More specifics on Rust Proofing

Folks,

I have done a couple of searches through the archives on rust proofing, but unfortunatley haven't found the answers I'm looking for. I have an '04 Prado and will be heading up DI shorlty with the vehicle (mid march).

I am having a heck of a time trying to filter through the sales hype/general B.S. on rustproofing options.

The way I see it I have three options:

1) Dont rustproof at all - todays manufacturing allows for galvanised bodies etc. But do coat it with Salt Assault or Lanolin before the trip and give it a very thorough clean and Salt Assault when I arrive home. Toyota customer help line say they do not recommend rust proofing of any kind

2) Apply traditional chemicals - from what I have found talking to many many places, the best way is with a reputable rust proofer that will wax the inside of the rails and susp tubes etc, then Tectol the full under body and apply a clear resin to the engine and engine bay finally spraying that amber wax stuff inside the doors and roof etc.

3) Use a CAPACITIVE electronic system - most comment in the archives I searched on dont differentiate on the different electronic systems - some people have said they dont work, but have failed to say which system they use. I accept the sacrificial anode system is tripe and has been banned in the USA etc, but how does ERPS perform?? Do these have the capability to interfer with ECU's?

I dont plan to use it often on the beach at all, but dont like the idea of unsightly surface rust on diff housings etc.
The chemical treatment is my least prefered method due to the fact that when I want to work under the car - it gets in the way and makes a mess, plus it needs to be maintained to be effective. However if this is the only real way to do it then so be it
The electronic system sounds the best of all if it is true and is not snake oil - can anyone give any real feedback on the ERPS system? Are there issues with it not working on the insulated components of the car (ie suspension), and therefore the Chassis in the Prado seeing as it is a 'floating body on the chassis'

Thanks
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Reply By: ev700 - Wednesday, Feb 23, 2005 at 23:55

Wednesday, Feb 23, 2005 at 23:55
BOXER
I would be inclined to follow Toyota's advice - they would be honest brokers regarding best care of their products. I would also wash regularly and after beach to remove mud and salt.

ERPS
Maybe the distributors of capacitative electronic rust prevention systems such as ERPS could supply the product to the Australian Consumers Association for testing.
If it worked this could result in good publicity.

EV700
AnswerID: 99835

Reply By: Rosco - Bris. - Thursday, Feb 24, 2005 at 10:09

Thursday, Feb 24, 2005 at 10:09
Boxer

Forget options 1 and 3. I am not aware of any vehicles with galvanised body panels and the electronic systems have not been proven to work as far as I am concerned. As EV700 suggests, perhaps the system should be tested by a reputable organisation.

Option 2 is your best bet by far, but go to a reputable mob. They have to gear to get the stuff into all the little nooks and crannies. It can be a little messy, but only for a short while and I reckon that's a small price to pay.

Cheers
AnswerID: 99889

Follow Up By: Member - Sand Man (SA) - Thursday, Feb 24, 2005 at 16:52

Thursday, Feb 24, 2005 at 16:52
Rosco, FYI

The body panels on the Holden Jackaroo are galvanised prior to painting.
Have been this way for quite some time now.
Bill


I'm diagonally parked in a parallel Universe!

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Follow Up By: Rosco - Bris. - Thursday, Feb 24, 2005 at 20:41

Thursday, Feb 24, 2005 at 20:41
Sand Man

I stand corrected, it's a good idea, of which I was unaware. I guess it must be pre-galvanised prior to stamping out the panels, as the finish on exposed surfaces does not suggest hot dip galv.

Good to see some manufacturers are taking a pro-active approach.
The inner front guards of Landies are galvanised, but as they don't exactly qualify as body panels I chose not to include them.

Mind you with Al panels elsewhere I reckon I'm still in front. Steel frames to doors etc which still need attention.

The other manufacturers should take a leaf from Isuzu's book.

Cheers

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Follow Up By: Member - Sand Man (SA) - Thursday, Feb 24, 2005 at 21:16

Thursday, Feb 24, 2005 at 21:16
No probs Rosco,

I gave you a positive attribute of the Jackaroo panels.
Now here's a negative. To reduce weight, the panels are a bit on the thin side and so easily suffer from the "shopping centre car park syndrome" (dings from bleeping dingbats that throw open the doors of their bleepbox cars)

Wow! That feels better.
Now I have to shop around for a set of side steps.
(preferably with spikes embedded in them)
Bill


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Follow Up By: Rosco - Bris. - Thursday, Feb 24, 2005 at 22:16

Thursday, Feb 24, 2005 at 22:16
Sandy

You reckon you've got probs. Try Ally for copping dings. The part that really bleep es me off is that I've got side steps which keep the plebs at bay, but I've copped more than my fair share ... obviously from dickwit fourby drivers who don't give a sh*t about anyone else's property. It gets right up my nose.

There... I feel better ... think I'll have a cuppa and a Bex.

Cheers
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Follow Up By: Utemad - Thursday, Feb 24, 2005 at 22:59

Thursday, Feb 24, 2005 at 22:59
I'm with you Sandman. Didn't know about the galvinised panels but my 1997 beach going Rodeo has nil rust. However I have managed to put a small crease line in the front left guard just by leaning on it. The cab panels seem a little thin but the style side tray can cop a pounding. I wonder why they didn't use the same steel all round?
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Reply By: TheUndertaker - Thursday, Feb 24, 2005 at 17:41

Thursday, Feb 24, 2005 at 17:41
Boxer ,I use option 3,the erps,have doe so since my vehicle was new, if your worried about insulated components ,the way around is to earth same,,
option 2 has faults,break the so called seal of chemicals and your protection is zilch,one good gravel road and all the expensive garbage is pockmarked to hell,ditto a beach run[sandblasting].
All the chemical so called rust preventative companys all stress bulk fresh water rinsing after a beach run ,why ?? because their expensive chemicals have been blasted off !!!! Never ever use the drive through spray booths as found at rainbow ect, the water is recycled to such an extent that its more sand than water.
AnswerID: 99952

Follow Up By: Rosco - Bris. - Thursday, Feb 24, 2005 at 20:49

Thursday, Feb 24, 2005 at 20:49
I would have to disagree here. I believe it's more to do with the rust proofing compound creeping in between all the laps and seams which are not painted or adequately treated. True, exposed areas get sand/grit blasted, but they are not the spots prone to rust. It's the little nooks and crannies which entrap moisture and salt laden water which cause the problem.
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Follow Up By: Member - Ed. C.- Thursday, Feb 24, 2005 at 20:51

Thursday, Feb 24, 2005 at 20:51
Undertaker,
I've been contemplating this (ERPS) matter for quite a while....
Hard to find opinions from anyone with first-hand experience, & the "Doubting Thomas's'' always appear to be those who have never tried the system....
Are you satisfied that the system works? &
Would you recommend it without reservation?
How many "couplers" are you using?
TIA

Regards, Ed. C.
Confucius say.....
"He who lie underneath automobile with tool in hand,
....Not necessarily mechanic!!"

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Follow Up By: Rosco - Bris. - Thursday, Feb 24, 2005 at 22:23

Thursday, Feb 24, 2005 at 22:23
Ed

You can count me as a "DT" as well ... at this stage. In the event the system was checked out by an independent unbiased body, such as ACA or similar and found to be a real alternative which offered positive results, I would then accept it as a solution to the problem. Until then I tend to put it in the Snake Oil basket.

Cheers
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Follow Up By: Member - Ed. C.- Thursday, Feb 24, 2005 at 22:57

Thursday, Feb 24, 2005 at 22:57
G'day Rosco,
Point noted... I guess I can be counted as a "DT" myself, otherwise, I'd be using the system by now;-)
On the other hand, if it can't do any harm????
Obviously, vigilance is the key here, and as long as things are kept clean & dry, all should be sweet... However, anything that just MIGHT delay the onset of the dreaded "cancer", would have to be a good thing, I would have thought...
Like you, I would like to the results of some independant tests by a credible entity... (not sure about the ACA in this regard)....
Until then, we will just have to rely on the experience(s) of actual users of the product in question....

Regards, Ed. C.
Confucius say.....
"He who lie underneath automobile with tool in hand,
....Not necessarily mechanic!!"

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Follow Up By: B0XER - Thursday, Feb 24, 2005 at 23:41

Thursday, Feb 24, 2005 at 23:41
I kinda guessed there'd be a divided response once again.

I do have a close friend who works at RACQ vehicle inspections and he too agrees with TheUndertaker - he informs me he has seen more rusty 4x4's with chemical rustproofing applied than nothing done at all.

This and the messy appearance are the reasons I have not had it done yet

However I do understand that there are different coatings - some crack and hold moisture, others dont.

Rosco - if its only the nooks and crannies rust appears in - why dont they just treat those areas? I asked a few places to do this but they weren't interested saying I needed to fully coat the floor pan as well?
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Follow Up By: Rosco - Bris. - Friday, Feb 25, 2005 at 08:24

Friday, Feb 25, 2005 at 08:24
Boxer

Unpainted metal in the laps and seams are areas most prone to rust for obvious reasons, however any untreated area such as stone chips etc will rust.

As far as your RACQ mate's concerned, I would venture to suggest the un-rusted vehicles most likely have never had sand between their toes.

The rusted ones most likely get it a lot but are not cleaned down afterwards.

To suggest treating with a rust proofing agent hastens the onset of the dreaded cancer is, dare I say, unusual.

Cheers
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FollowupID: 358272

Reply By: Eric Experience. - Thursday, Feb 24, 2005 at 22:30

Thursday, Feb 24, 2005 at 22:30
Boxer.
The reason that Toyota don't recomend any rustproofing is most likely the fact that badly done rustproofing can trap water in the seams, the original coating put on in the factory is a good product and is put on when the steel is clean and dry. Rust is a matter of miosture and time, if the sils and doors drain and dry as soon as posible that is the best outcome. If I was in your position I would not do anything other than wash the underside with ordinary clean water, definately not truch wash as that removes the wax coating. Eric.
AnswerID: 100005

Follow Up By: B0XER - Thursday, Feb 24, 2005 at 23:46

Thursday, Feb 24, 2005 at 23:46
Makes sense Eric and backs up what TheUndertaker and RACQ have said.
You make a good point about the door drains - that is another thing to be careful of I guess with chemical rustproofing - you need to ensure it hasn't blocked the drain holes
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FollowupID: 358248

Reply By: B0XER - Thursday, Feb 24, 2005 at 23:51

Thursday, Feb 24, 2005 at 23:51
Thanks for everyones replies so far - I'd REALLY like some more feedback on ERPS - comments from real experiences with it are few and far between, and the technology has been marred by poor electronic systems in the past it seems.

It'd be the best of both worlds if it works - portable from car to car - no underbody mess and 'sandblasting' to deal with, plus protection

AnswerID: 100034

Reply By: ev700 - Friday, Feb 25, 2005 at 00:53

Friday, Feb 25, 2005 at 00:53
Maybe some skilled professional could comment on this article about the
effectiveness or otherwise of certain electronic rust prevention devices:

http://www.corrosion-doctors.org/Car/car-electronic-rust.htm
AnswerID: 100040

Follow Up By: B0XER - Friday, Feb 25, 2005 at 10:37

Friday, Feb 25, 2005 at 10:37
ev700,

I have read a few of these documents, and also the Karl Kruzelnizcki story - however both are on the Cathodic electrical systems, not the newer Capacitive couplers like ERPS
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FollowupID: 358285

Reply By: Fusion - Friday, Feb 25, 2005 at 09:26

Friday, Feb 25, 2005 at 09:26
I've used the ERPS on 2 cars now as has a friend of mine. I have no hard and fast evidence as the first car, Nissan X-Trail I only had for 2.5 yrs, and at the end it obviously had no rust, despite being on the beach many times.

One incident that was interesting though, was a hole in the paint of the door. Looked like some kid had shot the door with an air rifle. Made a 5mm indentation in the door and lifted the paint clean off an area the size of a 50c piece. I should have had it fixed right away but didn't. It took about 3mths before any corrosion appeared on that bare metal, and then only after I had it on the beach again. This to me was a long time for rust to appear on bare metal. I'm not an expert, but I've seen tin and other thin metals rust after being left outside overnight.

This is what ERPS has to say about my situation:
"While the system is a unique and very effective rust preventative, its basic mechanism is to slow the electrochemical reactions involved in rust, therefore any bare metal is still likely to develop a superficial layer of surface rust, because this is a direct reaction between the chemical components of corrosion."

To me snake oil salesman will not give you all the info. ERPS does and continually say on the website it's not magic, and things will still rust, just at a slower rate.

Thats my experience anyway.

Aaron.
AnswerID: 100062

Reply By: MrBitchi - Friday, Feb 25, 2005 at 10:08

Friday, Feb 25, 2005 at 10:08
Have had several 4WD's over the years and so far have done my own rustproofing with Tectyl. Never had rust.
Current car (NM Pajero) I'm treating with Staun 329 inhibitor and washing with Salt Assault. Time will tell :-)

Cheers, John.
AnswerID: 100067

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