The Melbourne Age Bull bar Survey

Submitted: Tuesday, Jan 11, 2005 at 17:00
ThreadID: 19263 Views:2371 Replies:8 FollowUps:8
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The Age is doing survey on banning bull-bars for urban registered 4wd.
Everyone is encouraged to respond.

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Reply By: Wazza (Vic) - Tuesday, Jan 11, 2005 at 17:03

Tuesday, Jan 11, 2005 at 17:03
Just read this,5936,11911280%255E421,00.html

Anti-bullbar campaign launched
By David Crawshaw
THE family of a Melbourne boy killed by a four-wheel-drive has begun a campaign to ban bullbars from vehicles in urban areas.

Shahid Hajher, seven, died in his sister's arms in the New South Wales south coast town of Kiama on January 3 after he was hit by a four-wheel-drive fitted with a bullbar.

His cousin, Farid Rawan, has become a lobbyist and is calling for a ban on bullbars on vehicles in NSW's urban areas.

Mr Rawan, a Sydney computer engineer, hoped Shahid's death would not be in vain.

He yesterday launched an email petition urging people to support a ban on bullbars on urban vehicles.

It was "ridiculous" for urban motorists to fit their cars with bullbars, Mr Rawan said.

"I'm sure in the country there's a big argument for them to prevent kangaroos coming through the windscreen," he said.

"I don't know how often that happens but in the city there's just no reason to have a bullbar."

Mr Rawan said his cousin was a gentle and brilliantly talented child.

"Shahid was one of the most innocent and sweetest kids I have ever met," he said.

"If he was in the house for a day it would light the whole house up."

The Pedestrian Council of Australia has backed Mr Rawan's campaign.

Council chairman Harold Scruby said bullbars were a factor in up to 12 per cent of pedestrian deaths but police and the Roads and Traffic Authority (RTA) were not enforcing standards regarding unsafe bullbars.

But motorists would gain demerit points for unsafe bullbars from March 1, he said.

Lake Illawarra police supervisor Sergeant Bryan Rugg said today police were unlikely to press charges against the driver of the four-wheel-drive that hit Shahid.

Comment was being sought from the office of NSW Police Minister John Watkins and the RTA.

AnswerID: 92458

Follow Up By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Tuesday, Jan 11, 2005 at 17:29

Tuesday, Jan 11, 2005 at 17:29
You gotta feel sorry for the family of the poor little tacka that became another statistic of course. But you also gotta ask yourself the question; "if he'd been hit by the same car/4x4 with a standard bumper bar or even a feather mattress on the front, wouldn't he still have come off just as bad? You don't get hit by a 2+ tonne vehicle and not get hurt or dead.....end of story.

As for the idea of trying to establish whether a vehicle is a fair dinkum "off-roader" used for excursions into that mythical place called "The Outback", who's gunna be the judge of that???? You could be a city dweller who only goes bush once a year or every weekend. What business is it of the authorities? Will they legislate against bullbars for urban-registered 4x4's? What about semi trailers and rigid trucks of 3,5,7, 10 tonne etc?
And what about us bush blokes who visit the city only infrequently? Are we gunna be pulled up by the city cops and asked to produce our licence to verify that we live outatown?

It's all gunna be too hard me thinks and they won't be able to bring it in.

FollowupID: 351349

Follow Up By: Member - Tim - Tuesday, Jan 11, 2005 at 17:44

Tuesday, Jan 11, 2005 at 17:44
Unfortunately Roachie it seems to be reaching the stage where the propoganda of the opposition is beginning to gain credibility. Harold Scruby is now quoted without any question of where his statistics come from and the inference in that article is that even though the driver hasn't been charged there must have been something wrong with the vehicle that caused the death. No questions and no report of how it actually happened or who's fault it was, just inferences that it must have been the bullbar. Not even an independent analysis that he would have survived if hit by something without a bullbar.

I think that we all need to start raising our voices in opposition whenever this sort of thing comes up. Perhaps start writing letters to the papers that question the facts, question the validity of their arguments and perhaps let the journalists know that there are people out there who don't agree with the current bias.

I have just voted in The Age's survey and encourage everybody else reading this to do it too. The numbers are currently low enough that our voice would be significant.

Damn, the soapbox just fell out from under me :).

FollowupID: 351351

Follow Up By: Rosco - Bris. - Tuesday, Jan 11, 2005 at 17:46

Tuesday, Jan 11, 2005 at 17:46
And what about those that come with the vehicle as a standard part, not an optional add-on.

Seems to me it would be a legislative nightmare.
FollowupID: 351354

Reply By: Member - Davoe (WA) - Tuesday, Jan 11, 2005 at 17:41

Tuesday, Jan 11, 2005 at 17:41
Must be tough over there in the East over here the only time I hear of crap like that is when i log onto this site. Until I started I didnt even relize there was any oposition to 4bys or bullbars. Here in Kalgoorlie you there are s many 4bys as cars and you are hard presssed to find one without a roobar. Now excuse me while I find my torch - no daylight savings over here yet
AnswerID: 92468

Follow Up By: Member - Tim - Tuesday, Jan 11, 2005 at 17:46

Tuesday, Jan 11, 2005 at 17:46
Except there was a post just the other day about new laws coming in over there in WA about resticting the height of suspension and body lifts. There must be something happening in Perth at least if not out where you are.
FollowupID: 351353

Follow Up By: Member - Davoe (WA) - Tuesday, Jan 11, 2005 at 18:00

Tuesday, Jan 11, 2005 at 18:00
that post also came from a victorian although copied from overlander? havnt heard anything about it here. now wheres that damned torch, might have to buy another from the shops sunday oh I forgot no sunday trading either
FollowupID: 351359

Reply By: Lone Wolf - Tuesday, Jan 11, 2005 at 17:51

Tuesday, Jan 11, 2005 at 17:51
What if......... what if........ we all said we would remove the bars, once the government removed all the kangaroos?
AnswerID: 92473

Follow Up By: REX.....(Adelaide) - Tuesday, Jan 11, 2005 at 18:14

Tuesday, Jan 11, 2005 at 18:14
ill give up mine when the goverment buys it back of me why should i pay for there changes to the law
i go bush once every few months and use my 4x4 to go to work in the city what am i suposed to do take it off when i drive in the city ??? what a load of fogbleeplet them try if 1 bull bar goes they all have to go trucks and all and who defines the limit as to how far you can go into the city with your bull bar??????
FollowupID: 351364

Reply By: GOB & denny vic member - Tuesday, Jan 11, 2005 at 18:59

Tuesday, Jan 11, 2005 at 18:59
i might be a hard barstard but what was the kid doing if police "are unlikely to press charges "
you dont hear the whole story and pricks like scrubby certainly twist facts to suit there intent
AnswerID: 92485

Reply By: MAVERICK(WA) - Tuesday, Jan 11, 2005 at 20:22

Tuesday, Jan 11, 2005 at 20:22
There is a group called the Australian National 4WD Council who were supposed to have set in place a business partnership with 'interested industry groups' to answer and fight allegations such as these. Where is the input from this type of group and indeed the manufacturers and retailers of such equipment? Similar to the anti-4WD crap that abounds - though now that Ray Martin is busy overseas pulling the heart strings how come it is surfacing at all? Not charitable I know but can't you people over East control your idiots. By the way is Kiama in the city? If the vehicle was on the road where was the kid? As for the newspaper poll - write to their advertisers and give them a spray about the lack of objectivity deing displayed in the newspaper reports and how you will not purchase their stuff unless they put pressure on the newspaer. The only thing that counts - $. rgds
Slow down and relax......

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AnswerID: 92506

Follow Up By: Patrol22 (Queanbeyan - Wednesday, Jan 12, 2005 at 09:56

Wednesday, Jan 12, 2005 at 09:56
Maverick - Kiama is a small town about 80kms south of Sydney on the NSW south coast but is probably in the league of being a part of Sydney - only about 1/2 hour from Pitt Street by road and about the same by electric train. Pretty spot which is increasingly being consumed by the urban sprawl which includes Sydney/Woollongong/Kiama/and probably down as far as Nowra.
FollowupID: 351477

Follow Up By: tcp_ip_boy - Wednesday, Jan 12, 2005 at 14:51

Wednesday, Jan 12, 2005 at 14:51
1/2 an hour from Pitt Sreet? WTF? It is half an hour from Wollongong (in the passenger seat of a tow truck with the Defender on the back, but thats another

Try 2 hours and about 120km. Trains are a bit longer.

It is a coastal tourist town, with tour busses, and heaps of tourists running around everywhere. They have this weird setup on the main street with raised bits of road that look like pedestrian crossings, but with no white lines. Pedestrians think they have right of way, as do cars. I think the cars have right of way, as there are signs for the pedestrians to "look, listen, wait", or something.

Several times I have gone to step out there, and cars have zoomed past me at an awful speed. They just looks like a pedestrian crossings. Toursists, especially those that don't speak english as a first language (I am only guessing) would step out infront of a car.

There are also a lot of farmers in the vicinity, hence the four wheel drives with bull bars.

One more thing. If 12% of accidents involve vehicles with bullbars, what percentage of vehicles actually have bullbars? I would have thought it would be between 10 and 15%. It's a bit like saying white cars have the most accidents.

Catch Ya's

FollowupID: 351517

Reply By: Willem - Tuesday, Jan 11, 2005 at 21:06

Tuesday, Jan 11, 2005 at 21:06
Blah Blah Blah ad nauseum BULLBAR PARANOIA
AnswerID: 92517

Reply By: Member - David 0- Tuesday, Jan 11, 2005 at 22:03

Tuesday, Jan 11, 2005 at 22:03
bullbars are a factor in 12% of accidents...Oh come on!!!!!!!!!!!!!
windscreens are probably a factor in 12% of accidents as well ...ban them!!!!
even bumber stickers could be a factor in 1% of accidents ban those nasty things as well!!!
The world has gone crazy.
AnswerID: 92528

Reply By: brian - Wednesday, Jan 12, 2005 at 08:02

Wednesday, Jan 12, 2005 at 08:02
Kiama is a seaside town approx 15000 residents 2 hours south of sydney.The child was killed crossing the road outside the police station not at a pedestrian crossing,what happened to parental training/supervision ,the driver apparently is not at fault but still a needless tragedy
AnswerID: 92578

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