GU TD6 Powerup and increase in black smoke

Submitted: Thursday, Oct 21, 2004 at 13:18
ThreadID: 17200 Views:3180 Replies:4 FollowUps:14
This Thread has been Archived
Posting for a mate here who recently had a $1,400 power increase job by Turbo Engineering in Thomastown here in VIC on his 2002 GU tray, non intercooled, don't have specific details of what was tinkered with. He is really happy with performance but a little dark on the amount of smoke out the back down low. I showed him the previous posts re GU powerups and he wanted to ask others:
* After your upgrades, do yours blow much more smoke (down low in particular)
* Any experience with the above firm?
Back Expand Un-Read 0 Moderator

Reply By: Member - Chris M (QLD) - Thursday, Oct 21, 2004 at 13:37

Thursday, Oct 21, 2004 at 13:37
More smoke yes. But only at startup and 1st gear, before turbo kicks in at 900rpm.

If it's non-intercooled, I don't think that would be the TD6.

From QLD so no experience with above firm.
AnswerID: 81087

Follow Up By: Leroy - Thursday, Oct 21, 2004 at 13:47

Thursday, Oct 21, 2004 at 13:47
TD6 - turbo diesel 6, 4.2, tomartoe, tomado....

Leroy

0
FollowupID: 340365

Follow Up By: Member - Chris M (QLD) - Thursday, Oct 21, 2004 at 14:14

Thursday, Oct 21, 2004 at 14:14
Maybe a green and red tomato...

TD6 4.2 Turbo Turbo Diesel Intercooled

Pre TD6 4.2 Turbo Diesel

No intercooler kinda different, has double cycle E.G.R, electronic fuel somwhere...
0
FollowupID: 340367

Follow Up By: Leroy - Thursday, Oct 21, 2004 at 15:37

Thursday, Oct 21, 2004 at 15:37
And the TDi? ;-) - blue tomatoe

Leroy
0
FollowupID: 340394

Reply By: Member -Dodger - Thursday, Oct 21, 2004 at 14:35

Thursday, Oct 21, 2004 at 14:35
Motson's of Brissy did my 4.2td non intercooled and it rarely blows smoke and the power up was done 95,000ks ago.
I service the unit each 5,000k and do a complete fluid change every 40,000k as required. Also the tappets have to be done regularly.
So maybe a trip back to the tune up mob is in order.
I used to have a handle on life, but it broke.

Cheers Dodg.

Lifetime Member
My Profile  Send Message

AnswerID: 81095

Reply By: Truckster (Vic) - Thursday, Oct 21, 2004 at 14:37

Thursday, Oct 21, 2004 at 14:37
What has Turbo Engineering said about it?? Shouldnt they have first right of reply? Take it back and tell them that he isnt happy.

He didnt request a list of what he got for $1400.00??

Sounds like all they did was up the fuel which should cost $20.00 not $1400! Or dirty injectors.

PS. Its not a TD6. Its a plain old GU TD42T.
AnswerID: 81096

Follow Up By: Leroy - Thursday, Oct 21, 2004 at 14:46

Thursday, Oct 21, 2004 at 14:46
What was the name of that mob Truckster in Bayswater I think that someone posted about the other week where the person got their Patrol 4.2TD tweaked and dyno for a few hundred bucks and I think they already had a 3" exhaust?

Leroy
0
FollowupID: 340379

Follow Up By: DARREN - Thursday, Oct 21, 2004 at 14:48

Thursday, Oct 21, 2004 at 14:48
As mentioned above, I don't have specifics but rather am posting as requested to gather info. on other's experiences.

Regarding your questions/statement

Don't know I didn't ask
Yes of course they should, and he probably will
He surely did but said that it was somewhat ambiguous and I don't have it

I doubt it very much, as mentioned above he is really happy with performance increase.

Thanks for that.
0
FollowupID: 340380

Follow Up By: Member - Chris M (QLD) - Thursday, Oct 21, 2004 at 14:57

Thursday, Oct 21, 2004 at 14:57
Will blow more black smoke if fueled up with higher boost and fuel. Standard equation - boost plus fuel = smoke. Look at comp trucks.
0
FollowupID: 340383

Follow Up By: Ian from Thermoguard Instruments - Thursday, Oct 21, 2004 at 15:23

Thursday, Oct 21, 2004 at 15:23
Can't quite agree with your standard equation, Chris. Boost level is not directly a factor in the smoke equation. It's more a case of "too much fuel for the available air = smoke" But even that's a bit too simplistic because, of course, timing, injection pressure and injector condition also come into it.

But assuming nothing else changed when the 'tuning' was done (i.e. his injectors didn't suddenly deteriorate the same day), I'd say it's a fair bet the off-boost/low boost maximum fuel rate has been set too high. This may give you slightly improved 'launch' from standstill but at the expense of objectionable smoke. (And, as well as being a waste of fuel and causing further unnecessary anti-4WD feeling from other road users (who may be choking on it!), excessive smoke means excessive soot in the cylinders and earlier fouling of the engine oil with soot and unburned hydrocarbons.)

I agree the first step should be to return it to the workshop and tell them you're not happy with the results.

Chris, re."fueled up with higher boost and fuel", I'm just trying to make the point that the same % of excessive fuel will cause just as much smoke at standard boost, as it will at a higher boost. It's the mass ratio of available air to fuel at full throttle that matters.

0
FollowupID: 340389

Follow Up By: Member - Chris M (QLD) - Thursday, Oct 21, 2004 at 15:33

Thursday, Oct 21, 2004 at 15:33
Roger that Ian!

Always good to have the input of a pro!

So I guess at 'take off', there is little air to mix, hence the alleged objectionable smoke?
0
FollowupID: 340390

Follow Up By: Ian from Thermoguard Instruments - Thursday, Oct 21, 2004 at 15:54

Thursday, Oct 21, 2004 at 15:54
Not 'pro' by any means Chris, but have become a keen student of matters diesel.

Well, as diesels as basically unthrottled (and we won't get into that horribly complicated EGR/throttle system on the TD6 (but no longer on yours, I'd hazard a guess?)), the cylinders are always full of air, but the mass (& denisty) of that air varies with it's pressure. At idle/low rpm when you're off-boost, there's nowhere near the mass of air available in the cylinders as when the turbo has spooled-up and giving full boost (whether standard full boost or higher).

So the injection system has to cut back the maximum fuel charge when off-boost, or while it's still building, so that the fuel charge has enough air to fully combust. This is the often misunderstood function of the boost compensator (manifold pressure compensator, aneroid). This device is there to restrict the maximum fuel charge when the boost pressure is less than the normal full boost pressure, to eliminate excessive smoke.

Boost compensators are characterised to the particular engine they're on and are typically set quite conservatively to meet emission regs. Many of the 'tuners' know how to alter these characteristics to improve performance without excessive smoke but it seems in this case, they may have been a tad overzealous.
0
FollowupID: 340398

Follow Up By: awill4x4 - Thursday, Oct 21, 2004 at 22:53

Thursday, Oct 21, 2004 at 22:53
As Ian says the off boost/ low boost parameters have been changed to improve low end performance. There is a trade off here though as increased fuel does improve takeoff in that more fuel burn equals hotter exhaust gases which spools up the turbo quicker, but, here is the kicker, your EGT's also increase at low speed, just when you don't need it when your crawling up a gnarly track in low 1st or 2nd.
If an EGT guage is fitted, it will be easy to see just what the exhaust temps are doing under those sort of conditions.
Regards Andrew.
0
FollowupID: 340444

Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Sunday, Oct 24, 2004 at 20:06

Sunday, Oct 24, 2004 at 20:06
Leroy
try
http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/PHP_Modules/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=27584&start=0
0
FollowupID: 340671

Follow Up By: Leroy - Sunday, Oct 24, 2004 at 20:59

Sunday, Oct 24, 2004 at 20:59
Ah thanks for that. Couldn't remeber which site it was on.

Leroy
0
FollowupID: 340684

Reply By: Member - John - Friday, Oct 22, 2004 at 09:10

Friday, Oct 22, 2004 at 09:10
Darren, have had some mods done to my GU 4.2 TD and it doesn't smoke at all. Have lowered EGT and have more power, much better to drive. Mates modified GU 4.2 TD, EGT over same section of road, same conditions etc, his 1100 f, mine 825 f, and both no smoke. Hope this helps?
John and Jan

Lifetime Member
My Profile  Send Message

AnswerID: 81201

Follow Up By: Member - Chris M (QLD) - Friday, Oct 22, 2004 at 09:52

Friday, Oct 22, 2004 at 09:52
How much boost you running mate? And size exhaust? And was E.G.R plated off/disconnected?
0
FollowupID: 340474

Follow Up By: Member - John - Friday, Oct 22, 2004 at 10:29

Friday, Oct 22, 2004 at 10:29
Chris M, I am running 12 psi boost and 3" exhaust from the turbo back. Have no EGR valve. Turbo was from MTQ in Towoomba. Can recomend the mods fully. Hope this helps.
John and Jan

Lifetime Member
My Profile  Send Message

0
FollowupID: 340482

Sponsored Links

Popular Products (9)