Home made air compressor

Submitted: Wednesday, Oct 27, 2004 at 22:00
ThreadID: 17372 Views:6475 Replies:13 FollowUps:13
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Hi All,

I have read lots of articles on connecting a york (AC) compressor to either the motor or to a two strke engine to make an on bnoard air compressor. I am thinking of doing something similar ecxept connecting it to a 12V motor for portability and the fact that I have no room to attach another AC compressor under the bonnet. I was thinking of using a starter motor; however, I think the duty cycle may be too long. Hoping someone with a bit more knowledge could tell me what type and rating of motor I would need. Perhaps an old winch motor would be better. If there is a cheap motor I could purchase from an electrical wholesaler I would be very interested. I look forward to your suggestions.

cheers

Craig
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Reply By: Member Eric - Wednesday, Oct 27, 2004 at 22:06

Wednesday, Oct 27, 2004 at 22:06
Suggestion number one. Go buy a compressor
AnswerID: 82014

Follow Up By: jolls - Thursday, Oct 28, 2004 at 11:46

Thursday, Oct 28, 2004 at 11:46
That's admitting defeat before even playing around. I believe the hummer has a similar system and have seen them selling here in the states for around $845. So if I can get second hand or excess parts I may be in with a shot.
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Reply By: Truckster (Vic) - Wednesday, Oct 27, 2004 at 22:19

Wednesday, Oct 27, 2004 at 22:19
Suggestion #2.. Dont bother. if you cant fit it underbonnet you will lose the advantage of it.. And since you want it portable, why not just buy something like a BigRed or bluetounge? or ARB in the box....
AnswerID: 82018

Follow Up By: jolls - Thursday, Oct 28, 2004 at 11:47

Thursday, Oct 28, 2004 at 11:47
That would be bending to the big supliers. Want a project to work on. Never know, may even be able to pull it off.
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Reply By: ColinD - Wednesday, Oct 27, 2004 at 22:25

Wednesday, Oct 27, 2004 at 22:25
Eric may be right. If you cant mount it easily to the engine, then forget about using this type of compressor. Even if you do find a suitable electric motor, the current draw would be very high. There is a reason why the electrical type air compressors on the market are small...........................go for a rebuildable electric........................col
AnswerID: 82019

Follow Up By: jolls - Thursday, Oct 28, 2004 at 11:49

Thursday, Oct 28, 2004 at 11:49
Col,

Great fall back option if I fall on my face. But I wnt to give it a go anyway. I know they have a similar version here (US) on the market. Don't want to reverse engineer it, just build something for the sake of it.
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Reply By: Member - Scooby (WA) - Thursday, Oct 28, 2004 at 10:03

Thursday, Oct 28, 2004 at 10:03
Craig,
This idea certainly will work. I have a good mate who is experimenting with this because he enjoys a challenge and is currently building his third unit. There is a lot of machining (end plates for starter motor) and welding (metal support frame)
Here is what he has found to date-
1/ He has used a gear reduction starter(lighter in weight) and an ordinary starter out of a HR Holden (very heavy) and they both perform about the same.
2/ The completed unit is very heavy and quite bulky.
3/ Draws between 150 and 200 amps, so needs heavy cabling.
4/ Heat is a big problem. He has machined large vent holes around the brushes and fitted small computer fans to blow air( this may help a bit)
5/ Drive is by V belt and a 50mm diameter pulley on the starter seems to work best.
6/ After pumping four tires from 15 to 35 psi the starter is getting so hot you can't hold your hand on it for long.

So, unless you can get the parts for nothing and have a well set up workshop with lathe etc, I would buy an an electric pump like a Blue Tongue or Bushranger.
Regards
Scooby
AnswerID: 82050

Follow Up By: jolls - Thursday, Oct 28, 2004 at 12:00

Thursday, Oct 28, 2004 at 12:00
Now we are talking. I thought that would be the case with a starter motor. I am thinking about a flex coupling to cut down on size and weight. Starter motor draws a large current over such a short period. I believe the YorK AC compressors will provide a continuous duty cycle for pumping tyres etc. so I'm thinking a winch motor would be a better option as the speed is not as important. They must make a DC motor that will do the job. For home use an old drier motor may work - 240V is the problem. If your mate is interested I'd love to get in touch and share ideas. Who knows - may put ARB out of business in the future.

Try this for option 2. I can purchase the compressor for the air suspension on a cadillac for $15. Team that up with an old fire extinguisher under the tray of my ute and away we go. Has temp cut out etc already built in and no hurry to fill the cylinder. Priced all the parts and reckon I can do it for 60 bucks for a cheapy. I've seen this with my own eyes. Pumps up the roll cage on a jeep and easily reinflates the tyres after driving on sand. So for the doubters, where there's a will there's a way. Just really looking at the challenge of making something like this work. Will it be the next 4WD craze, probably not. But a good fun project.

Cheers and thanks for the encouragement.

Craig
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Follow Up By: Member - Scooby (WA) - Thursday, Oct 28, 2004 at 13:32

Thursday, Oct 28, 2004 at 13:32
Jolls,
Option two sounds good, a truck air tank may be better as it has the relief valve and water drain, cheap from the wreckers.
The third pump my mate is building will be direct drive, no belt, using a 12 volt motor used on hydraulic pumps. This motor has a five minute duty cycle so when it is finished we will do tests comparing all three types. He is retired and enjoys tinkering, not interested in going into production, not fun any more.
Scooby
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Follow Up By: ColinD - Thursday, Oct 28, 2004 at 19:25

Thursday, Oct 28, 2004 at 19:25
jolls, engineering is good fun. A couple of comments to throw in the ring. If you can manage it, an AC compressor IS the quickest way to go. If you are going to drive it electrically try to reduce the load by getting a small compressor (of small car), and using a type that is easier to drive ie. there are scroll, rotary piston, parrallel piston to name a few...couldnt tell you which is better, possibly a small rotary 5 piston.
Also have you thought about a fridge compressor (12v), these are often thrown out when the gas leaks out, but the compressor still works. The volume would be very small (if time isnt an issue), the unit is sealed, runs quietly, you could mount it practically anywhere, and they pump quite a large pressure (I beleive 300psi+).
Compressors that adjust suspension as above are not designed to run for anything other than the time it takes to adjust a very small air volume after a load change, so therefore its life would be severely shortened by continuous running. Price is good though, the Ford Fairmont and Fairlane 88 onwards use a similar system, I think the compressor is mounted in the front RH fender.
As mentioned above, truck air tanks are the best option for air storage, they come in all sizes. Another is out of date LPG cylinders from a recycling yard.........dozens of them.
Would be interested in what you decide to do.............................col
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Reply By: Member - Jeff M (WA) - Thursday, Oct 28, 2004 at 17:12

Thursday, Oct 28, 2004 at 17:12
Mate my Blue Tounge IV will infalte my 10R 15" Desert Dullers from 18psi to 32psi in 2 mintues flat a tyre. It takes me longer than that to deflate them!
I have just started putting my air tank on, although it will not be used so much for pumping up tyres as it is not large enough, I'm am happy with 2min a tyre.
Air tank will be for lockers, air horns, clean hoses and pipes, air cleaners things like that. Would be very easy to setup a bigger truck air tank (I've got a 2L air tank and about 14metre of hose to charge up) I just don't have the space for a big tank, I'm finding it hard enough for a good spot for the little tacker. I could always put it under where the spare should go (as I have a swing away bar) but that's where I want my long range tank to eventually go.
You could even do what they do on big rigs and run two air tanks, one on each side, should give you plenty of air for your tyres then. You just have to drive around for the last 20 minutes of your trip with the BZZZZZZ of the compressor! LOL.
AnswerID: 82116

Follow Up By: jolls - Thursday, Oct 28, 2004 at 22:33

Thursday, Oct 28, 2004 at 22:33
Jeff,

I have a ute so no real issues under the tub, plenty of vacant space. I've looked at the blue tongue and several other off the shelf compressors. I think they are great pieces of kit. This is a project for fun so I'm prepared to play around a little. I hope to mount the compressor back there or make it portable, depending on the size I come up with.

Thanks for tha advice.

Cheers

Craig
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Reply By: GaryInOz (Vic) - Thursday, Oct 28, 2004 at 17:43

Thursday, Oct 28, 2004 at 17:43
As Eric said, and anyone that remembers Little Desert will attest, Maxairs are pretty good. Why reinvent the wheel??? Hook it up to a reciever if you have to, but the weight could be better used by a bigger/second battery and a second compressor if you need to (also failsafe).
AnswerID: 82119

Follow Up By: jolls - Thursday, Oct 28, 2004 at 22:35

Thursday, Oct 28, 2004 at 22:35
Gary,

For the hell of it. A little bit of self satisfaction!

Cheers
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FollowupID: 341313

Reply By: Member - DOZER- Thursday, Oct 28, 2004 at 19:01

Thursday, Oct 28, 2004 at 19:01
There is one commercially available..GO_OFFROAD has the url, it escapes me at the moment...basically a starter and air cond compresser...if u drive a petrol, running a small petrol motor will work, but why do that when you have one going and a full battery or two...
Go for it.
Andrew
80 petrol with engine mounted one
AnswerID: 82130

Follow Up By: jolls - Thursday, Oct 28, 2004 at 22:37

Thursday, Oct 28, 2004 at 22:37
Dozer,

Second time I've heard of them being available commercially. So obviously viable, probably more expensive, heavier and therefore hasn't cornered the market.

Thanks. I'll keep searching the web.

Cheers
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FollowupID: 341318

Reply By: Stuart - Thursday, Oct 28, 2004 at 20:01

Thursday, Oct 28, 2004 at 20:01
Hi Joll. Ignore the doubters. I used a Senco rotary compressor for years on my old truck. There perfect. I ran it on the same belt as the aircon. Had a dash mounted switch running through a relay to engage the clutch and used an ARB cutout switch. that proved ideal as it cuts out at about 110psi and cuts in at 80psi. I used 8mm air hose and at 1500 rpm it would fill the 5Ltr air tank faster than I could pump up the tyres. I just dropped a teaspoonful light machine oil in every few months. Had the same compressor for 8 years and was still on the car when I sold it. A couple of mates are using them to now and we have never had a failure. I am currently fidling with a starter motor as I have the same problem as you. I'm trying the direct coupling method using a Mark 1 Cortina starter. It's not to big and has no throw out fork, just a straight shaft which should make mounting and coupling much easier. Please note my email address and let me know how you get on. Cheers.
AnswerID: 82145

Follow Up By: jolls - Thursday, Oct 28, 2004 at 22:58

Thursday, Oct 28, 2004 at 22:58
Stuart,

Thanks. Couldn't find the email address though. My concern with using a starter is heat. So I would love to hear how you get on. Direct coupling is certainly the way to go for size and weight, gearing may also be a good option to keep the heat down. I'm thinking a winch type motor where you could reverse the gearing to drive the pump. Even a direct drive at a slow rate may be OK if it is mounted under the tub of the ute. The thing could fill up remoted air tanks at a slow rate; the stored air then used for any fast fill requirements. For a continuous air situation, and therefore portability is an option, I think the motor is the key, something light enough to drive it and yet able to dissipate the heat. I'll keep you in the loop as I investigate further. You sound as though you enjoy tinkering as well.

Thanks for your insights.

Cheers

Craig
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FollowupID: 341322

Reply By: bob - Thursday, Oct 28, 2004 at 23:51

Thursday, Oct 28, 2004 at 23:51
Hi Jolls
I agree with the idea about designing & building things for fun ( last project took 2 yrs- kids gocart powered by 24v pallet truck motor, space frame, rack and pinion steering etc). An option could be an old electric forklift drive or pump motor. They would have a fairly high current draw but they are designed to run continuously and have ample power for the AC compressor. Dont give in!!!!!!!!

Bob
AnswerID: 82192

Follow Up By: jolls - Friday, Oct 29, 2004 at 08:40

Friday, Oct 29, 2004 at 08:40
Bob,

Thanks for the encouragement. Hadn't thought of that as an option. How big are these animals?

Cheers

Craig
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FollowupID: 341356

Reply By: Member - John - Friday, Oct 29, 2004 at 08:59

Friday, Oct 29, 2004 at 08:59
Jolls, I have a mate who makes the units you are wanting. Uses a modified starter motor, replaces the bushes with bearings and this increase the duty cycle, no problem with heat etc. Direct coupled to a Saden 508 a/con compressor. Very good unit. Most winch motors are modified starter motors I believe. Hope this helps.
John and Jan

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AnswerID: 82209

Follow Up By: jolls - Friday, Oct 29, 2004 at 09:58

Friday, Oct 29, 2004 at 09:58
John,

Thanks very much for you advice. Would he mind discussing with me his experience? If so I'd love to be put in touch with him. The bearing are an excellent idea. I see it all coming together as a coherent plan. This place is a gret place for advice, will certainly join when I return to Oz in January. Look forward to hearing from you.

Cheers

Craig
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FollowupID: 341366

Reply By: Member - John - Friday, Oct 29, 2004 at 10:03

Friday, Oct 29, 2004 at 10:03
Craig, sure thing, will give him a ring and find out if he is around, he travels a lot. Will be in contact with you soon. John
John and Jan

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Reply By: Member - John - Friday, Oct 29, 2004 at 10:06

Friday, Oct 29, 2004 at 10:06
Craig, email me direct if you like, jlsulli at bigpond.com
John and Jan

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AnswerID: 82220

Reply By: Neil & Lynne - Friday, Oct 29, 2004 at 10:45

Friday, Oct 29, 2004 at 10:45
As a sideline to the towing business I owned a few years ago, I had a 55 series wagon as a beach/bush recovery vehicle. We were close to the beach so in summer made many recoveries from the sand. To speed up tyre inflation I had an AC pump mounted on the engine which worked a treat.
Upon upgrading to a 75 series ute I had no room to mount the AC under bonnet and no time to implement alternative mounting ideas, although I did come up with a possible solution. I solved my problem by mounting a 17cfm Honda powered unit in the tray. Filled my 33's from 17psi to 38 psi in 35 seconds.
The possible solution I pondered was to mount the AC compressor under the tray with a truck air tank with the drive being supplied from the PTO output. Presto, no heating/current draw problems, run it as long as necessary. It was the actual connection of belts that had me worried but I'm sure a flexible cable drive of some sort could be done.

Neil
AnswerID: 82222

Follow Up By: jolls - Friday, Oct 29, 2004 at 11:15

Friday, Oct 29, 2004 at 11:15
Neil,

Now that is an idea I hadn't considered. I don't have the new car yet, waiting to return to Oz in January, but will certainly see if the PTO is an option. We use flex drives for military applications in some of our boats so know how strong and flexible they can be. Amazing what a bit of lateral thinking can come up with.

Thanks heaps for that one.

Cheers
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