EO Traveller: exporting waypoints, distances and times from a trek.

Thanks TrevorDavid, yes a few work arounds. Even if you could select the text to copy and paste it would be a help.

The problem is, even having purchased the app and the lastest maps you can't download any files back off the the EOT web page that belongs to you . I don't see why you have to be a payed member to download these personal files. Sure you can load them in to your device if you have an internet connection But that's about it. I'm sure there many out there that just want the app and map without a membership.

Maurice,

You purchase the App & maps, being a member gives additional access.

Fair enough I reckon.

Regards

TrevorDavid

TrevorDavid. I'm not asking for free membership . But don't you find it strange . I load my .gpx file up to my profile on EOT then in 6 months time I don't have the original file then can't get it back unless I pay a membership fee.

Actually no I don’t, load it a second time if you want it again, why should they store it for you?


Just my thoughts, don’t want to start an argument.


Regards

TrevorDavid

I agree with maurice b. IMHO it is your data and having created it and/or uploaded it is your right to modify it and download it within data limits. I recently spent six weeks on the road thinking when I got home I could simply download my track for my own enjoyment. Now I feel I am over a barrel to pay more. I am not much interested in being a member for any other reason. Just give me my data! I will go without if forced to pay more.

* I have used the WIKILOC app to records tracks and I regularly download my track data.
* I have used the aprs.fi system and can download my data and it is stored online for years.
* Google gives me my location data if I request without requiring an extra payment.

I read several reviews on Exploroz and decided to buy it instead of the HEMA app. Now I wished I have looked more closely at HEMA. I don't find ExplorOz has an intuitive user interface. It requires a lot of manual reading to do tasks that should be "follow your nose" stuff. For example, the "snap a photo" icon in WIKILOC automatically creates a pin on the current location and straight away opens the camera. A picture tell a thousand words and is a great way to document a trip. When traveling you do not have time to follow the protracted ExplorOz process of create a PIN then select the PIN, then find the image on the device and add it to the PIN.

I find the road/track types to varied to remember and then they change with function. We have all been using paper maps with well developed road types styles. HEMA style you could call it. If you are going to have all these different styles at least provide a popup legend.

When planning a trip, how good would be to have an overlay with mileage numbers printed between towns as the paper maps do. ExplorOz has no simple ruler system to measure between A and B. Once again it appears to be the protracted process of creating pins, and so on. It is easy to see the "as the crow flies" distance to the next selected POI, but that is it. If I want to estimate distances I put down the tablet with ExplorOz and pick up the paper map and add up the numbers between towns.

The place description where I traveled in North West Queensland and the NT are mostly blank and photos few and far between. WikiCamp has captured the crowd sourced data and it works very well for a once off $8. ExplorOz as missed an opportunity here.

I guess what you pay the $100 for is the maps and the ease of navigation. I wounder how good these maps are? I have not had the opportunity to fully assess this. They are certainly better than OSM, WikiLoc, and anything I could readily find on Avenza, or Topomaps. Hopefully, one day I will be able to compare them to Hema. I never did come to terms with the "turn by turn" navigation. It only works when internet was available which was not often where I traveled. If internet was available I preferred to use Google Maps. The most useful function was simple following the track on one integrated map platform that allow easy zoom functions, as I traveled. Yes, that same track that I now cannot download!

I looks to me like a good deal of AstroTurf surrounds this product. Reviews online are too generous, and 90% of the searches hit the ExplorOz web site! In my book negative reviews are just as valuable as positive ones and multiple website authors are better than one. Users are discerning and will sort the wheat from the chaff. Beyond IT has great marketing but in some ways not so good a product. The functionality requires a lot more polish and revenue model needs a little tweeting to allow user access to their own data.

Great info Glenn L4....
I’ve heard from others who really know how to use the app continually complain about the apps limitations, etc.
I’ve been sitting on the fence for a while reading and listening to people’s experiences and returning from a recent trip with one of the group members trying to use the App and hearing his frustrations , I’ve decided not to buy the EO app but instead look at the HEMA 4WD app instead to add to what I currently use...

Hi Glenn,
I know my reply here risks extending the discussion off the topic of the OP's post, so by responding as a follow up to your reply this should suffice.

Firstly, all the data that you create in the Traveller app is stored in your account. You don't have to pay to access it or reuse it within the app. I'm trying to get my head around understanding what specifically has made you think you cannot... as I suspect there is confusion and I can simply clarify the facts.

I think what you may be getting confused about is your recent trip. If you have just done a trip with the TRaveller app running it has been automatically collecting and storing position data as you've travelled. You have access to that data for free. In the app you simply use the Create Track log option and you can choose how to use the position data - ie you can extract the whole lot from that trip (ie. trip start date to trip end date) and the system will automatically compile all the position data into a route line and display this on a map showing your entire trip. Alternatively, you might want to break up the data to show sections. That's personal choice. This is free. This is called a Track Log. Once the position data has been compiled into the Track Log you have access to a webpage where with publishing tools to add photos, write a trip story etc and share it friends to read/enjoy. You can post a link to it in social media or just keep it for your own records in your free ExplorOz account (Visitor). You can also recall the route line from that "Track Log" to your map screen if you ever wish to retrace the journey. You can also assign a share status to your Track Log to let others that use the Traveller app download a copy of the route file so they too can display it on the map as line to follow. All free. Membership is not required for that.

To clarify - Membership offers the following extra features BUT its optional and not critical to your use of the app:-
1. ability to activate the auto syncing function that sends your position data in real time from your device to our server - here it will automatically be compiled to display your route line of travel on a map. You have the choice of making the map visible to other people such as family/friends who might like to follow your trip progress as you go.
2. ability to use the standalone Tracker app instead of the full mapping/navigation app to just track movement on any device. eg. use for bushwalks on a phone, or mtb ride etc. login to your kids/wife's device with your ExplorOz member account and track them - the Tracker app enables you to see the tracking of all your devices (your = your member account).
3. as of last month, we have built a new free desktop version of the app as a supplementary tool for trip planning to enable you to use large monitors on devices such as desktop pcs or macs without having to buy another version of the app. This version only runs in a webbrowser.
4. There are a whole list of other Member benefits external to app usage that is listed here too - See Member Entitlements

To pick up your other points, we already do show distance and timing between towns if that is what you've added to your trip plan (see how to navigate to a destination, and how to create personal treks. I'll pop in some screen shots here for the benefit of others reading this in the future in a future edit/update.




Just like Wiki Camps, Places utilises crowd sourced content to help it grow/add comments/updates etc. Did you add photos and details to the Places you encountered along your Trip?

Hi Michele I think you missed the main point. I just saved some of my trackfiles from a trip a few weeks ago. After i created my gpx file and saved it you can't download it to use on another device unless you become a payed member. I also tried after unlocking it but same. This is what i mentioned above about a month ago but go shot down by grumpy boots. The point is ,its my file so why do you have restriction on something so simple. Im really over EO Traveller it has to many limitations compared to other nav programs .

If you have Traveller on another device you most certainly can use your saved track log from the original device. This is because your Track Log is automatically saved to your ExplorOz account and when you log in on your other devices/s it is automatically synced via the Data Manager and ready to use - just go to the Personal Track Logs list on your 2nd device and it will automatically be there ready to load on the map screen. The option you are using (that requires membership) is for when you don't want to use the file in Traveller but to use in other navigation programs.....

It's always been this way with exporting data from ExplorOz to use in other navigation programs since the early 2000s, well before our Traveller app was even invented. These are core features of Membership that you're suggesting be changed. We can see your point about just limiting the downloads to your own data however - so that is something that no one has ever suggested before so David and I will take it on board for consideration. Thank you for the suggestion.

Hi Michelle,

Thanks for taking the time to respond in detail. I want to emphasis that I would like to download *my* GPS data for keepsake. No single app can be all things to all people. For example, google Maps and Earth are ubiquitous mapping apps and I would like to see how they present my logged data. I also use several other mapping apps. Fortunately, I also ran the aprsdroid app during my travels. This is a once off $6 app that logs my gps data and allows me to download five times a day, up to a 30 day period of 10,000 points logs to CSV, KMZ, JSON and XML formats. Other users may not have been fortunate to have a similar a similar app running eg WikiLoc. I do think there is a good case, that after purchasing the app users have the right to download, within reason, their personal data without addition charges.

And, as for the trip planning which is "off topic" as you correctly point out, I would like to propose this scenario, and this is how I most often do my navigation, as it is usually not possible to travel outback with a precise plan. I am assuming that no internet is available as ExplorOz is targeted at the more remote traveler. Say, as you travel you reach a point where for some reason the route ahead is no longer available, or a fellow traveler tells you the road is in bad shape. You look at the map and see there are several other route available. Which network of road do I take? Subject to road conditions I take the shortest alternative route to my destination. I don't have internet and in any case I do not have time to plot all the alternative routes. What I do pick up the paper map, look at the distance figure between the major and minor point and do some quick sums. ExplorerOz does not follow the road distance with out internet it only give the "as the crow files" distances which is of little help as no roads are straight. It would be great to have everything planned out while in internet coverage but it does not work that way for ExplorOz's target market.

The features I misses in ExplorOz are as follows. These are just my opinions after using the app to cover over 10,000 kilometers, over the last several week in Northwest Queensland and the NT. I wish I had more time to learn the apps features, and as unfair as it is, life is short and the objective is to enjoy the travel not to study manuals.
* A pop legend for road types or some method of determining the road types while traveling as road types are very important when traveling in the outback and it is not easy to RTFM while bouncing along dirt road in a ball of red bull dust while the driver is asking/yelling when will see bitumen again?
* The lack of good write ups and photographs on place names. There is a real opportunity to use crowd source data. If there was a simple way to upload text and photos I would have done so.
* A quick and simple way to add photos at the current position on the fly.
* The ability to click and drag pins about.
* A generally more intuitive user interface. Maybe pop up help bubbles. Maybe a "novice mode". I found myself studying the manual all to often and saying "arrh that is how it is done". Is there a offline FAQ devoted to the user interface? Youtubes are not available - no internet.

ExploreOz defiantly has potential. IMHO the app still needs a few more features and a more intuitive user interface.

Glenn made some valid points that would make life easier.... but having the ability to "choose" a different route listing the distance/time for each route offline should the one you're currently on be closed for whatever reason is something that I've only ever seen on a dedicated GPS device. I cannot think of an App that does this but I'm sure there is one out there...

Also, having the ability to manually adjust a previously saved waypoint to a more accurate position would also be a good option along with being able to see the name of the waypoint w/o having to click on the waypoint is an advantage as well

Maybe us more advanced users are demanding to much. Here's why I have stopped using Traveller. Loading a .gpx file that containing a hundred waypoints like on a remote trip I just finished means ,to remove them you can't just delete the one file of 100 points.You have to go into the menu online and delete one at a time, very time consuming . The loaded track which I created then used it as a guide to follow ,eg in the North Simpson obscures the actual shotlines ahead of me, worst the more you zoom in and the crumb trail is covered and very hard to see . The loaded tracklog should have the ability to be adjustable in size and of more brilliant colours so it more visible. On screen it requires a touch and hold here and there to calculate distance and bearing to the destination ,this is common on many free playstore nav apps. On android I find using the back button when in a menu closes the app down ,needing to restart it. A dedicated off button would be better as in eg Oziexplorer. Another annoying thing is, the line shooting across the screen to the previous gps lock which needs to be cleared in menu. Loading gpx track files require time stamps in absolute correct time stamps or the lines shoot in all direction when loaded into the device. I'm not sure if it just my device however the scale is locked down the bottom and can't be dragged and it disappears when at a certain zoom level.

@RobMac Thanks for the followup. reply.

Maybe, as Maurice has said, we are asking for too much of the product. Core functionality is more important he "nice to have" functionality. That said, what I was looking for was the ability to do ruler type measurements utilizing a data base for distance between place names while offline. Most paper maps have distances by road printed between asterisks for major place names and also between minor places in smaller print between minor places in between. This would be a great advantage when internet is not available. I do a lot of "ad hoc" or "what if" type navigation and usually when on the road. I can see that ExolorOz has put a lot of work into the internet based turn by turn navigation. However, it is the offline "on the fly" ruler type measurements I am seeking. The key point here is navigating offline. It does not have to be as detailed as the "turn by turn", but more accurate then the next to useless, "as the crow fly" single leap distance that ExlorerOz defaults to when offline.

Example of creating Wps Routes ,measuring distance. I use this app for measuring distances . It have options to use many other maps . Even the uncoded Ozi ozf 2_3 . Including full topo gov map of Australia. You can also cache sat images from many servers to keep in your memory . The touch screen to measure distance ,multi also and ceate a route is very simple and fast . Distance is displayed at the top of the screen. I like how the waypoints names a auto displayed on the screen without having to tap them.

This thread has become quite complicated to make responses so forgive me for how I need to respond.

I'll be responding in parts to address each issue.
So firstly, I've made an unscripted quick video demonstration using the sample Madigan camp POIS from maurice b's first 2 images to show how to do this in Traveller.

In the video, I show you a couple of different ways to achieve the same result :
1. using place icons from the map,
2. using the place search lookup to type in a name of a place,
Both give you access to the GoTo link which is how the app calculates distance

I also show that if you tap the Place name from a list in your search you go to the map where you then have to tap the Place to access the GoTo link so it is quicker to use the LEFT SWIPE from the place name list in your search result to revewal the GoTo link without going back to the map.

Apologies for unscripted video but you'll get the general idea.
NOTE: in my demo I was online but for these places the system was unable to extract turn by turn directions so as you see we are offered Straight Line. If I was offline, there is no option, and the calculations will automatically use Straight line so the end result is the same. In maurices example he is using straight line in his nav system to get the calculations so again the result is the same in Traveller just done a different way. You'll also see that I show that our map has odometer markers/numbered distance on the map and I show how these related to the straight line calculations.

I'll address the other issues raised by Glenn L4, RobMac, and maurice b in separate replies following this.

Responses to issues raised by Glenn L4 in the above...

1. You say "I'd like to see how they represent my logged data". We do offer this but at a fee - we only ask app users to pay $29.95 for a year of Member service. This fee covers data charges we incur and is infact discounted by $20 for app users.

2. Offline route planning - similar to the examples in mauribe b's FollowupID: 915208 which includes a number of screen shots from other nav systems he uses, ExplorOz Traveller can do the same when offline or when no turn by turn available - just tap the Places on the map you want to go via and tap the GoTo to get straight line distance calculations from point to point. To help illustrate I've used the example in his first 2 images using wps to measure distance and create route - his example is straight line (as the crow flies) and its the same in Traveller when offline. See the video demo I've posted above.

In your final paragraph you list a number of features you'd like...

3. A popup legend for road types - all red lines are vehicular tracks. Solid for bitumen. Dashed for unsealed. I am currently working on adding an extra page into the User Manual to include all road/track type colour key so that is on its way in a day or two. See Thread 142202for my reply to another query on this issue the other day, also posts in the FB community group that cover this.

4. Lack of good write ups and photographs is up to the users. Crowd sourcing requires people to give as much as they take. There is a simple way but not sure you have looked into that fully yet. (insert screen shot).

5. You want to quickly add photos at current position on the fly. We don't see any value in a photo on its own so don't offer this unless there is a place. If there is a Place, just tap the icon - and there is the add photo button - as per;

6. The ability to click and drag pins about. But you can delete your own Personal places you've created if you've placed it wrong, and then drop pin for new position. If its an ExplorOz Place then only admin can drag it so just write a comment addressed to admin and we will do it. We get an alert email with each comment, and we have a process of reading every single one. Usually no longer than 7 days and its resolved. Often 24-48 hours.

7. The User Manual is built into the app for offline tuition/help and is our easiest method for keeping instructions up to date. I had to remove all the previous videos and now have to redo them as the layout changed in the UI update November last year and haven't had a chance yet. But its happening.

8. (from your second followup id: 915201) ruler measurements - this defeats the whole purpose of what the app does - its got a lot of built in features to take all this manual work away - you can get measurements just by selecting the first place and press Go to, then the next place and press Go to. The distance is given. See the video I created to demonstrate.

Response to RobMac
RobMac (Qld_Member)
If a waypoint you've made is wrong, delete it and simply create a new one. If you've made it public without checking, then you'll need to post a comment and ask us to delete your place with the error. But you can still create the correct one in the correct location.

Some places have very long names, it would clutter the map screen when viewing at low zoom levels etc to show Place name on map instead of inside pop up. Not practical.

Response to maurice b
1. the Traveller system doesn't NEED you to upload gpx files with hundreds of waypoints - Traveller will let you make a route with just a few Places. But its your choice. However - Track Logs - this is our new big update we've been working on for the past month - mostly due to your feedback. I won't comment on the details any more but most of what you want is included plus more. We posted about this in the Forum see Thread 142184

2 You also suggested a dedicated app off button but that is not how apps work by design. Just learn how to close an app using the swipe method (google it if you're unsure).

3. Your Followup ID 915208 contained 2 images at the top showing using straight line navigation to get distance calcs and then create routes using straight line. Traveller does that when offline - you just have to use Places - either use existing ExplorOz Places or drop a pin to create one and use that (only 1 click needed to create one as all defaults are preloaded). It's very easy to do exactly what you've outline you do in another app so what's the difference? As per the video I posted I created to demonstrate this using your Madigan camp examples.

Sat images - well yes, that depends on what licence is paid. We don't pay a licence to Google for the ability to download sat images so that would need to be added into a user-pays fee structure.

Wow... the responses are voluminous! I am out. I am not on salary to continue this on going discussion to convince Michelle that she may have missed the point of several of the suggestions in this thread.

In closing I will not be paying more to download my own GPS data. I will be using one of several other applications that record, store, and allow me to download my data for free or at minimal cost. The value of your product is in the mapping and the navigation and not in restricting free use of personal route and track data. That only detracts from your product.

Hi Michelle,
This thread has wandered a bit from my original question, but here's a try at explaining what I was wanting. When planning a detailed annotated itinerary for a recent trip, I just wanted to export the names of and distances between way points to a spreadsheet(s) to be used on further detailed planning from grocery store opening times in Western Queensland to details of distances on the Hay River Track and potential camping spots. Transcribing from various trip segments seemed to be both unnecessary and a potential for transcription errors.

"spreadsheet(s) to be used on further detailed planning from grocery store opening times"
Now I know your extracting the urine Warren. :)
Dave.

David M, absolutely not, adopt home big city practices and rock up to a country town on Sat arvo and expect to provision up and see how you go. For month long sojourns involving multiple vehicles, spreading the gear around so not everyone carries a torque wrench a full set of half inch sockets, tyre levers, bead breaking tool ... requires a lot of detail. Knowing when, where and who for lots of stuff saves stuff ups. So something as simple as a note when Longreach stores are open isn't silly. Then there's the distances between the spots you think you might want to stop and camp in the desert. Every bit of detail, even if it is ultimately too much detail, helps get your head in the right spot each time you get back to the planning in the preceeding months. A classic is to note events such as Camel races, plan your dates, then something comes up you shift the time line and lo and behold you're smack bang in the middle of a major event.

Warren H...
I know what u mean but for me, I've created a spreadsheet to cater for much of what u mentioned and in regards to distances, etc, I just get all that info straight from Google Maps. It gives u the distances and times and from that I can work out your average speed & this will tell u if google times is roughly correct or not. You can do a lot with Google Maps these days with map layers and Trip Planning, etc


Michelle..
Regarding the waypoint names being visible.. This is a great benefit and I'm sure there could be a way to limit the number of characters at certain zoom levels. The closer u zoom (less cutter there is) the more of the name u could see...

The shifting or re-positioning of waypoints is something I think should be simple and easy. When I'm planning a trip, I source waypoints from all sorts of locations and then upload them (along with a tracklog of our proposed route) in a GPX format into my device. Now, sometimes when we get to a waypoint we find it's not exactly correct position wise (all other info/notes, etc is correct). Now, instead of having to delete and then enter all the other info/notes that I had included for that waypoint, it would be far simpler to be able to just click/drag the point to the right position. This is what I do on other apps and GPS's that I use.

You mentioned also about distances between points when offline - Just wondering here but how hard would it be to have the same ability as a normal GPS device that will give u the exact distance via roads/tracks between the 2 points and not as the crow flies??

Also, having the ability to share your tracklogs (ie: GPX file) with others while out on the tracks (& offline) is of a benefit too. The Apps I use I can simply Upload the tracklog info I want to share and either send it via email or Airdrop it to a friends phone. I have flexibility in various ways, I'm not bound by the Exploroz site - I can transfer my data from outside of the App. Example is I use a few Different Apps (PocketEarth; Mapout & OSM) on various devices. I can easily transfer the GPX data from one App to the other without any issues - Can this be done on ExplorOZ? From what I've been seeing it doesn't look like it. Flexibility and simplicity is the key