kipor generators - heard of them?
Submitted: Monday, Dec 27, 2004 at 01:04
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motherhen
I know i'm a wimp to want to use the air conditioner in the caravan, but to do so we need a good generator. I found Kipor generators which i had previously never heard of during my research. Anyone had experience running a caravan air conditioner from a genny?
Reply By: Willem - Monday, Dec 27, 2004 at 17:06
Monday, Dec 27, 2004 at 17:06
Never heard of them. I would go for a
well lnown brfand name for warranty and backup service. You are probably going to need a 5KVA genset to run any decent aircon in the van
AnswerID:
90469
Follow Up By: motherhen - Monday, Dec 27, 2004 at 17:15
Monday, Dec 27, 2004 at 17:15
Thanks Willem. We are going for the Honda. Most of the Bushtracker people use the EU20i - sounds a bit small for our air con, so are debating getting two EU20is run in tandem (i can lift them, but they are pull start), or the bigger EU30i, which has electronic start, but is too big for me to lift (needs two us us)! We'll get away eventually, but probably won't get as far as SA - just the south coast of WA. Motherhen
FollowupID:
349095
Follow Up By: Powerlite - Wednesday, Jan 05, 2005 at 10:05
Wednesday, Jan 05, 2005 at 10:05
To clarify motherhen’s enquiry, Kipor Power Inverter Generating Sets are distributed and serviced by Powerlite Generators. Currently there is only 2 manufacturers offering a comprehensive range of genuine inverter generators with Kipor offering the largest range of silenced inverter sets ranging from 1 to 6 kW. Kipor is the only manufacturer offering a silenced suitcase range which includes 1000, 2000 and 3000 models. The cost of paralleling 2 x EU10 Honda’s is approximately 50% dearer than purchasing one Kipor KGE3000Ti set. 2 x EU20 Honda’s would be double the 3000 Kipor price.
Kipor KGE3000Ti specifications: length 564mm width 317mm height 453mm weight dry 26 kgs wet (fueled and oiled) 31.5 kgs. As an option you can also get a collapsible handle with trolley
wheels to aid mobility. Value for money, Kipor can’t be beaten. For further details visit www.powerlite.com.au
FollowupID:
349949
Follow Up By: pjchris - Wednesday, Jan 05, 2005 at 10:51
Wednesday, Jan 05, 2005 at 10:51
Actually two Eu20i's is 70% more expensive than one Kipor 3000 but you actually can't directly compare them as two Eu20's produce 4KVa not the 3KVa of the Kipor.
Having said that the Kipor prices are very good.
Directly comparing the Kipor 1000 and the Honda Eu10i it appears that electrically they are all but identical. Physically the Honda is lighter and quieter.
Not much in it though...
If I was currently in the market I would definately consider the Kipor range.
Does anyone here actually own one? If so for how long? What is the reliability like?
Peter
FollowupID:
349960
Reply By: pjchris - Monday, Dec 27, 2004 at 17:44
Monday, Dec 27, 2004 at 17:44
How big is the Aircon?
The one we occasionally use in our van is a 1600W (running) split system that cools the van nicely.
I ran it from two EU10i's in tandem. A bit close to rating but they only stuttered when the compresser cut in, after that they ran fine.
Check the running rating of the Aircon, and the start up current if you can find it. Most units only draw the start up current for a fraction of a second and a decently designed Generator should cope.
Peter
AnswerID:
90476
Follow Up By: motherhen - Monday, Dec 27, 2004 at 18:00
Monday, Dec 27, 2004 at 18:00
It seems to be a 1.4 kw - it also has heater but don't need that today! It recommends 3.5 kw generator, but most of the Bushtracker caravanners use the EU20i. The generator sites quote what HP air cons they will run, but our air con brochure doesn't quote it in HP. How do we check the running rate of the air con? We had it going off the mains power yesterday. It took a while as the van was out in the sun and very hot, so we left it getting some exercise and came back and the van was heaps cooler. Thanks for your reply. Motherhen
FollowupID:
349098
Follow Up By: pjchris - Tuesday, Dec 28, 2004 at 11:24
Tuesday, Dec 28, 2004 at 11:24
The reason that most Aircons recommend a large generator has to do with the surge current required at start up.
For example, our home Aircon split system has a running power input of 2850W (2.85KW) or just under 12 Amps. However the start up current is 62 Amps.
So the start up current is what kills most generators, sometimes permanently.
The Honda units seem to have very good overload protection and as I said the unit I used on two EU10i's is a 1600W or 1.6kW unit and it ran fine.
Having said that the only sure way of knowing whether one or two EU20i units are needed for yours is to try it. When in doubt be guided by the dealer as if you buy one and it blows up I don't expect the warranty will cover it.
Peter
FollowupID:
349139
Follow Up By: Powerlite - Wednesday, Jan 05, 2005 at 10:07
Wednesday, Jan 05, 2005 at 10:07
To clarify motherhen’s enquiry, Kipor Power Inverter Generating Sets are distributed and serviced by Powerlite Generators. Currently there is only 2 manufacturers offering a comprehensive range of genuine inverter generators with Kipor offering the largest range of silenced inverter sets ranging from 1 to 6 kW. Kipor is the only manufacturer offering a silenced suitcase range which includes 1000, 2000 and 3000 models. The cost of paralleling 2 x EU10 Honda’s is approximately 50% dearer than purchasing one Kipor KGE3000Ti set. 2 x EU20 Honda’s would be double the 3000 Kipor price.
Kipor KGE3000Ti specifications: length 564mm width 317mm height 453mm weight dry 26 kgs wet (fueled and oiled) 31.5 kgs. As an option you can also get a collapsible handle with trolley
wheels to aid mobility. Value for money, Kipor can’t be beaten. For further details visit www.powerlite.com.au
FollowupID:
349950
Reply By: Bob Y. - Qld - Monday, Dec 27, 2004 at 21:25
Monday, Dec 27, 2004 at 21:25
Don't worry Mother, a lot of us like the aircons. I'll support Willem, and suggest you stay away from unknown brands of gensets. Try and get a reputable brand, for warranty and spares.
Your aircon may have a load figure, in amps, on info plate somewhere. This would be running load, and you multiply this by 3, to get start-up current. Problem with caravans is they absorb plenty of heat, more so than a building, so aircons need to work much harder. So you need a bigger genset. Willems suggestion of 5 KVA mightn't be too far off the mark, but they are heavy.
Motherhen, with the smaller gensets they can be working pretty hard, or constantly, just to keep the van cool. If the Eu20 can start your aircon, then it might be a good compromise, but suggest it would be working pretty hard, in daylight hours, on hot day.
We run 2 Hino/Stamford gensets, 40 KVA & 60 KVA, on the station, and with no aircons are going, we could run the whole station on 8 KVA. Once the weather gets hot(40 plus) the 40 KVA unit is too small!!!
Enjoy your trip, take care,
Hooroo...
AnswerID:
90492
Reply By: Mike Harding - Monday, Dec 27, 2004 at 21:50
Monday, Dec 27, 2004 at 21:50
Perhaps I have completely misunderstood the replies to this thread where people have talked about using two generating sets "in tandem"? But if by that you mean you parallel up the outputs of two (or more) AC generators then how do you cope with synchronisation problems?
Mike Harding
AnswerID:
90497
Follow Up By: motherhen - Monday, Dec 27, 2004 at 21:57
Monday, Dec 27, 2004 at 21:57
Yes Mike, i may have used the wrong word - it should be parallel. The Hondas come with a fitting (costs $315!) to link the two. We are still undecided which way to go - 1 or 2. Mike, do you have any bad experience running two? I appreciate getting all the help we can to decide - it is going to be a lot more expensive than i thought to do the job properly - just for a few days comfort!
FollowupID:
349115
Follow Up By: Mike Harding - Monday, Dec 27, 2004 at 22:52
Monday, Dec 27, 2004 at 22:52
If you wish to connect any two sources of AC power together in order to provide an increased supply they _must_ be synchronised - otherwise the two sine waves will not be in phase and will "fight" against one-another with probable damage to one or both gen sets. or at least frequent tripping of the breakers. I assume the $315 Honda "link" provides a means of doing this?
If the gens. are properly synchronised then all should be
well. I suspect you will need 3 or 4KW of power for the startup current of a decent air-con.
Mike Harding
FollowupID:
349122
Follow Up By: motherhen - Monday, Dec 27, 2004 at 23:04
Monday, Dec 27, 2004 at 23:04
Haven't seen it yet, but if they are charging $315 for a power cord with fittings, i'd hope they'd got it right. With all these public holidays, we can't get to the shops to see just yet. Motherhen
FollowupID:
349125
Follow Up By: pjchris - Tuesday, Dec 28, 2004 at 11:17
Tuesday, Dec 28, 2004 at 11:17
The Honda EU range come with a built in method of connecting two units together to double the output.
When linked with the Honad 'Special' cable you can only use the AC outlet on ONE generator but it will produce double the power output of a single Generator.
Note that the two gen sets being connected together must be identical, EU10i to EU10i etc.
I have connected two EU10i's together to run an 1800W microwave and a 1.6kW aircon. Obviously not at the same time.
Peter
FollowupID:
349137
Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) - Wednesday, Dec 29, 2004 at 08:13
Wednesday, Dec 29, 2004 at 08:13
Mike, Synch is only an issue for three phase parallel connections, single phase wouldnt be a drama, except if there were different output voltages and then there would be some circulating current which wouldnt be a good thing at all.
FollowupID:
349209
Follow Up By: Mike Harding - Wednesday, Dec 29, 2004 at 21:51
Wednesday, Dec 29, 2004 at 21:51
Bonz:
I'm afraid I cannot see, at all, why it would not be necessary to synchronise two single phase AC generators if you were going to parallel their outputs. If you failed to sync. them gen #1 might be at 90 degs on the positive cycle and gen #2 might be at 270 degs on the negative - result = a voltage difference of 680 volts and a lot of current causing the breakers to trip - at the least. Unless their output sine waves are synchronised they _will_ be at different voltages at any given point in time and you _will_ get circulating currents - this is the basic principle of amplitude modulation. Would you not agree?
Mike Harding
FollowupID:
349278
Follow Up By: pjchris - Wednesday, Dec 29, 2004 at 22:13
Wednesday, Dec 29, 2004 at 22:13
Guys,
With the Hondas all the 'special' (Read VERY expensive) cable does is to connect the AC outputs together. It does not even seem to matter whether the active goes to active or neutral to neutral.
So both
inverters produce AC which is sent to the load.
Basically you connect the two units together and then start them one at a time. So the first started generator must become the master.
I suspect that when the inverter unit powers up if there is already 240v present on the output then it mimics that output matching synch.
Peter
FollowupID:
349280
Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) - Thursday, Dec 30, 2004 at 22:19
Thursday, Dec 30, 2004 at 22:19
Mike, In my experience synchronisation is about synchronising the phase shift across each phase of a three phase system, single phase parallels are done simply by closing an isolator between two phases, there is no need (that I am aware of) to synchronise the sinewaves as they really only present a RMS voltage to the system. From two single phase generators, thats another interesting question that I will think about and some back to you.
FollowupID:
349354
Reply By: wewilly - Tuesday, Dec 28, 2004 at 11:08
Tuesday, Dec 28, 2004 at 11:08
Motherhen, Use 3KVA Honda generator (silent model) permanently installed undercover in back of ute. Easily starts & runs large aircon. in 6mtr van plus most other appliances & battery charger. Cheers Wewilly
AnswerID:
90529
Follow Up By: Mike Harding - Tuesday, Dec 28, 2004 at 11:42
Tuesday, Dec 28, 2004 at 11:42
How much does a 3KVA Honda gen cost?
Mike Harding
FollowupID:
349140
Follow Up By: motherhen - Tuesday, Dec 28, 2004 at 12:40
Tuesday, Dec 28, 2004 at 12:40
Honda EU30is list price $3850. Says it suitable for applications including frying pan, and 1.5 hp air con. It weighs around 70 kg though! With the $315 connector, it would be cheaper than 2 EU20is, but harder to carry. It also has the advantage of electric start (i hate pull cords).
FollowupID:
349143
Follow Up By: motherhen - Tuesday, Dec 28, 2004 at 12:47
Tuesday, Dec 28, 2004 at 12:47
Sorry, the EU30i weighs 59 kg
FollowupID:
349145
Reply By: Magnus - Wednesday, Dec 29, 2004 at 06:23
Wednesday, Dec 29, 2004 at 06:23
Motherhen,
Have you considered evaporative units. If you are not going to be in a humid area they work fine and don't need anywhere near as much power.
You can actually get maps showing where they are NOT suitable
Cheers
Magnus
AnswerID:
90611
Follow Up By: motherhen - Wednesday, Dec 29, 2004 at 11:46
Wednesday, Dec 29, 2004 at 11:46
Thanks for the thought - we will be near the coast - humid. Our U-Beaut caravan has a built in air. con, which everyone else is running satisfactorily with the Honda EU20i - just trying to find a business open this week who has them!
FollowupID:
349228
Reply By: motherhen - Thursday, Dec 30, 2004 at 00:00
Thursday, Dec 30, 2004 at 00:00
We bought one EU20i and will test it tomorrow. Thanks for all your input guys. Didn't get it quite as cheap as we could have from
places like The Honda
Shop and Grahams, but didn't have to travel so far to get it. Looking forward to getting on the road some time next week - i think a cattle sale will delay us, not to mention my husband wanting to make shelving for the back of the Nissan, similar to a plan by David
Hay which Truckster gave the link to. Thanks to all, Motherhen
AnswerID:
90711
Follow Up By: Powerlite - Wednesday, Jan 05, 2005 at 10:15
Wednesday, Jan 05, 2005 at 10:15
Dear motherhen, Kipor Power Inverter Generating Sets are distributed and serviced by Powerlite Generators. Currently there is only 2 manufacturers offering a comprehensive range of genuine inverter generators with Kipor offering the largest range of silenced inverter sets ranging from 1 to 6 kW. Kipor is the only manufacturer offering a silenced suitcase range which includes 1000, 2000 and 3000 models. The cost of paralleling 2 x EU10 Honda’s is approximately 50% dearer than purchasing one Kipor KGE3000Ti set. 2 x EU20 Honda’s would be double the 3000 Kipor price.
Kipor KGE3000Ti specifications: length 564mm width 317mm height 453mm weight dry 26 kgs wet (fueled and oiled) 31.5 kgs. As an option you can also get a collapsible handle with trolley
wheels to aid mobility. Value for money, Kipor can’t be beaten. For further details visit www.powerlite.com.au or www.powerlite.com.au/KGE3000.pdf
FollowupID:
349953
Reply By: Mr Z - Tuesday, Jan 04, 2005 at 20:44
Tuesday, Jan 04, 2005 at 20:44
have you tried the 20i yet, and how much did you get it for
AnswerID:
91327