RACV Best all terrain 4WD surprise result.

Just after the Nissan Patrol in ninth place. A creditable position out of 18 cars.

'Royal Auto' is the Royal Automobile Club of Victoria's magazine. Sorry no Pommy paddocks just a comparison using the catorgories of Value for money, Design & function, On the road & off the road ability.

It appears to me to be a travel, finance and insurance mag with a few token car pages thrown in attempting to keep it honest.

...but I reckon Kylie has a better bottom

PS - is this crap?

Andrew....Not sure what you mean...maybe you are getting anus and derrier mixed up...Anyway why aren't you at work as it is not your RDO?

He He ;-)

Read the full pdf and you will see why you wombat ;)

The comparison of the vehicles does not explain why the majority of ExplorOz forumites disagree with the motoring organizations that petrol is the preferable fuel for a four wheel drive.

Wombat, those journos rate importance on different criteria than most on this website. The best vehicle to purchase is one that best suits your own purpose not some tar loving cowboys.

If you knew how IFS worked you would reliase how very foolish that statement was.

I think In Hock that if you knew how IFS worked then you would be aware of it's limitations and realise that in fact it is your statement that is foolish.

IFS is perfectly adequate for what 99.99% of us do. For the very few that go extreme rock crawling you may get better articulation with a solid axle. For desert and bush touring there is simply no need to specify solid axle. IFS has a number of advantages that make it very attractive. I have one of each so can claim to be unbiased by the "I own 'A' so 'A' is best" mentality.

Its 3 years ago now, but met an often read motoring journalist halfway along the Gunbarrel, he was driving a 100 series with IFS. His plaint was that he could not keep up the shockers to it - very short life.

That never appeared in his articles - I assume that his sponsors could not provide ones to do the job. Seems like at that stage ifs had a way to go. Is it more reliable now?

Max

Speak for yourself Bob of KAOS but half way up (or down for that matter) a steep rutted track when the weather turns bad I can tell you exactly why I will only own a 4by with live axles at both ends.

For those never do leave dirt roads then IFS is fine. However you still can't say that live axles 'may' provide bettter articulation. They do.

I think driver skill is what you would need. Not solid axle.

Rhubarb, each to their own but I drive a solid axel for work and an IFS for my personal vehicle and I can tell you which one drives better on the road is very easy to pick. As far as off road goes, yeah I might occaiosally get a front wheel off the ground when going a bit hard core (which I like to think I do, look at my rig pics if you like for a taste). But I have seen plenty of solid axel vehicles loose traction at the front end also, just because you (potentially) have slightly more articulation does not mean that you have removed your swaybar, put longer shocks and springs on and actually allowed the use of this potential.
How many people drive around with a solid axel vehicle with it stock standard thinking that they have the be all and end all because they can't corner at 110km/h on a rough surfaced highway. You need more than just a solid axel to get full advantage out if it off road.
And yeah InHock, you spot on mate, driver skill is much more necessary than solid axel.
I'm no "Mr Experience" off road but I like to think I at least have a clue, I have never been left behind in a convoy by solid axel vehicles, IFS has never slowed me down and never come close to stopping me.

solid axle is much more than just articulation. its about toughness, simplicity, practicality, ease and economy of customising....there is a place for ifs and from what i hear and read the prado set-up is superior to the big cruiser which has rightly copped an almighty hammering here and elsewhere (put on a helmet and check the archives).
I may buy a prado one day - but i will never expect to be doing HARDCORE offroading in it.

you clearly don't have the foggiest what you are on about.

We all understand that IFS is much better on road. Thats why all passenger cars use it as well IRS.

Lives axles not only offer superior articulation but they more importantly keep the belly up in the air. When one side of IFS compresses in tricky terrain your at risk at beaching the belly. With a life axle when one side compresses the other side compensates by pressing down on the other side keeping the belly of the ground and also improving traction to that wheel by placing more weight on it. That doesn't happen with IFS.

you need to familiarise yourself with vehicles fitted with IFs but built this century mate.

Your ideas and beliefs are archaic.

So far In hock you have made three negative coments to this one post. Why don't you inform us how IFS gets around such situations? I really would like to learn.

roobarb, its hard to convert those who cant see , but there are some here how would freely admit they havent been able to follow IFS, we spent 3 hours winching a live axle afew weeks ago, which was stuck where I drove, both same size tyre, same lift, mine IFS, his live axle, and it was a wet rutted slippery hill.

The ease of alignment after a lift makes IFS great, no castor bushes, no lost neg camber, handling is greatly improved by lack of unsrung weight, and tyre load being equal per side, and one tyre uneffected by what the other does, and at full travel up or down you have the whole tread in contact with the ground because of camber/castor wound in by the unequal Arm design.

Now, when you have yourifS crossmember on the ground, the suspension droops the tyres still touch the ground, offerening some drive by the spring in ft lbs at least where as a live axl holds the wheels in the air, which is why we winched one for 3 hours the other week........

And my IFS prado has more clearance on 285's than my 78 series troopy had on 36" swampers, so I dont think clearance is an issue.

Minds are like parachutes, they only work when they are open...........

.

now i finally understand why all comp trucks use ifs for HARDCORE use! LOLOL!

A comp driver could get a rav 4 further down the track than you though.

well, facts are facts, regardless of how you try and twist it around to suit what you think, and comp trucks certainly arent the family truckster for 99% of people on this forum Im sure, but if it makes you feel better to think the way you do, and ignore some facts, you go right ahead ;-)

In hock yet another useless comment by you. Is that all your capable of?

GO_OFFROAD I can understand that IFS can offer a better foot print when touching the ground as it doesn't have the angle a live axle does.

I don't get where you coming from when your talking about lifting IFS as an advantage. You usually loose some articluation when lifting IFS, sure you gain some lift but loose articluation. As you stated above its the live axle that comes into its own when it's be lifted with long travel springs.

When I talk about ground clearance I am not talking about when a fouby is sitting on flat ground. I am talking about when IFS compresses on one side the belly drops so much closer to the ground because the opposite wheel isn't being pushed down to counter act - as with a live axle setup.

"Now, when you have yourifS crossmember on the ground, the suspension droops the tyres still touch the ground, offerening some drive by the spring in ft lbs at least where as a live axl holds the wheels in the air, which is why we winched one for 3 hours the other week........ "

I kind of get where you coming from here, and perhaps this is where IFS can offer an advantage over LA. The probelm I see though is with the IFS even though your able to get the second wheel to the ground your going to be dragging your crossmember along the ground?

If I am getting you correctly then could of the 4by with LA fixe the issue by taking a different line? If not let me know why. I'm just tyring to get a grasp of this situation.

Rhubarb, You are correct in that you would be dragging your crossmember, well actually your bash plate which covers your cross member, it creates some resistant in sand and mud etc if you do, however if you still have traction/power you can generally pull through without too many hassels. That's why the bash plate is there! :-P

Also limitations on IFS lifts (regarding articulation) can also be bypassed with several mod's (vehicle dependant). There are such mod's already for 4 runners and surfs that allow substantial suspension lifts without straining CV's or limiting articulation.

And before you say, Ah ha! it's easier to lift a solid axel yada yada, you still need camber corection kits and other crap if your planning on lifiting your solid axel beast by more than 2-3".
If you're only planning on lifting your IFS 2" the limitations on travel is barley noticable anyway.

Comp. Trucks. If you were going to buy a comp truck which would need thousands of $$$ spent on it and you had a budget would you buy a shorty 40 or a MQ patrol (solid axel and cheap) or a brand new prado 120.....????

I think suspension types have less to do with those choices than $$$ do IMHO.

OK, myth No 1 to dispell from your reply

The articulation is controlled by the shock compression and length and bump stop location, lifting the vehicle doesnt change these unless you change the shock [like I have which now improves total travel] and vehicle hieght change just changes the position the vehicle sits between the upper and lower limits, just like a live axle.

The advantage then comes from having all your front end settings being able to ensure the car handles correctly, and to suit the tyre you run [I tend to sent more neg camber for mud tyres to help turn in with tread squirm] which is certainly easier and cheaper on a IFS than a live axle unit.

Now, yes, when compressed the crossmember becomes closer, but the tyres are still adding traction to the ground, but the reverse is also true, where clearance improves when suspension extends, like when pointing uphill.

As for dragging the crossmember, well, it wouldnt have a nice smooth bash plate fitted to it, if it wasnt meant to drag sometimes ;-)

Now going back to your original reply of "long rutted hill raining etc, live axle for you, I simply added my experience to show what you were thinking wont always be correct either, as on the hill we were on, it was very wet, in a pine plantation, on a yellow clay hill, up to a switchback, where water had erroded a deep rut on one side, along with bike/4wd use, and there wer esome pine trees across the rut as well, and because it was uphill, and my IFS had more clearance, and my rear diff was smaller it also had more clearance for the same tyre size, I was dragging, but only enough to notice, not to stop,a nd I managed to get my car over excpt for the rear axle not only the ground, but the pine trees as well laying over the top, where as the vehicle behind me with same tyres as mine, same pressures, was unable to get out of the rut, and it had a 12-15 ft drop off the side if you did anyway, and it was dragging the front diff, the rear diff, and the gearbox xmember, and we had to dig, shovel in the ruts, broke an ARB extension strap on the winch, and had to snatch block with his 10000lb winch, while i turned around and hooked my 9500 HS onto him as well to get the car to move, which took us 3 hours to do.

I also find that the iFS works extremely well on snow, with one front tyre not upsetting the other, when making fresh tracks in fresh snow, [as some people here who have been snow driving with me have seen] and it also makes for a great vehicle in sand when the front wheels are independent of each other,a nd more neg camber is introduced as the suspension compresses.

Now Im not going to say pajero and hilux early IFS hasnt tainted some peoples ideas on IFS, but like everything that devlops, its doesnt mean it cant improve, be improved, or simply be no good, because you dont understand it.

Off road racing truggies run IFS with 32" of wheel travel, sure its expensive to make, but its possible, and as IFS gets 100 years development or more, like the cheap to produce live axle version, it too will become better price orientated, but until you have actually tried it, I feel you may struggle to comprehend it, hence your statements in your replies, though at least your asking some questions as well to try and better understand the differences.

before you make assumptions why dont YOU read it.

Ummm, I did, that's why I made the comment..............

Let me guess, "In Hock" due to the purchase/running/repair costs of a Toyota perhaps???

no I can afford that , that is why I did not compromise ;)

better than Roseanne Arnold in a "g" string

shadow