Towing a higher ATM caravan at a reduced ATM due to towing vehicle ATM

Road Maritime Services which is NSW's equivalent of Vicroad's or TMR.

Cheers
Andrew

Cheers Peter

Thanks Wayne.

Thanks. I do understand the limitations of the rear axle in regards to weights when using the extra GVM of an upgrade. Like you say a lot of people think that it is the extra weight the vehicle can carry and don't realize that there are still considerations/limits to axle weights.

Cheers
Andrew

Thanks for the link. Much appreciated.

Cheers
Andrew

Hey Dean I didnt think of any issue with insurance...i guess they would have to prove that you were towing at greater than 3500kg's. I will be talking to insurance companies next week if we do end up buying the van...I am sure there wont be a problem....but something to make sure is covered off if and when we do insure it.

Cheers
Andrew

Dean K3,
I have just read the Club 4x4 PDS (policy). You are right it does throw the onus of proof onto the insured.

ie the exclusion reads "you were carrying more passengers or carrying or towing a load
greater than your car was designed for, unless you can prove that this
did not cause the accident. This includes bent or twisted chassis as
a result of overloading your vehicle or towing a load greater than your
car was designed for; "

In my very humble opinion that wording is unlikely to stand up under challenge. The onus of proof when denying a claim rests with the insurer. If you hit a tree could the insurer tell you that you have to prove you weren't drunk? Its very diffficult to prove a negative position. I think AFCA (the ombudsman) would take a dim view.

Good of you to raise it though - very pertinent to the thread.

Kenell

An insurance company can not (IMO) put the onus of proof onto you for overloading (and you can be overloaded whatever the ATM is) any more than they could exclude a claim because your vehicle is CAPABLE of breaking the speed limit.
Cheers,
Peter
OKA196 motorhome

G'day Peter, thanks for your words of caution.

Yes, the vehicle has an approved GVM/GCM upgrade that is recognized and legal in NSW as this was done post rego. It is a lovells stage 2 (I think that is what it is called) and it increases the cruiser from oem 3350kg to 4200kg not withstanding the axle weight limits that the upgrade gives you. The increase of 850Kg also gets added to the Gross Combination Mass and is raised from oem 6850kg to 7700kg. I have a signed engineers report stating such and RMS have updated the cruiser's GVM to 4200kg. It is legal and documented as well as being undertake by an authorized Lovells GVM upgrade installer and signed off by an independent and certificated Automotive Engineer. The installer is one of the bigger 4wd accessories manufacturer/installers so they know their stuff and have done many like this before.

I have double checked and tripled checked to make sure this is all legal and as I say I took the paperwork to RMS and they have updated the GVM of the cruiser to 4200kg. As far as I am aware I shouldn't have a problem with this van provided that I don't exceed the towing ATM (BTC) of the cruiser which is still the oem 3500kg's.

At 3500kgs GVM we will still have plenty of payload. I just wanted to know I was fine towing a van of an ATM 4500kg buy a car (cruiser) with an BTC of 3500kg. based on what I have found out and the above replies as long as i dont exceed the 3500kgs and use the DO45 I should be fine.

Cheers
Andrew

Some GCM upgrades include brake upgrades, diff upgrades, control arm upgrades etc. Looking at Lovells website, it does seem to be just springs and suspension for the 300 series.


Toyota Landcruiser 300
GVM & GCM Upgrade

The Lovells 4200kg / 7700kg Platinum Remote Reservoir series GVM/GCM shock absorbers feature threaded height adjustable struts and 4 year / 100,000km warranty.

Kit Includes:

Front Adjustable Remote Reservoir Struts

Front Coils (Australian made, with Australian Steel)

Rear Adjustable Remote Reservoir Shocks

Rear Coils (Australian made, with Australian Steel)

Stone deflectors and custom mounting kits for reservoirs

Federal Compliance Plate (pre-registered vehicle) or

State Compliance (registered vehicle)

Engineering

A car manufacturer designs a vehicle to appeal to the masses therefore things like suspension tuning are a compromise, soft enough for the mums bus around town but still with reasonable off road ability.

For those that want a purpose built machine ie off road or towing then things like suspension can be better tuned for the task at hand, ie heavier springs and shocks for carrying more weight whilst keeping the vehicle level good for travelers but to hard a suspension for mums and their shopping trollies.

Engineers look at the current vehicle specs and decide what can be done and can't, in the case of my Prado for example he looked at the max axle loading, the springs, shocks and struts to be fitted and was happy to raise the GVM to the max weight limit of the axles specified be Toyota.

If you wanted to go to extremes then you could have chassis stiffening, stronger axles etc but would be cheaper to buy and vehicle desinged for these loads in the first place.

This is what I don't understand Leigh...why don't people do due diligence and buy a vehicle that is suitable or even better still...buy a van that is smaller, weighs less, cheaper to run, easier to tow and costs far less? I,ve known a few who took the bigger is better route but it was an ego trip for them...I look at some of the you-tube clips and just shake my head at the ridiculous size of many of the rigs...many undoubtedly would be over weight and thus illegal. Each to their own but a lot of the one upmanship rigs seem like bullshite to me.

Again compromise, in my case I needed to extra GVM to keep it legal with all the gear we carry around and the weight of the camper on the back. Other alternative could have been to buy a 200 series but I was not going to pay another 30 to 40 thousand for a vehicle and then go bush bashing in it.

I am in a similar boat to Leigh. I am not in a position to have a dedicated touring vehicle so my work vehicle doubles as the getaway machine. I don't need a 4x4 for work, nor the 5 seats - I also don't need the extra costs/storage/servicing etc of a separate vehicle so a compromise is needed. A dual cab 4x4 ute suits me perfectly but alas does neither the job of work vehicle or tourer perfectly.

A GVM/GCM upgrade is a great practical solution for someone to stay legal when on holiday.

I too don't understand the need for a massive setup - we (2 adults 3 kids) still travel in our 15.5ft Coromal. But people can do whatever they want with their money!