So, I walk in to the boss...

You don't need to replace the torsion bars to get a lift though. You can adjust the std ones for the same height. You tend to only need to replace them if you bang on a steel bull bar and then a winch which are both heavy items.

Leroy

Pat, thank-you.

Luckily, the Delica is a grey import, and everything is written in Japanese!!

Be my luck to get pulled over by a bloody exchange student cop............

Cheers

Wolfie

Navaraman

I checked the legislation in SA. No reference to diameter increases, lots about speed ratings.

I think you may find that the diameter restrictions do not apply in SA but I stand to be corrected.

I can guarantee 15mm is it.....In SA....

Wolfie,

I have put bigger tyres on my prado. They are Cooper A/T 265/70R17 whereas the tyre placard states the recommended size is 265/65R17. Based on the mathematical formula that is a diameter increase of 26.5mm. Way above the 15mm allowed.

I went to this size because that was all that was available in 17" tyres at the time with half decent off road toughness and wear characteristics. The original tyres supplied with the vehicle were highway tyres and were crap!

There is a school of thought that interprets the tyre laws (here in SA) thus:-

The tyre manufacturers are allowed a 3% differential on the theoretical dimension of a tyre (width x aspect ratio + rim size) for actual size. The legislated 15mm increase would then be on top of the largest actual size.

In the case of my GXL Prado a standard 265/65R17 tyre is mathematically 776.3mm diameter.

Applying a 3% tolerance for manufacturing differences means that a tyre of that size could be anywhere between 753.0mm and 799.6mm.

Applying a 15mm increase to the largest size gives a maximum of 814.6mm diameter. My tyres are listed by the manuafacturer in their catalogue as being 31.4" or 797.6mm so I would argue that they are legal even though they are more than 15mm above the theoretical size od the standard tyre.

The point is that the appropriate legislation and the Australian Vehicle Standards and Design Rules (and I have researched this quite extensively) are so open to interpretation that you would have no trouble creating doubt in the minds of the judiciary or a jury that you are legal should it ever come to a trial in the event of an incident if you go for a moderate increase in tyre size up to 3% of standard for your vehicle + 15mm. Above that you will need certification by a qualified engineer.

Cheers
Muddy 'doe

Hi Muddy,

The problem with using the 3% argument is that you also have to apply the same +/- 3% to the new tyre size.

So if your new tyre is in the -3% range, then no prob. But if it's upto +3%, then at 821.5mm the argument is blown way out of the water as the potential difference between standard and new is now anywhere from -25mm (can you imagine buying the bigger tyre with a 25mm drop?) upto +68mm.

You're absolutely right though, it's way open to interpretation.

However, 3% is a huge tolerance. Are you sure it's not .03%?

So, like don't mess with it?

I don't want to go about stressing other bits of the vehicle.

Cheers

Wolfie

Hi Wolfie

I was going to drop around a see you tomorrow evening. About 5:30pm at work?

Spoke to our friendly TJM man and he mentioned your proposed lift. I think he's right. The greater the lift the less the wheel travel left in the suspension hence only moderate lifts on tb vehicles unless you like lifting front wheels.

I am facing the same dilemma with the 100td IFS tb suspension.

I wouldn't say don't mess with it but just be aware there are trade offs when lifting IFS front ends. Like lifting wheels if you wind the torsion bars up too much. But hey it's all a compromise you then have more height but then cv angles are affected and sometimes rubber boots on cvs where out quicker (i never had this problem. Had more probs with sticks piercing the ruber boots) I'd prob go the 30mm max and no more too keep the big girl reliable.

Leroy

The reason you lose downtravel with a lifted torsion bar setup is that you have upper and lower bump stops. A lift only changes your ride height between these two bumpstops. The upper bump stop controls your down travel therefore the more you increase your ride height the closer you get to the upper bump stop and the less down travel you have. If you cut your bump stops or fit low profile ones (about US$10) then you effectively increase your distance to your upper bump stop again and regain some down travel.

This is all done with trade-offs to ride and whatever. Cranking torsion bars stiffens your ride but personally I like it better now than before when mine was really soft in the front.

Utemad has hit the nail right on the head.

Exactly my experience with the Jerry.

Lowering the front diff.....where do you stop? I pulled the pin when I got to this point. Im sure the insurance co wouldn't of liked this mod either. If it gets to this point regardless of how much you like the vehicle you are better off getting something more suitable.

leroy

Yes it would be great to say hmmmmmmmmm raise my current vehicle or buy a more capable one?

I think the cost of the raise is a little cheaper than another vehicle which you will probably raise anyway.

Besides why be worried about the lowered diff? It is cheap to do and probably the least noticable mod on your vehicle (so long as you paint them black). I think insurance companies are far more likely to spot the oversize wheels/tyres first.

Assuming the extended plates are quality ones then you would have no issue on an IFS vehicle anyway. It supports no weight. If they were to break while in 4wd your car will not fall over. Just would be a 2wd.

Did you draw the line there because diff lowering is not a too common practice in Australia? I am sure that with more and more IFS 4x4s getting around it will become a common practice. It already is in the USA. I am sure body lift scared people away once but is now common.

The last 2 mods on the list were lowwer front diff and body lift and I thought how much do you mod a 3yr old Rodeo.

Leroy

Lower the diff??????????????????????????????????????

Doesn't that put the diff closer to the rocks???????????

Brian,
If you lower the diff it does take it closer to the ground however you raised it when you wound the torsion bars hence the increased cv angles. Therefore lowering the diff on a raised TB vehicle only puts the diff as close to the ground as a standard height TB vehicle (with the same diameter tyres). So like a solid axle fourby the diff height in the end remains the same distance from the ground when lifted as when stock.

Leroy,
You mod a 3 year old Rodeo (or any vehicle) until it becomes uneconmical to do so or when the modded vehicle still won't do what you want it to do.
The benefits of a Rodeo is that it is cheap as dirt to modify. e.g the parts for my 2in lift (to be fitted in about 2 weeks) are
89 Jackaroo standard springs and u-bolts $80
89 Jackaroo bump stops rear - $10
standard torsion bars wound with flipped ball joints - free
reduced height front upper bump stops - $15
Extended shocks - $130ea for OME
Extended breakline or maybe just modded bracket - free (if make a bracket)

Cheap as chips compared to whatever else. Especially trading to another vehicle.

After all my experience I agree with you here. Prob the cheapest mod and you can put on bigger rubber that gets the giff centres of the ground and still retain fullest articulation in the front end. Pitty it requires an engineers cert. for the bofy lift.

Leroy

i did the same mods to the Rodeo and the ball joints also did the Lone Wolf cry!!!

Leroy

"...have acheved 3 " upward travel . and just over 3" down travel..."

I though I was bad when I lifted the Kia, dropping from 10.5" to 9" total travel, 4" down and 5" up........ now I don't feel so bad :))

OK keep it in your Jocks Gary ...3 " extra travel was only from the ball joint mod . Nothing to do with overall travel lol