Channel Nine

About the only thing that interested me was the EXPLOROZ spare wheel cover on a 4WD.

Another media beatup. And I say this after a lifetime in publishing and advertising ... and 25-years of promoting Insurance Companies -- which is why I don't trust ANY of them!

But it certainly is amazing that anyone can still grant any credibility to the "One-man Committee" Harold Scruby!! He has never been interested in the facts ... instead he has only ever been interested in retaining access to taxpayer funds and personal aggrandisement.

As foe AAMI ... they too are grinding a corporate axe. It would be very, very interesting to see how the questions in their survey were worded. At the very least, I would guess that they were worded ambiguously so that they answers and "statistics" could be viewed in the best light for them and sensationalism.

While it is tempting to try and fight back, quite often it is better to let the matter die a natural death as some other "weighty matter" gains the attention of our "unbiased" media.

But then, it is also something that the four-wheel drive magazines should be tackling outside of their own pages, and the motor manufacturers and distributors should be getting stuck into.

We could, of course, simplify all road statistics by banning all private motor vehicles, motor cycle, push bikes, cabbies, buses, pedestrians etc.

In fact a good start would be to get rid of the arrogant and aggressive blond bimbos who drive erratically in their "buzz boxes" and cut in front of fourbies, vans and trucks with no consideration of the longer braking distance required.

But don't hold your breath ... there's no ideal world around the corner.

I actually thought that the ACA story was reasonably balanced!

Yes they showed the extreme views of Scruby but also had the guts to show a couple of users highlighting the positive sides of 4WD use (space, versitility, towing).

Sure there was lots of vision of them tootling around city streets which was not really balanced by vision of people enjoying them outside the cities. But what can you expect. I have seen far more one-sided and sensationalist stories on Ray Martins show about other issues.

Us 4WD owners do have to accept that these vehicles, the mid and full size ones particularly, ARE different vehicles to sedans and hatchbacks and that city driving is not their best use.

As usual it is the small minority of 4WD owners that give everyone else a bad name but at least they showed that woman in the Disco semingly being responsible and talking about being extra cautious in traffic.

Never thought I would say it about the reporting on ACA but "I have seen worse". And Scruby is still a ******!

Muddy 'doe

Muddy's thoughts pretty much mirror mine. The report was pretty well balanced, both sides had a fair say.

All seems pretty normal for companies with an agenda and for where they said 4x4 drivers talk on mobile phones more than people in std cars, what a load of garbage, Lets hope it dies a quick death before they get back onto bullbars again
Cheers
Tim

Scrubby what a d*#* head, think its the same 4WD bullbar as last time.

Our Pres. (vafwdc) Micheal did a good job and is way smarter than Sc, and the lady sounded good from the femanine side.

Sorry lads and lady, but you're sort of looking for the positive aspects ... but all the public will "see" and remember are the negatives.

There will also be the perception that:

"they got a nice lady to talk about four-wheel drives but she's one of very few ... and we already know from the survey results that owners and drivers of four-wheel drives are selfish, arrogant and tell lies. Mr Scruby must be right because he always says the same thing and is on the side of the poor pedestrians."

As others have said -- common sense is not common ... neither is the ability to be able to weigh up both sides of a discussion. Tell the lie often enough and it becomes the "truth"!!

The 1 in 5 sales being 4wd speaks for itself! It was interesting to hear that out of those figures the majority are "small" 4wd's. It wil not matter what anyone drives as there people that will bring the rest of us down. I suppose they will try and reintroduce the 4wd levy again as is the case with motorcyclists at the moment. Another way of scamming the paying public!

Well that was a waste of 10 mins of the day.

Absolute $&*%!$@ trash .

Sorry David, can't agree. May appear to be a waste of 10 minutes to the converted, but a source of dinner-table conversation and head-nodding for the anti brigade.

Muddy 'doe has asked a good question.

Obviously we all need to keep giving out positive vibes and correct information to anyone we talk to.

But vested interests have also got to do their share. As said before, manufacturers, distributors, service companies, parts and accessories suppliers, publishers ... bearing in mind that all of these have Industry Associations to which they belong and pay significant annual fees. Perhaps they, along with combined clubs associations should explore the matter of engaging a good PR company should be explored.

Doesn't need to be a concentrated, high cost campaign. Quite the reverse, should be a long-term fairly constant issuing of news, rebutting of false or misinterpreted statistics. And, especially news and releases about the help given to clean ups, re-afforestation, reporting of problems, help given to other organisations.

Well I have just been watching Channel 7. What a load of crap. They will want to ban buses, roadtrains and trucks next. It is obvious to all but the nieave person that if you drive too close, you cannot see around thes vehicles. I've been intimidated by all these types of vehicles as well as "ordinary" cars

Really!! I'm sick of that Harold Screwd-up, the pastey faced weasel. I think he is only interested in self gratification and our money. He's probably never had to do a decent days work in his life, just happy to suck what he can from the system. Anyway he's looking a bit long in the tooth these day , so just maybe he will be out of the limelight in the not too distant future. I must say, I like the hairstyle!!! very befitting.....

Hey,
I didn't watch any TV today as I usually don't, because it's usually full of $hit. Don't let any of these tossers opinions bother you in any way. From what I can gather, this post was about some media tosser slagging off 4WD drivers. The d1ckheads referred to in this slagging would obviously be the stereotype 4WD owners in inner cities that thier vehicles never leave the tarmac. No use complaining because those idiots would be nowhere near this forum anyway.

I am amazed that someone hasn't mentioned the other large vehicles such as Tarago's,Voyagers they put bull bars on them as well don't they. No one has said to ban them off the road.

KP

And then they had the story of the young drivers (Sorry NEW Drivers...some young drivers are OK) spining out and hitting witches hats. Hope that I am not the pedestrian around where these drives are, or I hope I am sitting in my safer 4WD ......

Who need a better licence check...the 4wd'ers, or the New Drivers

I got this email from 4wd megastores today, Vote now.......

The Herald Sun is conducting a phone poll with the question:

'Are 4WD vehicles more dangerous to other cars on the road?'

To vote NO call 1900 956 435

To vote YES call 1900 956 434

This message was authorised by:
Barry Chare
Secretary
Four Wheel Drive Victoria

Didn't see the prog (too busy preparing for tour of NSW outback starting tomorrow) but the debate is well-rehearsed by now. The facts are simple:
1. Most people are hostile to 4wds. That's to be expected, because most people live in cities and urban 4wds ARE a pain in the posterior.
2. Trouble is that most people don't understand what people like us use 4wds for. Of course they don't because it's not their world.
3. Given the weight of (urban) public opinion, politicians and media will jump on the bandwagon and demand taxes/restrictions/special licences/whatever.
4. We get enraged because what they're talking about is not reallu US, it's the suburban "Toorak tractors". But it will affect us, and we don't like it.
5. We benefit from the "Toorak tractors" because they keep our costs down: economies of scale, etc.
6. So we are tempted to defend the indefensible: and urban Landcruisers used simply to ferry the kids around, with bullbars as fashion accessories, are indefensible for all kinds of reasons.
The solution is probably to accept some restrictions on urban use - no bullbars, perhaps even special driver training requirements, punitive taxation, whatever - as long as the rights of people using 4wds for what they were intended for are preserved. Rural people, in particular, need protection.
Shouldn't be beyond the wisdom of man to sort out something which defuses the anger in the suburbs while preserving our rights...

The story was rubbish and meant nothing. There was no factual information, just opinions and survey results (of a very small portion of the public) based on peoples opinions.

I have been a Victorian Police Officer for the past 11 years and specialise in Traffic duties. (Yes, I'm a road natzi). Unfortunately, I have had to attend and investigate many fatal car accidents that I care to remember. None of which involved four wheel drives. Last year alone I attended four separate fatal accidents involving garbage collection trucks. Three pedestrians were killed and one worker who had fallen off the back of the truck. Do we see people voicing their opinion to ban them? The remaining fatal accidents I have attended have comprised mostly of Japanese Imported cars and other modified vehicles. Toyota Soarer, Nissan Skyline & Silvia, Subaru WRX, Holden VL Commodores etc. These vehicles were generally driven by young, inexperienced drivers. Add to the list a few heavy vehicles like semi trailers and B-doubles, throw in a number of farm accidents involving tractors and other agricultural machinery and the list would almost be complete.

I only attend the most serious of accidents and those that involve some form of injury, life threatening or not. I work in a busy area and usually attend to 3-5 accidents a shift which equates to about 500 accidents a year. Whilst writting this, I can only think of one accident I attended to that involved a four wheel drive and that was due to another driver running a red light and T-boning the four wheel drive at an intersection.

Are four wheel drive more dandgerous than other vehicles? Based on my first hand experience, No. Anyone in Victoria can obtain the true statistics by contacting the TAC (Transport Accident Commision) via the Freedom of Information Office. All accidents occuring in Victoria where Police attend or have ANY form of injury are recorded there. Those records are catergorized by vehicle type. ie motorbike, sedan, wagon, ute, 4x4, light truck, medium truck etc. I'm sure the other States/Territories will have a similar system.

No doubt Scruby has the integrity of a vegemite sandwich...but the undertone to all this is really that it is being used as a wedge to increase, via extra taxes licence fees etc, the costs of owning a 4x4.

Frankly I think that licences are too easily got. Yes I know if I was retested I probably would fail the test. I would however like to see retesting for people who say have more than 3 accidents in the term of their licence ie.evrey 5 years or whatever the licence period is. I do think that there should also be some sort of competancy based test for people wishing to tow caravans. I also think that there should be some type of psychological testing applied to licence applicants to weed out the aggressive types, and non thinkers, before we are allowed to become statistics in programs like this.
Scruby may be a 1 man band but someone is financing him and there in lies the root of the problem. Dont be surprised if it is not goverment finance!

All sounds strangely familar, only it was motorcycles they were trying too ban, on road (bikie scum) off road (hooligans destroying the bush.) "I can't win"

Baz.

Will be watching my phone bill cause me young bloke grabbed my mobile and started voting no.
Funny I live in the bush and do a lot of travelling in the bush and take on a few roos and pigs every now and again. Hmm worked what the bull bars are really for in a big hurry.
Next question, when I go to Brissie for the next 4WD and camping show will someone lend me a Hyundai for the weekend?
I know one thing, I wont be insuring with AAMI not that I do now.
Was good to see the lady in the 4WD on 7 speak up about it. Good on her. and I am sure there are heaps more.

Did anyone listen to the hypocrite "John (their a sponsor of mine) Laws" today.

He was saying that unless you go 4WDing, he can see no reason for anyone to buy a 4WD, and then in the next sentance said" Toyota Landcruisers are the best 4WD around and Toyota are a sponsor of mine" What a hypocrite.

What about those of us who by a 4WD for towing. There are plenty of people who live in cities and have a 4WD for just that purpose, be it for the trailer/camper/caravan/boat. Sure some of them don't go off road, but they might just need the 4WD to tow the 20' caravan because it is one of the only legal vehicles that can do the job. What are they supposed to do, leave the caravan and the 4WD on a property somewhere in the country so that they don't have a 4WD in the cities.

Its all just a load of crap from people who never leave the cities and sit in their Ivory towers on their soapbox and look at the world through rose coloured glasses while getting an overpriced education and a government handout.

Cruiser -- I would suggest that John Laws is no more immune to senility than "Ruby" Scruby and many other "do-gooders" who obviously know how to live your life better than you do.

I thought Australia was about freedom of choice and freedom of expression. So what if someone wants to work hard, pay $70K for a cruiser just to drop the kids off at school. Who has the right to tell any of us how to spend our money? Trying to justify why we bought a 4wd just plays into their hands.As long as the vehicals we drive on the roads are legal IE rego insurance and RWC I say tell em you bought coz you liked it and then walk away.
Nuff said Nino

Hi All making my First post here...

I am a female 4wder and in another life I was an interstate truck driver (mobile car Park), so I am a little peeved at some of the comments on the show last night.

But when driving around town I dont drive the cruiser, I drive my little matchbox Barina and I cant believe the amount of times I have been butt hugged by over zealous 4wd's driven by aggressive housewives, that these women who use them for shopping carts and drop offs at school give the rest of us females who love getting out and dirty in our 4wd's a bad name. But I have also had the same thing happen by cars as well, its just that the 4wd looks bigger in the rear view mirror and is more scarier I guess, so the problem sticks in the mind a bit more

But what about these "new" drivers in their hotted up vehicles who play Russian Roulette on the road just to get past you. We nearly got wiped out several times on our trip to Canberra last weekend, all because we werent sitting 10km's or more over the limit so we werent going fast enough.

The most annoying part of last nights show for us...the bit about we use our mobile phones more while driving...what about the large amount of executives in the city that you see in their sports cars doing the same, and the young teeny boppers texting while driving?.

Its something that will always be something to argue about, like Ford and Holden, just another part of the Aussie Tradition I guess.....

Hi everyone,
I did not see the show last night but sounds if there was some real bashing going on. My experience is my family needed a bigger transport solution and so we did the rounds looking at people movers etc ,but ended up buying a Jackaroo 4wd instead.The cost was cheaper than a people mover, it fits us all in ,has good fuel consumption being desiel as good as falcons etc when fully loaded and we can have some great family holidays in the bush ,so its has a dual use for us.
I am struggling to see how they would ban 4wd in cities etc .Around Bunbury (which is a city )there is 1000,s of 4wd. Vineyards,farmers,earth moving contactors and the power utility i work for has a fleets of them to perform there work safely and to get to our infrastructure.
The pressure will come to bear if the minority gains momentem, through big bussiness and and small business alike .This may be insurance driven thing behind the scenes and time will tell on outcome.If we are all responsible and curtious on the road it will blow over.The concerns i have is the access to thes fabulous places we have in this country.With 25% of vechiles sold being 4wd the pressure on our fabulous holiday destinations is evident.I for one am trying to show my kids the delights of the wilderness by seeing as much as we can before Dept Calm lock it all up and it becomes regulated.
So if we all respect our destinations through no impact/tread lightly we will see them around for many years to come.

Happy travels

Darryl

what is wrong with you people in sydney - why can't you control your politicians and the other morons you seem to be producing? as for a current affair - of far more importance is what is happening with skye on neighbours so maybe if we all just dropped a hint to the people who advertise on 9 that aca is off the watch list then maybe a change will come about. anyway where is the follow up from ford / holden / toyota and nissan. surely they have more to lose than us but they seem to be satisfied with all that is happening. rgds

Sometimes it is pointless trying to shadow box all the criticisms, most reasonably minded people will usually draw their own conclusions, unreasonable people will never be convinced in any case.

As a group who own and enjoy four-wheel driving the responsibility falls to us to ensure that we all conduct ourselves in a way so as to make the irrational debate about four-wheel drives obsolete.

Easy said than done I hear many say, but the more of us that do the right thing – the better!

This is our best form of defence.

Landie

As a footnote to my previous post, it is worth noting that all the major news networks use four-wheel drives, with satellite dishes on top, to get around the city – odd world isn’t it!

Landie