Petrol or Diesel ???

Submitted: Thursday, Oct 07, 2004 at 08:38
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Can anyone tell me the benefits of diesel over petrol, i understand the diesel engines are better for towing, but i have heard that they are also better in the water crossings and wet areas
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Reply By: Truckster (Vic) - Thursday, Oct 07, 2004 at 08:50

Thursday, Oct 07, 2004 at 08:50
How long is a piece of string?

What do you want to do with the truck?

Diesels last longer, are cheaper to maintain, go MUCH further on a tank of fuel.. SOME petrols HATE water.. no sparkplugs etc on a Diesel. But diesels HATE water even more when sucked into the motor. you will destroy it in a Diesel, where a petrol MAYNOT die.

Again, more info on what youwant.

also search the archives, its been done 2903482304892040234890293802590190578901237859078 times before.
AnswerID: 79178

Follow Up By: Austravel - Thursday, Oct 07, 2004 at 16:47

Thursday, Oct 07, 2004 at 16:47
I would have said diesels are dearer to maintain compared to petrol. More oil, dearer fuel and oil filters and more services.
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Follow Up By: jon jenkins - Thursday, Oct 07, 2004 at 21:05

Thursday, Oct 07, 2004 at 21:05
Hi

My main comments are about travelling in remote areas.

1: One thing to consider if you are traevelling in the outback is that many of the more remote communities are petrol free and only sell diesel.

2: Diesel is safer to transport and store but is smelly on the hands and clothes (I keep gloves in the fuel filler).

3: Generally you will also get better fuel ecconomy although diesel will cost about 10% extra from now on (all our diesel now comes from Singapore!)

4: Modern diesels have quite good service intervals IF you use good oil but some older ones don't: my 2000 GU requires 10 litres of oil every 5000km. I extend this to about 10k with a good diesel oil (e.g. I use Mobil Delvac HP cos Mobil do free analysis of when oil changes needed but any other will do just as well).

5: More expensive to maintain if they break! A 4.2 TD will cost in excess of $10k to rebuild if you cook it. I have fitted two temperature gauges with alarms to mine (head and turbo) just in case.

6: Power is less than petrol, if you are into the real hard stuff then petrol is the way to go.

7: I find diesel better for towing: I can chug around town in 4th with a couple of tonne behind me. But forget overtaking on the open road unless you have a long wind up!

8: I do most of the servicing on my diesel cos its simple and quick. With all the new computer driven petrol engines this is probably not possible. Others may care to comment.

So in summary if bulk of travel is in the city or in rural areas petrol is probably the go. However if remote travel or long distance towing is the desire then diesel may be better in the long run.

jon

Dr Jon Jenkins MLC www
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Follow Up By: Bob of KAOS - Thursday, Oct 07, 2004 at 21:09

Thursday, Oct 07, 2004 at 21:09
More services? 20,000km service interval suits me OK.
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Follow Up By: Member - Jimbo (VIC) - Thursday, Oct 07, 2004 at 21:21

Thursday, Oct 07, 2004 at 21:21
Diesels are cheaper to maintain?

I think Truckster's on drugs.

If you take ALL of the costs into consideration, you will find a petrol more economical and better performing.

Get a large capacity petrol on LPG and you'll laugh all the way to the bank.
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Thursday, Oct 07, 2004 at 21:59

Thursday, Oct 07, 2004 at 21:59
Petrol more economical? Whose on drugs?
I get 14/100
petrols get 20/100

austravel, you can get further on 100ltrs of diesel compared to 100ltrs of petrol... so how can that be more expensive?

Petrol engines you service at 5000 or 10000 same as diesels, both have filters both you change.... and diesels can go 20,000klms on recommended services....

YCMV
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Thursday, Oct 07, 2004 at 22:04

Thursday, Oct 07, 2004 at 22:04
PS. Try gettin LPG in remote areas.
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Follow Up By: Member - Jimbo (VIC) - Thursday, Oct 07, 2004 at 22:46

Thursday, Oct 07, 2004 at 22:46
I said take ALL costs into consideration.

Not just L/100km.

Diesels have costs that petrols don't.

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Follow Up By: Mad Dog (Victoria) - Thursday, Oct 07, 2004 at 23:17

Thursday, Oct 07, 2004 at 23:17
>PS. Try gettin LPG in remote areas.

But it makes getting to and back from those remote areas which could be a coupla thou a darn site cheaper. Then there's the daily running around the town, to work, day or weekend trips. The only time petrol is a pita is when/where you can't buy it. I've been a fan of LPG for over 10 years, never given me any trouble and it's saved me thousands of dollars.
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Reply By: Member - Chris M (QLD) - Thursday, Oct 07, 2004 at 08:51

Thursday, Oct 07, 2004 at 08:51
A very interesting discussion took place some weeks ago regarding this topic. In the end, it depends on a lot of variables.

If you search diesel and/or petrol, you will most likely find the thread.

I'm a diesel man, but there are petrol men out there as well. I'm avoiding completely answering your question as GO_OFF...road loves petrols and we will all be wrong who answer diesel.

Diesels are great for water crossings as long as you get clean dry air to the motor whilst crossing. If you don't, they hydrolic and cost alot more to fix than a petrol motor that swallows water. If you cross with a petrol, fit a plastic sheet to form a bow wave in front and prevent water from pouring in on the spark plugs and electricals.

In the end, I would always go diesel soley for reliability and ease of servicing.

Cheers mate, and good luck.
AnswerID: 79179

Follow Up By: warthog - Thursday, Oct 07, 2004 at 09:43

Thursday, Oct 07, 2004 at 09:43
Chris, I have read about your power up on the td6 and i read that you have installed a pyrometer and boost guage. I was wondering if you could tell me where in the car you placed the guages and what brand plus roughly how much they cost. I was thinking maybe a dash pod from consoles.com but maybe you had a cheaper way.
Thanks Chris.

I too like diesels, better low down torque and fuel economy, which is why there are no longer many petrol powered trucks around, I have yet to see apetrol powered road train, the first trailer would need to be a fuel tender.
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Thursday, Oct 07, 2004 at 09:47

Thursday, Oct 07, 2004 at 09:47
I have my EGT, temp and Boost gauges in a dashpod. looks sweet. keep ya eye on ebay, they turn up there and are cheaper.. or make your own.
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Follow Up By: Ian from Thermoguard Instruments - Thursday, Oct 07, 2004 at 10:11

Thursday, Oct 07, 2004 at 10:11
Hi Warthog,

Could I slip in here a quick "please consider"?
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Follow Up By: Member - Chris M (QLD) - Thursday, Oct 07, 2004 at 11:01

Thursday, Oct 07, 2004 at 11:01
Warthog,

What's your email address? I'll take some pics and email them to you.

FYI, I had my autolecky make up a little pod to hold them. The pyro's worth about $380.00, and the boost round about $80.00. I like analogue gauges myself, Ian's from thermoguard look good though, so leave it to you what you want.

Thanks mate!

Chris.
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Follow Up By: warthog - Thursday, Oct 07, 2004 at 15:06

Thursday, Oct 07, 2004 at 15:06
Thanks Chris, e-mail is parrottopolous@yahoo.com.au
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Follow Up By: GO_OFFROAD - Friday, Oct 08, 2004 at 10:01

Friday, Oct 08, 2004 at 10:01
Chris M, you will note, having done the sums many times on vehicle purchases, and curently driving a turbo diesel vehicle, and the discussion was re petrol/diesel 80 series, in case anyone wishes to search for the data I put in that post, compared to the "opinions" most people report.

And if you have had petrol, and go to diesel, the performance difference is frustrating, at the least......

Now anyone who thinks a diesel is cheaper to maintain isnt following the maintenance schedule, and service intervals arent the same.

As far as economy goes, like the last topic, here are some fuel figures from trips, so people can make thier own decision.

economy run

simpson trip
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Follow Up By: Member - Chris M (QLD) - Friday, Oct 08, 2004 at 10:32

Friday, Oct 08, 2004 at 10:32
I'm not going to argue with you in regards to this topic as I feel that the last post became a little over the top. Having only owned several ranges of vehicles with different mods ie. a petrol GQ Patrol LWB, Diesel SWB GQ, 1.3L Suzuki, 2.4TD SWB Bundera, 3.5 V8 Range Rover, V8 Disco and the current TDI GU, I guess I'm in no place to comment.

Having only travelled to most major cities in Australia in both Petrols and Diesels, as most on this forum most likely have leaves us...I guess with no good information to pass on.

You will notice in my post however that I have listed the some pros and cons of both motors.

From my own experience, diesels have been cheaper to service and run.

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Follow Up By: GO_OFFROAD - Friday, Oct 08, 2004 at 11:18

Friday, Oct 08, 2004 at 11:18
you said
"From my own experience, diesels have been cheaper to service and run."

after I said
"Now anyone who thinks a diesel is cheaper to maintain isnt following the maintenance schedule"

And we can all save by skimping, no matter what fuel it uses, but perhaps Chris, you can supply some sums which may help those that ask how you determined one was cheaper to run than the other, rather than just saying it is?

That is why I supplied data, not arguements, regardless of how its interpreted. ;-)

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Follow Up By: Member - Chris M (QLD) - Friday, Oct 08, 2004 at 11:35

Friday, Oct 08, 2004 at 11:35
I run several businesses and my accountant, whom I'm assuming knows what he talks about has advised that I continue buying diesel vehicles as they are, short and long term a much more commercially and financially viable vehicle to purchase and maintain. Call me an idiot but I listen to him. I'm pretty sure he's not in cahoots with the fuel and/or car industry. Depreciation, and resale play a very large part in this calculation.

My vehicles are maintained every 4,500 kilometres. This includes 2 oil filters and oil. Every 9,000 the air filter is changed and every 18,000, the fuel.

Not only do my vehicles run better, but they also by servicing slightly more regularly get me better resale. In Brisbane, I'm paying around $1.00 per litre and with my lovely 4 cent discount at shell, $0.96.

My GU gets, and this is at the rears mind you, 428nm at 2000rpm. All of this with economy and reliability. When I travelling, I needn't worry about tuning, plugs, dizzy's, leads. I do sensible creek crossings without a tarp, I tow and overtake with the same ease as a petrol, I have engine braking down inclines when 4wding. Don't want to use the pedal to get over the obstacle, chug over at 300rpm with the locker in. All of this to me makes the diesel a better vehicle.

And to be honest, even if my diesel cost me more, I'd still buy it because of it's advantages.

And original cost, well that all depends on whose buying!

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Follow Up By: GO_OFFROAD - Friday, Oct 08, 2004 at 18:32

Friday, Oct 08, 2004 at 18:32
Well thats great we knowitsuits you, and what you and your accountant think, and if we were to quote individual fgures outside of standard [like my turbo 80 4.5 which got 11.2 lt per 100km with 220kw and 520nm @ the rear wheels] but none of that is really relevent to the original question, because without data, its still only opinion.

Have you actually compared the costs?

I know I have, and I cant make a diesel cheaper to run, even running a small fleet of cars which would average 80,000km + per year each.
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Follow Up By: warthog - Saturday, Oct 09, 2004 at 01:09

Saturday, Oct 09, 2004 at 01:09
I see no petrol powered 4bys in the fleets of larger companies that run them here in Alice, Telstra, Railway maintenance. Surely there is a rational reason for this or have the bean counters lost their say, or done their sums incorrectly
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Follow Up By: GO_OFFROAD - Saturday, Oct 09, 2004 at 11:55

Saturday, Oct 09, 2004 at 11:55
Well thats a very good snap shot of a small part of a bigger picture, but Im sure you knew that, hence you have said "surely there is a reason for this".

Larger companies dont generally keep the vehicles past the pump/injector service period, they usually employ diesel mechanics, and with trains, they buy the fuel to run them discounted, and out into more remote area's when based in the alice.

Fleet pricing also tips the scales in a different way, as well as state based fuel taxes.

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Reply By: Lone Wolf - Thursday, Oct 07, 2004 at 09:01

Thursday, Oct 07, 2004 at 09:01
This answer is a little left field.

Went through some rough country, and 2 of the jerries in the back leaked. I run a diesel, if it was petrol, I would have been chroming big time!

Now, down side? Okay..... when you fill it up at the bowser, you always get smelly hands!

Not what you really wanted to know, but hey....... it's the truth, and guess what..... EVERYONE would agree with the 2 things I just pointed out!

I run both, but I do prefer my diesel.............. just because......... no reason..........

Cheers

Wolfie
AnswerID: 79180

Follow Up By: Zapper - Thursday, Oct 07, 2004 at 09:09

Thursday, Oct 07, 2004 at 09:09
Lone Wolf

How do you like your Delica? My little sister and her husband are thinking about buying one but dont know a huge amount about them..

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Follow Up By: Will - Thursday, Oct 07, 2004 at 10:23

Thursday, Oct 07, 2004 at 10:23
Hi Wolfie, I keep a garden type glove in the fuel filler compartment to keep my hands clean when filling up diesel. I amazes me that the servos dont keep the diesel pumps and surrounds clean, if the petrol pumps were left the same way people wouldnt use them. (thats my moan for the day, or probably not -:)
Will
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Reply By: ev700 - Thursday, Oct 07, 2004 at 09:16

Thursday, Oct 07, 2004 at 09:16
I'm getting a 4.2 auto turbo diesel. Need it for trips - 3 kids a bigger now and the Falcon is uncomfortable for them + gear.

However for the 1 000 X 1-5 km trips done by the spouse each day the petrol shopping trolley works best. Can't believe the number of short trips that car does every day!
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Reply By: Lone Wolf - Thursday, Oct 07, 2004 at 09:18

Thursday, Oct 07, 2004 at 09:18
I am quite happy with it.

Ground clearance is an issue I'm dealing with at the moment, but everything else is fine.

I would put it in the same category as say a Pajero as far as specs go.

Try this site... Delica Club

Cheers

Wolfie

AnswerID: 79184

Reply By: locallaw - Thursday, Oct 07, 2004 at 09:41

Thursday, Oct 07, 2004 at 09:41
Gidday,What would you prefer.The beautiful aroma of a magnificent diesel or the pungent rotten egg stink of a unleaded fuel guzzling petrol motor.
You choose
Seeya Locallaw
AnswerID: 79188

Reply By: Member - John C (QLD) - Thursday, Oct 07, 2004 at 09:55

Thursday, Oct 07, 2004 at 09:55
No.1 for me was diesel is generally avlb at more remote places.
Cheaper economy, although dearer than petrol at the moment.
and it's the 'workhorse' feel.
AnswerID: 79189

Reply By: Will - Thursday, Oct 07, 2004 at 10:03

Thursday, Oct 07, 2004 at 10:03
Hi Mark, I have a Turbo diesel Jackaroo and a mate has a petrol Jackaroo, the diesels develope there power and torque at different revs then the petrol, making your choice of petrol over diesel a personel decision on the type of driving you want to do, if there is no other reason to chose one over the other.
I chose a diesel for 1) economy 2) ease of servicing.
My friend frequently uses 5 litres of fuel per 100 k's more than me, so at todays prices to do the same driving that can be $6 per 100 k's more for the same distance.
Servicing I believe is easier because for routine servicing it is simply a matter of changing the oil and filter, admittably though the diesel usually has its oil changed a bit more frequently, but no spark plugs to worry about, and on some of todays petrol V6's you have to remove the intake system to change 3 of the plugs. It only needs to be done at 100,000 K's but the plugs are $25-$30 plus labour.
One over thing to consider is, todays diesels are much easier to drive and sometimes you would not even know you are driving a diesel.
Hope this in some ways helps,
Will
AnswerID: 79191

Follow Up By: Terry - Thursday, Oct 07, 2004 at 11:20

Thursday, Oct 07, 2004 at 11:20
Yeah the Mitsubishi Triton V6 being a good example of having fun changing the spark plugs.Never ever complained about working on the hemi 6 in my Valiant after changing the plugs on my GLS Triton lol.Apart from that it`s alright.Handled everything I`ve thrown at it... plenty of power on tap it`s just a bit thirsty if pushed.
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Reply By: theshadows - Thursday, Oct 07, 2004 at 14:58

Thursday, Oct 07, 2004 at 14:58
If you want to tow a heavy tralier over 100kph then yes get a larger petrol or a very large TDI .However towing under 1200 kg it starts to get murky.

this arguement been going on since some one got pushed of a boat many years ago.{france to usa want it?}

Fact diesels cost more.
Fact price of Diesel costs more.
Fact Diesels cost more to service and you do it more offen.
Fact water into a diesel motor will destroy it with bent rods snpped crankshfts and broken pistons.
Fact diesels are noisey and smelly to fuel up.
Fact with comon rail injection new diesels ave the same new electrics as found in petrols to break down now.
Fact diesel are underpowered and slow.

Fact I love my oily smelly slug of a Diesel.

shadow
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Thursday, Oct 07, 2004 at 22:03

Thursday, Oct 07, 2004 at 22:03
>> Fact Diesels cost more to service and you do it more offen.
No you dont.
>> Fact water into a diesel motor will destroy it with bent rods snpped crankshfts and broken pistons.
Will do it on a petrol too, I have photos of Ron in Coopers creek with $5000 damage with rods thru the block in his petrol surf.

>> Fact diesels are noisey and smelly to fuel up.
Yes, I admit petrol quite as church mice, and smells like roses.

>> Fact with comon rail injection new diesels ave the same new electrics as found in petrols to break down now.
Stick with old ones.

>> Fact diesel are underpowered and slow.
Not all.
FACT a Diesel won Le Mans 24 hour race....
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Follow Up By: GO_OFFROAD - Friday, Oct 08, 2004 at 10:04

Friday, Oct 08, 2004 at 10:04
I call bullsh1t!

And if you were like most asking truckster,a nd buying new, not 15 yr old, you would need to actually do the sums, and then you may even get to climb the hills when you come with me ;-)
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Reply By: Mike-TS - Thursday, Oct 07, 2004 at 23:45

Thursday, Oct 07, 2004 at 23:45
I went through this for about a year and couldn't make my mind up.

Eventually I did the raw calculations and ignored emotions.

If you do the calcs the petrol makes more sense.

Example:

1999 GXL LC100

Petrol A$35k, 18 l/100km, A$1/litre
Diesel A$42k, 12 l/100km, A$1.10/litre

It takes about 100,000 km until they are equal in expenditure and that's not counting the 10,000 km services for petrol and 5,000 km services for diesel!

I do 25,000 km a year - I'd never be finished servicing the bloody thing!!!

Plus I do 99% onroad mileage and the wife does 80% of that and she'd only fill a diesel up with petrol!!!

QED.

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Follow Up By: Member - Jimbo (VIC) - Friday, Oct 08, 2004 at 06:47

Friday, Oct 08, 2004 at 06:47
Spot on Mike.

There's also the extra $7K you have inveted in it, that'll cost you at least another $550 a year in interest.
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Follow Up By: warthog - Friday, Oct 08, 2004 at 09:44

Friday, Oct 08, 2004 at 09:44
Resale value, longevity,low down torque for 4wheel driving and towing+fuel economy,reliability for mechanical injection anyway, and I like the tunability.These are the reasons I went for for my 4.2td Gu. Its horses for courses though,I reckon any way, it weighs 2.5 tonne empty and is not shopping centre carpark friendly for my wife particularly (she backed over the letter box before we had moved into the house, new one is now concreted in and she has to take the fence out to get to it). We would only get about 4 for the eb pord pelican so we kept it for the run about/shopping jeep.
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Reply By: GO_OFFROAD - Friday, Oct 08, 2004 at 10:25

Friday, Oct 08, 2004 at 10:25
And if your in Melb, you will be paying about 9c a litre more for diesel currently, which would mean on a average cruiser fill [150lt] you get about 14 lt more fuel for your money.

So if you got a 4.5 petrol cruiser, spent purchase price saving on unichip tune, the average consumption seems to be around 15lt per 100km from owners, which means 150 lt would give you 1000km. [20lt per 100 km standard would be 750km]

If you have a gu/gq, td cruiser, 1hz or factory turbo 12lt per 1000km is going to be the average, at least, [probably more like 13-15lt] which means 1250km from 150 lt.

Add another 14lt in price difference here is another 90km, which makes 140km per 150 lt difference, then you have to service the diesel cruiser every 4 150lt tank fulls, compared to every 8 150lt tank fulls on the petrol, so if we add a $230 service on to the 600km further you travelled, which is about 80 lt, or $90 in fuel, between services, that means there is about $50 advantage to the petrol at the 10k service, and if you then do the sums on a dist cap, leads and 2 sets of plugs [$400] vs scheduled pump and injector servicing at 100k [$2000-3000] on top of the $50 x 10 to 100k you have saved on running/servicing, and minus the interest,a nd extra money you paid to get the diesel, then long term the No's will always stack the petrol to be better off.

Then, if we took the diesel turbo and intercooler they use to get them to perfom 3/4 like a petrol, and added them to the petrol motor, then we have diesel economy, and unmatched performance.

Did you know a 4.5 petrol 100 series motor makes more torque at 800rpm, than a 1hz diesel cruiser engine makes in total?

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Follow Up By: Member - Chris M (QLD) - Friday, Oct 08, 2004 at 10:38

Friday, Oct 08, 2004 at 10:38
It only produces 387NM max?
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Follow Up By: GO_OFFROAD - Friday, Oct 08, 2004 at 11:20

Friday, Oct 08, 2004 at 11:20
Glad to see thats all you have to question from that post. ;-)

And yes, the petrol is 387nm, and the 1hz makes 286nm, and the 4.5 petrol makes 312nm @ 800rpm.
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Follow Up By: Member - Chris M (QLD) - Friday, Oct 08, 2004 at 11:37

Friday, Oct 08, 2004 at 11:37
I think we're successfully discussing that above anyway!
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