what's the difference?

Submitted: Wednesday, Oct 27, 2004 at 20:19
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Driving along last night the wife says to me that she noticed on the forum that most 4WD's are diesel. She says what's the difference between petrol & diesel, after all diesel is more economical?? At the time of this conversation there is a prado driving along in front of us. The wife says what's that horrible smell. It was the prado blowing out black smoke, obviously a diesel. I says that's the difference!!!!
Sparky (with a petrol troopy)
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Reply By: duncs - Wednesday, Oct 27, 2004 at 20:49

Wednesday, Oct 27, 2004 at 20:49
What can I say?

If it had been a Nissan you wouldn't be able to pick the difference cause Nissan Diesels don't blow smoke............................

Seriously though if you can smell it when your following it, petrol or diesel, toyota, nissan or anything else, it's got problems and should be fixed.

Duncs
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Reply By: Member - Jimbo (VIC) - Wednesday, Oct 27, 2004 at 21:13

Wednesday, Oct 27, 2004 at 21:13
I love my petrol.

More powerful, more responsive, more torque and cheaper to own in the overall scheme of things. And it's not the first petrol I've owned.

Still, there are a lot of people who swear by diesels.

Maybe I'm missing something.

Like everything, personal choice.

Cheers,

Jim.
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Follow Up By: Mad Dog (Victoria) - Wednesday, Oct 27, 2004 at 22:20

Wednesday, Oct 27, 2004 at 22:20
>I love my petrol

Petrol lovers do it with spark

diesel lovers do it with compassion......errr that'll do

Petrol or Diesel I don't give a stuff. As long as it works I'll keep doing it.
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Wednesday, Oct 27, 2004 at 22:23

Wednesday, Oct 27, 2004 at 22:23
Petrol with more torque ...

LMAO!!!!
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Follow Up By: Member - Jimbo (VIC) - Wednesday, Oct 27, 2004 at 22:27

Wednesday, Oct 27, 2004 at 22:27
Check the figures T,

then LYAO.

You're just posting a Troll surely?
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Wednesday, Oct 27, 2004 at 22:44

Wednesday, Oct 27, 2004 at 22:44
Ok Ive checked the torque figures on a TB42 V a TD42, now what?
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Follow Up By: Mad Dog (Victoria) - Wednesday, Oct 27, 2004 at 22:49

Wednesday, Oct 27, 2004 at 22:49
Jim is correct Bruce, Petrol will blow the oiler away, it has to have a turbo to produce any decent power or torque. Now put a turbo on that same petrol engine and see what happens. I think you know the answer.
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Wednesday, Oct 27, 2004 at 22:59

Wednesday, Oct 27, 2004 at 22:59
I'll show you the torque figures this weekend.. TB and TD42s
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Follow Up By: The Explorer - Wednesday, Oct 27, 2004 at 23:11

Wednesday, Oct 27, 2004 at 23:11
Hello
Probably a few other significant difference of importance but I have always been under the impression that diesels are the choice of those seeking more power and torque at low revs. These are beneficial characteristics in a lot of (real) off-road 4WD situations. Also better suited for towing heavy loads (eg trucks). Petrol vehicles produce (generally speaking) more torgue and power than diesles at higher revs...benificial if you want more power and torque..and revs dont matter..though maybe the difference in revs isnt significant?? Buggered if I know, just wish the RAV had some low down power! (and low range ..that would be handy..oh and some ground clearance as well)
Cheers
Greg
I sent one final shout after him to stick to the track, to which he replied “All right,” That was the last ever seen of Gibson - E Giles 23 April 1874

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Follow Up By: Mad Dog (Victoria) - Wednesday, Oct 27, 2004 at 23:27

Wednesday, Oct 27, 2004 at 23:27
Could be in trouble for the weekend, hasn't been confirmed with the missus yet. My figures are in favour of the tb42 in both power and torque but as Greg says at higher revs.

Greg, Your rig pic shows the strangest looking Rav I've ever seen...must be moded to buggery :)
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Follow Up By: The Explorer - Wednesday, Oct 27, 2004 at 23:51

Wednesday, Oct 27, 2004 at 23:51
Re: Rig Pic - sorry - that is of course a Hliux (diesel:) - ex work car- near Willyabarup Spring, South Coast WA - will soon track down a pic of the mighty RAV (before the clutch blows) or the Prado in action ..just lazy.
Cheers
Greg
I sent one final shout after him to stick to the track, to which he replied “All right,” That was the last ever seen of Gibson - E Giles 23 April 1874

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Reply By: Rosco - Bris. - Wednesday, Oct 27, 2004 at 21:57

Wednesday, Oct 27, 2004 at 21:57
Smelt ULP exhaust lately ... give me an oil burner any day.
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Follow Up By: Member - Jeff M (WA) - Thursday, Oct 28, 2004 at 16:04

Thursday, Oct 28, 2004 at 16:04
Well done Rosco! :-)
Especially before it's warmed up the cataletic convertor, YUCK!
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Reply By: motherhen - Thursday, Oct 28, 2004 at 00:34

Thursday, Oct 28, 2004 at 00:34
I know very little about mechanics and engines - but we choose diesels because my husband can handle minor mechanical problems on diesels - get stuck with modern computerised petrol motors and you need expert help and equipment. Also understand motors generally last longer in diesels. ULP rotten egg smell certainly worse than diesel fumes - but try and avoid both. Not into high speed stuff and just feel more comfortable with diesels.
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Reply By: Catchy snr - Thursday, Oct 28, 2004 at 09:15

Thursday, Oct 28, 2004 at 09:15
Hi I was quite surprised by what your wife said, I am in the proces of buying a cruiser for my son ( he is paying for it ) and the conclusion we came up with is the larger amount of later model 4x4s are petrol and they are automatics , we are chasing a t/diesel under 100000 ks and of course a manual at a fair price now there is a few about but I would not say they were cheap , I guess we will just have to keep on looking cheers Catchy snr
AnswerID: 82044

Reply By: Member - Melissa - Thursday, Oct 28, 2004 at 11:48

Thursday, Oct 28, 2004 at 11:48
Well from someone who's hadboth diesel and petrol 4WD's (currently petrol GU) this is mine and my husbands observations:
* In modern 4WD's there is little to pick in performance between D or P. Yeah you get differences in torque etc but there are generally quite a few models to chose from so if you pick a suitable model for your needs, whether it be D or P, I seriously doubt you'll ever find yourself in a 4WD situation saying "Oh damn, I wouldn't have got bogged just now if I'd only chosen a diesel instead!"
* Yes, D's are more economical to run, BUT diesel 4WD cost significantly more to buy and diesel fuel is nearly always more expensive to buy (and not insignificant at times). Long-term I doubt there'd be any significant $ saving in chosing D over P.
* One of the biggest things in favour of D is their history of the engine generally keeping going far longer than a P engine. eg. You probably expect to get 200,000km's out of P before having to spend some $ on the engine, whereas a D is more likely to be 400,000km's. Having said that, we don't believe it is so cut and dried these days. The simple, honest diesel engine in modern 4WD's is a thing of the past as things like turbo's and electronics have come into vogue. Also, advances in P engines mean that we are seeing greater longevity in them. In summary, the gap between D and P isn't as significant as it once was.
* It is a common belief that D engines are easier for a bush mechanic to fix than P. This is probably true for an older D, but a modern D with all its gadgetry will be just a baffling as a modern P (these comments from our diesel mechanic mate).
* One indisputable advantage of diesels is that they get better range and you can buy diesel fuel almost anywhere, so they're great for really remote area travel. However, with a bit of forward planning you can take a petrol 4WD anywhere a diesel can go. How much this factor effects your decision making re: buying D or P, will probably depend on how much truly remote travelling you intend to do.

Anyway, that just our summary of the D vs. P debate. I'm sure there are some who won't agree...The D vs. P thing is kinda like LC vs. Patrol, Engel vs. Waeko/Evakool etc.

:o) Melissa
AnswerID: 82062

Follow Up By: Member - Jeff M (WA) - Thursday, Oct 28, 2004 at 16:18

Thursday, Oct 28, 2004 at 16:18
Yeah it's personal choice alright, and the lines are getting more blurred every time they bring out a new model.
However one points that people seem to keep forgetting is - Yes diesel is more expensive than Regular ULP. I know a LOT of petrol 4wd owners who don't use ULP, they use premium or BP Ulitimate 98, which can quite often exceed the p/l price of diesel.
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Reply By: Truckster (Vic) - Thursday, Oct 28, 2004 at 12:19

Thursday, Oct 28, 2004 at 12:19
"The wife says what's that horrible smell. "
on the kurnell road that could be the Shi+farm, the gas works, weeny bay at low tide, the refinery, cont carbon, the swamp, the landfill, unleaded cars if theres any new cars out there, with a minor chance of the smell of diesel getting thru.. LMAO
AnswerID: 82068

Follow Up By: Troopy Travellers (NSW) - Thursday, Nov 04, 2004 at 09:33

Thursday, Nov 04, 2004 at 09:33
Your sounding a bit like "a woman scorned" there Bruce, you sure you left of your own accord??? Carolyn.
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Thursday, Nov 04, 2004 at 10:54

Thursday, Nov 04, 2004 at 10:54
Couldnt wait to get out of the place!
"Amazing how differently you see the people, and things in general once you get out of the place"
... a quote from your old neighbour who lifes 10 mins from me, Richard Cooney.
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Reply By: ianmc - Thursday, Oct 28, 2004 at 13:31

Thursday, Oct 28, 2004 at 13:31
Well the debate continues! If you want greater reliability & an easier machine to fix
with far less chance of a breakdown in rough conditions it seems you need an older low tech type diesel. The electronic gadgetry gets results but is unlikely to be fixable when it takes a holiday in remote places whereas the mechanical systems
rarely stop.
AnswerID: 82078

Follow Up By: Member - Jeff M (WA) - Thursday, Oct 28, 2004 at 16:16

Thursday, Oct 28, 2004 at 16:16
I agree with you to a certain extent. Sure it's pretty scarey when you read the toyota service manual for the 1kz-te with all the schematics and such, however if you print out the complete workshop manual (yeah it's large) you can stow it in with your recovery gear/tools. If you do break down, you don't actually need any fancy shmancy diagnostic gear, all you need is a paper clip that you short out some pins in the diagnostic plug under the bonnet. Then the car will flash the engine light on the dash a certain number of times which will corrospond to the table in the book and tell you whats wrong with it. 9 times out of 10 it'll probally be some kind of sensor in the engine bay which you can easily bypass or short out to get you home.
So yes there is more to go wrong, but possibly easier to fix as it will at least point you in the right direction.
But yeah on top of that, I like diesels, you can make anything look better on paper, yeah perhaps you will have "more torque" in a petrol on paper, but if you look at a dyno report of a d vs p you'll find the diesel can bring that torque on much lower and hold it right up through the rev ranges, a petrol will peak out and then drop down again. Going up steap hills etc it's good to have that grunt there the whole way up.
But yeah, there is probally not much difference in the end, just a personal choice.
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Reply By: theshadows - Thursday, Oct 28, 2004 at 16:31

Thursday, Oct 28, 2004 at 16:31
You sitting on the side of the road at grafton after just filling up in the petrol cruiser and the cuts out .You try in vain to start it and you running out of room on the road and speed. "Stuff it" you think as you throw it off the road in to a deep ditch .the "b" double rumbles bye "he was't going to slow down".

You pop the bonnet and crank the car.....pop...pop.....It wants to idle but it wont.

"Great" you think sunday after noon got to be in brissie tomorrow at 10 am to meet removalist. you try again ...pop...pop.......fuel pump? fuel computer? ptu? tps? broken pin on the pick sensor...

well one thing is for sure. the bloody car wont get you there.the battery flat and you havent fixed the mixure on the lpg system...

that was the end for me and my second lpg landcruiser. 3 weeks later I back loaded it when I went through and had some spare space ....trying to find a 3 tonne forklift was a bit hard but I got it in to the tauntliner.turned out to be the fuel computer .....I could have bypassed it If I had my tool kit with me.

I've gone back to smelly nosiey diesal thankyou....

shadow
AnswerID: 82107

Reply By: Gypsymum - Wednesday, Nov 03, 2004 at 14:57

Wednesday, Nov 03, 2004 at 14:57
Hi guys,

Just to chuck a spanner in the works. The hubby and I own a Petrol/LPG 92 80 series. We were told we should always run petrol when we in 4WD action but the other day after coming of a nice boggy beach we noticed that we had been playing in LPG not petrol so proving ( to me anyways)that there is no noticable difference in performance between the fuels we are running. Because of the price of petrol (unleaded) at the moment we run on LPG 6 out of 7 days a week otherwise we couldn't afford to run our 4by.

Regards Sasha
AnswerID: 82893

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