Alloy Head Verses ALL Iron or Alloy Engine
Submitted: Friday, Aug 20, 2004 at 15:56
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Bjorn
How much easier Is it to crack an Alloy head on an iron block compared to an all alloy or all iron construction? 2 metals expanding and contracting differently as they heat etc can't be good can it? I know my suby is all alloy, and warms up real quick; where as my vp commodore was all iron and took ages.
which current main large and mid models toyota and nissan have which construction? It doesn't seem to be listed in specs. I'm particularly thinking about diesels.
thanks for any help
Reply By: GO_OFFROAD - Friday, Aug 20, 2004 at 16:15
Friday, Aug 20, 2004 at 16:15
You dont think motor companies pay thousands of engineers every week to overlook what dissimilar metals do when under heat cold cycles do you?
AnswerID:
73413
Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Friday, Aug 20, 2004 at 16:17
Friday, Aug 20, 2004 at 16:17
But the engineers are on the ball..
100 series steering components?
3.0 GU?
yea yea...
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333564
Follow Up By: GO_OFFROAD - Friday, Aug 20, 2004 at 16:23
Friday, Aug 20, 2004 at 16:23
Yes,
no dissimilar metals there though, in those 2 items, out of the thousands they currently design, make, to get a car on the road.
I would say the strike rate over all would be pretty damn good these days.
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Follow Up By: Bjorn - Friday, Aug 20, 2004 at 16:33
Friday, Aug 20, 2004 at 16:33
yeah, like the 3.0 patrol, good strike rate globally.
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Follow Up By: GO_OFFROAD - Friday, Aug 20, 2004 at 17:35
Friday, Aug 20, 2004 at 17:35
Yes,
thats what happens when you make a car on price and send it out to the customer for the R & D cycle ;-)
Not a disimilar metal issue though on the 3.0 patrol, though the exception always proves the rule.
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Follow Up By: Bjorn - Friday, Aug 20, 2004 at 17:52
Friday, Aug 20, 2004 at 17:52
are you saying you don't think the 3.0 patrol is any good?
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Follow Up By: Utemad - Friday, Aug 20, 2004 at 17:54
Friday, Aug 20, 2004 at 17:54
That's ALL he says.
No offence GO_OFFROAD ;-)
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Follow Up By: GO_OFFROAD - Friday, Aug 20, 2004 at 21:48
Friday, Aug 20, 2004 at 21:48
Im not saying that at all,
what Im saying is, you only ever get what you pay for.
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Follow Up By: Bjorn - Friday, Aug 20, 2004 at 22:27
Friday, Aug 20, 2004 at 22:27
i see, so a rangie is twice as good as a cruiser.
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Follow Up By: GO_OFFROAD - Saturday, Aug 21, 2004 at 08:20
Saturday, Aug 21, 2004 at 08:20
In the eyes of the purchaser, because of where the pricing, and marketing put the rangie in the market, yes, owners of them think so ;-)
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Follow Up By: Utemad - Saturday, Aug 21, 2004 at 09:55
Saturday, Aug 21, 2004 at 09:55
That's not what you said. You said "you only get what you pay for". What your saying now is that "you only think you get what you pay for".
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Follow Up By: GO_OFFROAD - Saturday, Aug 21, 2004 at 10:41
Saturday, Aug 21, 2004 at 10:41
well, you arent understanding marketing very
well, if you dont understand that.
Marketing creates the illusion, to those who desire top end equipment, that the item is in fact top end, compared to the entry level area where price drives what you get for your money.
The exception always proves the rule, as the ahs been highlighted by Bjorn, with the particular bvehicle he has picked to illistrate his point.
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Follow Up By: Utemad - Saturday, Aug 21, 2004 at 11:20
Saturday, Aug 21, 2004 at 11:20
Actually I do understand all that. I was just pointing out that a blanket statement like "you get what you pay for" doesn't always work. As you just pointed out yourself.
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Follow Up By: GO_OFFROAD - Saturday, Aug 21, 2004 at 11:24
Saturday, Aug 21, 2004 at 11:24
of course it doesnt always work, for the "price is no barrier" but I think when shopping on price, which is much more relevent to the topic in this thread, on this
forum, unless of course Bjorn is looking at buying a new rover, then none of us are under any illusions, apart from plucking out that which may help prove a point, regardless of how relevant it is ;-)
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Reply By: GUPatrol - Friday, Aug 20, 2004 at 16:26
Friday, Aug 20, 2004 at 16:26
Current Nissan 4.2 TD is all cast Iron.... Warms up quickly but even after sitting for 4 hours when you start it again is still warm....
3.0L is alloy head and cast iron block
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Reply By: Bjorn - Friday, Aug 20, 2004 at 16:40
Friday, Aug 20, 2004 at 16:40
Alloy head reeks of compromise, like they couldn't afford to build the whole thing in alloy... what are the advantages of alloy head over all alloy?
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Follow Up By: Moz - Friday, Aug 20, 2004 at 19:51
Friday, Aug 20, 2004 at 19:51
Weight.
Engineers are constantly looking for ways to reduce the weight
of the vehicle within a budget.
Reducing the weight of a major engine component improves
fuel economy or allows them to fit things like more
electric gizmos for you.
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Follow Up By: Chris (W.A.) - Sunday, Aug 22, 2004 at 05:19
Sunday, Aug 22, 2004 at 05:19
out of the blue...finally holden pulled their finger out and are going alloy instead of crappy cast iron.
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Reply By: Member - Jeff M (WA) - Friday, Aug 20, 2004 at 17:11
Friday, Aug 20, 2004 at 17:11
1kz-TE 3.0LTD Toyota's in prado and surf are alloy head an cast block. Mitsubishi is Alloy/Alloy.
If you go to: www.carsales.com.au and select car research it will tell you to constrution of head vs block on most current and past models.
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Reply By: Davoe - Friday, Aug 20, 2004 at 17:25
Friday, Aug 20, 2004 at 17:25
Getting a matched head and block are still no garantees of saving a cracked head. The Toyota 2h motor was tough as teak but overheat them and the heads will crack like glass, The commodore 3l is another example as far as I can tell the failure rates of the heads between 150-200k was extremely high probably over 50%. The local spare parts guys keep changeover 1hz heads on display coz they go fairly easily too if you cant see your temp gauge. Bottom line is probably the best way to keep your head is to watch the temp gauge no matter what the construction material make or model
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Reply By: Utemad - Friday, Aug 20, 2004 at 17:57
Friday, Aug 20, 2004 at 17:57
If you are going to base your purchase decision on what the engine/head is made out of I think you might be overlooking a few things.
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Follow Up By: Bjorn - Friday, Aug 20, 2004 at 18:03
Friday, Aug 20, 2004 at 18:03
thats why I won't be doing that
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Reply By: ToyMotor - Friday, Aug 20, 2004 at 19:49
Friday, Aug 20, 2004 at 19:49
Bjorn asked:
How much easier Is it to crack an Alloy head on an iron block compared to an all alloy or all iron construction?
It's 4.3257% easier! As shown by numerous university tests...
But seriously folks, if you don't want to crack the head on your engine, keep it full of coolant and don't overheat it, pretty simple really.
cheers
AnswerID:
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Reply By: Jeff (Beddo) - Friday, Aug 20, 2004 at 19:57
Friday, Aug 20, 2004 at 19:57
Alloy heads, well I have not had a good run out of them. My Suby overheated and result was a cracked head, virtually straight away. My 1KZ-TE in my Surf (same motor as Prado) overheated 6 months ago and now 6 months later the aparant heating stress, warping or whate ver has resulted in a cracked head. The cast iron is bullet proof and I am reluctant to get another alloy head. Well if I do I will have an alarm fitted to the temp sensor to ensure the engine does not get near over heating (I'll get the alarm to sound when it hits 3/4 way).
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Follow Up By: Bjorn - Friday, Aug 20, 2004 at 21:02
Friday, Aug 20, 2004 at 21:02
does that alarm exist? is it a home job? It may have saved a peugeot garbage i drove once - cracked water pipe - heat needle kissed upper section fo gauge = bin job car.
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Reply By: Glenno - Friday, Aug 20, 2004 at 22:28
Friday, Aug 20, 2004 at 22:28
I remember limping home in my old Ford escort with a bung radiator. Driving down from Noosa to
Brisbane, in sections of 500m at no more than 60km hour! Took a good 5mins between sections to cool the car down, and many hours to get home! The temperature gauge was like a yo-yo, and the car lived to fight another few years.
The joy of uni days and no cash for a towtruck!
Cheers,
Glenn.
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Reply By: Big Trev - Sunday, Aug 22, 2004 at 07:34
Sunday, Aug 22, 2004 at 07:34
Ford Falcons have had a alloy head/cast block problem for years, head gaskets are a real problem.
For my money go with all cast configuration, it'll be safer in the long run.
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Follow Up By: navaraman - Sunday, Aug 22, 2004 at 15:37
Sunday, Aug 22, 2004 at 15:37
I've done the head on my Falcon (not mine anymore thankfully) twice, second time was just out of warranty after the head was replaced first time. After a previous problem with a Sigma or Magna (can't rememer which) I was very careful to check and replace coolant regularly, watched the temp gauge to the point of paranoia, but still had problems. All cast would be my preference too.
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