Diesel Prices vs Petrol

It is a very complex question....Petrol or diesel?

The new digital vehicles(as I call them) are far more superior to the vehicles of the the last century. They are more fuel efficient, more powerful and more complex. There are virtually no more quick fixes on the side of the road using bush mechanics techniques.

In the past petrol engines had a normal running life of under 400,000km before a rebuild was necessary whilst diesel engines could surpass the 500,000km mark before needing attention. Petrol engines were easier to rebuild at a relatively low cost whereas diesel engines cost a lot more to rebuild.

My reason for driving a diesel vehicle is that diesel is more readily available in remote parts of this country and that with a diesel engine under stress in remote and difficult terrain the fuel consumption should be better than that of a petrol engined vehicle.

The fuel prices are unexplainable. I read somewhere recently about the breakdown of the price of Unleaded fuel at 97c/l:
9c GST
5c Reseller margin
38c Govt Excise
45c Oil producer

So if diesel is an average of 10c more expensive only the government and the producer wins. The resellers margin will probably still remain at 5c. It is difficult to figure these things out. LPG has also gone through the roof and considering that gas is the last item to be produced from 'refining' a unit of crude oil one has to wonder why. Some years ago the oil producers were burning the gas to get rid of it. In 2006 the government is going to increase the tax on LPG.

Aaron.
It is a difficult question and one that many people would not even consider. But I know people that after having owned diesels would never own another.

With the wide availability of petrol in remote locations, and the high cost of diesel, I think it is becoming very difficult not to consider the 4.8 given that the TD6 is such a dog. But if running costs is important, then the 3 litre is a clear winner I think.

At least when you do make your decision, you know you will have considered all options.

Sean

Hi Fusion,

Yes, interesting question..IMHO it depends a lot on your intended use.

The Economy argument is one that the 3.0Di should win hands down these days with 10K service intervals and no need for regular tappet adjustments like the older diesels. I'd find it hard to believe the service costs are greatly different to the 4.8. even if there is a reasonable price differential in the fuel. I have seen highway economy of low 10L/100Km in mine even with slightly larger tyres.

On the other hand a diesel is noiser, smellier and generally less refined to drive than the Petrol around town and on the highway.

For mine the difference comes down to fuel availability where you want to travel and more importantly fuel RANGE. Obviously a 3.0Di will go a lot further on standard tanks than a 4.8, but if you have the ability to carry exta fuel or it's available in the places you go then it's not a problem.

Then there are the isses of power and Auto towing capacity.

Really, if you don't need fuel RANGE or have availability concerns, want more power and Auto towing capacity, it's pretty hard to go past the 4.8.

Regds

Bill

diesel is $1.15 in SA

diesel round here has been 10c a litre dearer than petrol the last few weeks.......

And crackles from here ran a big desert trip recently, and had a V6 prado 120 series grande on the trip, which averaged 13lt per 100km driving in the sand.

A caravan mag did a test recently also on petrol and diesel prado for towing, and found the V6 would be cheaper by about $2000 over 100,000km to run.

Having said that, money isnt everything, and the petrol is certainly much more pleasant to drive, fill at the servo, etc.

I have noticed in Adelaide over the past 6 years (up until recently) that Diesel and Petrol were roughly the same price, but at different times. By that I mean, petrol may be up to say 98c one week, and Diesel $1.10. Then over the period of a couple of weeks, petrol will rise to $1.10, and diesel down to $1.00. Seems to me that Diesel prices follow petrol prices by a week or two, a time lag if you like. I noticed this regularly as I said over the past 6 years. But recently with the skyrocketing price of both, the diesel is consitantly at least 10c over the petrol. Given diesel is easier and cheaper to refine, I would love to know how much the governement pockets out of it.

Made me think too, if diesel stays at least 10% more expensive, that would maybe be the minimim extra fuel economy you would get out of a diesel of the same car (eg v6 vs 3.0 4cyl TD jackaroo), and given the extra initial costs of a T/D (Just look at landcruisers!) then may have to rethink next vehicle.

D-Jack

I have no idea why the price of diesel is so high at $1.16 here at present but when you consider the production cost is substantially cheaper to produce than ULP, you must wonder if we are being ripped off or not. I can guarantee one thing though. The government will do Zipp about it as they are creaming in the extra revenue. It may have something to do with the fact that trucking companies and primary producers get rebates and claim back GST so their costs are tempered a bit while the 4WD fraternity who use diesel get screwed again.
Just my cynical opinion.

G'day all,

Refer to Japmel posting on this site "100 series Landcruiser" for more discussion on this subject. The main advantage in a diesel as I see it, is the effectiveness of using gears for braking going down steep hills, plus they have more torque and are more fuel efficient. Further, fuel handling/transfer is safer and you're not likely to be stalked by sniffers in the outback.

What I want to know is why diesel is only 75% of the price of ULP in every other country bar Australia??

Mr. Howard may have the answer.

Cheers....................Rob

Coming fron another angle here, in a previous working life I had dealings with a fellow who was involved in the oil industry (actually owned a well) - he told me that diesel is more expensive due to opportunity cost. That is, the crude oil being used for diesel requires very little refinening and therefore produces less by-products that can be sold - meaning they have to charge more for diesel to make the same money. Now this guy was no idiot but I'm open to corrections.

Kind regards

G'day Fusion,

Recently on the msn caravanners forum there was a diesel Vs gas "discussion", where I was able to extract some real numbers (from www.justcruisin.bigpondhosting.com) over an 18,000 Km trip from Adelaide to Darwin, over to Broom, Perth, Albany and back to Adelaide - from June to October this year with a 4.5L ST Patrol converted to LPG towing a 21Ft Jayco Heritage van. See the calculations below - the vehicle choice being considered was a 4.5L Patrol dual fuel at $40K Vs 4.2L TD at $55K ...

"G'day again Baygypsy,

This is fascinating - and I read with interest Mick & Sally's (JustCruisin) response as I was an avid follower of their recent "Big One" - especially as I bought a '99 4.5 Patrol Ti at 88K Km to pull my (ordered) Jayco Heritage like theirs, and had it converted to LPG, but unlike JustCruisin, had a long range petrol tank (75L) added to keep me out of trouble, rather than keeping the 37L sub tank. $36,000 converted, including electric brakes and HR WDH.

If you go to the web site and look at JustCruisin Trip Costs and Fuel Costs everywhere along the way (Adelaide/Darwin/Broome/Perth/Albany/Adelaide), you will see:
Avg LPG: $0.685/L
Avg Diesel: $1.19/L (and for interest, ULP $1.181)
Distance travelled on LPG 18,178 Km at average of 3.19 Km/L LPG at a cost of $3,988.
Diesel Km/L to equal this cost gives 5.4Km/L (3351L at $1.19)
NRMA road test on Patrol 4.2 TD (April, 2003) shows avg test diesel usage at 7.75 Km/L (12.9L/100Km) - unladen.
It is not unreasonable to assume with a 2T van on the back that consumption might drop to say 6.75Km/L.
If this were true, then over the 18,178Km, 2693 L of diesel would be used at $1.19/L equates to $3204 - a saving on the LPG of $783 for the trip.
BUT the diesel costs (as you say) $15,000 more to buy - so you will have to travel
(15,000/783) x 18,178 = 348,000 Km to get a payback!!!

The numbers tell a story, presuming the asumption of 6.75Km/L diesel with van is correct! If they were worse than that, the payback would be even longer. Interesting what?

When I purchased the Patrol Ti (and I like the comforts it offers over the ST) I calculated I would need to drive 28K Km normal driving or 17K Km with a van to pay back the LPG conversion and long range petrol tank cost of $3,300 - and anything above that is money in the bank!"

While "JustCruisin" had to use petrol on a few occasions, notably when it got too hot for the LPG to load(!), LPG would seem to offer a level of fuel economy - and in my own Patrol Ti, I really can't notice the difference when driving - and as mentioned, I've added a 75L Petrol tank in place of the sub tank to give extra range when needed.

What do you think?

LPGPete

aaron. I have had my diesel 4runner for 12 mths.went for diesel for economy.Living in brisbane I know the problem of fuel prices.We get variations of over 15 cents per litre more for diesel(why????).with that,for comparison from my vehicles,my previous car was a toyota bundera,2.4 petrol,(they have almost full hilux running gear).city driving consumption was 430km on 70litres.2.8 diesel 4runner is getting 530km on 55 litres.With the increased fuel prices it still costs me on average $55-$60 per fill. As for NRMA or anyone else,running costs of a vehicle
take into account servicing cost,which for most diesels are every 5000km,petrol every 10000km.Because diesels are serviced more often obviously running costs are going to be higher.As for choosing what to buy,that depends on whether you want quick acceleration or strong pulling power.example,my bundy was very fast but I did trip across the Simpson Desert with a troppy.On the way up the Toowoomba range from bris I could not keep up.Hills really killed it,particularly with loads.
To fuel prices I think you will have to talk to Little Johnny about that one.
pete.

Hi Fusion,

Just something to consider, but I've found the price of diesel doesn't increase so much out of town and in some cases it's been cheaper. I have seen LPG almost double in some remote areas and ULP increase by almost 50%.

My last 4by was on Gas with 5.2 litre V8 motor and now I have a 3.0 litre Patrol. Running costs around town are almost the same, but in remote areas the diesel wins hands down.

Chaz

O.K. - so I took both the 3.0TD Auto (again) and the 4.8 Auto for a drive this afternoon.

Oh boy, that petrol engine is a thing of beauty, the acceleration is fantastic. I've read somewhere under 11 seconds to 100km/h and I'd believe it. In one run through reasonably heavy traffic, I used that power 3 times to get into or out of the traffic when I wanted to, rather than when I was 'able' to.

The 3.0TD is another beast altogether. I described it as a more sedate way of life to the Nissan guy with me. They are both very smooth, with little noise in the cabin. Based on engine noise in the cabin I'm not sure you could tell which version you were driving. It only became obvious when you touched the go pedal. (very obvious!)

Even though I looove the power of the Petrol, I'm leaning towards the TD. With a D-Tronic in the Diesel they both produce the exact same about of Torque. 420Nm - 4.8 at 3600rpm, 3.0 at 2000rpm. So I expect the TD to perform offroad, even if it doesn't on the road.

The range and fuel efficiency is what is tipping me towards the TD. (The TD also costs much less over 5yrs according to NRMA - but that didn't include converting it to LPG) We hope to get outback fairly regularly (maybe twice per year for 1mth at a time) and we do some decent KM's up and down the east coast. I love the thought of being able to drive 1200+ km without refueling. Using LPG in the Petrol would require a stop every 400k's on the highway, much less off it.

Latest deal I have from Nissan includes everything from my last post +
Hard spare wheel cover (stainless steel)
rear floor tray (plastic)
Cargo Barrier (Milford) about $1150 worth RRP all up.

Patrol ST-S 3.0 TD, Auto - $53,788 on the road.
Inc. Cruise control
Tow Pack,
Carpets front and back
Headlight and bonnet protector.

Silver with black interior in Alcantara - a new synthetic suede type material. (supposedly dirt and moisture resistant, and won't wear like natural material)
I also plan to trade the bridgestones for Cooper ATR's right away. (90,000km warranty). The rest of the mods will have to wait until next year when we plan to really get away.

All up about $10,000 less than RRP on the road.

I'm still not decided but I hope to be by next week. I've been leaning this way and that on the TD vs Petrol all week. Thanks for your help so far, and I'll keep you posted.

Wish we had the fuel prices that they have in Venezuela. Only 3c per litre (yep, three US cents). You can't find many diesel cars over there. Just cheap fuel and beautiful women.

Global Fuel Prices

Fusion,

I was reading the discussion on your choice between diesel and petrol..

Very interesting responses

So what did you choose???

Kon