Series 80 L/Cruiser clutch shudder

Submitted: Sunday, Aug 11, 2002 at 00:00

ThreadID: 1690 Views:5848 Replies:6 FollowUps:5

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Geoff-2

I have a 1997 HZJ80 L/Cruiser 5 spd manual Waggon that has a
shuddering clutch,strangely enough it is not so bad when it is cold
but when everything is warmed up 40klms or so it will sometimes
take off reasonably smoothly ,other times it can vary from a slight
shudder,to a make you swear and spit shudder? depending on degree
of load ie:taking off slightly up hill,worse in reverse!.
The vehicle has 74000 ks and I presently have app 2000ks
left on used vehicle warranty and would like to get it fixed obviously.
Problem is when I present to dealer for warranty repair,
the problem does not reveal itself to them as it does to me as for some
strange reason it is intermittent ?
When taking off in first or reverse it is necessary to keep
revs down to almost stalling speed and let clutch straight out and it will take with a slight shudder which i am told is normal for my vehicle,
but slip the clutch for any reason, as in easing out of a busy, tight,
parking spot in reverse[ people everyware] with the slightest up hill
slope it will buck so bad i have to disengage clutch and use low range
to reverse out .
Upon expressing my dissatisfaction to the dealer in writing
he said that he would be prepared to pull clutch out but if he cannot
find anthing wrong i will have to pay for the exercise,from my limited
experience it is not always possible to tell by looking at pressure plate
clutch plate etc ie:weak springs and such. and as it would be his mech
doing the autopsy it would put me between the rock and that hard
place.
There has been mention made on the forum as to the
composition of clutch plate material re:asbestos, has anyone on the forum
had experience with this problem, or have a tale to tell, or can advise me
of a better type of clutch material,i have been told by a local clutch
centre that i could fit a new clutch and still have same problem as
Toyota do not know the answer either?
Apologies for such a long question any advice appreciated
Geoff-2

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Reply By: Gray - Sunday, Aug 11, 2002 at 00:00

Sunday, Aug 11, 2002 at 00:00

I also have a 97 HZJ80, I also had similar problem when new, The dealers response was that i was not use to the larger vehicle. I had to tell him to stick his other foot in his mouth because i had traded a 300k 90 model, So his second response was to give it time to develop. I had found a 2nd gear take-off was a less shudder. The gear box was rebuilt 3 times during the shuddering time and clutch was inspected once, nothing found and refitted. But what had a surprising result was having several attempts at a sand dune and the clutch overheated,smelt bad too. A mechanic asked if i wanted to book it in. The funny thing is that 100 000 ks later, it's still works 90% better than it did new. Go figure. I can't say my dealer was very oblidging. They had to have more than one attempt to fix anything.

AnswerID: 5600

Follow Up By: Geoff-2 - Tuesday, Aug 13, 2002 at 00:00

Tuesday, Aug 13, 2002 at 00:00

Gray
Thanks for reply and your story about the run in with the not so friendly
sand dune,I have done a third gear clutch slip until I got a slight wiff
of the obvious,and guess what the problem is very much improved.
The problem is still evedent and Iwould not like to do this on a regular basis but, big improvement.this does point to the composition
of the clutch plate linings.
Geoff-2

FollowupID: 2440

Follow Up By: Shaun - Wednesday, Sep 04, 2002 at 00:00

Wednesday, Sep 04, 2002 at 00:00

I don't know whether this would apply, but I have a 1995 HZJ75RV-MRQ 75 series. I started experiencing the shudder round about the 80,000km stage, then went for a spot of mud driving and overheated my clutch. Saw the white smoke coming out from underneath and let it cool off for a bit. Surprisingly, ever since then (i've clocked 182,000km so far on the original clutch) it's still smooth as silk from take off and reversing. Strange isn't it!!?! - Cheers, Shaun - WA.

FollowupID: 2806

Reply By: Geoff-2 - Monday, Aug 12, 2002 at 00:00

Monday, Aug 12, 2002 at 00:00

Gray
You must have been so ###### with your dealer I think we can all
relate to your experience as we have all been there.It is amazing
how problems dissapear when they take vehicle for test drive,HA ha and how
they can suggest that your driving tech may be at fault.Ha ha.
I find it very interesting that after" smoking" up the clutch there
was an obvious and lasting improvement,this together with a reply from
Simon on Aug 3rd that people he knows had clutch plate refaced with
asbestos material and that fixed problem, it all points to Toyota trying
to eliminate asbestos from their manufacturing process for obvious
reasons,If refacing clutch plate with conventional linings will save my
gearbox and my sanity,HOW? WHEN? WHERE? WHO would I go to about
having it done? maybe my local clutch man? any suggestions from
anyone most welcome.I live on Central Coast NSW.
Gray thanks for your input
Geoff-2

AnswerID: 5604

Reply By: Member - Karl - Monday, Aug 12, 2002 at 00:00

Monday, Aug 12, 2002 at 00:00

Hi, I have a 91 Series 80 and have experienced the shudder. On doing some research through various magazines, web sites etc I am looking at making my Series 80 a part time drive instead of constant full time drive by adding one of the kits out there on the market, eg Marks Adaptors or 4wd Systems. These manufacturers talk about a 'drive line backlash' and I think this is the shudder we are feeling. Hope this helps.

AnswerID: 5618

Follow Up By: Geoff-2 - Tuesday, Aug 13, 2002 at 00:00

Tuesday, Aug 13, 2002 at 00:00

KARL
Some mechanics that I have spoken to do make mention of
driveline problems that can give this impression of clutch shudder,but
as my Cruiser is only a base model and has free wheeling hubs I feel
that the clutch is the problem in my case.But having said that,and taking
on board your observations,when in reverse, and as I previously
mentioned backing out of tight parking spot in busy car park and slightly
uphill,and,having no alternative but to slip the clutch,WHEN the shudder
begins,(the drive train does join in)and shudder will continue until I
disengage the clutch.I might add that my gearbox is a good one and I
would like to keep it that way.
If we all add our two cents worth to problems that are experienced
by forum users then there is more chance of us comming up with good
solutions.
Geoff-2

FollowupID: 2438

Reply By: Steve - Monday, Aug 12, 2002 at 00:00

Monday, Aug 12, 2002 at 00:00

Karl : WRONG... 'driveline backlash ' is not what we are talking about !! ... Clutch judder is a common 'problem' which is part and parcel of an 80 series ( and apparently the 100 series) landcruisers....It is more noticable when cold but after initial start up it goes away and while annoying will not ( as far as I am aware ) cause detriment to the drive train... It is annoying, but apparently nothing fixes the problem !! Anyone know how long the clutches can last ? I have 180kms on the clock on a 1996 model and it has given me the same grief since day one !
steve

AnswerID: 5625

Follow Up By: Geoff-2 - Tuesday, Aug 13, 2002 at 00:00

Tuesday, Aug 13, 2002 at 00:00

Steve
Its a wonder you have have any hair left, 180,000 ks of shudder
for some reason my cruiser is ok when cold and shudder when hot???
I have inquired from the following- Nrma Technical,Toyota Technical,and several clutch repairers re- our problem, and the life
expectancy of our cruiser clutches but they all give the same answer
that it all depends on how we drive the vehicle.
But as I said to Gray in previous follow up the damn thing has
improved since I did a 3rd gear clutch slip.
Geoff-2

FollowupID: 2441

Follow Up By: Gray - Thursday, Aug 15, 2002 at 00:00

Thursday, Aug 15, 2002 at 00:00

re clutch lasting ? My 1st 80 a 90 std model shuddered from purchase at 120ks through to 300ks, smoked it a couple of times, never got better
never got worse, i think it's something to live with. I had looked at trading it at 260ks, dealer told me the clutch was stuffed but 12 months later same clutch. From what i've seen from changing clutches generally the shudder is still everdent to verying degrees.

FollowupID: 2484

Reply By: Steve - Tuesday, Aug 13, 2002 at 00:00

Tuesday, Aug 13, 2002 at 00:00

Geoff 2 : For me , its not a life and death problem, more a bit of bother and more obvious after I have driven the 'boss's' little (also manual) frizbee!! As I am loosing hair-- I have reached that age ... i'm not real bothered, but the judder/shudder exists and I am a machinery sensitive person and dont lose sleep over it... seeing as it seems to be a minor irritation more than a problem worth worrying about... steve

AnswerID: 5653