Powerup Update - 4.2 GU 4.2 TDI
Submitted: Monday, Sep 13, 2004 at 09:53
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Member - Chris M (QLD)
Gday all,
Hope you all had a great weekend!
Well, I've succumbed to the need for speed. I'm towing a car trailer this weekend out to Millmerran and have the
Toowoomba Range in the way.
Decided to go to
Brisbane Turbos soley due to my past experience with them and John Whittakers desire to help.
If you do decide to do a powerup on a TD6, John has informed me today that a 3 inch exhaust system is not recommended due to a valve prior to the intercooler. If the turbo spools up to quickly, it shuts off boost and you end up with a slug. It does not happen with a 2.5 system.
My biggest worry with a 2.5 system is that it does not seem to expend the gases as efficiently and E.G.T seems to rise rapidly. To date, John has not been able to solve the problem but is looking into it this week and will have an idea by thursday before the install so I can run 3 inch.
I will be running 12psi, hopefully with full flex mandrel bent system. (to all you anti-mandrell folk, I know where your coming from, it doesn't make hardly any difference, but this is what they sell!) The EGR system will be disconnected, but will remain to look standard. I doubt whether Nissan will cover warranty on motor if they do find the mods too extreme, but I have faith in the motor and have owned 2 TD42 motors before with 12psi without a prob. I will be putting the truck in for 4000k
services as opposed to 5000 soley for reliabilities sake.
I will scan my pre and post dyno reports in next week for interested parties to show the results. I wouldn't be surprised if I have to go back after taking it for a good run on the weekend with a couple of hiccups, but John will work on it for free after the initial mods until it's perfect. He's kinda like that mechanic on Seinfeld who steals Jerry's car because he's revved it too hard!
Anywho, I'll stop raving, will report later this week. And hey, if you have heard of a solution to the 'quick spool shutoff' problem, give me a hoy!
Cheers,
Chris.
Reply By: Truckster (Vic) - Monday, Sep 13, 2004 at 10:16
Monday, Sep 13, 2004 at 10:16
Call AG Diesel in
Melbourne, they have been thru all this already.
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Follow Up By: Member - Chris M (QLD) - Monday, Sep 13, 2004 at 10:18
Monday, Sep 13, 2004 at 10:18
They solved that problem? Will they be willing to part with the info?
I think you mentioned this the other day in a preivous post. You heard what they do yet truckster?
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Monday, Sep 13, 2004 at 11:59
Monday, Sep 13, 2004 at 11:59
I will ask Jonno if I see him on Yahoo messenger tonight.
You could try here
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Follow Up By: Member - Chris M (QLD) - Monday, Sep 13, 2004 at 12:15
Monday, Sep 13, 2004 at 12:15
That'd be great. Cheers mate.
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Follow Up By: Member - Chris M (QLD) - Tuesday, Sep 14, 2004 at 15:36
Tuesday, Sep 14, 2004 at 15:36
Trucky, hear anything back from John???
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336136
Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Wednesday, Sep 15, 2004 at 10:55
Wednesday, Sep 15, 2004 at 10:55
Not a peep, but if your on Outerlimits, you should be able to PM him. His user ID is Johnno
or just call AG Diesel. Pretend you are all keen to get them to do the work, and ask them what they do etc.. how much, etc, dont mention your in Qld, mention you are in Melb for 3mth contract and want to get it done by them, as you heard they do good chit.. ;)
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Follow Up By: Member - Chris M (QLD) - Wednesday, Sep 15, 2004 at 11:04
Wednesday, Sep 15, 2004 at 11:04
Thanks mate.
Gave AG a call mate this morning, they were fairly helpful, and suggested that they could get 20-30% or 50% with lotsa $$$ shelled out. Didn't say much about the 3inch exhaust, said they hadn't heard of it, so I guess I'll just get it done and see what happens...
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Reply By: Peter O - Monday, Sep 13, 2004 at 10:29
Monday, Sep 13, 2004 at 10:29
The boost will be to 12psi, may I ask what the starting psi is on the GU?
Peter
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Follow Up By: Member - Chris M (QLD) - Monday, Sep 13, 2004 at 11:36
Monday, Sep 13, 2004 at 11:36
Motsons told me 9,
Brisbane Turbos said 8-10 depending. Each car he's done has been between those figures.
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Follow Up By: sean - Monday, Sep 13, 2004 at 21:41
Monday, Sep 13, 2004 at 21:41
I recently had my Td6 dyno'd and boost ranged between 8.9 and 10.4 psi with 10.4 psi at maximum torque at 2083 rpm.
I will be very keen to see how you go but I dont want to change from standard exhaust for reliability issues on corrugagted roads.
Sean
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Follow Up By: sevo - Monday, Sep 13, 2004 at 21:45
Monday, Sep 13, 2004 at 21:45
Gday,
I have a 3inch system fitted to TD6 2004 full mandrel bent system with flanges just like stock system. I paid $640 for full system. I fitted it my self no dramas it is the best system i have seen made from aluminised steel. Boost pressure is 9psi standard. Have seen other patrols run 15psi with no great dramas(but i wouldnt). let m eknow your dyno results .
Thanks
Steve
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Follow Up By: Member - Chris M (QLD) - Tuesday, Sep 14, 2004 at 07:57
Tuesday, Sep 14, 2004 at 07:57
Gday Sean and Sevo,
Yeah, that's what John said, ranged from 8-10 depending on rpm's etc. As long as you inform the guys who do your exhaust, they will spend more time welding and putting in rubber mounts to resist cracking etc on corrugations...
Sevo, ok, so it's ok with the motor running standard hey? Obviously if they boost turbo pressure, that little pesky valve then must come into play. I'm not too sure exactly where the 'valve' is, but I'll be sure to update you all once I know exactly. Will post dyno results.
Cheers guys,
chris.
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Follow Up By: sevo - Tuesday, Sep 14, 2004 at 11:50
Tuesday, Sep 14, 2004 at 11:50
Which valve are you refering to?
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Follow Up By: Member - Chris M (QLD) - Tuesday, Sep 14, 2004 at 12:54
Tuesday, Sep 14, 2004 at 12:54
I'm pretty sure it's the boost control valve in the turbo that I'm referring to. Don't profess to being fully in the know yet, but was hoping someone had heard about the issue I referred to in the original post... I guess I'll be much clearer on Thursday.
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Follow Up By: sevo - Tuesday, Sep 14, 2004 at 15:02
Tuesday, Sep 14, 2004 at 15:02
Gday Chris,
I have done some research ,a throttle control valve is placed on the outlet side of the intercooler and works in conjunctoin with the EGR. Three soleniods contol these via signals sent from the ECM. The amount of egr is regulated in two stages large and small. The throttle valve will be fully open under all conditions except medium load. There fore would not have any affect on boost pressure. Hope this helps
Regards
Steve
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Follow Up By: Member - Chris M (QLD) - Tuesday, Sep 14, 2004 at 15:31
Tuesday, Sep 14, 2004 at 15:31
Ok, so may disconnecting the EGR will affect the two stages due to the increased flow?
I'm handy with the spanner on the diesel, but on turbo lingo. Signals sent by the E.C.M, isn't that the main control computer on a 3L? I'm probably wrong, but I don't think there is a computer on the 4.2, actually I'm fairly sure as I told the Nissan I wanted a non computer controlled donk and the ol' 4.2's the only one left.
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Follow Up By: Peter O - Tuesday, Sep 14, 2004 at 15:38
Tuesday, Sep 14, 2004 at 15:38
Hi Chris,
The new 4.2 is supposed to have an electronically controlled fuel pump but no engine management computer as such.
Peter
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Follow Up By: Member - Chris M (QLD) - Tuesday, Sep 14, 2004 at 15:39
Tuesday, Sep 14, 2004 at 15:39
That's what I thought, perhaps the 'E.C.M' has something to do with that, but I thought that might mean something computer something??? Can you tell I don't have a clue...
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Follow Up By: Peter O - Tuesday, Sep 14, 2004 at 15:43
Tuesday, Sep 14, 2004 at 15:43
I know just as much as you do on that one
Sorry I can't help
Peter
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Follow Up By: sevo - Tuesday, Sep 14, 2004 at 15:55
Tuesday, Sep 14, 2004 at 15:55
Yes gentleman it has a computer see for yor self ECM is located to the left hand side of steering column under the dash. Not as many inputs and outputs as ZD30 but a computer just the same.This model TD engine is the first TD42 that is consultII compatible.
Thanks
Steve
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Follow Up By: Member - Chris M (QLD) - Tuesday, Sep 14, 2004 at 15:57
Tuesday, Sep 14, 2004 at 15:57
All good Peter, it's a learning curve and a steep one at that, glad I'm getting a powerup so I can make it up this curve! :-)
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Follow Up By: Peter O - Tuesday, Sep 14, 2004 at 15:59
Tuesday, Sep 14, 2004 at 15:59
Steve,
Does that mean that it can be chipped up?
I did speak to Safari and they told me that they have no plans on making one, not for thew current model anyway
Peter
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Follow Up By: Member - Chris M (QLD) - Tuesday, Sep 14, 2004 at 16:02
Tuesday, Sep 14, 2004 at 16:02
Thanks Steve for
clearing that up.
Peter, it only controls the pump, the 3L one from memory controls the air and fuel mixtures and lotsa fun stuff...
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Follow Up By: Peter O - Tuesday, Sep 14, 2004 at 16:02
Tuesday, Sep 14, 2004 at 16:02
Chris,
I'm looking forward to seeing your results. You may have guessed by now that I have a GU also and will be keen to see the difference from your original figures.
Peter
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Follow Up By: Member - Chris M (QLD) - Tuesday, Sep 14, 2004 at 16:05
Tuesday, Sep 14, 2004 at 16:05
Yeah mate, guessed that.
After this, we should both be pros and you can walk into your local powerup
shop and tell em' what to do and show them the pros and cons!!!
cheers mate.
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Reply By: Utemad - Monday, Sep 13, 2004 at 10:48
Monday, Sep 13, 2004 at 10:48
Don't mean to be picky but Seinfeld's mechanic stole his Saab because Seinfeld had the oil changed by a quicky lube place and used inferior oil. His mechanic said he didn't deserve the car so he stole it ;-)
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Follow Up By: Member - Chris M (QLD) - Monday, Sep 13, 2004 at 11:35
Monday, Sep 13, 2004 at 11:35
Oooooooooooooookay then!
Still applies then...sorta.
Cheers.
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Reply By: CHRIS - Monday, Sep 13, 2004 at 11:59
Monday, Sep 13, 2004 at 11:59
I notice that you have a 2004 model Patrol, so apart from not worrying about warranty on the engine, wouldn't you be giving Nissan a good reason to knock back drive train and
suspension due to your modifications on a warranty claim. I think these days any mods can be a instant copout. There's a 4wd bloke in Nerang, QLD that no longer does lift's because of the liability aspect.
AnswerID:
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Follow Up By: Member - Chris M (QLD) - Monday, Sep 13, 2004 at 12:05
Monday, Sep 13, 2004 at 12:05
Talked to the guys where I purchased it from. The
suspension is only 3 inch, no caster correction or adjustable panhard rods, fitted by reputable mob in
Brisbane. They said no worries about that. Asked about exhaust mods, no worries either, EGR disconnection will probably make them angry. Tyres pretty much within specs. Worst case, know a guy that works in servicing in Nissan, will call him to arrange claim.
I'm not really that worried at present, I don't flog my cars, in fact I'm probably too good them, the 4.2 and drive train are proven so I've only got myself to blame if I need to make a claim. Will trade the truck in 2 years anywho as change over will only be 10k.
Couldn't drive with the stock
suspension anyway, not only can't I tow with the stock, but it wouldn't make it on the two trips planned next year.
I guess it depends on what you intend on doing. If I was keeping the car for 10 years, I wouldn't touch it probably.
Cheers
Chris.
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Follow Up By: Rosco - Bris. - Monday, Sep 13, 2004 at 12:37
Monday, Sep 13, 2004 at 12:37
Your dollars of course and good luck to you in that regard. But it seems to me you're spending a motsa on something you only intend keeping for a couple of years.
Cheers
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Follow Up By: GO_OFFROAD - Monday, Sep 13, 2004 at 13:28
Monday, Sep 13, 2004 at 13:28
Chris,
the car company cant cop out of the waaranty unless they can prove the mods were the cause of the problem.
Known problems, extra grunt of the 4.8 on the same drivetrain, etc etc all make the dealer need to show they did, not the owner show they didnt.
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Follow Up By: Member - Chris M (QLD) - Monday, Sep 13, 2004 at 14:16
Monday, Sep 13, 2004 at 14:16
And proving that would be quite difficult, especially if they serviced the vehicle from new!!
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Follow Up By: rolande- Monday, Sep 13, 2004 at 17:53
Monday, Sep 13, 2004 at 17:53
Rosco,
Spoken like a true Landy man, funny how you all sound the same :)
Rolande
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Follow Up By: Rosco - Bris. - Monday, Sep 13, 2004 at 19:34
Monday, Sep 13, 2004 at 19:34
Roland, Roland, Roland .....
What can I say..is it 'cause we don't have a "need for speed" .... can't use that phrase in the same sentence as 'Fender' in any event. Or is it 'cause we're such a parsimonious bunch that we have to continuously save our pennies to fix all the broken bits ... ah .. life's little mysteries .................... ;-))))))))
Cheers me old Nipponese mate
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Follow Up By: rolande- Tuesday, Sep 14, 2004 at 15:51
Tuesday, Sep 14, 2004 at 15:51
Rosco,
Guy at work has a TD5 Ute. As our shifts don't often cross so I don't get to speak with him too often, just happened to yesterday when those fateful words passed his lips. "Geez, wouldn't you feel ripped off buying a vehicle and then having to spend all that extra money just to get it to go where you want?"
I fire up the 'net, read a "Rosco" reply and there it is again. If Ford do some good things with Landy in the next few years you just never know..........
Roland of the PTrool, (and extras, extras persuasion)
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Follow Up By: Member - Chris M (QLD) - Tuesday, Sep 14, 2004 at 16:00
Tuesday, Sep 14, 2004 at 16:00
Gday Rolande,
well, I'd expect the gu could go
places without too much work at all, but in the long run, i just love making it go further...nice dig but!
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Reply By: Member - Chris M (QLD) - Monday, Sep 13, 2004 at 12:41
Monday, Sep 13, 2004 at 12:41
Everythings transferable except for the powerup. But your right, is alot of money, but you have to have a hobby! ;-) Better than spending it on booze or drugs.
And i do it more for r.n.d than anything else, my old man is getting a gu and will do everything i have that has worked well. Difference is, he will keep his for 10 years.
But I definitely understand where your coming from!
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Reply By: Austravel - Monday, Sep 13, 2004 at 13:29
Monday, Sep 13, 2004 at 13:29
Hi Chris,
I'd be very interested in your final results not only on paper but how it actually performs. Plus price if you don't mind. Mines a 2002 so no intercooler and maybe slightly different but should be pretty close comparasion.
Thanks
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Follow Up By: Member - Chris M (QLD) - Monday, Sep 13, 2004 at 13:40
Monday, Sep 13, 2004 at 13:40
Gday Austravel,
Nice post the other day about how messy oz is getting, totally agree!
As for the truck, will post it for info whether good or bad, I'll be happy with around 100 kw at the rears. Was told that the intercooler won't make any difference due to how crappy it is...
Cost: $1,900 including GST. That is 2.5 or 3 inch exhaust mandrell to the turbo, want it sounding bit tougher this time so some sort of funky muffler, lotsa other stuff, boost adjuster, pyro, tune, disconnect EGR, there's about 2 days of work in it apparently. It'll be good to take it for a 600 k run on the weekend to really test it out as well...
Cheers mate,
Chris.
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Reply By: DARREN - Monday, Sep 13, 2004 at 13:35
Monday, Sep 13, 2004 at 13:35
Chris,
Re 3in. with no caster kit, do you notice anything at all in the steering?
I have 2in. OME on my 2003 GU and did get the kit as I had heard different opinions but wanted to be sure my new car still drove like a new car. I am interested in your experiences as to whether it is necessary. Bit of research for next time.
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Follow Up By: Member - Chris M (QLD) - Monday, Sep 13, 2004 at 13:47
Monday, Sep 13, 2004 at 13:47
Hi Darren,
To be honest, it steers like a new truck. But be warned, everything in it is new, so it's tight as...well, it's all tight. Was just actually showing mate on the M1 down the coast on the weekend, sat on both sides of the the 4 lane highway and it tracked straight, doesn't want to follow the dulations in the road, and is smooth, really comfy.
But I am comparing that to a GQ Patrol with 33 MTR's, 4 inch extra heavy duty springs, eliptical bushes and adjustable panhard rods. The 4 inch kit flung me all over the place, tracked terribly, but the balance of the wheels and alignment was never out. Never had probs with vibrations through the steering, and it got awesome travel. My trailing arm bushes flogged out in about 60,000 k's.
The 3 inch coils are also extra heavy duty or extreme I think they call them, but are a smaller guage, making them 'float' a little more over the bumps. To date and with 3000k's on the
suspension, I'm alot happier and not getting colon crush anymore.
Also the difference between a 3 inch and 4 inch kit in cost is around $1000, and 4-6 hours of time in my experience, (the 3 inch being cheaper in $$ and time).
I think narrower
tyres, newer truck and less mods extend themselves to a much better tourer that gets plenty of travel. Give me a hoy if you need anything else
Cheers
Chris.
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Follow Up By: DARREN - Monday, Sep 13, 2004 at 14:10
Monday, Sep 13, 2004 at 14:10
Thanks a lot Chris, Looking forward to the the shower chapter - your reports once fitted.
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Follow Up By: Member - Chris M (QLD) - Monday, Sep 13, 2004 at 14:12
Monday, Sep 13, 2004 at 14:12
No worries.
Shower getting fitted next Monday, so I'm thinking I should do up a basic website so all things I post can be links to the site. Much easier...
cheers.
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Reply By: Austravel - Monday, Sep 13, 2004 at 14:41
Monday, Sep 13, 2004 at 14:41
Thanks Chris,
On both accounts.
Hope it all goes as planned.
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Reply By: Mr Z - Monday, Sep 13, 2004 at 18:23
Monday, Sep 13, 2004 at 18:23
i look forward to seeing the results, i'm in melb so might pay a visit to ag diesel
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Reply By: rolande- Tuesday, Sep 14, 2004 at 21:19
Tuesday, Sep 14, 2004 at 21:19
Chris M,
These digs are only a bit of fun, you should see some of the Nissan / Toyota / Land Rover conversations we have at work, make the Ford/holden debate seem like 3 year olds.
All in good fun :)
P.S. Rosco really has been helpful to mates on Landy questions
Rolande
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Reply By: prado_95 - Friday, Sep 17, 2004 at 22:03
Friday, Sep 17, 2004 at 22:03
AG Diesel in Mulgrave do great work. They are honest down to earth people without the BS factor found at some
places. Ozzie is a genuine bloke.
The TD6 4.2 is a mechanical pump. It does have a couple of electrical connections for throttle position & fuel cut-off.
Additional boost alone will not achieve a whole lot. Get them to do their magic on the injector pump & turbo. Opening the exhaust exhaust needs to be complemented with other works for be most beificial.
The ZD30 3.0L engine injection pump is under electronic control. Simply mod it electronically with something like this module. Naturally an improved exhaust will allow the turbo to spin up a little faster too!
Dave
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