Cryovac Machine Purchase

Submitted: Saturday, Apr 16, 2005 at 10:44
ThreadID: 22106 Views:20549 Replies:10 FollowUps:14
This Thread has been Archived
Gday all
I have searched the archives and found that cryovacing meat is the way to go.
I realise you can find a butcher to do it but I was wondering if anybody has purchased their own machine and where did you buy it from.
I have tried Big W, Grace Bros, Myer (all online), Danoz don't have it at the moment, Amazon online to no avail.
I have emailed E-Vac in Qld but they are a supplier and don't seem to sell to the public.
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

80scruiser

P.S- I have SWMBO out shopping on a special mission looking for one now.
Back Expand Un-Read 0 Moderator

Reply By: 80scruiser - Saturday, Apr 16, 2005 at 10:55

Saturday, Apr 16, 2005 at 10:55
Just an update.
I have found them on Amazon.com but any further info locally would be better.
Thanks
AnswerID: 107001

Reply By: Member - Jimbo (VIC) - Saturday, Apr 16, 2005 at 11:26

Saturday, Apr 16, 2005 at 11:26
80,

Most of these units are vacuum sealing machines, not cryvaccing machines.

The cryvac process is to vacuum seal the meat, briefly dunk it in a hot water bath at 80 C to kill the surface bacteria and then dunk it in an ice bath to get it cold again (I've seen it done at the meatworks). This is why the meat can be kept under refrigeration for many weeks, and with some large cuts, months.

Simply vacuum sealing meat will make it last longer than just putting it in a plastic bag, but nothing like the life you may be expecting from professionally cryvacced meat.

Cheers,

Jim.
AnswerID: 107003

Follow Up By: Member - Jimbo (VIC) - Saturday, Apr 16, 2005 at 11:37

Saturday, Apr 16, 2005 at 11:37
Forgot one thing.

I saw a unit at the Danoz shop for $270. I reckon it's easier and cheaper in the long run to get the butcher to do it (just make sure he has a cryvac machine).
0
FollowupID: 363983

Follow Up By: Shaker - Sunday, Apr 17, 2005 at 11:50

Sunday, Apr 17, 2005 at 11:50
Not too sure about the heat side of things Jimbo, read this!

Proper packaging is absolutely essential for quality control and shelf life. Our exclusive vacuum-sealed Cryovac packaging system uses an industrial strength barrier that keeps our steaks, fish and other favorites juicy in our customers' freezers.

All sides of the product are visible through the packaging, so you'll have no "hidden fat" surprises.

When you bring heat to meat it cooks -- our Cryovac packaging is cold sealed, so that the meat is not cooked in the packaging process and is at the peak of freshness for you!

All products are portion controlled, so that you can have the amount you choose, with very little waste.

0
FollowupID: 364079

Follow Up By: Member - Jimbo (VIC) - Sunday, Apr 17, 2005 at 12:50

Sunday, Apr 17, 2005 at 12:50
Shaker,

Where did that quote come from? It is interesting reading. I note it talks about keeping food in the freezer, cryvaccing is designed to keep in refrigeration.

The process of hot dipping the meat is very quick and ceratinly doesn't cook it at all. Things may, of course, have changed and there may be a new process I'm not aware of.

Cheers,

Jim.
0
FollowupID: 364084

Follow Up By: Member - Oskar (Bris) - Sunday, Apr 17, 2005 at 13:20

Sunday, Apr 17, 2005 at 13:20
Just to add alittle extra info....
My brother-in-law works for Australian Meat Holdings (AMH) a major meat packer and exporter in Ipswich.
He explained to me that the purpose of cryovac-ing is to kill off about 90% of the bacteria present in the product.
The remaining 5-10% slowly putrifies the meat making it more tasty and tender.
They use alternating hot and cold processes to achieve the bacteria reduction.
That is why the process is not a permanent one as is canning etc.
The product is best consumed within 8 weeks or so, but tastes best, and is nice and tender, after about 6 weeks in the fridge (after all the little rotters have done their work).
As Jimbo has said, vac sealing is not cryovac-ing.
Oskar
0
FollowupID: 364087

Follow Up By: Member - Jimbo (VIC) - Sunday, Apr 17, 2005 at 13:36

Sunday, Apr 17, 2005 at 13:36
Oskar,

That's where I saw the process in action at the AMH meatworks in Townsville. Apparently the process has not changed.

Cheers,

Jim
0
FollowupID: 364088

Follow Up By: Member - Davoe (WA) - Sunday, Apr 17, 2005 at 18:23

Sunday, Apr 17, 2005 at 18:23
A breif dunk into 80deg water would have very little effect on bacteria lode to kill most bacteria as has been claimed the immersion would have to be long enough to visually degrade the meat. Remaining 5-10% slowly putrifies - As if, Meat that has been left cryovacced too long really stinks this is because the lack of air suppresses the usual spoilage bacteria (pseudamonis) and allows anaerobic bacteria to grow which give off different smells. One anaerobic bacteria is botulism that can grow if cryovacced meat is left unrefridgerated and because pseudamonis wont grow you may not even know it is about to kill you.
The tenderization process is caused by the blood sugars converting to lactic acid because the animal is dead aqnd there is no oxygen in the blood, this acid breaks down the cells which release enzymes contained within which act in a digestion manner on the meat making it more tender and lowering the ph of meat making it resistant to bacteria this process has been around for years and is known by most as "hanging" As I recall the hot and cold dip is to give better shrinkage to the bags - nothing else
0
FollowupID: 364111

Follow Up By: Member - Jimbo (VIC) - Sunday, Apr 17, 2005 at 21:10

Sunday, Apr 17, 2005 at 21:10
Interesting thoughts Davoe and some of what you said makes sense.

However,

Why would Australian Meat Holdings (AMH), with over 40 meatworks Australia wide and killing hundreds of beasts daily at each site, be cryvaccing meat in the method I have suggested if it was just for the purpose of shrinking a bag.

I stand by my statement that the heating and cooling is to eliminate surface bacteria and thus prolong the life of the meat whilst it "ages" as you so rightly described.

I don't mean to insult you, but the people who demonstrated and described this theory and system were eminently qualified. You may well be as well.

I don't mean to question your authority on the subject, but what is your experience in the field (from your comments you clearly know something).

I am always willing to learn.

Cheers,

Jim/
0
FollowupID: 364129

Follow Up By: Member - Davoe (WA) - Sunday, Apr 17, 2005 at 21:39

Sunday, Apr 17, 2005 at 21:39
8 pluss years as a butcher and advanced certiicate in food technology combined with quality control work for a small goods company including bacterial quantity and type testing both on sliced meat surfaces and product prep surfaces. Thing to realze there is many different types of bacteria both aerobic and anaerobic, gram positive and gram negative food poisining bacteria that produce toxins and those that are introduced and poison in the gut, those that protect them selves in spores (clostridium botulinum and baccilus cereus) one size (a bit of heat after suction packing) does not make a steralized product
0
FollowupID: 364137

Reply By: Sand Man (SA) - Saturday, Apr 16, 2005 at 11:39

Saturday, Apr 16, 2005 at 11:39
Retrovision Stores throughout Australia sell a Sunbeam brand. About $220
Bill


I'm diagonally parked in a parallel Universe!

Member
My Profile  My Blog  My Position  Send Message

AnswerID: 107004

Follow Up By: Sand Man (SA) - Saturday, Apr 16, 2005 at 11:46

Saturday, Apr 16, 2005 at 11:46
href="http://www.sunbeam.com.au/products/product_details.cfm?rec_Sunbeam Linkid=402&sec_id=21

Bill


I'm diagonally parked in a parallel Universe!

Member
My Profile  My Blog  My Position  Send Message

0
FollowupID: 363984

Follow Up By: Sand Man (SA) - Saturday, Apr 16, 2005 at 11:48

Saturday, Apr 16, 2005 at 11:48
Try Again:-(

Sunbeam Link

Bill


I'm diagonally parked in a parallel Universe!

Member
My Profile  My Blog  My Position  Send Message

0
FollowupID: 363986

Reply By: Member - Stan (VIC) - Saturday, Apr 16, 2005 at 12:00

Saturday, Apr 16, 2005 at 12:00
80scruiser,

http://www.vacuseal.com.au/ is probably what you are after.
AnswerID: 107011

Reply By: GeeTee - Saturday, Apr 16, 2005 at 15:53

Saturday, Apr 16, 2005 at 15:53
I"ll also recomend the vacuseal. The operate out of Queensland and are great to deal with. Will send supplies of consumables to you on your travels. We do meats, dried mango and I vacuum seal my beef jerky as well. Great product.

GeeTee
AnswerID: 107041

Reply By: Member - Brian (WA) - Saturday, Apr 16, 2005 at 15:55

Saturday, Apr 16, 2005 at 15:55
Hi I have had one for a couple of yrs.Been doing some meat this morning as going
away next week.Doing it myself I can do the size portions I want.When I was after
one they were hard to get.Ended up getting a Italian one. Got it at cost price
as the shop I enquired got one in and had a practice to see it they were a
viable item to stock in.Anyway I like mine.
Cheers Brian
AnswerID: 107042

Reply By: GeeTee - Saturday, Apr 16, 2005 at 15:58

Saturday, Apr 16, 2005 at 15:58
Sorry I just re read your post. They Vacuseal do deal direct ( to the NT anyway) and will have one of their machines to you in quick time. From memory it only took 2 days to the NT. We have the Genius and it does all we need.

GeeTee
AnswerID: 107043

Reply By: Bob&Deb - Sunday, Apr 17, 2005 at 08:24

Sunday, Apr 17, 2005 at 08:24
G`day all
Probably this is a stupid question, but ,can you cryovac stuff that is already frozen? Or is the process of hot then cold immersion prior to cryovacing the best way to go?
Regards Bob
AnswerID: 107083

Follow Up By: Trev88 - Sunday, Apr 17, 2005 at 10:11

Sunday, Apr 17, 2005 at 10:11
If you vacum (cryovac is a brand name not a proccess all the hot dip does it to shrink the bag no other value) frozen product in a domestic unit you will not have the pressure to mold the bag in to all the air pockets around the frozen item. It will still extend the fridge life and even the freezer life (no freezer burn). but is is best to vacum seal the item when fresh then freeze it if you are going away fro extended periods. This method helps keep the fridge temp for a few extra days. When I started camping i would freezer all the vacumed meat and the put ice in it and as loong as I keeped the ice up it was fine. I did this fro 4 weeks and the last pack was fine but where we were there was plenty of bag ice available. The first pack lasted 3 days without need for ice. Vacuming sucks out the air which is one of the componants that is required for normal growth of bacteria all other factors (mosture ect) are still present so if the seal goes on the bag and it is sticky at all the stick or slim is the bacteria and it should not be consumed. As for a domestic unit or getting the butcher to do it it all comes down to experience. If the butcher is a regular 4WD adventurer then he has a understanding of what and how you will use it. In this case he will more than likely have heavier bags which do not seal or vacum better they resist being periced more.

My advice buy a domestic unit and experiment to get the best job for you then you could also use it to pack other items that take up bulk (cloths blankets etc) down side they are noisy and take a longer time to build up to presure.

Have fun

regards
Trevor
0
FollowupID: 364074

Follow Up By: Member - Jimbo (VIC) - Sunday, Apr 17, 2005 at 10:25

Sunday, Apr 17, 2005 at 10:25
Trev,

You said "all the hot dip does it to shrink the bag no other value"

See my post above for an explanation of what it actually does.

"The first pack lasted 3 days without need for ice". This is a vey dangerous practice, I strongly recommend against it. Warmth and moisture are two main things that cause bacteria.

Trust me, I speak from many years in the food industry. A health inspector would close an establishment down if they were found to be storing raw meat unrefrigerated.

Cheers,

Jim.
0
FollowupID: 364075

Follow Up By: Shaker - Sunday, Apr 17, 2005 at 18:38

Sunday, Apr 17, 2005 at 18:38
Jimbo .. .got that info from a US raw meat packaging company website.

0
FollowupID: 364113

Reply By: 80scruiser - Sunday, Apr 17, 2005 at 11:45

Sunday, Apr 17, 2005 at 11:45
Thank you to all.
This is a very interesting subject with several points of view.
I think I will purchase a vacuum sealing machine as I will be able to use it around the house as well, and do some experimenting with it.
I did extensive searching of the internet last night and found several items on testing and reviews of different machines. I will experiment and maybe we could all have a further discussion later on in the year.

At worst the meats life will be extended marginally and as it sits in the engel it shouldn't leak through the plastic bags like happened to me once before and contaminated the rest of the fridge.

Stay tuned for further discussions.

80scruiser
AnswerID: 107093

Follow Up By: turbopete - Sunday, Apr 17, 2005 at 13:57

Sunday, Apr 17, 2005 at 13:57
BIG W have the sunbeam on sale for $188
0
FollowupID: 364089

Reply By: boggle - Tuesday, Apr 19, 2005 at 22:05

Tuesday, Apr 19, 2005 at 22:05
i ended up getting one from chandlers and the brand is sunbeam,seems to be working okay
AnswerID: 107459

Sponsored Links

Popular Products (14)