Poor Bugger.
Submitted: Monday, Dec 20, 2004 at 12:35
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Member - Jeff M (WA)
I had a call from some mates of
mine on Saturday morning, one with a Feroza (which is an awsome little car) and one with a shotry Pajero V6. They were having some fun on some sands tracks etc when the 1 month on Clutch that was replaced by a Mitsubishi dealer let go in the Paj. On a narrow sandy/boggy track in between
two hills...... The Frozy wasn't going to get him out so I went along to help. Eventually got hime out (it's amazing how hard it is to snatch a 4by up a boggy sand
hill when they've got no go at all!!). Changed from the snatch to the tow rope when we got to the tar and towed him home.
Question is why would a brand new clutch just let go? He reckons he had been gentle to it (as he should) for the first few weeks and wasn't even using it when it failed, he said he was just driving down the track in gear and it just gave out. When I was hooking the snatch up (bout an hour after it happened) I could still smell burnt clutch smell. Is he going to have a hard time getting the Dealer to repair it under warranty?
Reply By: Truckster (Vic) - Monday, Dec 20, 2004 at 12:48
Monday, Dec 20, 2004 at 12:48
Is he going to have a hard time getting the Dealer to repair it under warranty?
You really need to ask? They will screw him lots
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Follow Up By: Member - Jeff M (WA) - Monday, Dec 20, 2004 at 12:53
Monday, Dec 20, 2004 at 12:53
LOL, Truckster you've positive way of looking at life is so refreshing!! LOL
However, I agree with you on this one Truckster, I think they have the metal rod ready and waiting in the service department so that as soon as he walks in they can shove it up him!
I've told him to give the car a good clean inside and out, make sure there is as little sand on the chasis rails etc as possible just so that they don't have the option of saying "oh
well, you've been abusing it blah blah yada yada".
But I don't understand why it would have just gone like that, if someone knows exactly what has happened or has some idea, then we can take it to them and say it blew because you bstrds didn't do this right etc.
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Monday, Dec 20, 2004 at 13:58
Monday, Dec 20, 2004 at 13:58
Whatever he does, DONT say he was offroad when it happened to have .000000000000000001% chance of gettin warranty.
Did they do clutch and pressure plate? or not? maybe that could have been cause? Maybe it just wasnt done right.. Dave Z from Melb list had his car serviced, and the apprentice working on it, left one of them 'blades' that you clean gaskets etc off with INSIDE the airbox.. it went thru the turbo, destroying it. Took him 6mths to get it fixed to his satisfaction. he had to have it professionally disected, and thats when they found parts of the blade in there....
I agree with you, they should last more than 1000klms.
Was it slipping at all? Any signs of issues that maybe he just didnt take notice of?
Take KY with him to the dealer...
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Follow Up By: Nudenut - Monday, Dec 20, 2004 at 14:31
Monday, Dec 20, 2004 at 14:31
Truckster
?? excuse me but isnt this an offroad vehicle that just had its clutch fixed....? then why does it make a differnce of on or off as to warranty obligations?
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Follow Up By: Member - Jeff M (WA) - Monday, Dec 20, 2004 at 14:36
Monday, Dec 20, 2004 at 14:36
Because somewhere in the terms and conditions that he would have had to have signed in order to collect his vehicle they would have stated that "fair wear and tear" and "abuse" are not covered by warranty, they will then say that he was bogged and burned his clutch out which would come under one or both of those terms.
I have also seen special disclaimers not covering clutches in 4wd vehicles in some warranty forms. (not neccessarily mitsubishi's though).
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Follow Up By: Member - Davoe (WA) - Monday, Dec 20, 2004 at 14:57
Monday, Dec 20, 2004 at 14:57
Truckster, Toyota fix under warranty vehicles used in mining and exploration neither which come under anyones definition of fair wear and tear. we had a cracked diff housing fixed this year on a 2001 cruiser under warranty despite the vehicle being extensivly modified for severe off road use and it coming in every 3 weeks for abuse related repairs
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Follow Up By: Nudenut - Monday, Dec 20, 2004 at 14:59
Monday, Dec 20, 2004 at 14:59
granted...fair wear n tear does not include abuse as what may eventuate when being bogged...
would a clutch would always show signs of being burnt out?
they can also burn out for other reasons? on or off road?
if burnt out, i would certainly suppress telling them i had been bogged...but being on or off road should not be an issue?
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Follow Up By: Member - Jeff M (WA) - Monday, Dec 20, 2004 at 15:04
Monday, Dec 20, 2004 at 15:04
Yeah but he wasn't bogged, he was just driving along. IMO I think it must have been incorrectly adjusted or similar and been slipping to wear out that quickly. But then you'd think if it were your car you'd notice the slipping and the smell it would make.... Who knows....
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Tuesday, Dec 21, 2004 at 10:07
Tuesday, Dec 21, 2004 at 10:07
Nudy..
Dont give the dealer ANY excuse for not warranting it.. Tell them nothing. You were driving to Hardware house (dont say the wife was driving either :P) and it went fart as you changed back a gear. Not taking off from lights as they will say you were slipping it.. just driving along
- spend 2 hours at shiners getting ANY sand out/off of the car!!!
ALthough something doesnt sound right with the whole thing.. Me thinks it must have been slipping, and he didnt stop.
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Follow Up By: Shaker - Tuesday, Dec 21, 2004 at 12:18
Tuesday, Dec 21, 2004 at 12:18
Funny how people rubbish car dealers & repairers about being tough with their warranty decisions ........ Yet, have no qualms about concealing the truth, telling outright lies & doctoring up the evidence of possible misuse.
Hmmm.... I wonder why they are so tough????
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Follow Up By: Member - Jeff M (WA) - Tuesday, Dec 21, 2004 at 14:43
Tuesday, Dec 21, 2004 at 14:43
Shaker he's done nothing wrong to "cover up". It would be great if he could just take it in without a worry in the world and have them fix it under warranty as they bloody
well should, however from experience the world does not work this way so to cover his bases I recommended he clean it.
If the dealer's had a better attitude in the first place he wouldn't have to go to those extremes.
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Follow Up By: Shaker - Tuesday, Dec 21, 2004 at 23:21
Tuesday, Dec 21, 2004 at 23:21
Jeff, I certainly didn't mean to suggest that he had done anything ... I was referring to the advice given here, to do exactly that.
Obviously these people have never been in the business of dealing with people. Most dealers are 100% honest as are most customers, but the sort of advice given here is why claims are so closely scrutinised. Like people that smash their vehicle, hide it, insure it & then claim at a later date. Guess who pays for that?
I was in the motor trade for 17 years & never saw a genuine warranty claim refused, either for the vehicle or for work done. Most dealers are insured for 'work done over' costs.
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Wednesday, Dec 22, 2004 at 12:34
Wednesday, Dec 22, 2004 at 12:34
Shaker, I have been on the bad end of the stick more than once with your "HONEST DEALERS" while I was working for another dealer in another area. Honest dealers are few and far between when you read the threads on this board.
In my case, it wasnt cars but bikes. Bought one off the importer, 22 warranty claims in 18 mths.. They had it more than I did... They never got it to run right or to handle.. no matter what they replaced, or refused to replace (We knew what the issue was but it was going to cost them thousands)
Things that happened just riding along 100% genuine, and they claimed all sorts of crap on nearly everything...
So my advice is never give them .0000000000000000000000000001% of ammo that could possibly lead to screwing you.. Do you think that most dealers say,
"oh hes a nice fellow, lets cost ourself 20 hours labour just to feel warm and fuzzy"?
Like the thread about 8-12 mths back some chick with a 3.0 GU that blew up for the 3rd or 4th time, Nissan dealer waved bye bye to her..
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Follow Up By: Shaker - Wednesday, Dec 22, 2004 at 17:02
Wednesday, Dec 22, 2004 at 17:02
I am sorry to hear that you had a bad experience Truckster, but I don't think thet you tar all the dealers & manufacturers with the same brush.
I must admit that I am interested in your comment 'bought it off the importer', so there was actually no dealer involved?
It sounds a bit like buying a DVD player out the back of the pub!
I am sure that we do hear of bad experiences here on the
forum, it is usually only horror stories that end up in print.
It would be a very busy
forum if everybody posted each & every time they were satisfied with their vehicle/goods & or after sales service.
The other thing to remember, which may have applied in your case, is that there are always several ways to take further action.
Maybe we need the American style 'Lemon Laws' ..... 3 attempts to fix, then replacement!
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Follow Up By: dingbat - Wednesday, Dec 22, 2004 at 17:35
Wednesday, Dec 22, 2004 at 17:35
Now I remember why I like auto's, but I hope it gets fixed.
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Follow Up By: Nudenut - Wednesday, Dec 22, 2004 at 19:23
Wednesday, Dec 22, 2004 at 19:23
dingbat....i'm with you on that one...these people who still want to live in the dark ages and chnage gears ...phew!
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Follow Up By: Member - Davoe (WA) - Wednesday, Dec 22, 2004 at 19:26
Wednesday, Dec 22, 2004 at 19:26
unfortunately Nudenut and pete the greatest 4by machine around comes in manuel only - landcruiser ute
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Wednesday, Dec 22, 2004 at 21:47
Wednesday, Dec 22, 2004 at 21:47
"I must admit that I am interested in your comment 'bought it off the importer', so there was actually no dealer involved?"
Na Frasers are the Importers into Aussie, and also are a retail business in Sitney.
"Maybe we need the American style 'Lemon Laws' ..... 3 attempts to fix, then replacement"
The manufacturers would go broke with current QC levels.
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Follow Up By: Nudenut - Wednesday, Dec 22, 2004 at 22:16
Wednesday, Dec 22, 2004 at 22:16
Davoe....think outside the square...in your case old technology
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Reply By: Member - Davoe (WA) - Monday, Dec 20, 2004 at 12:54
Monday, Dec 20, 2004 at 12:54
ahh one of lifes great mysteries. We had our first 78 series ute at work that one of the geos were driving and I think it wasnt even 2 weeks old and the clutch went. I personally have given the clutch on tojos as much as I possible could without one going (fixed under warranty like it should)
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Reply By: Member - Hugh (WA) - Monday, Dec 20, 2004 at 15:39
Monday, Dec 20, 2004 at 15:39
Hi Jeff,
I feel for your friend and also the fun (not) that the recovery must have been.
Some factors that may contribute to premature clutch failure (post replacement):
1) Was pressure plate changed or just clutch disc? If just clutch then pre-load from pressure plate may have been below spec therefore being easier to slip. Normally clutch kit includes clutch, pressure plate and thrust bearing.
2) Were mating metal surfaces (flywheel & pressure plate) machined or at least stoned to ensure flatness and remove surface glazing, etc from previous clutch? If the surfaces are not flat then there is much less surface area to transmit torque and slippage is likely. If the surfaces are glazed then will not generate friction necssary to transmit torque and slippage is likely.
You might get away with the above for normal (street) driving but off road or towing
places the clutch under much more severe conditions.
I guess these are questions for the dealer. Now you mighn't get a straight response but if you ask then at least you appear knowledgable and less likely to be fobbed off. I wouldn't mention that he was out in the dunes when it happened. Frankly it shouldn't have mattered but why give the dealer something to throw back in your face.
Regards,
Hugh
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Follow Up By: Member - Jeff M (WA) - Monday, Dec 20, 2004 at 15:53
Monday, Dec 20, 2004 at 15:53
Thank you Hugh. All info is helpful and he does do a bit of towing for work so you might be on the right track there!
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Reply By: D-Jack - Monday, Dec 20, 2004 at 15:45
Monday, Dec 20, 2004 at 15:45
Here's a quote from my repairer to the insurance company. Possiblly a similar condition:
" Clutch thrust bearing seems to have lost clamping action into the clutch cover spring fingers causing excessive travel at clutch fork. When clutch pedal is pushed to full travel, the slave cylinder push rod has been hitting on the clutch cover to the extent that it has bent and fallen into the bell housing resulting in no clutch operation."
Nice of them to say, but to paraphrase in the words of the mechanic:
"You've knackered your clutch by getting too much water and sandy S*?T into the clutch because of crazy driving."
May not be the same thing, but I wanted to tell the story anyway
D-Jack
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Follow Up By: Member - Jeff M (WA) - Monday, Dec 20, 2004 at 15:58
Monday, Dec 20, 2004 at 15:58
Fair enough, probally less than 10% of his driving is off road and he has only been in the dunes since the new clutch, there ain't much water that can get in there and I dion't know how much sand you can get tin the bell housing in that amount of off road work, however in saying that he is a pretty mad bastard! LOL
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Reply By: Member Eric - Monday, Dec 20, 2004 at 16:36
Monday, Dec 20, 2004 at 16:36
Sand driving killed it , When you get a new clutch , it takes some time to bed in , this is the only way its going to get full grip . If you have a new clutch and you are pushing hard like sand , it will cook in no time . You wont have a issue with warranty , due to it only been in for such a short time .
Also there are other factors , like pressure plate let go , or adjustments were incorect and wouldnt release properly .
My money is on number 1
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Tuesday, Dec 21, 2004 at 10:04
Tuesday, Dec 21, 2004 at 10:04
My $ is on no warranty due to sand driving.
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