Today’s towing worries vs the ” old days”

Thanks for your thoughts Chris

We have all those"toys" and loving it. Wouldn't want it any other way. :)

Out of those-
Generators
Heaters
A/C
Toilets
Showers
Batteries
Solar Set-ups
Weber's
TV's
Stereo's
Microwaves

We have all but a stereo and microwave so I pose the question- "if our caravan 16ft loaded ATM is 1000kg why are some needing to tow 3000-3500kg?. Yeh I know, each to their own.

Eaglefree...extra weight is for the hair dryers, coffee machines and egos!

Hair dryers & coffee machines. Yep, those on board as well. Which makes my Egos bigger than yours :):)

I remember the planning involved when my father took me on 3 day camping trips. Tea and sugar in brown paper bags in his left pocket .22 ammunition in his right pocket. No tent but a small tarpaulin in the 2wd car together with matches and an axe.very fond memories!

"Tea and sugar" Pure bloody luxury ! We drank water out of muddy puddle if thirsty and were thankful
for it.
Dave.

How the world has changed Tony

Hi Batts
I have always felt that people who need a GVM Upgrade have purchased the wrong vehicle in the first place but I expect criticism from those who have by making that statement

Most of the GVM upgrades are nothing more than better suspension!!. No brake upgrades, stronger axles, or strengthened diff houses. Too many trying to keep up with the Joneses with a bloody big van to fit their egos..GVM upgrade means you certainly have made a poor decision with your rig...

"Same weight issue with cars they're getting heavier not lighter probably because carbon fibre etc is to expensive."
Fibreglass sandwich panel for building caravans seems expensive, but it is not really. It comes off a CNC router cut to size EXACTLY and goes together with a few tubes of glue like an IKEA flat pack.
Superior strength, superior insulation, superior finish and superior durability "straight out of the box" and for a commercial builder, the (very expensive and hard to get) labour content is slashed.
http://vanglass.homestead.com/
I am a DIY off road motorhome builder who is about to build my second vehicle. The first has been proven for 16 years.
I would use no other material.

Caravan customers need education. The builders make what the customers buy.
Almost all motorhomes are made with sandwich panel. Almost no caravans. Strange that?
Cheers,
Peter
OKA196 motorhome

I Agree with Big Fish, And when something breaks, a bit of welding and plating here there and everywhere,

is thought to be a modification to fix everything, somethings you read are just a joke as far as i'm concerned. Just buy the right vehicle for your requirements and tow ..carry to the specifications for that vehicle.

Cheers Axle.

Batts
GVM upgrade is, as mentioned, simply a suspension which holds it up more and perhaps shock absorbers to attempt to cater for the additional mass carried. Nothing else is better and more stresses are imposed on all the parts which the manufacturer has already rated, BUT Aussie engineers who want money and rego people who are happy to receive cash or approve of a piece of paper, all ok the concept.

I wonder how many are then loaded to the NEW MAX and brake tested and swerve tested and endurance tested to gain the all important Plate.

I have had a GVM increase on the OKA.
Physical changes to suspension, wheels and tyres, significant research by the engineer regarding axle load limits, and quite extensive practical brake testing on a private airfield (that had to be paid for). That testing included multiple crash stops from between 60 and 100kph, one after the other, measurement of pedal pressures and G of speed retarding rates, disc temperatures etc, all at the proposed new GVM.

There was also a GCM increase. That is a (relatively) simple calculation of torque, power and final gearing to establish the vehicles ability to drive away from a standing on a 12% slope and to continue to drive up a 20% slope at maximum GCM.
All this despite him having done previous OKAs. There was no "rubber stamping".

This sort of exercise for a "Heavy vehicle" (over 4.5T GVM) is quite different from doing the same thing with a "Light vehicle" (under 4.5T GVM).
Cheers,
Peter
OKA196 motorhome

The extensive work you had done is what I would expect to be done to have a genuine, quality increase in GVM....not just some aftermarket suspension. Vast majority of 4wd owners put the same suspension on as those that are supplied in a GVM kit. Only difference is that the GVM kit includes a $2000+ engineers plate...wtf?

Peter.
Yes there are some engineers who are thorough but all the normal GVM upgrades seem to be Fit And Tick from normal outlets.
PS. We're you a mail carrier in SA with an Oka?

Not the Coober Pedy Mail run? Now those vehicles work hard.

We are purely recreational, but our OKA did 330,000km on Kangaroo Island as a tour bus before we bought it in 2003. Now approaching 600,000km.
Cheers,
Peter
OKA196 motorhome

Peter.
Thanks for that. He was a Peter too. Met him in 2010 after a motorcycle crash and at a station later. Not sure how he did it all the time. . Just thought.

I think he has decided to give it away.
Cheers,
Peter
OKA196 motorhome

Cruiser3, my GVM upgrade included reinforced rear diff, reinforced rear upper and lower spring mounts, new shocks and springs all round, braking and swerve test, was the first 4.8 Patrol to get a GVM upgrade and needed to be tested. Once tested, that test can be used for other 4.8's, why it seems like tick and flick paperwork. My maximum braked towing capacity was decreased by the 500kg increase in GVM as the GCM stayed the same at 6500kg. I have also fitted much better brakes. Cheers.

Re "people who need a GVM Upgrade have purchased the wrong vehicle in the first place but I expect criticism from those who have by making that statement", ...

A GVM upgrade increases payload. Vehicles like Prados and Cruisers don't come with all that much, supposedly because the manufacturer wants to keep the suspension relatively soft. As a result it doesn't take all that much to be over-weight. I suspect that there are plenty of heavily-loaded, non-towing vehicles that are over GVM without an upgrade. Towing just makes it worse, and more dangerous, and more likely to get caught by the weight police.

Was it really any better in the "good ol' days" or were we just more ignorant?

Written as someone who is doing his level best to tow without an upgrade.

I've had plenty up suspension lift kits over the yrs which have heavier rated springs to suit so I'm not talking about those who have enough sense to know they'll need an upgrade or plan for what they need with their set up as most have a concept of what extra weight does to the handling and load carrying ability of a vehicle. I was talking about those who have no idea and load their vehicle up to and beyond the max or have to much rear over hang beyond the axle or tow massive vans wondering why the rear is sagging then think fitting the biggest springs will fix everything. I know not everyone can figure every thing out but when things are obvious and stand out like the van is twice the physical size of the tow vehicle the light should go on but often doesn't.

Rocco I had a 22 ft viscount in the 70’s dual axle. But remember the bigger 26 and 30 footers. Towed mine with a FJ 40 landcruiser, the rule then was the laden weight of the van should not be greater than the unladen weight of the tow vehicle

Cruiser 3,
I still quote that today..... That's going back some.. regards, Michael

Yes Michael it’s still not a bad rule and one that I still abide by.

I remember having a look inside a 36 footer in Perth around 18yrs ago it was massive inside. I talked to the fellow who was buying it to tow up to the pilbra to live in he had something like a 5t truck parked outside ready to go.

Also talking about the old holdens there was a fellow in Newcastle in the 90's with a tri axle holden ute don't know what he carried on that.

They are not camping...they are glamping. Delude twits trying to find their lost youth and thinking that a $300,000, overweight rig is the answer..

Maybe next week Gazz, only joking

Now your talking,

"We like to get away from it all, not take it with us"

Further to Chris’ comment I have always considered a caravan as a the next step from sleeping on the ground beside a fire, then a tent and the next step up a caravan but now it seems a caravan is better than the old 2 bedroom houses that our parents reared a whole family in.

1.5% !!!??? Mine is more like 4%. Lucky you !!

Is that for all roads, tracks ?

Cheers
Jim

"The road toll and therefore accidents were significantly higher - particularly when considering the population was 10m less. "

I don't know why it sticks in my mind, but I recall from my childhood a front page headline in one of the daily papers:

VIC'S ROAD TOLL: 1076

This would have been early sixties, I think.

I just looked up some stats:

Vic's 5 year average now is 256, NSW's 3 year average is 286.

A couple of interesting graphs from a 1998 document here.

Jim S1 - Yes it is anywhere in Oz provided I am allowed to be there. This includes private property. My insured value is approx $40k and my premium is around $600. This is significantly less than my car insurance but there is a very limited liability risk with a caravan ie the third party liability usually rests with the towing vehicle. They don't get broken windscreens either.

Premiums are influenced by geographics to a large extent ie if you park it in a flood, cyclone, bushfire, high theft type environment you will pay more. Still - I would have thought 4% sounds steep but I am not familiar with these things so much anymore.

Wonder if mine is higher because it is an off-road camper ........ more chance of damage or being written off.
I'll have to look into it closely next time around.

Cheers
Jim

Mine is also an off road hybrid type. I don't think that makes any difference. They didn't ask whether I take it off the black top or not.

Depends on what you want to compare things to. Fishing and camping was ten times better 50 years ago. Rivers were clean, camp sites were not littered with human shite and camp sites were well spaced. Vehicles could be worked on quite easily and parts were readily available. Biggest waste of time now is social media. Anyone who describes themselves as an "influencer" is nothing more than nupnupin my opinion. I,d rather be back 50 years than where we are at present.