A good way to charge batteries.

Submitted: Monday, Dec 06, 2004 at 13:25
ThreadID: 18360 Views:3861 Replies:8 FollowUps:4
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Hello all,
I have been reading all these messages about charging batteries with solar panels, but what I have found works really well is a switchmode regulated power supply of about 40 amps capacity. When this is plugged into a generator of 700 watts, it putts out full current (40 A). The acceptance rate of a deep cycle battery depends on the voltage. At 14.5 volts, which is what I charge at, the current on a nearly empty deep cycle battery can be 30-40 amps. This heats it up, but as long as it stays cool enough to touch, its no prob.
So to charge a deep cycle battery, I leave it at 14.5 and slowly the current will drop off, until it effectively stops < 0.5 A.
So the charge might go a little like this
1st hour 25 A
2nd hour 15 A
3rd hour 10 A
4th hour 5A
5th hour 2 A
But you get the point. What I am trying to show is that in the first two hours you can put in about 40A. So really, you only need a gennie running two hours a day, if youre only using a 12 V fridge. A car alternator idleing will not charge at this rate, as they are rated at about engine 2000 rpm. This is cruising speed on highway revs.
So what I do, on the occasions where a friend brings a fridge along, is maintain his car with my charging equipment.
A generator from bunnings is about $100 and a switchmode 40A power supply is $350 or so. I got mine much cheaper. But the point is that this costs much less then solar panels, and has many other uses, like running an electric chainsaw, and charging batteries all around the home etc. And is a lot quicker, but noisier...

By the way, you should occasionally balance the cells in a deep cycle by charging the battery up at 14.5 V till current stops, and then turn up the power supply to 15.5 V to get the sulphuric acid really boiling and disassociating hydrogen gas. This will equilise the specific gravity of the sulphuric acid. This takes about 1-2 hours, and then your battery will hold charge significantly longer. Ie. it will be closer to advertised capacity ie. 70 Ah

Also you have to make sure that you never leave a partially discharged lead acid battery sit even for a few days as you will get lead sulphate crystallising on the lead plates, and lose battery capacity. So if you run lights at night, ideally the battery should be put on charge before going to sleep. Not always possible though...

Cheers
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Reply By: Flash - Monday, Dec 06, 2004 at 14:49

Monday, Dec 06, 2004 at 14:49
Yes,
ANY good AC charger is way better than the 12v output most generators have.
Also, with Honda and Yamaha inverters with the "ecothrottle" feature, they'll slow down almost to idle for most charging whereas using the built in 12v charging facility they run flat out- for only a slow charge.
I had a "neighbour" doing that (ie: a Honda-flat out) in a national park recently and was not impressed.
At the same time we were charging batteries with a Yamaha inverter generator in a sound proof box running a three stage charger - and you couldn't hear it 10m away.
(It was overcast so very little solar available.)
AnswerID: 87459

Reply By: pjchris - Monday, Dec 06, 2004 at 15:17

Monday, Dec 06, 2004 at 15:17
Just be aware that 'boiling' the acid in a Sealed (maintainence free) battery is an absolut no-no.

If the battery vents it will lose electrolyte and you can't put any back in.

Peter

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AnswerID: 87464

Reply By: Member -Dodger - Monday, Dec 06, 2004 at 17:53

Monday, Dec 06, 2004 at 17:53
Sounds like you hate a quiet camp.
I used to have a handle on life, but it broke.

Cheers Dodg.

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AnswerID: 87493

Reply By: Member - Jimbo (VIC) - Monday, Dec 06, 2004 at 19:38

Monday, Dec 06, 2004 at 19:38
Shagger,

Sounds like another good alternative, but I've found idling the motor puts in about 14.1 volts, not sure of the amps, but doing so 3 or 4 times a day keeps my AGM batt topped up (using a multimeter to check). I reckon it used about 7 litres total doing this for 4 days (quite cost effective compared with buying a gennie and charger). And my car on the idle is a lot more quiet than a 2 stroke genny. Those little 2 stroke jobs use about 4 litres for 6 hours running. I reckon my car uses less on the idle.

I'm no expert and keep experimenting before outlaying around $800 on a solar panel and regulator. Although I think this will be the way I go eventually. Just have to convince the GLW.

Cheers,

Jim.
AnswerID: 87506

Follow Up By: Flash - Monday, Dec 06, 2004 at 21:50

Monday, Dec 06, 2004 at 21:50
The enviroment..... and your camping neighbours... will LOVE you when you go solar.
It really is the only option... except when it's raining!

There is nothing more certain to upset people, than to be out in the sticks, smelling (and hearing) someone else's internal combustion engine (of whatever variety) charging their batteries.
Cheers
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FollowupID: 346303

Reply By: Topcat (WA) - Monday, Dec 06, 2004 at 22:21

Monday, Dec 06, 2004 at 22:21
Hi Snaggy, while your charging method may be quick you want to take into consideration (especially with deep cycle batteries) that quick charging methods will shorten the life of the battery. Fast recharging rates greater than C/4 (amphour capacity/hours) can cause premature failure. Deep cycle batteries should be recharged slowly at the manufacturers recommended voltage and usually if you want to increase the life of the battery never discharge more than 50%. Those charge current rates to me indicate that your battery is discharged more than 50%. if the capacity is 100 amps. Cheers.
AnswerID: 87537

Follow Up By: shaggy - Tuesday, Dec 07, 2004 at 12:56

Tuesday, Dec 07, 2004 at 12:56
I understand the quick charging you talk about, but consider this. 100/4 = 25 A. That is not greater then C/4, and the condition that makes batteries fail is heat build up, not just a figure of C/4. In laboratories, we charge batteries at C/1 and have not had premature failures, as long as it is charged at room temperature, not an under bonnet temperature. Anyway, a modern alternator can easily punch out 100 A. Does that mean that it is exceeding safe charging current? No, because it controls current output through the voltage regulator, the same way that I manually do with the DC power supply.
Regarding discharge status, if I need the energy, I am not worried about going below 50% capacity, in fact I have gone down to 20% regularly, and havent had a battery fail in under 4-5 years. The biggest killer of lead acid batteries is undercharging, low acid, followed by vibration.
cheers
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FollowupID: 346384

Follow Up By: pjchris - Tuesday, Dec 07, 2004 at 14:07

Tuesday, Dec 07, 2004 at 14:07
Under the bonnet of a car the battery rarely discharges more than 10% from its normal charge level. So the charge current is low.
Alternators also are usually incapable of charging a battery to much more than 80% of capacity either.

Peter

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Reply By: David Au - Monday, Dec 06, 2004 at 22:37

Monday, Dec 06, 2004 at 22:37
Shaggy your post is full of dangerous misinformation, I will not even start to explain all. I would highly recommend people totally ignore any information in your post.
AnswerID: 87541

Follow Up By: shaggy - Tuesday, Dec 07, 2004 at 12:48

Tuesday, Dec 07, 2004 at 12:48
What makes you say that it is misinformation? Are you trying to be all mysterious and sound intelligent? When you say something like "I would recommend...", then you should qualify that statement by saying why you believe that my statement is misinformed and dangerous?
Perhaps it is you who is misinformed...
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FollowupID: 346382

Reply By: porl - Tuesday, Dec 07, 2004 at 13:17

Tuesday, Dec 07, 2004 at 13:17
I don't really have nothing to add just putting this post up mainly so i can get the replies. All I can add is that I emailed Optima direct for correct charging of my yellow top and is it a few years old and i have long lost the instructioins - and for their AGM's they say never charge over 15.00v, but i do know that the AC commercial battery charger i was looking at had 3 different voltage settings for Gel Cell, SLA or liquid electrolyte batteries, didn't specify the voltage rates in the promotional materials though.
AnswerID: 87605

Reply By: Mad Dog (Victoria) - Tuesday, Dec 07, 2004 at 13:45

Tuesday, Dec 07, 2004 at 13:45
I've been using a 20 amp variable voltage power supply for charging batteries for some time. I built the device many years ago and it sat in the shed doing nothing for a long time until I put it into service as a charger. Never had a problem and when I want to equalise I just crank the voltage up a bit.
AnswerID: 87608

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