Test drove a new Patrol & Prado
Submitted: Monday, Nov 22, 2004 at 09:38
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H2O
Went and test drove a new Patrol and Prado on Saturday. Drove the Patrol 1st, 3.0TD ST Manual. Went
well, very smooth, nice vehicle to drive apart from the turbo lag. The salesman told me that they have modified the gear box and it is doey in 1st but 2nd and 3rd have plenty of go about them - designed for better towing. He was right the vehicle went very
well on the highway but around town the turbo lag is dangerous. I think the turbo cuts in around 2000rpm and is noticable in all the gears. I can't help to think this could make an uncomfortable ride while 4WDing and you would be under the turbo often and keep feeling the turbo kicking in.
I was almost sold on the Patrol, just alittle concerned about the lag but I thought I should drive a Prado. The only vehicle the dealer had that I could drive was a 90 series 3.0TD auto. As soon as I jumped in I knew it was too small but then driving it you could feel no turbo lag and I was very impressed with the way the vehicle went. They had a new 3.0TD manual GXL that was sold and he took me for a drive in that which is a bigger car than the 90 series. Sitting in the passenger
seat it seemed to perform heaps better than the Patrol and had a few extras that the Patrol didn't have. I just need to find one to drive it myself
My gut feeling is the Prado is worlds ahead of the Patrol for road driving but obviously offroad the Patrol would be the better vehicle. I am looking into whether I can get a decent bbar for the Prado as I am not impressed with the toyota ones. The toyota dealer reconed that the Patrol would end up being around $4000 cheaper than a Prado.
I really liked the Prado and the vehicle will be used for mainly highway stuff with the Mrs driving more than half the time. She has a horse float to tow (only 3-4 times a year) and I go up to the gulf fishing yearly towing a 4m tinny on an offroad trailer. I like the 6 stack MP3 CD player they are putting in then Prados now. I am concerned how tuff they are and how capable they are off road. Prado comes std with ABS and DAT.
Cheers
Reply By: MrBitchi - Monday, Nov 22, 2004 at 09:42
Monday, Nov 22, 2004 at 09:42
Give the Pajero DID a test drive.
John
AnswerID:
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Follow Up By: H2O - Monday, Nov 22, 2004 at 09:52
Monday, Nov 22, 2004 at 09:52
I suppose I should. I have never been a Mitisbushi fan and I think the Pajero hasn't got enough ground clearance.
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Follow Up By: MrBitchi - Monday, Nov 22, 2004 at 10:13
Monday, Nov 22, 2004 at 10:13
If you check the stats for all the vehicles you'll find the Pajero has as much, if not more ground clearance than the opposition vehicles.
Pajero 225mm
Prado 207mm
Cruiser 210mm
Not sure about the Nissan.....
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Follow Up By: Utemad - Monday, Nov 22, 2004 at 10:33
Monday, Nov 22, 2004 at 10:33
The main difference between the three other than size and body construction would be the
suspension.
Patrol - solid axle f&r
Prado - Solid rear & independent front
Pajero - Independent f&r
So Patrol would be better offroad, then Prado, then Pajero.
This assumes that where you go requires wheel travel and underbody clearance while using wheel travel.
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Follow Up By: MrBitchi - Monday, Nov 22, 2004 at 10:42
Monday, Nov 22, 2004 at 10:42
Utemad,
Technically you are correct, but in the real world, for the average 4WDriver (and H20's stated intentions) it doesn't make much difference which type of
suspension you have, except on road, where most 4WD's spend 95% of their time. Then the independently sprung Pajero is in front.
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Follow Up By: Utemad - Monday, Nov 22, 2004 at 11:05
Monday, Nov 22, 2004 at 11:05
Exactly why I said that the order I gave was offroad where you need clearance while articulating.
I'm looking at Prados at the moment because they'll go where I go although not as
well as a Patrol but they're better on road. So that's a compromise.
Full independent would be useless to me as I wouldn't be able to do what I like to do. However a friend of
mine raves about his DiD Pajero Exceed as he only does beach driving while towing an offroad trailer.
He says he goes offroad but he didn't say doing what.
Horses for courses (maybe not main course LOL).
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Follow Up By: GO_OFFROAD - Monday, Nov 22, 2004 at 15:52
Monday, Nov 22, 2004 at 15:52
If you check ther RTI of the patrol and prado, they may be ALOT closer than you realise.
The prado will certainly go 95% of
places people are happy to take them, and the patrol may also go 95, or even 96% of
places too, but as you have discovered, one will do it much nicer for the driver than the other, especially where the car spends 95% of its time, on the road.
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Follow Up By: Utemad - Monday, Nov 22, 2004 at 16:12
Monday, Nov 22, 2004 at 16:12
On one recent club trip there were two V6 95series Prados. One struggled to go
places my Rodeo did although he had highway tyres and perhaps a buggered LSD. The other one went everywhere anyone else did (including
places some Patrol drivers refused) although usually on 3
wheels. However he had twin air lockers, lift kit (50mm?) and BFG A/T tyres.
So the second Prado is the type of vehicle I'll be after.
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Follow Up By: Back tracks- Wednesday, Nov 24, 2004 at 20:59
Wednesday, Nov 24, 2004 at 20:59
Pajeros are sale proof at the moment.
Prado all day long. Better in every regard ...
The Patrol is a competitor to the LC100 for the record but the smaller Prado still kills it in every way.
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Follow Up By: Back tracks- Wednesday, Nov 24, 2004 at 21:02
Wednesday, Nov 24, 2004 at 21:02
A correction on the initial post. Prado does not come standard with DAT.
You should be able to buy a T/D 4 speed auto ( only the petrol gets the new 5 speed ) for 51,000 drive away if you
shop hard.
;)
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Follow Up By: MrBitchi - Thursday, Nov 25, 2004 at 08:41
Thursday, Nov 25, 2004 at 08:41
Hmmm,
ALL Pajeros come with the brilliant 5sp Invecs2 transmission. ALL Pajeros have MATT.
Seems like the Prado still has some catching up to do......:-)
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Follow Up By: Utemad - Thursday, Nov 25, 2004 at 09:28
Thursday, Nov 25, 2004 at 09:28
"ALL Pajeros have MATT"
Who's Matt?
My mate Matt drives a Triton so it obviousy doesn't work the other way around :-)
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Follow Up By: MrBitchi - Thursday, Nov 25, 2004 at 09:36
Thursday, Nov 25, 2004 at 09:36
"Mitsubishi All Terrain Technology"
Mitsubishi's version of DAT.
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Follow Up By: Back tracks- Thursday, Nov 25, 2004 at 11:46
Thursday, Nov 25, 2004 at 11:46
My first Pajero experience was a 7,000km Pajero Petrol Exceed. I was looking forward to it as I had a 200km drive to do and it was the top spec. To say I was dissapointed was an understatement.
Underpowered and noisy is what sticks in my mind most and also very noisy in the rear under heavy accelleration.
Driven nearly 8 all up now and they are all the same.
Have you driven the new Prado ?
Now that is enjoyable.
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Follow Up By: MrBitchi - Thursday, Nov 25, 2004 at 11:52
Thursday, Nov 25, 2004 at 11:52
Like Ford V Holden.
The differences are minor but the follower of one will never consider the other in anything other than an unfavourable light. :--)
Have I driven one (new model)? Nah, to butt ugly for me....
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Follow Up By: GO_OFFROAD - Thursday, Nov 25, 2004 at 12:04
Thursday, Nov 25, 2004 at 12:04
unfortunatly mr mitsu, it isnt like ford/holden as they compete on price, where as there is no price parity toyota/nissan, nissan just market the patrol on power, and nothing else, to attract the ego driven, while Toyota's just sell, even with the worlds biggestbleepinvolved in the marketing.......
When you look at hire fleets, mining, outback stations, where the bottom line is most important, the % make up of toyota nissan, to those who work them hard is
well represtented like the sales %, and do you see any % of pajero's in those environments?
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Follow Up By: Utemad - Thursday, Nov 25, 2004 at 12:09
Thursday, Nov 25, 2004 at 12:09
It's a pity that you want to end this discussion you guys are having. I'm killing myself laughing here!!!
However what is even funnier is that you called ARB and TJM 'experts'.
They are just salesmen. Sure some of their employees have great experience but they are just trying to sell stuff same as any other salesmen. ARB told me it was physically impossible to lift my Rodeo. What BS as it is just because they don't sell the parts.
Although the Last ARB guy I talked to said he really wanted a new Patrol.
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Follow Up By: GO_OFFROAD - Thursday, Nov 25, 2004 at 12:13
Thursday, Nov 25, 2004 at 12:13
i think he means head office for each, not the sales showrooms........ though i doubt they would admit what they find publicly.
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Reply By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Monday, Nov 22, 2004 at 10:01
Monday, Nov 22, 2004 at 10:01
G'day H20,
Not sure whether it applies to the 3 litre Patrol as much as the 4.2 that I own, but, Patrols are notorious for taking many thousands of k's to loosen up.
Mine was still tight up to about 35,000klm. Also, bear in mind you are not comparing apples with apples. The Patrol has a massive gearbox (probably weighs as much as the engine of the Prado!!!! just kidding) and it's designed to be used off road primarily, but also to be capable on the road. The Prado, on the other hand, is chiefly a "town" car which is also quite capable off road. It's
suspension and drive train are nowhere near as tough as that of the Patrol.
I'm not trying to start a fight here, just stating my opinion.
AnswerID:
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Follow Up By: Member - Captain (WA) - Monday, Nov 22, 2004 at 11:00
Monday, Nov 22, 2004 at 11:00
Just to add to Roachies comment about running, I had a noticeable improvement in power at ~20,000kms that I was not expecting. Even the 3.0TD's need some distance to run in properly.
I agree the 3.0TD isn't the best at very low revs, but the one you drove sounds particualrly bad. Don't know if the changes Nissan have done to the new model have made any difference but I would suggest trying a different demo to see. But given your driving requirements the Prado sounds like it fits the bill better (except maybe tje towing weight).
Cheers
Captain
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Reply By: Member - Rob J (WA) - Monday, Nov 22, 2004 at 10:36
Monday, Nov 22, 2004 at 10:36
If you are going to tow, the 3litre man Patrol can tow up to 3200 kgs.
The Prado is limited to 2500 kgs.
Something to think of as you mention a horse float
AnswerID:
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Reply By: Mike - Monday, Nov 22, 2004 at 10:40
Monday, Nov 22, 2004 at 10:40
I have a mid 2003 patrol 3.o l d with auto - have not noticed any turbo lag, constantly tow a 2 tonne boat - not a problem.
Mike
AnswerID:
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Reply By: Chaz - Monday, Nov 22, 2004 at 10:46
Monday, Nov 22, 2004 at 10:46
H20
As Roachie said "you are not comparing apples with apples"
You should have taken an auto Patrol for a drive, no turbo lag and very smooth.
Chaz
AnswerID:
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Follow Up By: H2O - Monday, Nov 22, 2004 at 10:52
Monday, Nov 22, 2004 at 10:52
Chaz, they only had a manual new one there. They also had a 2003 2nd hand one there auto that I took for a drive straight after I got back from driving the new manual. I found the auto was doey but not as bad as the manual. I am interested in the manual cause they have got more power and torque out the motor with the manual gearbox and the auto box still has the same power and torque figures as the old model. I found the 2003 vehicle rougher, like stiffer
suspension but they said there is no change to the
suspension.
What to choose? If there was no lag I'd say the Patrol as it was a very nice ride and for what I do I think it would be perfect. Maybe a Dtronic could solve the dramas? What is the Nissan warranty view on dtronic?
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Follow Up By: flappan - Monday, Nov 22, 2004 at 11:06
Monday, Nov 22, 2004 at 11:06
Dtronic + Fitting = No Nissan Warranty.
Simple as , Nissan dont want to know.
However , being a simple plug in device , plug in, and pull out at service time.
I would be giving the Pajero TD a real looksee before deciding.
Would be the top motor of this bunch.
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Follow Up By: Chaz - Monday, Nov 22, 2004 at 11:07
Monday, Nov 22, 2004 at 11:07
H20,
I understand your concerns, because I went through the same thing a few years ago. In the end only you have to be happy with your choice.
In my case, I chose the Auto Patrol, but wasn't happy with the slow smooth shifting of the gears, so I fitted a shift kit that made a heap of difference. Now it changes gear quickly and crisply, and it drives a little more directly with not as much slip. Then all it needs is a Dtronic to give 133Kw and 420Nm and in my opinion, a near perfect all round 4WD, for the money.
Not sure what Nissan think of the Dtronic, but nothing has been said to me, and I doubt if they would care unless something went wrong, and then just unplug it. They would have to go looking for it to find it anyway, because it is well hidden up under the dash. But it is easy to remove.
Good Luck
Chaz
http://members.bettanet.net.au/~conody/index.htm
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Follow Up By: Member - Captain (WA) - Monday, Nov 22, 2004 at 11:10
Monday, Nov 22, 2004 at 11:10
Hi H2O,
I have the dtronic fitted to my 2003 GU 3.0TD and have had it serviced by the dealer since new. Originally i used to take the Dtronic out (only 1 bolt on the plug) but now I leave it in.
While you cannot guarantee Nissan head office's reaction if something went wrong, my talking with the dealer is that its not an issue and "if it isn't there when something goes wrong, how do we know you have one :)"
As for the difference with the Dtronic, you can lug the engine down to idle in 3rd gear and accelerate easily for peak hour freeway driving. Also, the dtronic allows me to idle in reverse my van up my drive in low range whereas without, it simply stalls.
While the dtronic certainly adds to
top end power, my reason for fitting is the much stronger bottom end response, something the 3.0TD didn't previously have much of in comparison to my old 4.2 1HZJ.
Cheers
Captain
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Reply By: Flash - Monday, Nov 22, 2004 at 11:04
Monday, Nov 22, 2004 at 11:04
Yeh,
Have extensively driven manual and auto Patrol 3.o diesels.
Very, very different vehicles. The auto revs more and doesn't seem to suffer from "lag" at all as it always finds the right gear and the right revs.
Manual on the other hand- if you try to accelerate out of a corner and you're not in the right gear- then it feels horribly gutless till the turbo kicks in.
Although I personally prefer manual, if I had the 3.0 litre I would very seriously consider the auto. (though it does have a lower recommended tow weight limit- probably to do with not overheating the transmission. A better tranny cooler would be on my list of extras!)
A very good mate tows Horse floats and a big caravan with his 3.0 Patrol auto and loves it. He previously had a gas guzzling petrol Landcruiser and would never go back to the gas guzzler.
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Follow Up By: Back tracks- Saturday, Nov 27, 2004 at 19:51
Saturday, Nov 27, 2004 at 19:51
Yes but he could not afford a real T/d like the LC100
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Reply By: Member - T-bone (ACT) - Monday, Nov 22, 2004 at 13:56
Monday, Nov 22, 2004 at 13:56
TRUCKSTER, WHERE ARE YOU?!?!?!? They're talking Nissan 3.0L's..... :)
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Follow Up By: TheUndertaker - Saturday, Nov 27, 2004 at 22:01
Saturday, Nov 27, 2004 at 22:01
WENT MAD AND WE SHOT HIM.
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Reply By: prado_95 - Wednesday, Dec 22, 2004 at 00:10
Wednesday, Dec 22, 2004 at 00:10
Dont forget that the Patrol weighs a bunch more. That weight eats into any advantages that may be assumed due to the extra 'power'.
The fact is that Prado (TD) has a flatter power curve that the Nissan(which is biased for
top end performance). For towing and off road work (particularly sand) the torque at the bottom end and mid range is important.
In the off roadd department dont be surprised to see both vehicles capable of going the same
places (assuming same configuration).
Yes 'chips' or 'modules' are avail for the Prado TD engine too, and will produce comparable performance between the two vehicles ( I know at least one Prado TD that will out run a 80 series petrol on the highway & LPG pump) while covering 98% of the offroad conditions.
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