Will the explorer explode.

Submitted: Friday, May 06, 2005 at 19:43
ThreadID: 22724 Views:2994 Replies:8 FollowUps:26
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Gday all

Bloody ford dealer rip off merchants.

All right went down to ford after work today as the explorer has a dieseling sound coming from the front of the engine when I start it up, but it only does it occasionally. Now I know what it is.
The front timing chain, the explorer engines have 2 one at the front and one at the back.
So the ford man confirmed my suspicions and he is like yeah mate minimum $2500 for just the front one or $5000 min for both and they would need it for a week. ‘Yeah right get out of town, what are the chains gold plated or something”. So no way in hell I am giving it to ford to do.

This leaves 2 options
1. I am going to go talk to a family friend who is an auto mechanic and see what he will do it for if I get the parts.
2. Being a apprentice mechanical fitter I could do it my self
But I don’t have the time and really cannot be stuffed spending my weekend pulling half the motor apart if I can get it done at a reasonable price.

Do not mind paying for it if it’s a family friend and if I decide to give him a hand he will probably knock some $$ off the job and being in a workshop will make it quicker and easer.

It only happens 1 in 4 start’s but it has been getting worse over the last 5000k’s. Am going to check it out again tomorrow I hope I was wrong and it turns out to be something a bit cheaper. But when a petrol makes a diesel sound it is never good.

Has any other explorer owner had this problem or sound coming from their engine?
I know there are some on this forum
Or can anyone offer advice.

Thanks. Brendan

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Reply By: Michael ( Moss Vale NSW) - Friday, May 06, 2005 at 20:08

Friday, May 06, 2005 at 20:08
leave the keys in it in george street in front of the cinema's with the engine running..
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AnswerID: 110072

Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Friday, May 06, 2005 at 20:48

Friday, May 06, 2005 at 20:48
I agree.

... what 1/2 the price of the car to change 2 chains?

I hear they dont float as well.
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Follow Up By: Exploder - Friday, May 06, 2005 at 20:49

Friday, May 06, 2005 at 20:49
Gday

Michael thankyou for you your well thought out response. I will take it under advisement but I do not live in NSW.

Seriously I do not want to get rid of it as I have got it just the way I like it at the moment it is a good 4WD if you know how to use it.

I almost brought a patrol maybe next time.

Also I believe that you should never pay out on another man’s automobile. I am sure this is not what you meant by you comment and it was just a friendly joking around.

If not remember I have plenty of Nissan pay outs to.

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Follow Up By: Exploder - Friday, May 06, 2005 at 21:05

Friday, May 06, 2005 at 21:05
Gday Truckster

1/2 the price of the car for 2 chains, could get more for it than that bleep easy.
Also I do not wish to get rid of it I like it.
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Follow Up By: Michael ( Moss Vale NSW) - Saturday, May 07, 2005 at 09:07

Saturday, May 07, 2005 at 09:07
Exploder, lighten up, i wasnt having a go about your vehicle, everyone is entitled to buy what they want. An yes i was light heartedly making a comment regards why spend the money,, you will never get it back, cheers!!! Michael P.S. interesting that your screen name is Exploder!!!
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Saturday, May 07, 2005 at 14:36

Saturday, May 07, 2005 at 14:36
who said get rid of it, search back and see what happened to Baz' one.. and that was after 18mths of 4wd not even working!
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Follow Up By: Michael ( Moss Vale NSW) - Saturday, May 07, 2005 at 14:55

Saturday, May 07, 2005 at 14:55
You can buy a lot of earplugs for 5 grand.. LOL.. sorry i'm no help!!!! Michael
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Follow Up By: Exploder - Saturday, May 07, 2005 at 15:48

Saturday, May 07, 2005 at 15:48
All right I am all chilled out now. Michael yes it is interesting, maybe I was asking for it. Earplugs can get them for free form work, I will put it on the list of thing’s to try.

Like your thinking if you can’t hear it it’s not there.

Truckster. Must of misinterpreted your post.> yes I have spoken to baz about his explorer ( I have decided to stay clear of deep water crossings). My 4wd system is fine and apart from the timing I am happy with the explorer.

Cheers
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FollowupID: 366748

Reply By: Charlie - Friday, May 06, 2005 at 20:09

Friday, May 06, 2005 at 20:09
I've heard my Suzuki V6 can have timing chain troubels but it's susposed to be 11 hours labour to change, does it have hydraulic tappets because often get noisey once your due for an oil change.
Good luck
Charlie
AnswerID: 110073

Follow Up By: Exploder - Friday, May 06, 2005 at 21:17

Friday, May 06, 2005 at 21:17
Gday Charlie

Thanks for your reply Charlie The price is just the standard ford dealer con job.

As for the tappets just changed the oil 10W30 but am going to look more closely but the sound is all wrong for tappet’s, but I am hoping it could be something simple like that. The car is mint apart from this.


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FollowupID: 366667

Follow Up By: GaryInOz (Vic) - Friday, May 06, 2005 at 21:34

Friday, May 06, 2005 at 21:34
I'd be trying 20W50 oil, more viscous at temp, may shut it up if it is tappets. I would also be looking at the chain adjusters. If they are kept in tension by hydraulic pressure the heavier oil may help too. Othe possibility blocked oil gallery to the adjusters? The Key is that most of the US is in a cooler climate than Australia, and the oils ar probably spec'ed for their temp range.

Once you get it running quietly, sell it (even if you want to buy another later model one).

Do a bit of reaearch on it from the US sites and see if it is a common problem with that year, and if there have been any warranty fixes made available (leverage aainst the Australian dealers). I think most vehicles in the US have a 5-10 year drivetrain warranty so any probs will be well known.
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Follow Up By: Exploder - Friday, May 06, 2005 at 23:03

Friday, May 06, 2005 at 23:03
Gday garyINOz Thanks for your response

I think that 20W50 would be a bit thick for This engine. Thicker oil may drown out the sound but you also risk starving some bearings of enough oil and hotter internal running temp also hard starting. Thicker is not always better.
I might try the penrite 10W50 next and see if that makes a difference.

Yes it is a common problem with this modal and I thought it did have a recall on it, which I will look into more.

I do not believe in selling it with a potentially expensive problem like that.

Somebody did this to one of my cosines, they put thicker oil in the commodore to
Drown out the noise of a bent crankshaft. Every time it went over 4000 rpm the engine would gam and stop. $9000 rebuild that is just a low trick to pull on a person.

I am not a con man and would not sell something with a expensive problem that I know could potently strand somebody in a remote location. I just would not feel right about it

I know I will get a mate to sell it for me. haha
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FollowupID: 366684

Reply By: TheUndertaker - Friday, May 06, 2005 at 21:16

Friday, May 06, 2005 at 21:16
A. how many ks you got up.
B. what year / mth explorer.
C. yours the manual or auto.
D. where the efen hell do you get the notion that you have a timing chain at the front and back from , v6 4lt,
E. check your catalyic convertor when cold , rattles ???? stops when hot ,sounds like donk about to blow ,, noise at 2000rpm cold disapears when hot ,,
F. guess what ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

loose timing chain tension adjustment bolt .
G. 1.5hr by ford or 5hr by any body that is capable of changing a light bulb.
AnswerID: 110083

Follow Up By: Exploder - Friday, May 06, 2005 at 21:48

Friday, May 06, 2005 at 21:48
Gday undertaker. Thanks for your response

A.how many ks you got up.= 11000k’s

B.what year / mth explorer.= end of 1997

C.yours the manual or auto.= 5 speed auto

D.where the efen hell do you get the notion that you have a timing chain at the front and back from , v6 4lt,……= You just do don’t ask me why (German engineering I guess) the front one is the only one that gets the problem thou between 100 000 and 160 000K’s not on all explores but, a bit like the gu gearbox. It is only the 1997 to mid 1999 that could have this problem.

E. check your catalyic convertor when cold , rattles ???? stops when hot ,sounds like donk about to blow ,, noise at 2000rpm cold disapears when hot =The cat and entire exhaust system is solid but will look at it again.

loose timing chain tension adjustment bolt .
G. 1.5hr by ford or 5hr by any body that is capable of changing a light bulb.

Yes I do know about the chain tension problem. Was hoping that this was the case but the ford man was quick to dismiss it when I brought it up. He said it would solve it for a bit but the chain is the problem. I think he is just trying to screw me the 5g’s for the chain but it ant going to happen.

I will have it in the mechanics workshop tomorrow morning that will be one of the first tings we look at. Did yours have this problem?

Did the ajustment fix it

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FollowupID: 366673

Reply By: Lone Wolf - Friday, May 06, 2005 at 21:17

Friday, May 06, 2005 at 21:17
"2. Being a apprentice mechanical fitter I could do it my self
But I don’t have the time and really cannot be stuffed spending my weekend pulling half the motor apart if I can get it done at a reasonable price. "

What, not even for $5000.00?

I'm not a mechanic, and I never wok on the mechanicals of my vehicles, but at the price you've been quoted, I would most certainly be getting another opinion, or have some assistance in doing it myself.

Wolfie
AnswerID: 110084

Follow Up By: Exploder - Friday, May 06, 2005 at 22:07

Friday, May 06, 2005 at 22:07
Gday Wolfie

$5000 was the ford price and I am not getting them to do it. Just wanted the manufactures opinion on what it could be. I intend to get the opinion of another ford dealer also.

I can get it done a lot cheaper by a family friend and if I give him a hand he will probably nock some $$ of it as well.

Being the timing is not something you want to make a mistake with and I can do it, but I would feal better having someone there who is experienced to do it or assist me so I don’t forget something obvious as it is going back together.

We are talking about a lot of money if I bugged it up.

Now to sort out those V16 twin turbo MTU diesels.The suction manifold connects to where
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FollowupID: 366675

Reply By: TheUndertaker - Friday, May 06, 2005 at 21:45

Friday, May 06, 2005 at 21:45
Exploder ,2/3 replies up you say you just changed your oil to 10/30 wt .....READ YOUR HAND BOOK ,, 10/50 you live in aus ,drive a canadian/spanish/ built /yankee designed vehicle ,,READ the hand book ,,AUSTRALIA 10/50wt OIL.
AnswerID: 110088

Follow Up By: Exploder - Friday, May 06, 2005 at 22:19

Friday, May 06, 2005 at 22:19
Undertaker

Handbook states 5W30 ford motor oil, has now been replaced/Superseded by 10W30 for motor oil (Ford recommendation)
Penrite recommend HPR 10 or 10W50 oil
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FollowupID: 366676

Reply By: TheUndertaker - Friday, May 06, 2005 at 22:04

Friday, May 06, 2005 at 22:04
Someone is having a major lend of you ,Explorer , THERE IS NO REAR TIMING CHAIN , german design ,canadian+spanish built ,ford usa financed and marketed,biggest selling 4x4 world wide [ watch the toyota boys scream foul ] ,,, THERE IS NO REAR TIMING CHAIN .
AnswerID: 110094

Follow Up By: Exploder - Friday, May 06, 2005 at 22:33

Friday, May 06, 2005 at 22:33
Undertaker the term (German engineering) means that something is A. Over engineered or B. a stupid idea.

As for it not having 2 timing chains I have read it has 2 and also was tolled by the ford service advised when I spoke to him. Now why would he bullshi* about that.

That sort of thing could cost him his job. But I will look into it more it did not sound right to me when I first read it ether.

Where did you find this info?

Thanks
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FollowupID: 366677

Follow Up By: Utemad - Friday, May 06, 2005 at 22:39

Friday, May 06, 2005 at 22:39
This guy reckons there is 4.

4 chains

This one has a list of all 1997 Exoplorer timing gear bits. It lists 4 for the overhead cam model (all automatics have this engine from memory).
Front, Jackshaft To Cam
Front, Crank To Balance Shaft
Front, Crank To Jackshaft
Rear

list of chains

There was also mention of the timng chains outlasting the life of the vehicle. I really would be surprised if that was true but you never know.
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FollowupID: 366679

Follow Up By: Utemad - Friday, May 06, 2005 at 22:44

Friday, May 06, 2005 at 22:44
Must be a really really hard job too. As the 4 chains only cost US$195.41 and they were only going to replace 2 for AU$5000!!!
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Follow Up By: Exploder - Friday, May 06, 2005 at 23:31

Friday, May 06, 2005 at 23:31
Gday Utemad

The $5000 is probably just the dealership bulshi* price

Thanks for the link’s I will have a look at them

As for the timing chain outlasting the engine possible. The chain should be good for a hell of a lot more than 110000 thou.
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FollowupID: 366690

Follow Up By: fisho64 - Saturday, May 07, 2005 at 00:57

Saturday, May 07, 2005 at 00:57
exploder is it 11000 or 110000 k's? as you have mentioned both?
"Dont pay out on another mans car" arent they all? thats like saying never shag another mans daughter (and stay a virgin!) either way its not increasing the resale of exploders!!
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FollowupID: 366696

Follow Up By: Exploder - Saturday, May 07, 2005 at 01:12

Saturday, May 07, 2005 at 01:12
It is 110 000K's. Sorry about that.

It not increasing the resale value.
Bugger


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FollowupID: 366698

Reply By: TheUndertaker - Friday, May 06, 2005 at 22:46

Friday, May 06, 2005 at 22:46
Exploder ,for the last time ,THERE IS NO REAR TIMING CHAIN IN THE FORD EXPLORER 4LT V6 AUTO,,, TAKE IT AS GOSPEL FROM SOMEONE WHO HAS HAD THE FORD SINCE NEW 97. end of story and an apology to forum for shouting.
AnswerID: 110102

Follow Up By: D-Jack - Saturday, May 07, 2005 at 00:37

Saturday, May 07, 2005 at 00:37
Undertaker,

So what you're really saying is THERE IS NO REAR TIMING CHAIN IN THE FORD EXPLORER 4LT V6 AUTO. I take it by that you mean there is a front timing chain but there is not not a timing chain to the negative? Got you loud and clear (the first time!)

D-Jack
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Follow Up By: Exploder - Saturday, May 07, 2005 at 00:58

Saturday, May 07, 2005 at 00:58
Gday all

The following was taken off USA sites including a ford part’s supplier and they all talk about a rear timing chain. just so you know why i was saying it had a rear/back.

I just had the timing chains replaced on my 98 explorer at 135,000 kilometers. It took them 3 weeks to do. Lucky it was under the standard 3 month warranty and it cost me nothing (usually $6,000AUD).

engine noise on take off, was timing chains front and REAR chains, they pulled engine to get to rear chain.

It is a superb vehicle, reliable and a joy to drive! If you do your research carefully, you will find The V6 has a ridiculous timing chain design, with one in the front of the engine and one in the BACK of the engine, and they cause noise and problems. To replace the rear timing chain, the engine has to be pulled out

Timing chain, Explorer REAR - 4.0L SOHC
Engine - Camshaft & timing - Camshaft & timing - Timing chain
Timing chain, Explorer, Front, Jackshaft To Cam - 4.0L SOHC
Engine - Camshaft & timing - Camshaft & timing - Timing chain

Timing chain, Explorer Front, Crank To Balance Shaft - 4.0L SOHC

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FollowupID: 366697

Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Saturday, May 07, 2005 at 14:52

Saturday, May 07, 2005 at 14:52
Interesting.. I just called a Ford dealer this morning and asked about replacing both chains, they laughed at me.
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FollowupID: 366741

Follow Up By: Exploder - Saturday, May 07, 2005 at 16:08

Saturday, May 07, 2005 at 16:08
Gday

Tructster. Front/Back I don’t give a Fuc* where they are or how many it has all I was saying is from what I have read and what ford has told me.

If it does not have one why are ford part’s suppliers listing it and people are talking about them on US sites?

Timing Chain, Explorer REAR
Timing Chain, Explorer FRONT

All I can say is if I does not have one I will be down at the dealership where I got the information demanding some pretty good Fuc*ing explanations as to why they were trying to charge me to replace it.

Seya.


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FollowupID: 366750

Follow Up By: 80scruiser - Monday, May 09, 2005 at 12:45

Monday, May 09, 2005 at 12:45
Hi Exploder
As an owner of a reputable mechanical workshop I can tell you the automatic explorer has overhead cams and therefore multiple chains. The manuals are an over head valve type and hence a different engine.
We haven't done one for a while but I am sure there is a modification out from Ford. It looks like a bic pen you place up the tensioner gallery which stops the tensioner falling backwards when it looses oil pressure once switched off. Going back a few years and the memory is going but I am sure its right.
Definetely several chains on the auto model.
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FollowupID: 366941

Follow Up By: Moz - Monday, May 09, 2005 at 14:53

Monday, May 09, 2005 at 14:53
Definitely has rear timing chains on the overhead cam model.
A mate had to rebuild one for a Ford dealership who found it too hard.
This mate knows his trade and he said it was a nightmare.
There are no marks on the chain sprockets to set up the timing.
He had to borrow all the special tools from the dealer and the manual
which included a misprint which was corrected by a subsequent dealer
letter. And even then it took a couple of days to build.
Chances are the $5000 is to cover either past mistakes on other
vehicles or cover the potential problems on this job.
It is likely they have just replaced tensioners in the past
and it is not the problem and they have had to pull the engine twice.
So now they take the safer option and give you "worst case" quote.
My advice - live with noise or start saving because the dealer probably
has seen more problems than anyone else.

Moz
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FollowupID: 366961

Follow Up By: 80scruiser - Monday, May 09, 2005 at 16:02

Monday, May 09, 2005 at 16:02
Leave them to long and it will go bang
Why do you think they are called Ford Exploders.
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FollowupID: 366977

Reply By: Exploder - Monday, May 09, 2005 at 22:20

Monday, May 09, 2005 at 22:20
Thank you both for your replies.

I was sure it had a rear timing chain for resins already stated but thank you for confirming it. I did not want to be an arrogant prick and tell people they were wrong as everybody put forward some good points and I was not 100% sure ether

Yes Moz I could tell by looking at the engine it would be a basted of a job, that is why I was not to keen on doing it myself, the family friend I took it to said the same thing as ford. (But he was not familiar with the engine) so he did not give me a price but it would be $$ ( Not as much as ford thou.)

I agree the dealer is the best to see to diagnose the problem especially with the explorer as they are not as well know as say a patrol. From what I understand the tennsioners will fix it short term, but the chains are weak/faulty and the replacement is a lot tougher. I ant happy with the $5000 price still seams a bit steep.

Luckily chains are not know for giving up the go, so I should be right for a bit yet

Every time I get close to affording a dirt bike I have to fork out big on something else, It is starting to *iss me off.

Seya.
AnswerID: 110547

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