LPG and Diesel

Submitted: Monday, Dec 20, 2004 at 16:18

ThreadID: 18725 Views:4351 Replies:8 FollowUps:7

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Cabbage

While I don't wish to rain on anybodys parade or cause trouble I would suggest thta you look at Australian Standards AS/NZ 1425 before you attempt this type of modification.
LPG is a very useful commodity to all of us but it can also be very dangerous if not handled correctly.
Yeh,I know ,"Ive been usin it for years ,what would you know?"
There was a company here fitting gas onto 4x4,s for a while , but had to close down.
Don't get me wrong,it can work quite well but , it needs a bit more knowledge than the average person has.
Some facts about LPG & propane:
BBQ gas is normally propane
Autogas is usually a 50/50 mix of propane and butane
Autogas CANNOT be used in BBQ's etc
The expansion coefficient of these gases is about 270:1
LPG or its various components is heavier than air
By all means have a look at this or other kits that are available but unless you have the necessary knowledge and abilities don't mess with it.
If you still want to mess, get out in the middle of a paddock somewhere so no one else gets hurt.
If you need some technical info about gas or gas systems email either of these

gastrain@bigpond.net.au
cabbage@froggy.com.au

Anyway, Have a good christmas and a better new year.

Leave nothing but footprints & take nothing but photos

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Reply By: Cabbage - Monday, Dec 20, 2004 at 17:21

Monday, Dec 20, 2004 at 17:21

Sorry forgot to post the references

http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/registration/downloads/vib04.pdf#search='australian+standards+AS1425'

http://www.thelaw.tas.gov.au/tocview/index.w3p;cond=;doc_id=+163+1998+AT@EN+20041128000000;histon=;prompt=;rec=-1;term=

http://www.nrm.qld.gov.au/mines/petroleum/pdf/licence_notes.pdf

AnswerID: 89609

Follow Up By: Member - Camper (SA) - Monday, Dec 20, 2004 at 18:45

Monday, Dec 20, 2004 at 18:45

So, Cabbage,
when I go to my servo and get my 4.5lkg gas bottle filled which I use for
the webber and the CT what do I get for my money– propane or LPG. Or are they the same? Surely it is not butane??
Thanks,
Camper

FollowupID: 348445

Follow Up By: Member - Blue (VIC) - Monday, Dec 20, 2004 at 19:09

Monday, Dec 20, 2004 at 19:09

G'day Cabbage,
you say auto gas can't be used in bbq's... Been doing it for years. A mate had an adapter made up so he can fill 2x50 odd kilo household bottles in the tray of his ute. Keeps them at his holiday shack and runs the fridge, stove, hot water and bbq off it, 40-50c/litre sure beats the $2+/kilo for bbq gas.
My questions are: Are we wrong and have just been lucky not to blow ourselves up over the last 8 years? Or are the gas suppliers just telling us we will blow ourselves up so we pay the extra margin for bbq gas?

FollowupID: 348448

Follow Up By: theshadows - Monday, Dec 20, 2004 at 19:53

Monday, Dec 20, 2004 at 19:53

Ohh dear.

Its the filling thats the problem. I hope you dont injure yourself. PS havent you seen the sticker on the pumps that say dont fill bottles up from the servo pumps? If you fill up from your own tank its not against the law. However if you modify the LPG system you must get it certifed.

Secondly the LPG liquid is not quailty controlled for all impurites.There are big proplems with carcisogens released after ignitions.

ther reason butane is so expensive is it filtered and quality control checked for human consumption.

shadow

FollowupID: 348453

Follow Up By: Member - Blue (VIC) - Monday, Dec 20, 2004 at 21:49

Monday, Dec 20, 2004 at 21:49

Evening Mr Shadow, at least I now know I'll probably die of cancer... I don't do any of the filling and it's been about 7 years since I had an LPG car but I don't recall ever seeing the sticker. We actually got the idea from when we worked for the railways, the fitters used to fire the Friday bbq from a forklift gas bottle.
Blue

FollowupID: 348468

Reply By: Member Eric - Monday, Dec 20, 2004 at 18:30

Monday, Dec 20, 2004 at 18:30

i have been offered a kit for $1500 , suppose to come with diffrent jets and instructions on set up . Still a bit iffi.

AnswerID: 89622

Reply By: Cabbage - Monday, Dec 20, 2004 at 20:45

Monday, Dec 20, 2004 at 20:45

OK we'll have a bit of a look here

Camper.
LPG = Liquified Petroleum Gas. Propane is just one of the various gases that come under this heading.
When you get your BBQ bottle filled it is usually out of a stand alone storage tank.
These are normally 98.3% propane.
Butane is added to propane to make what is called autogas.

Blue.
Not really a good idea to do this but if you are refilling in a country town you will more than likely get propane as the companies don't like sending two trucks out , one auto and the other propane. If you compare propane and butane you will find that butane has a higher calorific value than propane but it is a slightly heavier gas and needs different jet sizes much the same way as natural gas does.
It will work but the chances of blowback are increased quite a lot and can cause rather a large bang.

Eric.
Can you email me direct at cabbage@froggy.com.au

While we have been able to get away with quite a few things this stuff is not DIY friendly, or as I usually put it DYI [do yourself injuries].A while back a bloke in Ipswich got very serious burns trying to fill a gas container in his car. Static electricity was probably the cause of this. That's why they have those signs about putting fuel containers on the ground before you fill them

AnswerID: 89636

Follow Up By: Member - David C (QLD) - Tuesday, Dec 21, 2004 at 09:58

Tuesday, Dec 21, 2004 at 09:58

Might I add that any vehicle installation needs to be done by a licenced gas fitter. There is a law on this as well.

FollowupID: 348512

Reply By: Cabbage - Monday, Dec 20, 2004 at 20:46

Monday, Dec 20, 2004 at 20:46

AnswerID: 89637

Reply By: Rosco - Bris. - Monday, Dec 20, 2004 at 20:48

Monday, Dec 20, 2004 at 20:48

Perhaps I've missed something here. But why the inclusion of diesels in the topic.

Diesels use compressed natural gas as an alternative fuel source.

AnswerID: 89638

Follow Up By: Cabbage - Monday, Dec 20, 2004 at 20:54

Monday, Dec 20, 2004 at 20:54

G'Day Rosco, if you look at post 18664 you will understand.
LPG,methane from coalfields, also is used for alternative fuel.

FollowupID: 348457

Follow Up By: Rosco - Bris. - Monday, Dec 20, 2004 at 21:35

Monday, Dec 20, 2004 at 21:35

Now I see where you're coming from cobber.

I did hear about it recently when speaking to a mate who's involved in trucking and earthmoving. Certainly sounds ineresting, but as was asked ... apart from the safety issues, I also wonder about engine longevity. Having said that I'm too much of a fraidy cat to fit a DTronic to the Fender whilst it's still in warranty .. so there ya go.

Cheers

FollowupID: 348466

Reply By: Member - Rob J (WA) - Monday, Dec 20, 2004 at 22:11

Monday, Dec 20, 2004 at 22:11

Has Auto Gas changed since the 80's?
We used to buy our auto gas for our Taxi from Kleenheat Gas in Wangara a Northern suburb of Perth, quite often before we filled the car , we had to take the bottle adapter off the handpiece. This was before the bowsers came into use and we filled directly from the tank out the back.

AnswerID: 89655

Reply By: Kiwi Ray - Tuesday, Dec 21, 2004 at 13:20

Tuesday, Dec 21, 2004 at 13:20

Hi Folks
The gas is not the problem it is tha tanks that create the bigest problem
Auto gas LPG tanks are a liquid withdrawal.
Caravan / BBQ tanks are a vapour withdrawal
Do Not mix the two up

AnswerID: 89746

Reply By: D-Jack - Tuesday, Dec 21, 2004 at 15:53

Tuesday, Dec 21, 2004 at 15:53

I once saw a VH commodore wagon on fire in North Adelaide. The Firies were drenching it in water, and suggenly whoosh. The LPG cap blew off and shot a flame across the other side of the road for a few seconds, a tree on the other side of the road caught on fire and they had to get another appliance in to deal with that.

Not really anything to do with this topic, but the moral of this story is if your LPG fitted car is on fire, don't stand near the filler cap.

AnswerID: 89756