Nth Sydney Council - and 4WD's ... and Scruby

Submitted: Tuesday, Feb 15, 2005 at 07:03
ThreadID: 20448 Views:2353 Replies:17 FollowUps:9
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Hi all

Just saw Scruby's smug face on the Today Show applauding the decision (or near decision) of North Sydney Council to double the residents parking levies if they own a 4WD. He cited "environmental damage" as the reason....intimating that 4WD's cause an inordinate amount of pollution and...well... he didn't really have any more ammunition than that. Chris Smith of the Today Show tested him asking "so... do they take up any more room? One parking space per vehicle"....etc...etc. Scruby didn't have an intelligent answer. It's plainly obvious that he's happy to be associated with another anti-4WD story.

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Reply By: 3.0turbob - Tuesday, Feb 15, 2005 at 08:07

Tuesday, Feb 15, 2005 at 08:07
'Just heard the same thing on the radio.
We need to flood the NSW authorities with e-mails, letters, whatever to voice our objection to this stupid proposal, because it won't stop there.
Do Google search if need be to find out contact details of the local/state members.

AnswerID: 98417

Reply By: peterK - Tuesday, Feb 15, 2005 at 08:18

Tuesday, Feb 15, 2005 at 08:18
I have two ideas that Im pushing (users of other sites may have heard them)

We could all just join the Pedestrian Council and have a say as to who represents us. (we all walk - well sometimes)

Membership forms are here:

Application Form forPedestrian Council

the other one:

Rather then sit back every time Harold or someone raises the old 4WD Bagging line without any real response. Shouldn't the largest motoring organisations represent owners and educate the public that there are differences between large cars, 4WDs, AWDs and the like and that simply because a car can be driven using all 4 wheels it isn't dangerous.

So since groups, like the NRMA represent owners, they should start "representing" owners. There must be a benefit - for example the NRMA elections are almost as large as the NSW State ones.

How to do it. All members of the motoring groups should write to their group and request that they respond to the minority claims of Harold types, and counter the incorrect claims. If they don't do it well, members of the groups can start rallying support to have a 4WD Friendly rep on the board.

AnswerID: 98418

Reply By: Brad and His Disco - Tuesday, Feb 15, 2005 at 08:20

Tuesday, Feb 15, 2005 at 08:20
Perhaps we should start our petetion/website promoting the use of 4wds. Once we enough signatures support then approach one of these 'TV Programs' to present our side of the story.

Will take a bit of organsing, but it will be worth while in the long run.

AnswerID: 98419

Reply By: Savvas - Tuesday, Feb 15, 2005 at 08:23

Tuesday, Feb 15, 2005 at 08:23
I find it hilarious that the council that has the largest proportion of urban 4WD's in Australia, wants to slug those residents with a double parking levy.

I reckon that's political suicide.
AnswerID: 98420

Reply By: Rod, Sydney - Tuesday, Feb 15, 2005 at 08:45

Tuesday, Feb 15, 2005 at 08:45
I am a resident of the North Sydney Council area and this initiative is true to form for the council and its mayor.

I believe is that she has driven away many businesses and much investment from the North Sydney CBD as well as cost the council many thousands of dollars in silly decisions which are contested by the ratepayers.
Rod, Perth

Lifetime Member
My Profile  My Blog  My Position  Send Message

AnswerID: 98426

Follow Up By: Shawn - Tuesday, Feb 15, 2005 at 12:25

Tuesday, Feb 15, 2005 at 12:25
Does Clover Moore run North Sydney as well???
FollowupID: 356939

Follow Up By: motherhen - Wednesday, Feb 16, 2005 at 01:10

Wednesday, Feb 16, 2005 at 01:10
Tell your Council what you think, and what the 4WDers of Australia are saying. Your Chamber of Commerce or whatever association your shops and businesses have should be duly alarmed at the potential loss of trade.
FollowupID: 357008

Reply By: Outbacktourer - Tuesday, Feb 15, 2005 at 08:48

Tuesday, Feb 15, 2005 at 08:48
The battle is already lost, the proletariat have already decreed that the 4WD is to die.

The reasons are of no consequence. Mob mentality rules in NSW where populist governance rules supreme.

This may PERHAPS be ended by a major sacrifice upon the alter of political correctness.

The enemy may be seen as vanquished beneath the sword of the righteous and allowed a respectable retreat suitably chastened.

The sacrifice may well be a special licence endorsement for owners of large 4WD's. Perhaps 4WD lobby groups should be on the front foot arguing FOR this.
AnswerID: 98427

Follow Up By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Tuesday, Feb 15, 2005 at 13:42

Tuesday, Feb 15, 2005 at 13:42
As much as I hate to admit it, I reckon you're probably on the right track here. The 4wd lobby could argue FOR a special licence which might stop some of the yahoos buying a 4wd and giving US (ie: responsible users) a bad name.


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Reply By: Member - Ross P (NSW) - Tuesday, Feb 15, 2005 at 09:03

Tuesday, Feb 15, 2005 at 09:03
How the hell are the council officers to determine what is 4WD?

Nissan Patrol, Toyota Landcruiser, Toyota Prado, Pajero ..... because they have low range? What about Suzukis, Dihatsus etc? What about Ford Territory, Totyota Rav4, Subaru Liberty, Outback and Forester, they have 4 wheel drive.
Is it length, height, width, weight? What about a Rolls Royce, they are just as big as my Pajero!
AnswerID: 98432

Reply By: Splitpin - Tuesday, Feb 15, 2005 at 09:07

Tuesday, Feb 15, 2005 at 09:07
"Or did he crawl out from under a rock as many say????"
Nah sounds like he crawled out from under a 4x4 at some stage, the amount he hates them! Its just cause people like him with no life have not got anything better to do than complain! I don't blame him, if I looked that bad i would need to focus my anger on something non constructive as well. Maybe we should send a picture of him to "extreme makeover" and get them to take him off our hands?
AnswerID: 98433

Reply By: Member - Steve (ACT) - Tuesday, Feb 15, 2005 at 09:07

Tuesday, Feb 15, 2005 at 09:07
Perhaps someone could invite the weather guy on the today show to come along for a drive somewhere, get the positive side on TV instead.

By the way did anyone see the latest Discount Tyre ad, I caught it last night has some rich lady talking about why she loves her 4wd, while she is cutting someone off when parking, the person comes to complain she winds the window up on them, then she says something about when the driving gets a little rough and then drives up and over the gutter.

Can't remember enough of the detail but basically was an ad depicting exactly what people are complaining about wealthy people owning cars they don't use for the purpose they are intended.

AnswerID: 98434

Reply By: Member - Davoe (WA) - Tuesday, Feb 15, 2005 at 09:52

Tuesday, Feb 15, 2005 at 09:52
what is it with Sydney? is it actually still part of real Australia? from the way youse guys talk there are attacks on 4bys at every turn. Bullbar polls, scrubby, and then that other guy whatever his name is. It seems the place has got to big and has become like London or something filled with people that wouldnt leave the city if they could. None of that crap gets any series airtime over here coz that is all it is
AnswerID: 98440

Reply By: Member - Chrispy (NSW) - Tuesday, Feb 15, 2005 at 09:57

Tuesday, Feb 15, 2005 at 09:57
OK, OK. Just been listening to Alan Jones on 2GB talking with the mayor of Nth Syd first hand.

IT IS NOT A TAX ON 4WD's as such!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It is an increase on parking permit fees for residents that own LARGE CARS WITH LARGE ENGINES - 4WD or NOT. Levies will be charged on a sliding scale - 4 cyl, 6 cyl, 8 cyl, etc - and the amount of hydrocarbons they emit accoring to an established authority's table.

The Mayor couldn't believe how wrong the Telegraph got the story - and it appears on three separate pages in that newspaper this morning.

The story author was Gemma Jones. It's HER we should be talking to. Obviously she's a reporter struggling to get a great "let's bash 4WD's" story........ along with Scruby.
AnswerID: 98441

Follow Up By: Member - Ross P (NSW) - Tuesday, Feb 15, 2005 at 10:35

Tuesday, Feb 15, 2005 at 10:35
So.... does that mean my 4 cylinder 3.2L direct injection diesel Pajero would cost the same as Mini Minor?

Wish I'd heard the interview!
FollowupID: 356912

Follow Up By: Member - Chrispy (NSW) - Tuesday, Feb 15, 2005 at 10:42

Tuesday, Feb 15, 2005 at 10:42
Nah... sorry Ross :(

It will be based on a sliding scale according to measured consumption levels.........apparently.

I'm in the same boat - I run a 5-cylinder T/Diesel - that gets 8.0L/100km - about the same as a Nissan Pulsar...... but are they going to listen to my argument .... or just lump me in with a V8 Grand Cherokee because the name is the same?
FollowupID: 356916

Follow Up By: Member - Smocky (NSW) - Wednesday, Feb 16, 2005 at 00:24

Wednesday, Feb 16, 2005 at 00:24
G'day, this is part of a post I made in another thread:
Perception is more important than reality though, and if you asked 100 people about Nth Sydney's new rule, they'll say it's to get 4wd's. Sadly, if you ask 100 politions, I reckon you get a similar % saying the same thing. The front page of the Tele said "It's war on 4wd's"

I did some digging on the links you kindly provided. An interesting thing was that in NSL councils own proposal, they have listed the 6 cylinder Commodore's as MEDIUM and the Jeep Grand Cherokee as HIGH. I checked the Green Vehicle Guide and the Jeep (Diesel) has a BETTER rating than the Commodore for greenhouse rating AND fuel consumption.

This illustrates the problem. Even the recommendation shows that the author had a pre-conceived idea that "4WD's" are the problem. So facts in this situation unfortunately counted for very little. The proposal also doesn't identify what the threshholds are so it's difficult to check on much else.
If you check the other threads, there are links to the North Sydney Council papers and the Green Vehicle Guide. There may have been some merit in the original idea, but the fact that the kind of assumed all 4wd's were worse than commodores and Falcons is a an example of our problem. So in theory Chrispy, you should be OK:-)

FollowupID: 357004

Reply By: Disco Luva - Tuesday, Feb 15, 2005 at 12:22

Tuesday, Feb 15, 2005 at 12:22
Did it ever occur to any of the people out there that instead of complaing and saying that someone should do something that you should push your club committee to start taking some action, and if you are not in a 4wd club don't even bother bitching. In the 30 yeras I have been involved with 4wd's the major problem seems to be with people who are not in clubs that promote safe driving and responsible attitudes to other road users. Try buying a second car so that you do not have to drive your 4wd everywhere, move somewhere else but please just stop whining, either get off your butt or butt out.
AnswerID: 98478

Follow Up By: Member - Davoe (WA) - Tuesday, Feb 15, 2005 at 12:56

Tuesday, Feb 15, 2005 at 12:56
pretty silly coment! why should I buy another vehicle? do the math it is more expensive to own 2 vehicles than 1 even if one gets real good economy. I use my bike a fair bit round town. probably well over 50% of people in town here regulary drive 4bys - why should they all join a club, that is a personal choice that should fit in with your intrests and lifestyle - not due to your vehicle.
FollowupID: 356947

Reply By: Member - DickyBeach - Tuesday, Feb 15, 2005 at 13:36

Tuesday, Feb 15, 2005 at 13:36
Listening to Sally Loane on 2BL this morning one complaint was 4WDs are too big to park on the street.
A quick check of GMH's and Toyota's and Holden's and Jaguar's and Mercedes websites disclosed that the LandCruiser is shorter than the Statesman, all Jags, all the larger Mercs; the Cruiser is, however, longer than the Ford Fairlanem, by half an inch.
Depending on whether or not to include the wing mirrors the various widths are within 10cm of one another.

Never let the facts get in the way of an argument.
AnswerID: 98490

Reply By: Member - Bradley- Tuesday, Feb 15, 2005 at 14:19

Tuesday, Feb 15, 2005 at 14:19
they will all have to buy suzuki jimnys :-))))

I knew i hated Sydney, but now have another reason.

I dont think knocking ol scrubes out of the pedestrian council will help, he would just pop up in the australia institute (more dangerous) or in the greens.
AnswerID: 98498

Reply By: Member - DickyBeach - Tuesday, Feb 15, 2005 at 15:08

Tuesday, Feb 15, 2005 at 15:08
Obtained from:

The Pedestrian Council of Australia Limited is an Incorporated (Public) Company, limited by guarantee. The objectives stated in its Memorandum of Association are:

1. the continual improvement of pedestrian safety, amenity and access;
2. the promotion of walking as a legitimate transport mode and an important, healthy, social activity;
3. the encouragement of the inclusion of pedestrian safety, amenity and access provisions in all urban and transport planning;
4. the enhancement of community health and welfare and particularly the enhancement of the health and welfare of those members of the community who are aged, infirm, disabled, young, socially disadvantaged, tourists or included in any other special interest group or group of persons under any kind of handicap or disability; and
5. research (including experiments and surveys and their publication) into all aspects of the objects set out in 1, 2, 3 and 4.

A Pedestrian is defined as any person wishing to travel by foot, wheelchair or electric scooter, throughout the community. Membership of the Pedestrian Council of Australia Limited is open to individuals and institutions approved by the Board of Directors as having interests or concerns of like nature to those of the PCA.

The PCA's role is essentially one of education, advocacy and the promotion of a culture of concern and care within the whole community for the rights and responsibilities of pedestrians. Provision and infrastructure to meet the expectations of such a concerned community is properly the responsibility of the land use, transport and road authorities.

AnswerID: 98507

Follow Up By: Lyds - Tuesday, Feb 15, 2005 at 21:44

Tuesday, Feb 15, 2005 at 21:44
all noble objectives. but what do they have to do with 4WDs? :-)
FollowupID: 356984

Reply By: Member - DickyBeach - Wednesday, Feb 16, 2005 at 00:10

Wednesday, Feb 16, 2005 at 00:10
B......d if I know.
AnswerID: 98593

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