Another Gas Bottle Question?

Submitted: Friday, Jan 21, 2005 at 10:33
ThreadID: 19645 Views:8368 Replies:9 FollowUps:8
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OK, Now I cant store a spare gas bottle inside the beast, so the question is:
Can I store a gas bottle lying down?
As the only other possy I have left for a spare is on the front luggage area on the roof, but I think it would have to lay down.

Cheers
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Reply By: Baz (NSW) - Friday, Jan 21, 2005 at 10:45

Friday, Jan 21, 2005 at 10:45
NO it is not recomended should be upright at all times.

My suggestion would be to put it in a gas bottle holder bought or homemade then attach it it somewhere maybe the back or on the front luggage area.

Baz.
AnswerID: 94233

Reply By: Member - Blue (VIC) - Friday, Jan 21, 2005 at 10:45

Friday, Jan 21, 2005 at 10:45
I don't know about NSW but here in Vic you can't store the spare in the beast. They must be stored externally or in a compartment which is ventilated and has access from the outside only. You also shouldn't store them laying down, something about the seals not liking being emersed in the liquid gas.
Blue
AnswerID: 94234

Follow Up By: firestang - Friday, Jan 21, 2005 at 16:19

Friday, Jan 21, 2005 at 16:19
Check this out , this is where we get our vans done and we have bottles inside the vehicle in a blast proof box . They have an office in sydney too .sorry havnt worked the other way out yet
http://www.caddystorage.com.au/product.asp?cid=Trade%20Kits&qid=Communications%20Kit%20E2600TC03
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FollowupID: 353286

Reply By: Willem - Friday, Jan 21, 2005 at 10:51

Friday, Jan 21, 2005 at 10:51
In a previous life and a previous truck I made up a bracket to fit on to the spare wheel holder where the gas bottle was stored inside an old 10lt paint tin. Then I got smarter and got rid of the gasbottle and bought a canister stove and it works well and the gasbottle is gone.

There is a debate as whether you can lie a gasbottle down. Some say no, but if you look at gaspowered forklifts, the bottle is lying down.
AnswerID: 94236

Follow Up By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Friday, Jan 21, 2005 at 11:07

Friday, Jan 21, 2005 at 11:07
Good point Willie,
Hope to cya on sunday mate
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Follow Up By: firestang - Friday, Jan 21, 2005 at 16:22

Friday, Jan 21, 2005 at 16:22
The gas bottles on lifts have their tubes that take the gas from the bottle in them in a way that they do not enter the liguid .ie angled up from the valve . Normal bottles don't have this and if put on their sdie can draw liquid instead of vapour .
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Follow Up By: Member - Russell B (SA) - Friday, Jan 21, 2005 at 16:55

Friday, Jan 21, 2005 at 16:55
Vehicle gas bottles are generally laid on their side, (haven't seen one that is not), They are almost never filled past 70% (modern ones without bleed valves) so I would imagine the seals aren't continuously wetted!.

My 2 bobs worth.

Regards
Russell

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FollowupID: 353296

Follow Up By: firestang - Friday, Jan 21, 2005 at 21:21

Friday, Jan 21, 2005 at 21:21
You are right Russell ,the valves sit at the top of the tank . The 70% is for the expansion room , they do have relief valves when they over pressure .i.e in a car fire .
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FollowupID: 353328

Follow Up By: pjchris - Friday, Jan 21, 2005 at 22:15

Friday, Jan 21, 2005 at 22:15
LPG powered vehicles deliver liquid gas to the engine for use and the bottles are designed to be laid down.

Gas bottles for stoves/BBQs deliver vaporised gas to the stove for use. So the seals at the top are not designed to come in to contact with the liquid gas for any length of time.

Also LPG for use in cars/forklifts is a mix of propane/butane and BBQ gas bottles are butane only.

Peter
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FollowupID: 353332

Reply By: fozzy - Friday, Jan 21, 2005 at 11:12

Friday, Jan 21, 2005 at 11:12
craig
dont know what size bottle you are talking about but (assume 4kg) if its only going to be a spare how about a smaller bottle say 2kg or even smaller which probably would be enough to cover cooking for couple of days at least until you get normal one refilled(unless you are in middle of nowhere).

AnswerID: 94241

Reply By: gordon g - Friday, Jan 21, 2005 at 13:51

Friday, Jan 21, 2005 at 13:51
I will never understand the regulations regarding the storage of gas bottles internally in different states as all the Britz Troopy hire vehicles that I have seen all have the gas bottles stored internally and they travel all over Aus.I also have travelled in Troopys for the past 25 years to all parts of Aus. with the gas bottles stored internally well secured in an upright position with no problems.
AnswerID: 94266

Reply By: Member - Davoe (WA) - Friday, Jan 21, 2005 at 14:30

Friday, Jan 21, 2005 at 14:30
Dunno about your set up but my nissan camper had more space than the tardis inside. is there no cupboard / undr bed you can put it. even in that well where you step in there is some space if you put it at the rear part of the well. as mentioned it could be a smaller backup. Do you need a spare? the gas bottle will last about a week minimum running the fridge and cooking (unless you go beserk with cooking) you would usually fuel up more regulary than that get your gas then. BTW I found the fridge would start to lose efficiency if you let the gas bottle down all the way so while you may save money with a spare bottle coz you dont have to fill up 1/4 full bottles you might find it is not worth it
AnswerID: 94274

Reply By: Member - John - Friday, Jan 21, 2005 at 14:38

Friday, Jan 21, 2005 at 14:38
Craig
Why don't you get a length of hose with a gas thread one end to screw into the gas bottle outlet and positively vent the other end to the outside of the vehicle through a penetration in the outside skin of the vehicle.
Then you could have the gas bottle in a cradle in the vehicle with the stop cock firmly turned off and the hose to the outside atmosphere to vent any gas that may escape from a stopcock malfunction.
I'm not suggesting that this hose be able to be connected to an appliance outside the vehicle.
You would still remove it when you get to site & want to set up appliances.
This is all predicated on whether it is permissible to have a gas bottle in the vehicle.

Regards

John
AnswerID: 94275

Follow Up By: phil - Friday, Jan 21, 2005 at 16:33

Friday, Jan 21, 2005 at 16:33
Hi,
The problem with this, and the reason for storing upright is the possibility of the safety valve blowing if the cylinder is exposed to excessive heat and/or overfilled. In this case there will be a lot of gas released. If the cylinder is on its side it will be liquid that is released.

Phil I
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FollowupID: 353290

Reply By: Member - Craig M (NSW) - Friday, Jan 21, 2005 at 22:11

Friday, Jan 21, 2005 at 22:11
Thanks everyone for all the input,
it seems that ideas differ from state to state as to whether its okay to store gas bottles inside the vehicle.
Going to go and check out what sort of brackets I can get hold of and see if its possible to attach one to the outside roof area.

Cheers
AnswerID: 94349

Reply By: Member - muzzgit - Saturday, Jan 22, 2005 at 01:26

Saturday, Jan 22, 2005 at 01:26
In a reply to your question, some-one stated that LPG for cars, and gas for cookers and bbq is different.

Just in case, I thought I'd let you know that this is not true.

We had a service station down the road (gone now) and when the truck filled up the LPG tank for the gas powered cars, he then took the same hose, put on an adaptor and filled up the gas tank for filling bbq bottles.

The reason we are told differently, is so that people don't try to fill their own bottles and blow themselves up. And also, they get to slug us about ten times as much !!
AnswerID: 94369

Follow Up By: pjchris - Saturday, Jan 22, 2005 at 18:53

Saturday, Jan 22, 2005 at 18:53
This is absolutely NOT true. In Victoria it is ILLEGAL to fill a BBQ gas bottle from a car LPG system.

I used to OWN a petrol station. The reason that your local filled the BBQ bottles from the LPG tanker is cost. Service stations pay much less for the gas that goes in to cars than that for BBQ bottles.

I repeat.. THEY ARE NOT THE SAME.

Office of Gas Safety

Do not use automotive LPG in a BBQ. The butane boils off first and burns a fair bit hotter than the propane which boils off later. And BBQs are jetted and adjusted to burn propane proerly and the mixture is all wrong when butane is in the bottle which can lead to hotter flame and/or extremely high amounts of toxic (Carbon monoxide) fumes being given off.

Peter
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FollowupID: 353390

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