Over heating issues

Submitted: Thursday, Oct 28, 2004 at 18:50

ThreadID: 17392 Views:3296 Replies:9 FollowUps:9

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Member Eric

Well finaly cracked it and pulled the radiator out again yesterday . I have had issues with overheating on big hills during hot days . Last year in March I had the radiator out and was told it was 40 % blocked . Had it cleaned , and a new genuine hub fitted at the same time . In January heading to QLD . Started having issues again, only on very hot days and vehicle under load . Eg going up hill temp would reach 3/4 and then back to half on the other side . Once i got to GC I dropped it off to a local mechanic and had the radiator removed again to finf it was 30 to 40 % blocked . Had the radiator cleaned again and the thermostat changed , engine block flushed and has been fine till a month ago when I blew a head gasket after giving the car a hard time. On a freak warm day we had after that I was running the air con and found the car overheating again . So after banging my head on the bull bar for a hr , I desided to look into it again . Had the radiator removed again to find it over 50 % blocked again . I asked the dude , how good to you get them clean , I bit the bullet and asked for a new core . Thinking that it was be pretty crapy in there and there obviously not getting it right. I also removed the waterpump ( genuine pump ) to look for any obvious issues. The impella was like new and no visible issues . A forum member here asked if I was using genuine Toyo cooland , my answer was no . So I started making some calls to cooling places and got the same answer . Only use genuine cooland in Toyo radiator , other coolents will give you blockige issues . Well I have done that now . I will also flush the system every month fir 3 months to see if i get a better result.

It has freeked me out to have 3 overheating issues and all ended up been the same thing . Bloody radiator . I wonder if anyone here has has similar issues with not using genuine coolant ? I was talking to a toyo service guy , he reconds that they put a fair bit if development into the cooland , he also swore black and blue that non genuine coolant would give me issues . I hopw he is right.

Ps , yes , no leaks , yes , hub is good ., Yes have put extra fluid into the new hum ., Yes hoses are all new and not colapsing . yes both radiator and condencer are clear of mud and crap.

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Reply By: Member - Jeff M (WA) - Thursday, Oct 28, 2004 at 19:01

Thursday, Oct 28, 2004 at 19:01

Well (touch wood) ever since I put Genuine Tojo Coolant in the surf she has been much happier, mind you it was only christmas last year, so it will be interesting to see how the old girl goes this summer...
I have had it hot once since doing it and I was being a moron and racing my friend down this really wide firebrake for about 15-20mins in deep grey sand just under redline with foot to the floor, she started to heat up near the end, the fan was whirling but it was creeping up the guage, but really it's not a real life situation that you are going to be doing that. Considering the very undersized radiator in the surf, the auto gear box two massive batteries on each side of the rad, and the fact that there basically no room left under the bonnet for anything I think that was pretty ok. Temp was probally about 25c.
When it was overheating it would run fine for ages, then just shoot up real fast and you had to keep your eye on it and be very careful. With that last time you could see it struggling for ages and it was just steadily rising and if I just took my foot a cm of the floor it would hold it, put it back to the floor and it was ever so slow start to rise.
I reckon you'll be right now anyway.

AnswerID: 82131

Follow Up By: Member Eric - Thursday, Oct 28, 2004 at 19:38

Thursday, Oct 28, 2004 at 19:38

we can only hope Jeff lol

FollowupID: 341265

Reply By: Ian from Thermoguard Instruments - Thursday, Oct 28, 2004 at 19:18

Thursday, Oct 28, 2004 at 19:18

Hope you had the block very well flushed (like a fire hose in both directions, several times) before hooking up that nice new core. I'd hate to read in a few months time that its become blocked by crap coming out of the engine. (The fact that the old rad continually got re-blocked after being cleaned kind of suggests this, no?)

It's a very different situation, I know, but after flushing the block of the Holden 202 in my old Series III LR until the water ran clean, I then removed the pump to check it out (it was stuffed, by the way). I was then amazed at the quantity of scale and sludge still sitting in the bottom of the cylinder jackets, quite well-packed in places. More flushing and 'rodding out' with stiff wire finally got it all out. Since then a 1:2 mix of Castrol concentrate / de-min water has kept things clean.

Having owned several Toyotas, I agree that genuine Toyota concentrate or coolant is the go for them - had no problems with any of them, cooling-wise.

AnswerID: 82135

Follow Up By: Member Eric - Thursday, Oct 28, 2004 at 19:37

Thursday, Oct 28, 2004 at 19:37

Well before removing the radiator , I emptied the water and had the block flushed , then I added a flush adative and ran the motor for a hr , I then flushed the block once again . He didn't have a fire hose handy , so we used the gernie and flushed it for over half an hr . Then fitted the new radiator with the toyo coolant . Just as a precaution , when I get back from Robe , I will remove the top hose and flush the block again . I also plan on back flushing the radiator , i will do this every month for 3 months , hopefuly getting rid of the block scale . In saying this , I didnt see much muck come out of the block whilst flushing , even after running the flush adative . I am thinking that when i got the motor hot and blew the head gasket , it must of let go of a heap of scale and blocked the core . Also I realy wonder how good they cleaned the radiator . I am under the asumption that once its blocked really bad , that they dont clean to well anyway , this is why I asked for a new core this time .

Regards EC

FollowupID: 341264

Reply By: Ian(Qld) - Thursday, Oct 28, 2004 at 19:44

Thursday, Oct 28, 2004 at 19:44

Eric,

There is a good thread 9828 that goes into the problems associated with mixing coolants and "stray current". It mentions a horror site of problems, well worth a look at link text . Far more complex than I had ever imagined.
Regards
Ian

AnswerID: 82140

Follow Up By: Member Eric - Thursday, Oct 28, 2004 at 19:47

Thursday, Oct 28, 2004 at 19:47

Thanks Ian , I asked about that , since I run so many electrical gadgets , I was told that the 80 series radiators are weel earthed and don't have issues in this department . Aparantly it was a desaster on the VN commodore

FollowupID: 341267

Follow Up By: Member - glenno (QLD) - Thursday, Oct 28, 2004 at 20:21

Thursday, Oct 28, 2004 at 20:21

I recently had an overheating issue and i had my troopy alloy radiator replaced with a toyota replacement brass one . The radiator guy said that i didnt have any stray current . What the problem was , when i bought the troopy 2nd hand i should have replaced the coolant straight away as it could have been lolly water for all i knew . Alloy radiators and heads and mixed or weak coolant dont mix . I think that (link text) says and shows it all .

FollowupID: 341275

Reply By: bb - Thursday, Oct 28, 2004 at 20:14

Thursday, Oct 28, 2004 at 20:14

Hello Eric
Try fitting a inline filter in the top radiator hose to catch any scale ect from the block.
good radiator shops sell them. They have a screw on cap to remove the s/s mesh screen ,so you can clean it.
I made one myself years ago when i fitted a holden red motor that had been sitting around unused for a long time. I had to clean it every 2 weeks due to the amount of scale in the block. About a teaspoon each time.
This will solve the problem if it is scale ect from the block.
see ya
bruce

AnswerID: 82151

Follow Up By: Member Eric - Thursday, Oct 28, 2004 at 20:30

Thursday, Oct 28, 2004 at 20:30

Sounds like a great idea , i will call up the radiator shop , see if they sell them , cheers

FollowupID: 341276

Follow Up By: Moz - Friday, Oct 29, 2004 at 09:19

Friday, Oct 29, 2004 at 09:19

Eric,
I have seen a similar thing done with on old stocking.
Wrap a bit over the top radiator inlet a fit the hose over as normal.
Not as hi-tech but cheaper.

Cheers
Moz

FollowupID: 341362

Reply By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Thursday, Oct 28, 2004 at 21:53

Thursday, Oct 28, 2004 at 21:53

G'day Eric,
Having been through the over-warming problem myself, I know what you're going through.
As you may have read previously, I finally solved my problem by fitting a PWR full aluminium radiator with double the capacity of the Nissan jobbie.
On our recent Cape York trip, I noticed the gauge still went up (but only a very small amount), but the air conditioning still stayed on......(it used to switch off when the Nissan radiator was fitted, courtesy of 2 switches in the bottom radiator tank).
Anyway, I deduced that although the motor was still making the coolant too hot (hence the gauge reading above half way), by the time the coolant had got to the bottom tank, it had cooled considerably; enough so that the switches were not activated.
Now I'm still concerned about why the motor is getting a little too warm.
Could be the tuning.....if the diesel mechanic tried a bit too hard to get me some more neddies by winding up the fuel pump output a little bit too much, I could be getting suffering from EGT being too hot.....Ian from Thermoguard might be able to verify that this could be a cause.

AnswerID: 82173

Follow Up By: Ian from Thermoguard Instruments - Thursday, Oct 28, 2004 at 22:27

Thursday, Oct 28, 2004 at 22:27

I'll try, Roachie. If any TD engine has had the fueling 'wound up' (and you have noticed some performance improvement), then it must be generating more waste heat. That is, the thermal efficiency of the engine won't have changed much, so if you're getting more kW out of the engine by putting more kW worth of fuel and air in, then you must also be putting more kW of waste heat into the cooling system.

[The very best, very large capacity, low rpm, marine diesels are at best approaching 50% thermal efficiency - that is, 50% of the energy in the fuel is converted into crankshaft kW. The rest goes out with the exhaust gases or into the cooling system.]

This, of course, only applies when the engine is working hard - injection pump 'tuning' really only has effect at high load/full throttle. If your engine is still too hot when cruising at half throttle, then you have fundamental cooling system troubles.

The real killer with overfueling is that exhaust gas temperature (EGT) goes to extreme levels (>720 C) within a few tens of seconds at full load/full throttle - well before the large thermal mass of the block, head and cooling system will register a significant temperature increase. By the time you see the coolant temp gauge rising, your turbo housing, exhaust turbine blade tips and wastegate valve and valve seat will have been subjected to these extreme temps for some minutes. And the damage is cummulative.

Please don't think I'm being alarmist here to boost sales (I can't keep up with orders as it is, just now). If you have a stock standard TD engine, you're unlikely to suffer from excessive EGT (unless perhaps you tow a very heavy trailer/caravan often in mountainous terrain with a small capacity TD). BUT, if you have had your TD 'tuned' to give better than standard performance and you do not have a EGT gauge, the I think your turbo is probably on borrowed time.

And, if you've spend $1000 plus on performance upgrades, etc., isn't a few hundred bucks for an EGT gauge pretty cheap insurance? As I've said before, you may not like my gauge but if you don't, please go and buy a VDO one or similar rather than nothing at all.

Sorry Roachie, I've gone a bit off-thread here and jumped on my favourite soap-box again...

FollowupID: 341309

Follow Up By: Member - Chris M (QLD) - Friday, Oct 29, 2004 at 08:06

Friday, Oct 29, 2004 at 08:06

Roachie,

With the work done to mine, I do not have engine 'warming issues. Admitedly, I think the TD6 has the same radiator as the 4.8, but wouldn't be as good as yours I imagine?

My E.G.T's go up quite quickly, as stated above by Ian. But I have never had the temp gauge shift froma quarter.

The strange thing was, on the GQ with the aftermarket turbo fitted and running 7psi, the E.G.T's never went above 450, but the motor used to really warm up when into it. I especially noticed it on the ocean road down to Melbourne last year, some of those really long uphill stretches.

But when I boosted it to 12psi, upped the fuel etc, the motor ran cooler and the E.G.T's went up.

The same applies on the GU. I can only run fuel throttle up a range for a minute or two before reaching a speed that's maintainable in 4th without getting the E.G.T's above 550. But this is whilst towing with fuel truck (I think the aussie with water is about 850kg's) and including food, fridge and storage drawers, it runs at a quarter the whole time. The only thing I keep an eye on is the E.G.T's, if I see them getting up to 550-600, I just cruise. At 110 up a hill, as long as I'm not stupid, it will sit around 350 degrees.

But ulitmately, as I said a few posts ago to someone else, even if I ran a standard turbo, get a gauge. Drive your truck to the E.G.T gauge and the temp.

FollowupID: 341351

Follow Up By: Member - Chris M (QLD) - Friday, Oct 29, 2004 at 08:10

Friday, Oct 29, 2004 at 08:10

Pls note that I'm a spaz when it comes to typing...

Fuel = full ;-)

FollowupID: 341353

Reply By: Truckster (Vic) - Thursday, Oct 28, 2004 at 23:34

Thursday, Oct 28, 2004 at 23:34

You could have a lot of scale in your engine, which is flowing into the radiator blocking it... Get a reverse flush done on the engine (Andrew will correct me) I thikn it is.. he ran radiator flush thru his, then had it reverse flushed, and TONS of $hit came out.... You could also have a stray current from something electrical (not that ou have any elec accessories) causing this corrosion/scaling..

talk to andrew, Mr Radiator.

AnswerID: 82189

Reply By: 80scruiser - Friday, Oct 29, 2004 at 07:51

Friday, Oct 29, 2004 at 07:51

I can't say I have had any probs with over heating in my 80 Series diesel. 273 000 k's now. New radiator at 265 000 due to crack and leaking. I have only used genuine holden coolant and had no trouble.
FYI

AnswerID: 82202

Reply By: Moose - Monday, Nov 01, 2004 at 14:16

Monday, Nov 01, 2004 at 14:16

G'day Eric
That's interesting about not using non Toyota coolant. Are you referring to the red coloured anti corrosion stuff or the antifreeze type?
I've had Castrol antifreeze in mine for yonks with no problems to date. However if I do encounter any overheating I guess I'll know where to look. It's hard to see why one would have to use only Toyota stuff - surely ethylene glycol (or whatever the active ingredient is) can't be any different in a Toyota can than in a Castrol can than in a Mobil can etc. It probably all comes from the same place!

AnswerID: 82545

Reply By: Gypsymum - Thursday, Nov 04, 2004 at 20:11

Thursday, Nov 04, 2004 at 20:11

Hi again Eric,

For the sake of your sanity bite the bullet and replace the entire radiator...please. We did this a week after purchasing our 92 80 series. We replaced the insanely silly plastic tanked radiator with a tough as nail brass tank radiator. Haven't had a prob after that ( once we topped up the hub that is) but everyone we know has ditched the plastic tanks and gone brass. It just doesn't seem right to me to have the heart of the car made with plastic tanks.

Good luck
Sasha

AnswerID: 83044