the Victorian Health Authorities for firstly not testing her before she took that flight and not letting South Australian Authorities that she was on her way.

So to say it is totally South Australia’s fault is very wrong and the shift now goes back to Victoria to explain why they did not do the right thing.
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Follow Up By: Member - peter_mcc - Thursday, May 28, 2020 at 15:54

Thursday, May 28, 2020 at 15:54
SA have now admitted that they were told when she was coming:

"Due to an administrative oversight, we can confirm the relevant flight details involving an overseas traveller arriving in South Australia were provided to SA Health prior to their arrival," Dr Spurrier said.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-05-28/sa-backtracks-after-accusing-victoria-over-coronavirus-case/12294962
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FollowupID: 908154

Follow Up By: Member - Stephen L (Clare SA) - Thursday, May 28, 2020 at 16:04

Thursday, May 28, 2020 at 16:04
Thanks Peter for confirming that, as it looks like we we been given wrong and misleading information, and thanks for clearing it up.
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Reply By: Member - Boobook - Thursday, May 28, 2020 at 07:52

Thursday, May 28, 2020 at 07:52
Stephen,

I think you have been sucked in by the media hype.

Sure, one case sneaked into South Australia. But Truck drivers, miners, airline crew, etc come in and out every day without any testing.

Covid will be with us for years, possibly forever, are you proposing that the borders stay shut for years? I doubt it, in fact, I'd be willing to make a bet that the SA government and even proud South Australians like yourself will be promoting the virtues of SA, even begging and spending millions on tourism campaigns within a few weeks while the virus is still present in our society.

Actually I am getting annoyed at ( other ) communities who had "go away" protests and signs and even slashing tyres of visitors, now begging for tourists to visit their friendly little towns. What a selfish, small-minded attitude and any place that said stay away was heard clearly by me. I'll do that. Screw them.

The whole state's response to this has been appalling and small thinking. Australia has done a great job in general but the states leave a lot to be desired

If that person wasn't allowed into SA via Victoria, then none of this would have happened. It's not a state border issue, in this case SA triggered an international border issue. And you are advocating that a new case caused by SA incompetence be forced to stay in Vic despite every protocol and rule

And the media loves to flair up the differences in the various responses. Australia is in it together.
AnswerID: 631823

Follow Up By: RMD - Thursday, May 28, 2020 at 09:21

Thursday, May 28, 2020 at 09:21
SO true. One large media company who receives more then a $ Billion each year of taxpayer money is largely Australia's enemy and constantly rev up the population, often overrevved, purely to claim virtuous rights in their presentation and claiming it as a service while indoctrinating the rabble.
The media doesn't want you to realise on have knowledge of, "Truck drivers, miners, airline crew, etc come in and out every day without any testing" because it isn't that foot on the accelerator which they want you to see. They even claimed, via news headline, Australia picked a fight with Beijing by asking for an investigation. What nonsense, but mind bending for Aussies all the same, almost the same style of reply which happens from Communist countries when they are challenged. Who's side is the ABC really on?
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FollowupID: 908130

Follow Up By: HKB Electronics - Thursday, May 28, 2020 at 09:49

Thursday, May 28, 2020 at 09:49
Agree, press just love to blow things up, look how long the toilet roll episode went on for, the press loved easy news just play it up big and stir the public into a frenzy.

They will be hating to see the virus come to an end, they actually have to go out a dig up some real stories, oops sorry forgot, they just reprint other real reporters news don't they so probably won't worry them.
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Follow Up By: Member - Gordon B5 - Thursday, May 28, 2020 at 23:36

Thursday, May 28, 2020 at 23:36
RMD post 908130 You state Truck drivers,Miners,Airline crew etc. come in & out very day without any testing. Proof please. My son is FIFO WA not allowed to leave the state since this started. have to fill out 6 or 8 page questionnaire before flying back to mine and submit to blood test. Blood test gives a result in 2 Min. if you are sick with flu like symptoms. If positive not allowed to board plane & must go for further testing. That is how the contractor that came back from Bali was discovered not by Gov. but by Rio Tinto. Because he lied on the questionnaire he is permanently banned from Rio sites. That is not fake news. So the mining industry are on top of it. day shift not allowed to come in contact with night shift. Bus that picks workers from airport at mine is not allowed to take any one anywhere until it has been cleaned. If the mining companies can do this why not everyone else ?
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Follow Up By: Bazooka - Friday, May 29, 2020 at 00:35

Friday, May 29, 2020 at 00:35
"Australia's enemy". Roflmao. Don't let your unhealthy bias and anti-ABC obsession get in the way of reality RMD. Leaving aside the fact that you obviousy equate ABC current affairs with the ABC as a whole (it's a tiny part of the ABC's work as most know), you're tone deaf to the fact that without the ABC there would be little independent media in this country. Let me guess - you still check under your bed for commies at night and think Sky, Fox and other Murdoch media outlets are bastions of truth? We've talked about surveys on media credibility, integrity, trust etc (I'll let you guess who wins those year after year by the length of the straight), and enquiries into bias before so I won't repeat here. I'll simply ask you this - when exactly did the ABC become "Australia's enemy" and what examples do you have to back up your perverse view of that organisation?

Your lies about Daniel Andrews above and your fantasy about reporting from America suggest your answers will be well worth reading, if only for a bloody good laugh.
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Follow Up By: Jarse - Friday, May 29, 2020 at 04:38

Friday, May 29, 2020 at 04:38
Gordon,
I am airline crew (not that I'm doing much flying at the moment), and I can tell you there is no testing of flight crew for covid in Australian ports, except Canberra, and all they're doing is the temperature scan.

The means by which it's being dealt with at the moment is by mandatory quarantine, but only in some states, and only under certain circumstances.
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Follow Up By: qldcamper - Friday, May 29, 2020 at 08:24

Friday, May 29, 2020 at 08:24
Jarse,
Good on you for speaking up.
Even though you are in the industry and have personally witnessed what is really happening, the armchair experts will either ignore you or argue with you.
Hope your industry picks up again soon.


3
FollowupID: 908175

Follow Up By: Banjo (WA) - Friday, May 29, 2020 at 08:40

Friday, May 29, 2020 at 08:40
Re the ABC's Fact check

(The headline) Craig Kelly says Australia had more rainfall in the first 20 years of this century than the first 20 years of last century. Is he correct?

(The Verdict) Mr Kelly's claim is flawed.

(The Fact) Data collected by the Bureau of Meteorology shows an increase in Australia's annual average rainfall for the first two decades of this century compared to the years 1900 to 1919.

All the above was on the Fact Check site! ABC Fact Check
The reason it was 'flawed' is that apparently some areas didn't get more rainfall!

Skewing the truth is OK , not only by the ABC , but by the University RMIT.
1
FollowupID: 908176

Follow Up By: Jarse - Friday, May 29, 2020 at 10:55

Friday, May 29, 2020 at 10:55
Thanks for the good wishes, qldcamper. I just hope I have a job at the end of this. I find it amusing when people try to argue something that's factual :D

Yes, crew are at higher risk from passengers that might be carrying. I was forced into 14 days quarantine at home because we had a covid positive passenger on my last flight before the shutdown. That was 22nd March. The airlines are doing a lot in the background to minimise risk to passengers and crew. You'll never read about it in the media, because they are just getting on with the job.

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FollowupID: 908179

Follow Up By: Bazooka - Friday, May 29, 2020 at 12:14

Friday, May 29, 2020 at 12:14
Onya Banjo. So your position appears to be that because you don't accept this instance of the ABC's Fact Check, therefore the whole organisation is biased/unfair/corrupt/lacking in integrity? Sounds reasonable to me.

Cherry picking is a Kelly staple and it seems you've taken the burley if not the whole hook, line and sinker. Kelly - a typical climate denier - wants gullible, complacent and uninformed people to draw certain conclusions about climate change based on a few random statistics, while completely ignoring masses of other information and data which shows clearly that the planet is warming due to human activity. From memory Kelly's also thrown in bushfire numbers and the fact that some Pacific islands have increased in size in an attempt to both muddy the waters and to suck in the uninformed. All red herrings, akin to a doctor only taking notice of peripheral symptoms like a sweaty forehead while his patient bleeds to death from a gaping wound in his leg.

IF, and that's a big if, you're actually interested in climate change data and discussion I suggest you give the Kelly's of this world - and the Murdoch media - a very wide berth. Have a look at SkepticalScience.Com where a whole stack of denier furphies are debunked and aspects of the science summarised in easy to understand terms. Then you could graduate to reading the IPCC summary reports (a small subset of the highly detailed, complex , and lengthy reports put together by experts from across the globe). After that you could read what climate modelling ACTUALLY says about global temperatures, drought, rainfall, storms etc - regularity, intensity, etc. If you want specific Australian information, those other commies the BoM put out a state of the climate report annually.

Climate change isn't about short term or specific local data. It's about longer term trends across the whole planet and encompasses the air, the land and the oceans. Irrespective of whether people can accept the science, the move to renewables is not just good for future generations who won't have as much fossil fuel at their disposal, it's also smart strategically for a country which relies on overseas countries for supply and delivery of most of our oil.
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FollowupID: 908188

Follow Up By: Member - Gordon B5 - Sunday, May 31, 2020 at 12:37

Sunday, May 31, 2020 at 12:37
Jarse, Hey Mate what are you saying that what I've posted is incorrect.
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Follow Up By: Jarse - Monday, Jun 01, 2020 at 06:31

Monday, Jun 01, 2020 at 06:31
Hi Gordon,
Not at all. My response was to part of your post requesting proof that flight crew were operating interstate flights without health checks (which we are).

My company is about to start freight flights between Sydney and Perth in a couple of B737's with the seats removed. Crewed by 3 pilots (one acting as loadmaster) who still won't need health checks to do this. Hopefully I'll get to crew one or two of these flights (although I don't fancy back of the clock work).
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Follow Up By: Banjo (WA) - Monday, Jun 01, 2020 at 09:42

Monday, Jun 01, 2020 at 09:42
Wow, Bazooka. I must have hit a nerve.

All I said was that in this particular instance the ABC weren't honest in their endeavour to denigrate one of their enemy.

Banjo
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Follow Up By: Bazooka - Monday, Jun 01, 2020 at 11:32

Monday, Jun 01, 2020 at 11:32
I've lost my reply which discussed lying by omission and climate change in some detail twice now Banjo, can't be bothered redoing it. Suffice to say that I don't accept your conclusion about the fact check - Kelly's statement was flawed because it attempted to mislead, cherry picked and took data out of context - and I find your final statement about denigration and "their enemy" more a reflection of you own bias than anything else. Nor do I accept what you appear to be broadly implying about the ABC by bringing up this one example.

Do you have better examples which show that the ABC is not doing its job properly in general, or is "Australia's enemy" as was laughably suggested above? Presumably that was what prompted your own post? The ABC is an imperfect organisation - why anyone would expect it to be otherwise is a mystery - but as surveys and awards show it's head and shoulders above the alternatives, as unfortunate as that is. There's great irony in the fact that many people who swallow Murdoch media disinformation and fluff continually find fault with the national broadcaster.

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FollowupID: 908276

Reply By: Banjo (WA) - Thursday, May 28, 2020 at 08:37

Thursday, May 28, 2020 at 08:37
I for one would like an investigation into the reporting of Coronavirus deaths.

For instance how many people died purely from the virus, rather than those who died with the virus.

eg I might have an abscess on my leg but die following a heart attack. It seems to me that the abscess could be recorded as the cause of death if all of a sudden abscess's were regarded as evil?
AnswerID: 631824

Follow Up By: Dean K3 - Thursday, May 28, 2020 at 13:40

Thursday, May 28, 2020 at 13:40
Depends what other pre existing conditions especially cardio preliminary patient has prior to contracting virus.

Not many deaths from Golden staph a severe viral infection get mentioned in media just died from complications.

If anybody wanted to be very scared of any virus look up Ebola yet they manage to contain it in a 3rd world country with minimal transmission
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Follow Up By: Member - Outback Gazz - Thursday, May 28, 2020 at 13:56

Thursday, May 28, 2020 at 13:56
Agree on the investigation thing Banjo - approximately half the poor people who have died in Australia were in nursing homes and with an average age of 82. One poor old lady was 97 and the cause of death was registered as Covid-19 !

Why are people in nursing homes - not for an adventurous holiday I'm guessing.

Tragic for those who have died and sad for the family and friends but Banjo's second sentence is on the money.

Happy and safe travels - albeit limited

Cheers

Gazz
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Follow Up By: Member - Boobook - Thursday, May 28, 2020 at 15:15

Thursday, May 28, 2020 at 15:15
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Follow Up By: OzzieCruiser - Thursday, May 28, 2020 at 16:20

Thursday, May 28, 2020 at 16:20
Golden Staph is not a viral but is a bacterial infection and treated by antibiotics - so little point comparing it with Covid 19
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Follow Up By: Member - David M (SA) - Thursday, May 28, 2020 at 16:36

Thursday, May 28, 2020 at 16:36
Sure people mourning the death of a loved family member will get a good laugh out of that one Boobook.
Dave.
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Follow Up By: Bazooka - Friday, May 29, 2020 at 01:27

Friday, May 29, 2020 at 01:27
Numbers across the globe are unreliable Banjo, for many reasons - political, lack of proper and accurate recording, the stress on health systems etc. Some countries have almost certainly under-reported while others like Belgium have gone the other way and reported any death possibly related to the virus as being a Covid-19 fatality. They will (all) probably be revised at some point down the track.

Statisticians are already working on creating more credible/reliable numbers based on the usual death rate for a country (statistically normalised) and current rates. These also won't be highly accurate but they'll be a lot closer to reality than the official reporting in some countries. I think it was John Hopkins Uni which mentioned a brief study on numbers in 11 countries recently. Recorded deaths from Covid-19 were about 77,000 whereas the statistically-derived number suggested 122,000 was more likely. It will be years before we have "good" numbers and analysis of what went wrong in some countries and what worked to contain the spread elsewhere.
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Reply By: RMD - Thursday, May 28, 2020 at 19:53

Thursday, May 28, 2020 at 19:53
Stephen.
Why has SA chief health officer now apologised to Victoria after the Covid case and emails you speak of.?
AnswerID: 631834

Follow Up By: Member - Stephen L (Clare SA) - Thursday, May 28, 2020 at 20:39

Thursday, May 28, 2020 at 20:39
She did so as there was a bungle in reading emails and I would say heads could roll.

It will not happen again in the very near future, as our Premier has now banned any compassionate visits into South Australia.

Like he said it could this is how clusters can so easily start.
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Reply By: Mark C9 - Friday, May 29, 2020 at 08:19

Friday, May 29, 2020 at 08:19
Thousands of people cross the nsw/qld border everyday
I'm really surprised that there have been no outbreaks (that we know of) from those crossing.
The police just wave everyone thru displaying the “A” entry pass. I know a bloke who pasted a blank piece of A4 paper in his windscreen as a test. He was just waved thru

Remember, anyone will be allowed to enter as long as they have the “A” pass displayed. No checks are made of those applying for the pass. You just complete the form and are given the A pass
There are ABSOLUTELY NO CHECKS MADE ON THOSE PASSING THRU THE CHECKPOINT. NONE

AnswerID: 631840

Follow Up By: axle - Friday, May 29, 2020 at 09:28

Friday, May 29, 2020 at 09:28
Just another bungle mate, and a bad one at that!


Axle.
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Reply By: HKB Electronics - Friday, May 29, 2020 at 11:04

Friday, May 29, 2020 at 11:04
Personally I can understand why some states closed their borders, I thought Vic should have done the same but I can see it was a bit impractical.

The reality is though how long can the borders remain closed, you may think it is a very good idea at the moment but wait until the crunch comes. The goverment has to repay the huge amount of money they are currently borrowing, they have warned the hit is to come and it will not be good but people have their heads in the sand as usual. The states and federal governments are going to have huge short falls in their budgets. Many businesses are not going to recover, a lot on present goverment payments, some getting paid more than the were as employees are eventually going to have them cut off and no jobs to go back to.

Reality is in a few months with or without a vaccine states will be begging travelers to visit them and spend money there. They will have little income, they will be cutting services and most likely taxes will need to be increased. As Trump said the cure may well be worse than the disease. If you disagree then what is your theory as to where the money is going to come from to repay the debts the goverment is mounting up, cover the loss of income from failed businesses and then there is China now stopping purchasing Australian products. Don't also forget due to losses in the stock market as world finances crash a lot of retirees have probably opted to stop their pensions from super schemes for the time being, they can't keep this up forever. If they have to start drawing on capital then you may end up with a lot more on the age pension, more drain on the goverment coffers.

It is unlikely a vaccine is going to arrive in the near future so it will most likely be control the spread of the virus until the whole population has been exposed and how long will that take, I read so far around 7000 have been exposed I, if they manage to keep the infection rate the same it will only take around 1666 years for heard immunity to be achieved.

Then there is the question who is going to travel? I'm hesitant to set off even when the borders open, I'm not in a dangerous category group but many have died who weren't. We have been looking at where we might go and presently thinking if we do decide to travel then it will most likely be remote keeping away towns and caravan parks etc, mainly camping remotely. Discussions with friends indicate the same and I suspect a lot with the money and time to travel will be thinking the same. The longer this goes on it will eventually become a case of do you remain indoors for the remainder of your life or throw the dice and see if survive the virus and get back to a normal way of life?

Reality is in a few months time states, businesses and workers who still have a job and want to keep it will be hoping tourism picks up, your problem is then going to be convincing the grey headed nomads that it is safe for them to travel and visit.

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Follow Up By: Frank P (NSW) - Friday, May 29, 2020 at 11:59

Friday, May 29, 2020 at 11:59
Good post, HKB.

Like you, our travel plans will revolve around self-sufficient camping in relatively isolated locations. Trouble is, I think everyone will be looking for the same.

I think it will tend to be just like when beaches and parks got opened, with social distancing provisos, and then people flocked to them in such numbers they had to be closed again.

From 1st June in NSW camping is allowed, but shared facilities are not allowed to be used. In Nat Parks where there are toilets, because they don't have the staff to police the non-use, campgrounds with toilets remain closed. Primitive, self-sufficient camping is allowed in places where there are no shared facilities.

So with everyone desperate to get out and about I can forsee the proliferation of the bush butterflies :-(

Caravan parks can take people into self-contained cabins, but amenities blocks have to remain closed. Not sure if that means they can open sites to self-contained vans. Logic would say yes, but I don't know what the rule is.

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Follow Up By: HKB Electronics - Friday, May 29, 2020 at 12:55

Friday, May 29, 2020 at 12:55
Hi Frank,

I believe I read self contained vans allowed on sites, ensuite sites also available if you game to use them, question mark there is how well will the parks clean them? Then of course there is all those with huge vans with ensuites that don't want to dirty their own facilities so will take whatever ensuite suites that are available if they can fit their self contained vans on them.

Head to the dirt where most caravans fear to tread and find a nice spot by a river with just the wild life for company, that's if you can get a permit to travel into those places. Then yes the more lazy ones doing it the more you have to clean up after them. That's one good thing about permit required destinations, if you going serious off road requiring careful planning and permits there seems to be less poo tickets around.
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Follow Up By: Member - Rowdy6032 (WA) - Friday, May 29, 2020 at 17:05

Friday, May 29, 2020 at 17:05
As an example of the financial hit that we should expect WA has lost 3 billion in the last quarter and that is expected to reach 12 billion over the next 15 months. A recession is anticipated.

If it wasn't for mining and agriculture the state would be a write off.

All states will be in the same boat. It can't continue at that level no matter what your thoughts may be. The time is overdue to get people back to work with appropriate safety issues addressed.

The elderly and others in poor health will still have to take appropriate measures to protect themselves. If you think we can hang on until a vaccine is found you are deluding yourself.
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Reply By: Alloy c/t - Saturday, May 30, 2020 at 10:57

Saturday, May 30, 2020 at 10:57
The real problem is 'unnecessary' travel and not following the rules , the only borders that need to be SHUT are international , has no one on here ever read the Australian Constitution ....
AnswerID: 631861

Follow Up By: Ron N - Saturday, May 30, 2020 at 13:10

Saturday, May 30, 2020 at 13:10
The Australian Constitution is quite vague in many areas, and was made so on purpose.

The great fallback provisions of our Constitution is that anyone can challenge any part of the Constitution through the Courts, and initiate changes to the Constitution that they believe are needed - to update or clarify Constitutional requirements, according to the times and events.

The judges will then deliberate and rule on whether the changes are needed.

This is the great part of our Constitution, unlike the American Constitution, which has idiotic "unalienable" parts that can never be changed - such as the "right" to carry firearms in the U.S.

However, the bottom line in our Constitution is that the Govt of the day is empowered to take whatever steps are needed to protect National Security. The PM has absolute power in this arena.

Originally, the definition of National Security was about protecting ourselves from attacks by militaristic foreign countries intent on takeover of Australia - but since that time, National Security has been enlarged to cover protection of our population, as well as our country.

There are dozens of National Security related Acts and legislation and laws.
Border controls are an important part of National Security - on many fronts, including the health of our population.

But any severe actions taken on National Security issues must be tempered by national discussion, agreement and consultation.

However, when a rapidly-forming major threat presents itself, senior politicians must act decisively and quickly.
Morrison and his associates and the State Premiers have done their best when presented with this current major virus threat, and the largest part of their rapid decision-making has been commendable.

However, as with all Govt moves and legislative changes and orders, it's important that we ensure that they are reasonable, not excessive, and enforced with sensible restraint - and are removed as soon as the threat has subdued.

I think a lot of the Police have been taken aback by the rapid response needed to new laws and legislation, and were caught out by needing to respond in a manner that was sensible and practical, without treating everyone like a criminal.

The need to call upon the military to serve on front-line checkpoints was a little over-the-top I thought, although I reckon this was probably more of a Police staffing issue, than any other angle.

Cheers, Ron.
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Reply By: Macquarie - Monday, Jun 01, 2020 at 21:44

Monday, Jun 01, 2020 at 21:44
The state borders should never have been closed in the first place, it was only the international border that needed closure. The state closures have inflicted unnecessary headship and disruption on their citizens for minimal if any gain.
If the current bunch of inept and inexperienced premiers are good at one thing it is knee jerk reactions .
Leaders are required to lead not wander around bleating like timid sheep
AnswerID: 631935

Follow Up By: Member - Stephen L (Clare SA) - Monday, Jun 01, 2020 at 22:41

Monday, Jun 01, 2020 at 22:41
I will only comment for South Australia.

With our closed border, we have not had any cases of COVID 19 for around 6 weeks, with the latest exception of that lady from Victoria via the UK.

The general public in SA back our Premier, with the results speaking for themselves.

If you watched Australian Story tonight on the ABC, state borders were closed way back in 1918 to stop the spread of the deadly Spanish Flu ., so it is nothing new
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Follow Up By: qldcamper - Tuesday, Jun 02, 2020 at 08:02

Tuesday, Jun 02, 2020 at 08:02
Macquarie,
If you saw 4 or 5 vehicles the same model as yours with the same radiator hose blown within weeks, would you fit a new one to your car just in case, or would you drive off into a remote desert with the original one and risk un necessary deaths.
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Follow Up By: HKB Electronics - Tuesday, Jun 02, 2020 at 11:18

Tuesday, Jun 02, 2020 at 11:18
Stepehen your not handling it better in SA, your just leaving the hard work up to the other states, past 5 days for VIC and NSW cases from overseas we have to deal with:

VIC

2, 4, 2, 3, 0

NSW

2, 0, 3, 3, 6

If you had an international airport like the bigger states you wouldn't be sitting on your high horse sprouting off about how good SA is. As I wrote before, it's a pity when SA closed the borders that VIC didn't close the borders to returning SA residents and shipping of goods and supplies also.
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Follow Up By: George_M - Tuesday, Jun 02, 2020 at 12:23

Tuesday, Jun 02, 2020 at 12:23
As of yesterday there were 20 COVID-19 patients in Australian hospitals. Three of these patients were in intensive care. Across the entire country!

There will be further outbreaks as the economy opens again, all of which I am confident will be promptly identified, tested, traced and treated by the authorities.

The Federal medical authority has stated that there is no logical reason to keep State borders closed. I agree with this advice.

For certain States not to support the Federal advice is simply small minded, parochial grandstanding.
Come any closer and I'll rip your throat out!

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Follow Up By: Member - Stephen L (Clare SA) - Tuesday, Jun 02, 2020 at 14:15

Tuesday, Jun 02, 2020 at 14:15
It’s not hard work HKB, borders should be closed to all outside planes as well.

If we stopped planes, we would have a very good chance of stopping it ripping through our society.
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Follow Up By: Member - Stephen L (Clare SA) - Tuesday, Jun 02, 2020 at 14:17

Tuesday, Jun 02, 2020 at 14:17
George, it’s not grandstanding, it’s keeping your citizens safe.

Watch Australian Story from the other night, State borders were closed back in 1918, so it’s nothing new to keep people safe and stopping the spread of killer diseases
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Follow Up By: George_M - Tuesday, Jun 02, 2020 at 14:47

Tuesday, Jun 02, 2020 at 14:47
With respect, Stephen, this is not 1918. Medical testing, tracking and treatment has moved on a little since then.

In addition, COVID-19 has never become entrenched in the community as did the Spanish Flu: nor is it likely to.

This thread started with a whinge about those dastardly Victorians sending a single infected person to SA....which, in the end, turned out to be a stuff-up by the SA health authorities.

Now how about this: The NT Chief Medical Officer has granted “More than 11,000...quarantine exemptions”, where a traveller from another State “...did not have to go into mandatory hotel quarantine on arrival...”.

This is the very same NT Chief Medical Officer who sits on the national CMO expert group advising the National Cabinet (where her Chief Minister, and your Premier sits) that border closures are ineffective.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-05-25/nt-coronavirus-quarantine-exemption-natasha-fyles/12282288

I guess we’ll just have to agree to disagree – and wait for Clive and Pauline to sort it out.

Come any closer and I'll rip your throat out!

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Follow Up By: HKB Electronics - Tuesday, Jun 02, 2020 at 15:56

Tuesday, Jun 02, 2020 at 15:56
Stephen,

If you ground the planes then you need to ban shipping too, as just about all technology, consumer products, building materials, fuel, medical supplies we use come from overseas how do you propose we do that?
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Follow Up By: Jarse - Tuesday, Jun 02, 2020 at 16:57

Tuesday, Jun 02, 2020 at 16:57
Further to HKB's post - it's lunacy to stop aircraft altogether. I can think of 4 critical things that will adversely affect the closed states:

1. Nuclear medicine - radioactive medicine is produced in that bad bogey state of NSW. The majority of it has a very short life, and yes - it MUST be shipped by air around the country, and to our nearby international neighbours, so that cancer patients and others can receive life saving treatment.

Should we close state borders to all aircraft?

2. Human organs for transplant and blood products for transfusion/infusion. Once again, life saving and needs to be transported by air.

Should we close state borders to all aircraft?

3. Patient transfers - moving ambulatory patients around the country for operations and medical appointments.

Should we close state borders to all aircraft?

4. Precious metals and currency - Yes, like it or not, many millions travel by air to keep our economy going, without which it all stops.

To give you an idea of the scale of the above 4 items (and I'm sure there are more), almost every flight I operated (when it was business as usual) had one or more of the above 4 items notified to me. Particularly of a medical nature.

To stop this is crazy!

Closing state borders was nothing but unnecessary, parochial and political grandstanding by the responsible state premiers against the advice of the Chief Medical Officer. Pure and simple.
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Follow Up By: qldcamper - Tuesday, Jun 02, 2020 at 18:53

Tuesday, Jun 02, 2020 at 18:53
Agree with everything you said jarse up until the last paragraph.
The borders being closed for me is costing me a small fortune but i believe it is necessary.
The media are trying to scare us with "the second wave" of the virus. Who are they trying to kid, the first wave hasnt hit Australia yet.
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