Urban Cowboys to face tough 4WD driving test

Submitted: Tuesday, Jun 22, 2004 at 15:57
ThreadID: 14015 Views:1866 Replies:15 FollowUps:5
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Article in todays SMH that could affect most of us............and I think it's a matter of when not if.


And of course Mr Scrubber had to be asked to spew something up.........
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Reply By: Patrol22 (Queanbeyan - Tuesday, Jun 22, 2004 at 16:06

Tuesday, Jun 22, 2004 at 16:06
Mr Scruby says

The chief executive of the Pedestrian Council of Australia, Harold Scruby, has been pushing for special licences for all four-wheel-drives over two tonnes for several years.

"What they really are are trucks made to look like cars," Mr Scruby said. "People who drive trucks don't have standard licences, so why should drivers of LandCruisers and Pajeros have standard licenses?"

He obviously doesn't understand the NSW licencing system. A person with a 'C' Class licence in NSW (basic car licence) is licenced to drive

"Vehicle seating up to 12 adults, to 4.5 tonnes GVM, Tractor, Implement"

So there are lots of "truck" drivers out there operating on this licence only. I understand that in other states there is a requirement for an endorsement for trucks, tractors etc.

I agree however it is only a matter of when.
AnswerID: 64425

Follow Up By: Rosscoe - Tuesday, Jun 22, 2004 at 16:22

Tuesday, Jun 22, 2004 at 16:22
My understanding that Mr Scruby is the President of a council of one!
FollowupID: 325491

Follow Up By: Member - Pesty (SA) - Tuesday, Jun 22, 2004 at 20:05

Tuesday, Jun 22, 2004 at 20:05
You took the words right out of my mouth Rosscoe, and a wanker as well!
FollowupID: 325514

Reply By: Member - Chris M (QLD) - Tuesday, Jun 22, 2004 at 16:25

Tuesday, Jun 22, 2004 at 16:25
What a load of rubbish. Perhaps the persons involved should spend more time evaluating the statistics rather than focusing on an ever increasing group of mostly sensible drivers.
AnswerID: 64429

Reply By: gonebush - Tuesday, Jun 22, 2004 at 16:38

Tuesday, Jun 22, 2004 at 16:38
Spot on Chris.......

The article quotes the Australian Transport Safety Bureau (ATSB) report. That report is here http://www.atsb.gov.au/road/mgraph/mgraph11/index.cfm

In the paragraph below the quoted 85% increase in fatal crashes, the ATSB report says ..........."Australian Bureau of Statistics (ABS) data suggest that this increase in fatal 4WD crashes may be due to an increase in 4WD activity, rather than to any decrease in vehicle safety." It goes on to analyse that the number of kms travelled by 4WDs has increased by 88% during the period 95 -98 alone and the number of kilometres travelled by 4WDs, as a proportion of all vehicle kilometres travelled, also increased by 80% from 95 - 98 alone................therefore whilst the raw number of fatal crashes has increased by 85% in 90 - 98, the incidence rate of fatal crashes involving 4Wds per km travelled in fact has decreased in the period 90 -98...........you can bet that fact won't get reported!! And the fact that passenger cars and light trucks had slightly lower fatal crash involvement rates than 4WDs.

You can always quote only part of the statistics to completely alter the truth and serve an ulterior motive.

AnswerID: 64432

Reply By: Rob! - Tuesday, Jun 22, 2004 at 16:45

Tuesday, Jun 22, 2004 at 16:45
I think some people raise these issues simply for the feeling of self importance rather then safety. The article states that,

"Analysis published last year by the Australian Transport Safety Bureau found that over the nine years to 1998 the number of fatal four-wheel drive crashes rose 85 per cent"

Thats's not even double. While during the same nine years the number of 4WD's has far more then doubled. Resulting in the conculsion, from the limited statistics that I have, that 4WD are now responsible for a smaller percenatge of road deaths then they were nine years ago.

Also, driving a small Barina or one of those Merc Smart cars is far different to driving a V8 Falcon, but you still use the same license. Should we have a different licence for every type of car?

Like I said, Mr Scrubber, if that is his real name, seems to have a need to get his name in the press and I feel that he is using this as his podium.

Perhaps he could be more productive in promoting safety for padestrians by addressing ignorant drivers instead of 4wd bashing.

AnswerID: 64433

Follow Up By: Rob! - Tuesday, Jun 22, 2004 at 17:04

Tuesday, Jun 22, 2004 at 17:04
correction to my previous answer after looking at the stats, the number of 4wd has increased only by about 70% (from 12% to 17% of all vehicles) but they now travel further, as mentioned above.
However, the stats also mention, which destroys Scrubber's arguement, that -
"The proportion of 4WD crashes involving pedestrians (11 per cent) was almost half the proportion of passenger car crashes involving pedestrians (20 per cent). "

So in fact it is the opposite of Scrubber accuses 4WD of.

FollowupID: 325494

Reply By: Aston - Tuesday, Jun 22, 2004 at 17:45

Tuesday, Jun 22, 2004 at 17:45
After analysing the antics of He'r Scruby

I've come up with an even better name than "scrubby"

what about Scru-ball.

Which is probably closer to the truth.

Cheers Aston
AnswerID: 64447

Follow Up By: Allan Mac (VIC) - Tuesday, Jun 22, 2004 at 22:29

Tuesday, Jun 22, 2004 at 22:29
how about just plain ol D***head
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Reply By: Member - Jeff M (WA) - Tuesday, Jun 22, 2004 at 18:31

Tuesday, Jun 22, 2004 at 18:31
Weights & Capacities MITSUBISHI PAJERO NJ GLS (LWB) 3.5

Kerb mass (kg) 1950

Hmmm... Well Mr Scrub what are you going to do about that...

My Surf only weighs in at 1750Kg Tare. Bugger eh.

Anyway, Give me any test, I've done driver training, I drive over 500kms a week in the city, bring it on! Just tell me how much extra money I have to give to the government for this test, and license and up keep....
AnswerID: 64459

Reply By: Member - Pesty (SA) - Tuesday, Jun 22, 2004 at 20:07

Tuesday, Jun 22, 2004 at 20:07
Havent erad the article but Today tonight had a segment on tonight about the same thing. More revenue raising!!!
AnswerID: 64482

Reply By: andyg - Tuesday, Jun 22, 2004 at 20:46

Tuesday, Jun 22, 2004 at 20:46
Glad to see some other 4wders in other states getting there fare share of being bashed .
there was talk of baning bullbars on vechiles in the metro area down here and since the weekend banning learners from driving v8s whats next banning learners from driving 4wds.

AnswerID: 64492

Reply By: Truckster (Vic) - Tuesday, Jun 22, 2004 at 21:12

Tuesday, Jun 22, 2004 at 21:12
Ive got my permit for a road train, Hazardous Materials, cars, and bike...

am I going to have to be taught how to drive?
AnswerID: 64506

Follow Up By: Mad Dog (Victoria) - Tuesday, Jun 22, 2004 at 21:33

Tuesday, Jun 22, 2004 at 21:33
Yes but you haven't got a permit for a little car. Those bloodly things are dangerous having a bad habit of zipping in the way of trucks.
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Reply By: Wayne (NSW) - Tuesday, Jun 22, 2004 at 21:48

Tuesday, Jun 22, 2004 at 21:48
I have no problem with a 4WD licence, you must have a licence to ride a motor bike, but what about to tow a caravan or a horse float. I think a licence to drive a V8 or WRX would also be a good idea. If they do it for all vehicles then the cost could be kept to a minumin.
Beter still what about a Super licence that will alow you to drive any thing except any thing bigger than a 4ton truck or a motor bike. We could call it a gold licence.

Must have been a slow news day.

AnswerID: 64522

Reply By: Member - Tim&jan - Tuesday, Jun 22, 2004 at 22:13

Tuesday, Jun 22, 2004 at 22:13
bring it on just anouther licence for them to make some more monee out of me but they better hang on when we do the test?
AnswerID: 64530

Reply By: Wizard1 - Wednesday, Jun 23, 2004 at 13:16

Wednesday, Jun 23, 2004 at 13:16
If pedestrians didn't jay walk they wouldn't get hit by any sort of vehicle let alone a 4WD.

If they change the licensing for light trucks then there goes the light truck rental market for those poor folk that move house on the cheap, etc.

I do, however, believe we should have nation wide licensing for the towing of certain size caravans as well as some mobile homes.

If you consider the all up size and weight of some van rigs it frieghtens me when I see these rank amatures on the road and the havoc they cause. There is nothing stopping anyone purchasing a 4wd and van (lets say 25 - 30 ft) with a combined weight of up to 4 tonnes and taking off around this country without the legal requirement to see if the driver is actually competant to do so.

I'll admit I wasbleepscared when I started towing my van, paranoid about where i was on the road, etc. After a few years you get the hang of it, but that doesn't justify those motorist that borrow or hire a van for Christmas and hoot on down the highway with mum and the kids without the right setup or training.

I also beleive there should be mandatory inspections of tow setups, etc to ensure they meet the legal requirements for tow ball weight, vehicle tow capacity, etc.

Darwin NT

AnswerID: 64612

Reply By: Sand Man (SA) - Wednesday, Jun 23, 2004 at 14:09

Wednesday, Jun 23, 2004 at 14:09
Re SMH Article.......
"Four-wheel-drive owners should have a special licence and be made to sit off-road driving skill tests before taking to the city streets, a federal parliamentary report recommends."

This is normal Parliamentary Mumbo-Jumbo, be it State, or Federal and is typical of special committees set up to investigate most things !

What possible significance could off-road driving skills have with driving on City streets anyway ???

They obviously don't know what off-road driving is about.

Sand Man

I'm diagonally parked in a parallel Universe!

My Profile  My Blog  My Position  Send Message

AnswerID: 64639

Reply By: Diesel Do - Wednesday, Jun 23, 2004 at 14:44

Wednesday, Jun 23, 2004 at 14:44
About Licenses and competence...

I used to travel and drive (on business - had to have a car) in the US. After a 20+ hour flight, get off plane, pick up baggage and get rental car keys from desk.

"Can I have your license please sir?"

Hand over NT drivers license. They never heard of NT, not even sure which country.

"Here's your keys sir, have a nice day"

Take off from the airport carpark straight onto the freeway.

Never driven on the RH side of the road before, controls are all over the place - even after spending 15 minutes in the car park familiarising. Rain/sleet and a little snow, dark, traffic everywhere. Including in the boot - felt like. Water gushing off the wheels of B doubles as they rush past on both sides. Hotel is 30 miles away.

Foot shaking so hard on the accelerator difficult to concentrate - ok so switch on the cruise. Now which exit is it? Which lane should I be in? Street signs are in some sort of code - am I travelling north or west or what - I knew when I started out from the airport, but I've got no idea anymore. If I'm on the speed limit, why is everyone tearing past me?

Can hardly see through the windscreen - getting a bit tough. Lemme out of here!

This happened to me - though on the good trips it wasn't raining or snowing.

What happens to 1,000's of O/S people when they come here and drive on our roads? Do we check any better than Avis/whoever do in the US?

Surely there are more important issues to worry about than whether a 4wd can complete a slalom course - regardless of who is driving it. Seems to me that there are gaps in our road rules you could drive a 4wd through. Maybe I'll be roasted for saying so, but perhaps it's time to have a good look at all aspects of vehicle licensing and apply some common sense!

AnswerID: 64645

Reply By: Member - Nick K (VIC) - Thursday, Jun 24, 2004 at 14:32

Thursday, Jun 24, 2004 at 14:32
Boys & Girls. I think we have all missed the point. This has nothing to do with driver safety or bull dust lets protect and train the population. This has more to do about raising revenue for the politician to spend on their trips overseas investigating possums and other animals crawling up walls. With the increased number of 4WD drives on the road this is a perfect oprtunity for both state and fedral goverments to make money off our backs.

AnswerID: 64859

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