Tyre size

Submitted: Friday, May 12, 2023 at 09:48
ThreadID: 145634 Views:2047 Replies:7 FollowUps:24
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Hi guys l have just purchased a used 2019 xls ford ranger which has 16inch l think A/T tyres fitted. Problem is we are purchasing a off road hybrid with 18 inch mud terrain tyres, do l need to change the Ranger tyres t o the same as the hybrid or vise versa.
Cheers Carol
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Reply By: thinkin - Friday, May 12, 2023 at 11:33

Friday, May 12, 2023 at 11:33
Hi Carol, Why has this off road hybrid got 18 inch mud terrain tyres? (large diameter brakes)!
I would think you need to only change 3 wheels and tyres to match your 16 inch Ford wheels and tyres.
Naturally get same offset so all wheels and tyres are interchangeable if possible. You would have a greater choice of 16 inch tyres if you head out into the outback.
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Follow Up By: Carol C1 - Friday, May 12, 2023 at 12:51

Friday, May 12, 2023 at 12:51
Hi thanks for your reply, sorry my mistake they are 16 alloy wheels with 265/75 R16 123Q off road tyres.
Cheers Carol
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Reply By: Peter_n_Margaret - Friday, May 12, 2023 at 12:02

Friday, May 12, 2023 at 12:02
In my view, 18" tyres are not suitable for off road use (unless they are high profile which is unlikely) and why anyone would put mud terrain tyres on a trailer astounds me.
Change them to wheels and tyres that are identical to and interchangeable with the Ranger.
Cheers,
Peter
OKA196 motorhome
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Follow Up By: Stephen L (Clare) SA - Friday, May 12, 2023 at 12:10

Friday, May 12, 2023 at 12:10
Just a follow up on 18” tyres Peter.

A lot of vehicle manufacturers are fitting 18” tyres standard to many new four wheel drive vehicles today, including my new Isuzu X Terrain.

The first thing I did from new was scrap the standard HT tyres and put a set of premium AT/LT tyres on, but still keeping with the original standard size of 265/60R18 with the added bonus of a higher load rating.

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Follow Up By: Peter_n_Margaret - Friday, May 12, 2023 at 12:21

Friday, May 12, 2023 at 12:21
I am aware of that Stephen, but stand with my view. 60% profile is on the wrong side of "marginal" in my opinion.
Years ago, the mob at Mt Dare used to comment on the suitability of vehicles to cross the Simpson. The first 4WD that they declared to be "unsuitable" was a Range Rover with 18" tyres.
Looking at the damage to the Simpson track now, I reckon their view is justified. Too much power, not enough flotation.

The choice of tread fades into insignificance, by comparison.
Cheers,
Peter
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Follow Up By: Carol C1 - Friday, May 12, 2023 at 12:56

Friday, May 12, 2023 at 12:56
Hi guys my mistake they are 265/75 R16 123Q off road tyres. I'm sure there still mud terrain tyres though
Sorry for any confusion.
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Follow Up By: Stephen L (Clare) SA - Friday, May 12, 2023 at 13:35

Friday, May 12, 2023 at 13:35
Hi Peter and Carol

First to Peter

I put all the damage to the Simpson dunes down to only one factor……idiots that run with far too high tyre pressures with the attitude of “I have a four wheel drive and can go anywhere.

Even recently of another forum, someone was asking on what pressures for the Simpson. I suggested if not sure with sand driving, drop down to 14psi and one wanker said I had no idea, no need to drop at all and was part of the challenge, so with a comment like that, no wonder the Simpson tracks are cut up as hell.

Now to Carol

Somewhere on your tyre, there will be either one of three different lettering combinations…

HT is for Highway Terrain type tyres.

AT for All Terrain tyres

MT for mud terrain tyres.

The MT type tyres and a very aggressive type tread pattern while most AT type tyres are less aggressive.
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Follow Up By: Member - kimberleybloke - Friday, May 12, 2023 at 15:02

Friday, May 12, 2023 at 15:02
When I first got my 2016 Hi Lux with 18inch wheels I had doubts about its ability to handle off road driving. However after changing to good AT 10ply Tyres and adjusting pressures to suit conditions, they have handled any off road/track condition as well as most other vehicles, including the Simpson, Canning, Wapet, Tanami, Gibb etc. etc. Soon heading off for more adventures and have no problem trusting them to go anywhere.
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Follow Up By: Peter_n_Margaret - Friday, May 12, 2023 at 16:24

Friday, May 12, 2023 at 16:24
At reduced pressure, an 18" low profile tyre will always have a smaller foot print than a reduced pressure 16" tyre of the same diameter and width.
Can not be any other way.
Cheers,
Peter
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Follow Up By: Member - Outback Gazz - Friday, May 12, 2023 at 19:41

Friday, May 12, 2023 at 19:41
" I put all the damage to the Simpson dunes down to only one factor……idiots that run with far too high tyre pressures with the attitude of “I have a four wheel drive and can go anywhere. "

Not a truer word spoken re: Simpson Desert Stephen !

I ran a trip across the Simpson about five years ago - ten vehicles in total of varying makes and models.
Most of the group were reasonably experienced with sand driving but a few were first timers so I gave everyone the heads up on tyre pressures with the majority dropping to 16psi on my advice. Some had stock tyres and some had bigger all terrains but everyone aired down.

Well - when we got to Big Red ( west to east crossing ) there was a group of six vehicles all having a few attempts and a few more attempts all without success and with run ups what must have been 80kph from some - ALL fell 10 to 15 metres short of getting over.

I called them up and asked would they mind if they could let us go through and a reply came back - go for it and good luck as the sand is so soft you will be lucky to make it. I was tail end Charlie and told my group to head up and over and form a line of cars on the other side on the hill for the mandatory group photo.

How funny was it to see the faces of the 40psi mob when each and every member of my group just plodded over the hill first time with reasonable ease. Then came a radio call from someone in the other group asking if we all had front and rear lockers fitted ? Another grin on my face when I replied no mate - we're just smart enough to know that sand driving requires lowering your tyre pressures !

Didn't my group enjoy their beers etc in the famous Birdsville Pub that night :)

Cheers
Gazz







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Follow Up By: Stephen L (Clare) SA - Friday, May 12, 2023 at 20:19

Friday, May 12, 2023 at 20:19
I have come across a very similar story Gazz.

On one of our Solo east to west trips across the Simpson the dunes were cut up as normal, but some more than others.

Then over the radio there was a lot of chatter from a group in front of us, all complaining on how hard the dunes were to cross and many taking more than 4 tries to get over.

Then there was a call for help, one of the group could not get over, then their leader says on the radio……..try dropping your tyre pressures down to 36psi……….

We ended up catching the group out at Eyre Creek. They were all Simpson virgins and told a few of them to drop down to 14 psi and you will crawl over every dune. Three took my advice and catching up with them further, the three will low tyre pressures were getting over ever dune with ease, while the rest in the group were all struggling.

Then to piss me off, one of the group told me their leader not to take any notice of me, as he was their leader and knew what he was doing……ha ha ….what a total wanker.
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Follow Up By: Peter_n_Margaret - Friday, May 12, 2023 at 21:11

Friday, May 12, 2023 at 21:11
Yep.
No spinning wheels, no screaming engine. 110HP for 6T of OKA.
The vid is in 2 bits unfortunately.
https://youtu.be/T7y61s_2vP0
https://youtu.be/hX2bqM8VSZE
Cheers,
Peter
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Reply By: Member - Mark (Tamworth NSW) - Friday, May 12, 2023 at 13:38

Friday, May 12, 2023 at 13:38
At least two issues, tyre type (Mud terrain) and secondly rim size.

In short, you don't have to do anything. However,..............
I can think of no place where MT tyres on a van would be an advantage and for probably > 95% of your driving a disadvantage. As the manufacturer of my hybrid van said, we fit what people want, but most first time buyers think you need "tough looking" tyres to go with a tough rig.
If you are buying a new van have them changed to match your vehicle.
It is always an advantage to have the same rims and tyres as your tow vehicle, in case of multiple punctures. When buying second hand vehicles/vans that is rarely achieved.
You could change the hybrid rims over in time, provided the rim /wheel offset doesn't interfere with your van suspension and brakes. Our previous Kimberley Kamper wouldn't let us change rims to match the rims on our Pajeros.
I changed the 16 inch MT tyres to AT tyres on our 2nd hand hybrid not long after buying it, however I have 17 inch vehicle rims on our Prado..
As I don't do the extensive rough gravel road travel that Peter and Stephen do, investigating changing my hybrid 16 inch rims over to 17 inch rims is not a high priority for me. If in doubt I'll take an extra tyre
Others may have a different view point.
AnswerID: 643550

Follow Up By: Carol C1 - Friday, May 12, 2023 at 16:20

Friday, May 12, 2023 at 16:20
I asked if they could change them to all terrain tyres and they have replied with no they can't . But will press the issue with them next week again. Thanks for your reply.
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Follow Up By: Gronk - Friday, May 12, 2023 at 22:01

Friday, May 12, 2023 at 22:01
Just make sure the wheels are interchangeable. No problem putting a mud tyre on your 4wd to get out of trouble…or vice versa.
Are you going to be taking the van outback, or just bush ?
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Follow Up By: Carol C1 - Friday, May 12, 2023 at 22:28

Friday, May 12, 2023 at 22:28
Will be a bit of both hopefully, but only doing short trips around our area till we get the van how we want it and the ins and out of the van, and l feel comfortable towing long distance with it.
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Reply By: zanderslot - Friday, May 12, 2023 at 15:33

Friday, May 12, 2023 at 15:33
Hi Carol.
What is the ATM of the hybrid? Going by your tyre size ,the 123Q weight rating for single axle comes out at about 3000kgs.
Doesn't matter what size rim you run, 16 17 or 18, the tyre must be that weight rating for the van.
My old Triton runs 245 70r 16. A needle in a haystack trying to find that size tyre to fit the weight rating for my homebuilt hybrid. It's ATM is 2600kg.
I run 16 inch rims on both with 265 75s on the van.
Rod.

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Follow Up By: Carol C1 - Friday, May 12, 2023 at 16:22

Friday, May 12, 2023 at 16:22
Gross weight of trailer is 3 tonne.
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Follow Up By: Member - McLaren3030 - Saturday, May 13, 2023 at 07:51

Saturday, May 13, 2023 at 07:51
Hi Carol,

By “Gross weight” do you mean ATM or GTM? ATM is Aggregate Trailer Mass, the total weight the trailer can weight sitting on its axles and jockey wheel/stand, GTM is Gross Trailer Mass, the total weight your trailer can weigh sitting on its axles, and connected to the towing vehicle. The ATM should always be higher than the GTM.

Macca.
Macca.

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Reply By: Member - nickb aka"boab" - Friday, May 12, 2023 at 15:47

Friday, May 12, 2023 at 15:47
The quick as no tyre change needed ..
The quality of tyres these days you very unlikely to very use your spare tyre .
I'm pretty sure I have read some theories on why mud terrain tyres are you on some times used on campers etc .
But if you are convinced that you need to change one or the other I would reduce the camper rims to more practical 16 inch that provide more rubber between the road and the rim which is more practical .
Cheers Nick b

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Reply By: Peter_n_Margaret - Friday, May 12, 2023 at 16:34

Friday, May 12, 2023 at 16:34
Carol, I am still confused.
Which vehicle has which tyres?
There are benefits to have them all on identical rims and tyres (including being able to wear out the trailer tyres before you need to throw them away because they are too old to be reliable).
There are benefits to have higher profile tyres if you are off the bitumen.
There are benefits to have higher load rating tyres.
The only benefit to mud terrain tyres on the Ranger is in conditions where you should not be driving. There is never a benefit to having mud terrain tyres on a trailer.
Cheers,
Peter
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AnswerID: 643554

Follow Up By: Carol C1 - Friday, May 12, 2023 at 16:42

Friday, May 12, 2023 at 16:42
Yes that is what l thought, but have asked the company if they would change them to all terrain tyres and they have refused to do so but l will be asking again when l see them next week, but both car and hybrid have 16 inch wheels but the hybrid has mud terrain.
Cheers Carol
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Follow Up By: Peter_n_Margaret - Friday, May 12, 2023 at 17:02

Friday, May 12, 2023 at 17:02
While there are no advantages to mud terrains on a trailer, the disadvantages are not significant, so don't stress on that point.
BUT.... If the trailer will weigh 3T on the road, I would be a tad uncomfortable with Load Rating 123 tyres on it. The margin between 3.0T trailer and 3.1T tyre capacity is legal, but way too skinny for my liking.

Having identical rims would be useful if you can arrange that, even if you have to live with the mud terrains until you buy some replacements down the road.
Cheers,
Peter
OKA196 motorhome
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Follow Up By: Member - Norm & Lisa - Saturday, May 13, 2023 at 08:12

Saturday, May 13, 2023 at 08:12
Carol maybe you could offer to supply them with AT tyres or even tyres and rims to suit so long as you are sure of the offset etc. Obviously with an appropriate reduction in cost. But as Peter said don't stress it too much. My hybrid came with Mud terrains that lasted for a few years until I scrubbed one on the Tanami. Trouble is once one is gone you don't want to buy another MT so then you are stuck in Alice Springs with Alice Springs prices looking for possibly 3 tyres.
Everyday is a holiday
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Follow Up By: Carol C1 - Saturday, May 13, 2023 at 10:05

Saturday, May 13, 2023 at 10:05
So the tyres on the Ranger are 255/70 R16 A/T and hybrid are 265/75, so would l change the hybrid tyres to the same as the Ranger. Hopefully a tyre place will exchange them.
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Follow Up By: Peter_n_Margaret - Saturday, May 13, 2023 at 10:15

Saturday, May 13, 2023 at 10:15
Getting the rims the same is the first priority.
Cheers,
Peter
OKA196 motorhome
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Follow Up By: Gronk - Saturday, May 13, 2023 at 10:27

Saturday, May 13, 2023 at 10:27
Actually there is a benefit of having mud tyres on a van….a stronger carcass. Tread pattern, no, makes no difference when towing but a stronger carcass is one benefit you can’t ignore.
Would I replace the muddies on my own hybrid….probably not.
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Follow Up By: Peter_n_Margaret - Saturday, May 13, 2023 at 10:32

Saturday, May 13, 2023 at 10:32
What makes you think a mud terrain tyre has a stronger carcass?
The load rating is the measure of the strength and that seems to be low for the job required.
Cheers,
Peter
OKA196 motorhome
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Reply By: Member - DOZER - Saturday, May 13, 2023 at 08:52

Saturday, May 13, 2023 at 08:52
Carol, mud tyres have a stronger construction than a/t tyres, the manufacturer may have to sell as per compliance, and considering its an offroad van, may be the standard set up. Other than replacement cost and fuel economy difference, there wont be an issue.
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Follow Up By: Peter_n_Margaret - Saturday, May 13, 2023 at 09:26

Saturday, May 13, 2023 at 09:26
"mud tyres have a stronger construction than a/t tyres,"
I don't think so. They may or may not have a different tread rubber compound, but the load rating is the measure of construction strength.
Cheers,
Peter
OKA196 motorhome
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Follow Up By: Member - DOZER - Saturday, May 13, 2023 at 11:16

Saturday, May 13, 2023 at 11:16
Yes, because there is larger areas of no rubber between tread blocks, the mud tyre needs to repel stick and rock punctures to the carcas, hense me calling it construction, this is part of the reason why a muddy uses more fuel, as its carcas is stiffer, it also doesnt bag out as much as a AT at thesame pressure. Mud tyres of an identical size, are skinnier than an AT, again a product of its intended use and construction. I thought wider was better for sand, but 2 trips to frazer showed me different, tour operators all ran skinny tall tyres.
Carol, its your call, id leave them till you need to change them, but its up to you.
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