Snorkel pre cleaner

Submitted: Wednesday, Apr 06, 2005 at 00:58
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When I had a snorkel fitted to the GU, I was asked if I wanted an oiled precleaner "sock" to put in the top. OK, Why not !

Damn glad I did. I took it out the other day for a bow peep, and I couldn't believe the crap that came out of it. Twigs, bees, bugs, moths, leaves, seeds, it was about 2 inches deep and it had a fair amount of fine dust stuck in the oil.

Fairly elementary I know, but all this crap would have ended up further down the snorkel if not in the aircleaner itself.

I have cleaned and re-oiled it before but it was nowhere as dirty the first couple of times. Most of my driving is around perth, with weekend trips to the coast every month or so.

Also, I like the idea of the pre-oiled bit, but being a modern "hitech" motor (3.0TDi) I can't fit an oiled aircleaner because of the air mass sensor.

If you don't have one of these precleaner socks in your snorkel, I would reccomend you get one.

Cheers,

Muzz

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Reply By: BenSpoon - Wednesday, Apr 06, 2005 at 01:06

Wednesday, Apr 06, 2005 at 01:06
Sounds pretty decent.
I cleaned my finer filter the other day and had all the crap you mentioned stuck in my airbox.

What brand is it? Where does it mount? Do you need a particular type of snorkel head?

In regards to having an oiled filter, someone stuck a link up on the forum recently re a test between oiled and paper filters. Cant remember exactly, but as I recall the (generally cheaper) paper ones out performed the oiled filters in flow restriction and filtering ability. That said, Im not going to change to paper anytime soon because I've got a foam one that doesnt need replacing.
AnswerID: 105364

Follow Up By: muzzgit (WA) - Wednesday, Apr 06, 2005 at 01:19

Wednesday, Apr 06, 2005 at 01:19
Any retailer of snorkels or air cleaners should have them. You simply remove the head and it slides down inside the snorkel, and has a ring at the top to hold it in place, then put the head back on.

Mine cost about $14 I think. Money well spent.

Cheers,

Muzz
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Reply By: Wayne (NSW) - Wednesday, Apr 06, 2005 at 06:23

Wednesday, Apr 06, 2005 at 06:23
Muzzgit,

That oiled sock that goes on top of the snorkel was first used on Hiluxes to try to stop noise and virabation.

With any oiled filter the trend was to over oil the filter and end up with a bid mess.I have not fitted a snorkel for a while and this is the first time that I have heard of a ooiled sock being fitted.

Have you tried the vehicle without the sock, it would go better?

Just a word of warning, with the Hilux sock, they dried out after a while and dislogded from the snorkel and were found in the air filter. This made the vehicle run a lot slower and the fuel use went up because the air filter became blocked with the sock.

Wayne
AnswerID: 105366

Follow Up By: muzzimbidgie - Wednesday, Apr 06, 2005 at 17:07

Wednesday, Apr 06, 2005 at 17:07
These are not a maintenance free item.

I am suprised that people would put one in the snorkel and forget about it !!

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Reply By: Willem - Wednesday, Apr 06, 2005 at 08:54

Wednesday, Apr 06, 2005 at 08:54
I am of the opinion that you are restricting the airflow in to the vehicle by putting a filtering device somewhere in or on the snorkel. This will probably make the vehicle use more fuel and run less efficient.

You could use a filtering device for short periods of time, if for instance, you are travelling in densely overgrown country or driving through a swarm of insects.

Let your normal air cleaner do its work and check it regularly.
AnswerID: 105376

Follow Up By: V8Diesel - Wednesday, Apr 06, 2005 at 10:39

Wednesday, Apr 06, 2005 at 10:39
Couldn't agree with you more Willem. Snorkels are restrictive full stop. I have a Donaldson type Caterpillar pre-cleaner 'cyclone' for the top of my snorkel which is great. The filter bowl can be seen from the drivers seat and tapped out in a minute.

When the snorkel is not actually required (eg: city, highway use etc), I completely bypass the entire precleaner-snorkel-airfilter set up and replace it with a K&N 'rice boy' filter mounted direct to the intake manifold which I keep behind the seat in a ziplock plastic bag when not in use. Having the intake air pass through six sharp bends in a 75mm tube slows it right down and severly restricts airflow. If you don't believe me, try removing the pipe to the inlet manifold and go for a spin on the tarmac.

This gives significant improvements in power, fuel economy and noise reduction taking about 60 seconds to swap over when it required.
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FollowupID: 362492

Follow Up By: Member - Captain (WA) - Wednesday, Apr 06, 2005 at 13:22

Wednesday, Apr 06, 2005 at 13:22
After fitting a snorkel on my GU myself, I found a ~700mm long pipe inside the inner guard that extends the air intake to roughly where the snorkel hole is made on the guard. Additionally, a large "small cell" foam block was cable tied over the end (standard Nissan fitment). Now while the foam block probably helps suppress induction noise, it also helps filter (restrict!!!) air flow prior to the cleaner. But once this foam becomes blocked with dust and moisture, how does one clean it?

The addition of a snorkel on a GU effectively involves only two extra bends (1. where the snorkel enters the inner guard and 2. the "mouth" of the snorkel) but now has the ram effect while moving and no foam restriction. IMHO this gives a higher airflow than no snorkel. I have an 8" Donaldson pre-cleaner that worked a treat on my 80 series, but I cannot fit it to the Nissan snorkel (need an angled adaptor which I have yet to make).

As for the original post about oiled socks, I think they help keep the airfilter clean but at a small loss of airflow. But as I don't have one, this is not based on use, just opinion.

Cheers

Captain
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Follow Up By: V8Diesel - Wednesday, Apr 06, 2005 at 14:08

Wednesday, Apr 06, 2005 at 14:08
Ahhh, sorry Cap'n, neglected to mention the snorkel is on my HJ75, not the GU. Problem with this particular one is the air has to travel some 180' bends to get to the standard Toyota air filter assembly, and is then even further restricted by the outlet which I think was inintially designed to suit the 3.6l diesel, not a 6.5.

It's a chalk and cheese comparison on mine.
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Follow Up By: V8troopie - Wednesday, Apr 06, 2005 at 14:54

Wednesday, Apr 06, 2005 at 14:54
V8 diesel, you must have a very odd snorkel set up on your HJ75. On mine there is a 90 deg bend at the ram air intake and a gradual 90 deg bend where the 75mm snorkel tube enters the fender housing. The outlet from the standard Toyota filter box top to the V8 inlet chamber is also 75 mm.

But I think I have seen those arrangements where the snorkel goes a long way forward on the fender and then does a 180 deg turn to enter the original air inlet spout. A crazy arrangement, IMO.
Klaus
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Follow Up By: V8Diesel - Wednesday, Apr 06, 2005 at 17:09

Wednesday, Apr 06, 2005 at 17:09
V8troopie, here's some pics (picture's worth a thousand words!) Mine is a 1985 HJ75 and the conversion was done by Brunswick a fair while ago so there may well be improved systems now (like throttle return from memory). As you can see, I just release the clips from the top of the filter housing, remove the plug (an 80mm plastic cup), take off the K&N and spin it into place.

[ View Image]
[ View Image]
[ View Image]
[ View Image]

This vehicle was purchased from Shell Exploration and has the welded steel snorkel fitted (which is strong enough to stand on), underside bash plates, reinforced diff housings, 60l water tank, long range belly tank for additional fuel, HD radiator, oil cooler etc etc so it may well be a one off. I do know that Frank Hardey from Chev Power in Maddington said to get rid of the factory snorkel for more power on a mates HJ75 too.
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FollowupID: 362526

Follow Up By: Member - Jeff M (WA) - Wednesday, Apr 06, 2005 at 18:30

Wednesday, Apr 06, 2005 at 18:30
I gotta agree with Captain, my snorkel goes straight down the guarg, 90 and straight into the airbox. The origional air intake had more bends in it and then ramed itself into some stupid looking plastic box with little tiny holes in it (obvously an induction noise restrictor).
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FollowupID: 362539

Follow Up By: V8Diesel - Wednesday, Apr 06, 2005 at 18:52

Wednesday, Apr 06, 2005 at 18:52
V8troopie, forgot to mention that the outlet from the air filter to inlet manifold is certainly 75mm, but it's the silly flattened section as it leaves the top of the filter that's my main problem I reckon.

Just out of interest, try driving your rig totally unfiltered and see if it makes a difference. You've got a 6.2 in your 75 don't you?

Jeff & Captain, those tiny holes do sound like a worry. Be careful but, some 4 cyl motorbikes need a baffle on the intake to run properly (from bitter experience).
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FollowupID: 362544

Follow Up By: V8troopie - Thursday, Apr 07, 2005 at 00:57

Thursday, Apr 07, 2005 at 00:57
V8Diesel, thanks for the pics, they told me indeed a thousand things :-0
Whoever fitted your snorkel did not want to modify the air cleaner housing. It pains me to see that set up!

Mine was modified for a snorkel inlet at the point the housing is closest to the side wall. This is, IMO, still not the correct way to do it as for using the air filter element most efficiently the incoming air should hit it at a tangent and not at a right angle. As it was, the finer filter quickly got choked with gunk directly opposite the snorkel hole.
I re did the whole lot with a housing I got from the wreckers. The tangential air inlet goes nearly the reverse direction as the original Toyota inlet tube was. I used 75mm exhaust tube and fitted this to the housing after brazing it first to a plate that had the same curve as the housing.

The result is the filter element now gets dirty evenly round and seems to work much better. The swirling air action also neatly deposits bees and bigger gunk down that little water trap canister for later disposal.

the 'silly flattened section' you mention has not yet bothered me, I think is cross sectional area is near the same as the round further on. But, as you now have drawn my attention to this, I will experiment with fitting a decent knee bend there, I have the spare lid to play around with now.

I was never game to try to run the V8 without any filter, there is a *lot* of suction and I'm afraid my engine space is not so spotless to guarantee no gunk gets inhaled.

yes, I do have the 6.2, done 4 years ago by Brunswick motors.

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FollowupID: 362592

Follow Up By: V8Diesel - Thursday, Apr 07, 2005 at 10:22

Thursday, Apr 07, 2005 at 10:22
V8troopie, good idea. The revised layout of the air filter box as you describe it would perform the same 'cyclone' effect as the Donaldson which would allow the use of a ram to give a positive pressurisation at speed to the snorkel I'd expect. You can see from the pics why my setup is far from ideal.

I paid about $120 for my K&N, because nothing else was avilable at the time, but Supercrap and Repco now have 'knock-off' copies for under $20 if you want to experiment.

After mucking around with just the basics of air in and out on my 6.5, I have found significant increases in power and drivability available over standard. Big improvements.

Let us know how you go with the filter lid V8, I still think it's the weakest link. Bunnings sel PVC pipe in just the right size for making an elbow, it's the wing nut that's the problem.
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Follow Up By: Member - Jeff M (WA) - Thursday, Apr 07, 2005 at 11:06

Thursday, Apr 07, 2005 at 11:06
Ahhhhh, that explains why I have to keep rotating my Unifilter in dusty conditions. It does JUST THAT. There is a snorkel shaped dusty spot and the rest of the filter is reasonablly clean! I just had a look of a photo of my engine bay and even though the air box is on a 45 degree angle (almost) because of the flexiable rubberhose that goes from the snorkel into the air box it curve just slighty, probally enough to level out the air flow to go directly into the filter's side instead of swirling around the air box... Hmmm, another project!! ;-)
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FollowupID: 362636

Reply By: hanson - Wednesday, Apr 06, 2005 at 11:20

Wednesday, Apr 06, 2005 at 11:20
I agree with you Muzz, i obtained mine from ARB about 2 and a half years ago and check it regularly summer abt every 1-2000ks as we on dirt road winter abt 5000 ks picks up all the grass hoppers bees beetles and big crud and makes cleaning normal filter a lot easier. Also I have found that I use less diesel with sock in place in snorkel. This is my opinion and everyone else's conditions could be very different to mine.
Cheers Ric
AnswerID: 105391

Reply By: Member - Jeff M (WA) - Wednesday, Apr 06, 2005 at 14:19

Wednesday, Apr 06, 2005 at 14:19
Mate I have had this discussion/debate many times over and an oiled air cleaner will be fine in your vehicle. Also, the pre cleaner is exactly the same foam and oil as the oiled filter so if you were worried about damaging sensors (which your souldn't be anyway) then I wouldn't be using the pre cleaner either as it's exactlly the same.

When I re-oil my oiled foam filter in my 3.0L Turbo Diesel EFI motor (with O2 sensors, temp sensors etc etc etc) I always find heaps of bugs and twigs andbleepall inside the air box. I clean the filter and re oil, cover the air intake hose and give the air box a quick squirt with the air compressor, get's rid of all thatbleep.
AnswerID: 105409

Follow Up By: muzzimbidgie - Wednesday, Apr 06, 2005 at 17:20

Wednesday, Apr 06, 2005 at 17:20
The point I was trying to make, is I have a normal paper element airfilter which will catch any oil particles that may come from the oiled pre cleaner.

Many people on this forum have had trouble with air mass sensors (me included), so doing ANYTHING to bugger them up is something to avoid.
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FollowupID: 362527

Follow Up By: Member - Jeff M (WA) - Wednesday, Apr 06, 2005 at 18:25

Wednesday, Apr 06, 2005 at 18:25
I can understand your reservations, however I'm 99.9999999% sure you would have no problems with the troll. My air temp sensor in the Surf is RIGHT AT the entrance from the air box (ie right next to the filter) and it doesn't have a scrap of oil on it. As long you don't over oil the filter (you hardly need any oil on it, 2 x teaspoons) you won't have a drama. But hey, each to their own. It'll save you a heap if you do a lot of dusty driving if you don't have to replace a $50 filter every 10k.

Even the third part filters for mine are over $50, that's nearly a carton of bleep a service for free!!!:-)))))

And the other advantage is when you go for a day out with the boys and totally fill it up with crap, you can just clean it out so it's like new when you get home instead of driving around with a half knackered filter till your next service. And yeah I know you can blow the paper ones out with the air compressor, that's what I used to do, but it only works so many times before its just stuffed.
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FollowupID: 362537

Follow Up By: muzzgit (WA) - Wednesday, Apr 06, 2005 at 23:47

Wednesday, Apr 06, 2005 at 23:47
I think the sutup for a 3.0 SURF may be different to a 3.0 PATROL.

I don't know about the surf and you are quite welcome to keep using an oiled foam element filter if you like, BUT, quite a few 3.0 Patrol owners have had a nightmare trying to sort out engine management system faults because of oil particles stuffing up the air mass sensor.

It simply is not an option in a 3.0 Patrol.

nu uh, not for me.
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FollowupID: 362589

Follow Up By: Member - Jeff M (WA) - Thursday, Apr 07, 2005 at 11:01

Thursday, Apr 07, 2005 at 11:01
I've had quite a bit of experience with our work 3.0L Patrol, faulty Air Intake Sensors, Faulty EGR Valves etc etc etc. Our work patrol is 100%%%%% stock and has never left the bitchmen. I feel personally that blaming third party add ons/components is an easy out for some of Nissans bad design flaws in their early versions of the 3.0L TD. All MHO of course !! ;-)
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FollowupID: 362633

Reply By: Gossy - Wednesday, Apr 06, 2005 at 16:55

Wednesday, Apr 06, 2005 at 16:55
a foot end of a black stocking wrapped over the entry does the same - and it's free.
I went to replace my air filter after doing the Simpson desert the other month. All I did was blow it out and it's as good as new, so I put it back in! Not one moth, twig etc etc.
AnswerID: 105423

Follow Up By: Wizard1 - Thursday, Apr 07, 2005 at 15:38

Thursday, Apr 07, 2005 at 15:38
After the endless replies and feedback in this thread yours is the only one that makes sense. Cheap yet effective, I like it............
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FollowupID: 362687

Reply By: NedKelly - Thursday, Apr 07, 2005 at 14:24

Thursday, Apr 07, 2005 at 14:24
I have one of the Donaldson cyclone ones. Where do you get these sock style filters and how much??
AnswerID: 105559

Follow Up By: Gossy - Thursday, Apr 07, 2005 at 15:44

Thursday, Apr 07, 2005 at 15:44
It's just the foot end of a stocking. Mine has been on for 12 months with no holes in the material as yet.
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FollowupID: 362688

Reply By: Troopy22 - Thursday, Apr 07, 2005 at 17:08

Thursday, Apr 07, 2005 at 17:08
Another option canvassed recently on the yahoo lcool site is the Donaldson Top Spin Pre-cleaner. It comes in two sizes - A 200-450 CFM and 90-200CFM. One weighs 1Kg the other .4Kg.

Check out the following download - http://www.donaldsonfilters.com.au/uploads/TopSpin%20Pre-cleaner.pdf
AnswerID: 105582

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