100 IFS A arm warranty

well would seem the competition, which sells a 1/4 the cars has lowered the bar in that respect, so they have been able to do the same.

"standard height" on the cruisers fron end! - GREAT. you might just scrape out of the woolies car park.

maybe santa should bring you a tape measure for xmas, as you obviously have never measured the clearance under one.........

As I have said before , he clearly does not have a clue what he talks about.

I agree with Andrew, they shouldn't use modded suspension to "get out of jail" on a cracked door pillar...... if it's faulty, fix it!!

Toyota's build quality is legendary.... perhaps they are slipping?????

sorry.... got crossed up with another email I was reading involving door pillars... LOL...LOL....

The warranty should still stand though!

GO_OFFROAD...

Standard LC100 IFS has 210mm ground clearance, which is I think the second lowest standard clearance of large 4wd's.

Patrol is 230mm (210 with wide wheels option)
Pajero is 225mm
LC100 GXL is 210mm
Prado is 207mm

Not sure on Disco/Rangie.

Peter

Is that front, rear or both?????

And you havent specified the height of your woolies car park, but if a cruiser drags, then the falcons and commodores must park in the street do they?

Clearance (At least what's shown in the specs) is always measured to the bottom of the front crossmember.

If you crawl under a Cruiser/patrol/Prado etc with a live axle somewher the clearance to the bottom of the diff is usually lower than the front crossmember...

basically if you drive over a rock (without the wheel going over it) it has to be smaller than the listed clearance or you will bang the front crossmember. (And the diff if the rock is in the middle of the car)

Peter

Sorry pj but that is a crock. all manufacturers measure in a different spot so you can't compare one figure with the next.

Subaru quote this for the Outback ..

Min. ground clearance* mm 200

Put one side by side with the Prado and you can see it is nowhere near the clearance. As always Toyota don't fudge figures to make their trucks look better. don't have too.

Are you sure about this,??????

because i know the measurements, and the crossmember isnt as low as the rear diff, so be careful blaming the crossmember for the low clearnce, unless you know for sure.

He isn't sure . He is just repeating what a friend of a friend of a friend told him ... Based on ......... well based on a lie.

just like your not sure that what you said is actually correct..........I guess.

I know it is correct as it is in each manufacturers owners manual. See where they measure on each vehicle and compare. come on guys get out those owners manuals and set this straight.

Isn't ground clearance measured from under the lowest point on the car? No not under the tyres LOL. I mean under the diff for a solid axle or somewhere like the crossmember for the independent suspension. If this is the case then an independent vehicle is always going to have more clearance on a flat surface but as soon as an independent wheel is squished up into a wheel well then the crossmember loses clearance. Whereas if a solid axles wheel goes up into its well the diff goes up too.

So what your saying is, they measure it with the suspension compresssed???????

It would seem some of you are only guessing, and while clearance drops when compressed, it also improves when drooping too....... like pointing uphill......

I said it was a guess G_O however I won't even hazard a guess as to what your first point is. I never said anything about measuring with the suspension compressed.

I'm not trying to bag IFS however i would prefer to know how much clearance is under my vehicle as opposed to having clearance that varies from FA to lots.

you said
"I said it was a guess G_O however "

where in your post does it say its a guess??

And you say you never said anything about measuring suspension compressed yet you start off talking baout how they measure, which you now say you were guessing, from the lowest point, then proceed to talk about what you think is the lowest point on an IFS when its compressed.......

Perhaps you should re read what you send before you send it...........

The very first part of my followup was posed as a question. Besides everything on this forum is opinion. I have never seen anyone state their professional qualifications on this forum.

Why don't you tell us where it is measured from? You seem to have said a lot without saying anything at all.

Not that it's important what a manufacturer states as ground clearance anyway. The only way to get the figures you need is to measure the vehicle yourself.

So what was your post then, was it a guess?.....a question? an opinion?

Make up your mind, before you run out of options......

then you said
"Not that it's important what a manufacturer states as ground clearance anyway. The only way to get the figures you need is to measure the vehicle yourself."

And people like you are stating opinions and guessing about something you know how to fix, I have measured it, and I know what it is, so when you try and hide behind what you meant, by trying to say it wasnt what you meant, your trying to tell someone who already knows, and, obviously now, you do too, so although you have been twisting what you said, you have at least learned something today.................

Read my followup again and make up your own mind.

I never wrote anything about fixing something. This is about clearance. Lay off the pills man.

It is irrelevant that you have measured it. This is about where the manufacturers get their figures from. I've measured my Rodeos clearance and I know I have more static front clearance then rear clearance but who cares as this is not what it is about.

You say I am telling someone who knows? Then by all means tell us. How is it I have learned something from this if you haven't said anything.

Your turn...............

I can tell you now, because you have asked, but before you were simply mouthing off what you thought you knew, and you arent conducive to talking and listening at the same time, and you then tried to explain you were guessing, but if you had nay substance, you would of stood up for what you meant, if you were sure you were right......so i led you to here, and now you even learned the only way to get the real deal, is go measure it for yourself, as you said, yet you still ask me what it is......... ahhh grasshopper, it is better to have tried and failed, than to have never tried....

Now go get your tape measure ....

I wouldn't call stating an opinion mouthing off. I would call telling people off without ever offering any suggestions of your own mouthing off.

I'm sure it is quite apparent to anybody that the only way to get the true clearance is to measure it yourself. No big surprises there. However the whole basis of this is about where the manufacturers measure it from. So I can't see how this has any relevance at all. Just because someone wanted to know where the measurements were taken from doesn't mean that everyone who responded thought that those measurements were gospel.

As for standing up for what I believe in..... it wasn't so much of a guess as something that sounded like common sense. Otherwise manufactures would quote clearance figures as being the lowermost point of the engine mounts or something equally dumb. I have no evidence to back it up otherwise I would have produced it.

In fact I couldn't give a crap about manufacturers measurements. This is just a bit of fun. As I am sure it is for you. Now I have to go so feel free to continue on so as to give me something to do later.

Cheers.

You better quit while your ahead here utemad......LOLOL

you said
"I wouldn't call stating an opinion mouthing off."

Yet you said you were guessing, so what was it????

then you said
"I'm sure it is quite apparent to anybody that the only way to get the true clearance is to measure it yourself.'

If its so apparent, why do you keep asking me what it is?????

My friend...(Who doesn't lie by the way) is an engineer at Ford and was involved with the Territory.
He knows what he is talking about. It is the height of rudeness and arrogance to accuse anyone of lying when you a) have no idea who they are and therefore b) have no idea what they know.

This follow up thread has degenerated into name calling and slander. "I must be right because I can denigrate and intimidate you". Not exactly conducive to solving any problem or answering any question. If you can't counter an argument without resorting to name calling etc.. Don't bother.

I'm sorry if I've offended anyone but I joined here to take part in intelligent/informed discussion, not opinionated chest beating.

However this is my 5 cents worth on Live versus independant suspension:

Do Live axles have more ground clearance? Not necessarily as the diff which is fixed in relation to the wheels can be a real problem in some circumstances, eg Mud, Sand narrow tracks with ruts. In short anywhere with large obstacles directly under the vehicle that do not extend to the wheel tracks. Any track where the middle of the track is higher than the wheel areas can cause real problems for a live axle vehicle.
The simple solution, of course, is to fit larger wheel/tyre combinations as this will increase clearance to the diff. But there are significant legal issues with this.

So why a live axle? They are simpler mechanically. They are stronger. They require less maintainence. They can have much more travel (Assuming it is a coil spring set up). Live axle vehicles (with separate chassis) also tend to have better ramp over (except where the rear drive shaft is).

Cons: high unsprung weight. Limited control of wheel geometry.

Why Independent?

Handling. Due to their lower unsprung weight wheel control is much better allowing the suspension to do its job better. What is the job of the suspension? To keep all four wheels on the ground as much as possible. On bitumen/gravel roads and good quality tracks an independant suspension vehicle will do this much better.

Pros: Better high speed handling.
Cons: Can be complex. Complexity leads to cost. Limited travel compared to Live axles. Generally not as strong.

My personal opinion is that since my vehicle spends 99% of its time on roads/tracks and I'm not in to extreme 4wd/rock crawling independant suits me better as I like a vehicle that handles well on corrugations and bitumen/gravel and the independent suspension 4wd's do this better.

Peter

Youve commented on it now, so looks like your in too,

you said
"I'm sorry if I've offended anyone but I joined here to take part in intelligent/informed discussion, not opinionated chest beating."

well, looks like you came to the wrong spot, unless you want a live axle cheaper truck fitted out with supercheap accessories, and your prepared to defend them rigourously, and try and defend your purchase should any data appear which doesnt make your purchase seem best......

But it makes for good viewing after the odd hand grenade has been lobbed into a thread ;-)

Absolutely.

And while none of us often care to admit, the vehicle which we choose is not necessarily the best for everyone. I would kill myself in a Patrol as I generally drive far to fast on gravel/corrugations etc. On the other hand I have been known to look at a hill off road and just go...Nope..I don't think I can do that...Let's go round...

The real problem (as I see it) is that the manufacturers all seem to be following the same path. Some faster than others, which means that those of us that do want/need certain features simply can't get them.

It's all very well to point at traction control systems and say, but it goes everywhere last years model went, if you can't trick it up to go where you want to go.

The random chest beating that goes on tho, can cause the people who originally asked the question to either give up, or form an erroneous opinion.

And in actuality, this particular thread has nothing to do with the original question!

Still it has been fun!

Peter

Fun, being the ultimate word ;-)

Forums like this are really no more than a bunch of people standing around the bar, or the camp fire, chatting, stirring, and offering the odd bit of info worth listening too, and experiences, and like all good things, you only get what you pay for, and everything here is free..... ;-)

[unless you sent money to have a pic and some words about yourself on the net]

Unfortunately one of the side effects of this type of gathering is that sometimes we say things that face to face we might not.

Of course if we really were at the bar, beer could, in fact, make it much worse ;-)

Peter

Oh...... so i should go put my beer back in the fridge now, and be drinking it while Im typing??? ;-)))

The biggest problem with computers is you cant hear the people laugh when they are saying it, or see the tongue poking out the side of the cheek ;-)

LOL...

I had a mate once that participated in long distance Radio contests. I saw him one day, Cornflakes in one hand, Beer in the other (And in with the corn flakes too) operating the morse code key with his foot!

Now I'd better go apply that rubber patch to my punctured ego....hmmm now where is that epoxy...

I'm back *hic*

I'mmm ashking youh ohpinion ohn where the manufasherers meahsure *hic* theer grouhnd cleahrance from. Duh. Nuffing to do with th acshual clearance.

Thanks for sahying I'm *hic* ahed in this bahr rhoom conversashun.

Also we all no that evry suspenshun has its place. Yhu dohnt c independent spruhng roc crawlers however yhu also don't see live axel *hic hic* hi speed ralle cars or beach racers.

I hav bofe. IFS and solid rear ;-) I preferr indapendunt for 99% of the time. That's *hic*wehy I have it.

C u nehxt pub.

Abshtivi..absotyu..abshotu...

Wht he said...

Are you seriously trying to tell us that this mate of yours, who works for the RACQ (so should have some idea about motor vehicles), drove his vehicle out of a servicing yard without noticing that one side of his car suddenly had a 5 inch suspension lift???????????

C'mon pull the ither one!

Firstly .

1. Not a mate of mine.
2. Was not from servicing yard but dealership.
3. One side was wound up as is normal to fit the A/C kit but it was not wound down again.
4. do you eat " chump bars " ?

13mm I could believe but 13cm?

would stand out from 20metres away.

Gee. Touchy aren't we!

In response to your points:

Not a Mate - not that that really matters

I thought most Dealerships also do servicing as well and fit parts in their servicing yards - unless you want to tell us that they fitted this stuff on the showroom floor!

Is it normal to wind up the suspenion to fit Air Conditioning or does A/C Kit refer to something else?

What the hell is a Chump Bar????

As Andrew points out maybe you meant to say 13mm. Mistakes do happen.

Lastly - lighten up buddy! We are all here for a bit of entertainmment and informative chat.

Cheers
Muddy

LOL! in hock - you have given me some big laughs. FREE!

Yes,
if I didnt know better I would say you and he were related..... LOLOLOL

Muddy I did mean 13mm.

This particular yard fits a/c , bullbars and towbars at a separate location to the service centre by unqualified personell.

From what I have seen, the problem is from bottoming out, and this is why I have seen and heard of 3 times as many broken ones with standard T bars than aftermarket ones, and all the broken/cracked ones I know of have had extra acc fitted up front, [winch / bar/ 2 batteries]

It would seem those who have the front T bars adjusted, rather than do the right thing, and fit T bars to carry the load correctly, are having the trouble mostly.

GO_OFFROAD

Have to agree with you.
Obviously not the last time we will hear discussion on this subject.
I guess Toyota will have to chew on this for a while untill the reality sets in.

Regards

I have seen the fix, and I do not think drilling more holes, and bolting on a bracket is the ultimate fix, and if I owned one, i would be welding a re enforcment around the end of the A arm, joining and re enforcing the 2 sections, and perhaps fitting the ARB ones as well.

But If I owned one, i would toss the T bars and fit coil overs to the front as well.

will keep monitoring mine for a bit longer and see what happens
as for coil overs i havent forgotten them but not ready just yet

Though you are correct to a certain degree, suspension, and tyres especially, are a compromise, and if you are operating within the gvm of the vehicle, there is no way standard suspension will cope, and will in fact create more damage from stress on diff hosuings hitting bump stops all the time, and the shock load that goes with that, when using a 4wd at or near GVM, compared to having it drive nicely when you run around the block for a test drive empty.

Yes. It is very hard to know (And we may never) what exactly is causing the failures.

If they are failing do to hitting bump stops etc, then I would have thought that the rate of failure would be lower in modified vehicles. If the failures are only or mainly in modified vehicles it is reasonable to assume that the mods contribute.

On the other hand if it is simply a case of when it is going to fail rather than if, then I would expect Toyota to fix it regardless and if enough pressure can be put to Toyota then eventually they will cave.

This does of course apply equally to all Manufacturers. Their initial response is often to deny any endemic weakness/fault.

I have an NM paj, and I believe there is a design flaw in the power steering pump. Mitsu don't. But they have replaced it twice under warranty.

Peter

Lyle,
if you get down of your innuendo high horse for 5 minutes,
Now, you may also recall if you search this forum, I let everyone know as soon as I heard about the issue, and this was when I started the datatbase.

Now, since I mentioned the issue here, I also had some people check thier vehicles, or report it to people who did, and my information on the ones I know about is correct and not innuendo or heresay.

Perhaps if you had gone about it a different way, you may of got better answers than the mags or Toyota gave you.......

Lyle/Pat

How are you defining "standard"?
If you mean a completely stock standard vehicle as it left its Yota birthplace then you may be right.

However, I think GO OFFROAD is referring to vehicles with standard height, original component, front suspension but have had extras like steel bullbars fitted.

If its the second definition then I have personally checked 2 vehicles (both TDs with steel ARB bars) that had just returned from extensive (10,000km plus) outback trips and both had definate signs of fatigue cracking.

Well Pat, one already has replied, after I emailed him about this thread, who checked it first hand, on 2 vehicles, which werent his, making his "heresay" under your classification as well, and you replied to him as well........

For the database, this person rang me after they looked at them, and we have logged km travelled, model, build date, torsion bar type, were they adjuted, engine type, wheel size, shock type for each vehicle I know of thats broken.

How much more comprehensive would you like it, and with what you have got from elsewhere, seems your saying it isnt happening, if no one has seen one?

Now if you read my post again, you will see it isnt if the vehicle has aftermarket accessories, but if it has aftermarket torsion bars fitted, or the standard torsion bars have been adjusted.

and this info comes straight from the toyota bullutin, but I cant show you that, [the local dealer wouldnt like it] so i guess that must be heresay and innuendo as well.........

So you label my posts as heresay and innuendo, and Im being derogatory in my response, which gives way more information that any of your ramblings expecting info from the mags or toyota.......

Perhaps you get treated as you act......

Well, I know I dont tolerate d*%#heads well, and I make no apologies for that, if you dont wish to be treated like Richard Cranium, dont act like him,..... simple.

Just goe's to show how little you actually know, that you have to answer your own questions, to attempt to make it seem like you do know......

Not hard to tell you own an IFS vehcile, and are having trouble accepting there may be a problem.

Serious???...... really??,........ like I said, it just shows how little you actually know, and regardless of what you said about being "out of here" in your last post, I new you wouldnt be able to live up to your word, and I could drag you back.....

Now go away, your so predictable, its not fun any more......