Tyre search over, suspension hunt begins.

Submitted: Thursday, May 12, 2005 at 19:19
ThreadID: 22934 Views:3521 Replies:11 FollowUps:8
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Hi

Now that the tyre search is over for my 99 TD Jackaroo, time to talk suspension. I phoned Pedders for a start, they quoted $383 to supply and install h/duty rear springs which would give a 50mm lift, and to wind up torsion bars to get me a 40mm lift.

They wanted $350 per pair of foam cell shockers, h/duty of course and said that there is no reason they would not last the life of the vehicle. Fitting was about $150 all round I think. Not expecting life long performance but have a couple of questions.

Would anyone else recommend Pedders over a 4wd accessory outlet like TJM, OL or 4wd systems? My thinking is that while Pedders are probably over priced, the 4wd shops are probably more over priced.

Any thoughts on their shock absorbers. Said they are made by Pedders in Victoria factory, (and Pedders lower grade shockers are also rebadged as munro or gabriel one of the two)

Is there a thought that foam cells are better than gas? From experience?

Would the Pedders rear springs be comparable to those of XGS or OME being that they are just springs?

any thoughts/experiences appreciated. Haven't been quoted from 4wd shops yet buy the total for 4x shocks, 2 x rear springs and fitting comes to about $1220 without bargaining at Pedders.

Thanks

D-Jack
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Reply By: Wayne (NSW) - Thursday, May 12, 2005 at 19:30

Thursday, May 12, 2005 at 19:30
D Jack,

Before you hand over all your hard earn money, ask the suspension sale person what type of 4wd do they drive and if there is a vehicle with similar set up to what you want that you could take for a test drive.

Might also ask what experience dose the fitter and sale person have in regards to driving in the places that you might want to take your vehicle. Chances are that the people that own and drive a 4wd would be able to advise you rather than just selling what they have on hand.

Wayne
AnswerID: 111045

Reply By: 80scruiser - Thursday, May 12, 2005 at 19:39

Thursday, May 12, 2005 at 19:39
Get king springs and koni shocks. Can't go wrong.
AnswerID: 111048

Follow Up By: D-Jack - Thursday, May 12, 2005 at 21:11

Thursday, May 12, 2005 at 21:11
Where are they easily and cheaply sourced from?
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FollowupID: 367501

Follow Up By: 80scruiser - Friday, May 13, 2005 at 08:11

Friday, May 13, 2005 at 08:11
Koni front part no 30-1565 $219.80 ea retail
Koni rear part no 30-1566 $216.87 ea retail
Koni have a standard price across the boards. You may be able to screw somebody down but I go by their set prices.

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FollowupID: 367553

Reply By: Jason B - Thursday, May 12, 2005 at 19:49

Thursday, May 12, 2005 at 19:49
D-Jack,

I've been chasing prices (and advice) to up-garde 2004/5 Dual-Cab Hilux from standard to suit the full bar work, winch, dual batteries, long range tank, camping gear etc.

With new shocks all round, new torsion bar (front) and new springs(rear) all fitted I've been quoted from $1650 to $2200 from Off-Road shops(ARB, TJM, OL etc) to give you some idea.

I've found in the past it's not normally worth trying to get out of it cheap. It normally causes more grief than it's worth, and fails in the worst possible place.

Regards,

Jason
AnswerID: 111053

Follow Up By: D-Jack - Thursday, May 12, 2005 at 21:13

Thursday, May 12, 2005 at 21:13
Thanks Jason, but that was kind of my question. Do we discount Pedders for a reason or because they are simply not a 4wd shop? They quoted a further $600 EACH for torsion bar replacements, so doesn't particularly appear to be cheap. Makes a total replacement of around $2400.

Just asking

D-Jack
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FollowupID: 367503

Follow Up By: Jason B - Friday, May 13, 2005 at 15:22

Friday, May 13, 2005 at 15:22
D-Jack,

Took the day off and looked around at more suspension shops. While I was out I had Redcliff Springs in QLD wind the torsion bars up to help with the extra weight I have on the front, it's helped raise it by about 25mm which is back to were it was before the extra's went on(It's only a short term fix).

While I was there he suggusted an EFS up-grade, which would suit my requirements. The cost was arond $1600 (fitted). They suggusted it was good value for money and compaired well agianst OME kits. They also said alot of the clubs around the area are very happy with the EFS systems and had no suspension trouble on a Cape trip last year(food for thought).

I asked the question about Pedders etc. They said the back up and network of Pedders was pretty good (simular to OME and EFS) . He did not mention that they had heard of any compliants about them (they don't normally sell Pedders).

I guess it comes down to who is going to most helpfull with fitting and after sales service in the areas we are going to travel. Redcliff Springs said if you ring up from where ever you may be they will get the parts of what ever brand I choose. They did mention that EFS do have a dealer in Weipa.

I will most likely end up with EFS arfter today's discussions with half a dozen different blokes and some friends in clubs.

Regards,

Jason
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FollowupID: 367589

Reply By: Patroleum - Thursday, May 12, 2005 at 20:11

Thursday, May 12, 2005 at 20:11
D-Jack.

Mate i'm with 80scruiser with the King Springs, Koni Shocks combo

I have an 80 and fitted this combo, fantastic.
A good mate of mine has a 99 Jack SE 3.5, we fitted King rear springs, wound up the torsion bars and fitted Koni front shocks (Originals still in rear) Great.

King&Koni, tuff as nails, nice ride & adjustable.

Greg
AnswerID: 111065

Reply By: Outbacktourer - Thursday, May 12, 2005 at 21:02

Thursday, May 12, 2005 at 21:02
D-Jack,

You may find what works on an 80scruiser or Patroleum may not go so well on a D-Jack.

IMHO Koni operational characteristics are not well suited to torsion bar IFS set-ups which are much better serviced by the Bilstein method of operation. No problems with Koni in the rear, in fact this is an ideal combination.

In relation to springs, it depends on what you are trying to achieve. For a slight raise in ride height and increased (variable) load capactity Polyairs with the standard springs are a good option on the Jack. The torsion bar wind up is a simple DIY procedure jacking the vehicle and rotating adjusting bolt located approx under front seats, checking bump stop clearance when lowered off the jack..

AnswerID: 111081

Follow Up By: D-Jack - Thursday, May 12, 2005 at 21:10

Thursday, May 12, 2005 at 21:10
Thanks for that, something to toss up when speaking to the salesmen. As far as the springs, I do want to replace the rears. I only tow a 800 kg camper and with correct weight distribibution rear end doesn't sag much at all. I feel that by raising with polyairs it will make too firmer ride in the rear. I also want a 40mm lift in the front, don't think the polyairs are capable of a good 50mm lift without changing springs. thanks for the thought though.

D-Jack
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FollowupID: 367499

Follow Up By: Outbacktourer - Thursday, May 12, 2005 at 21:37

Thursday, May 12, 2005 at 21:37
D-Jack,

Sounds like you are more interested in a lift, in which case springs are cheap so why not?. My actual experience says that with polyairs at minimal inflation (5psi, full soft) you will still get around a 40mm rise out of the standard springs (unladen). The relative weakness of the Jack is the limited upward travel of the rear suspension which results in premature intervention of the bump stops, particularly with a load on. Lifted and slightly higher rate springs will assist with this and so will polyairs fitted inside the standard springs. IMHO it comes down to load characteristics. Constant load=Springs win. Variable load=Polyairs win. At the risk of telling you something you already know, front end travel is fixed. If you add 40mm lift, you take away 40mm down travel. There is a Calmini kit available which repalces the upper wishbone that can increase overall travel if you want to go the extra mile. Further on shocks, if the budget won't stretch the the Billys or Koni's, foam cell are a better option than gas due to fade resistance (more an issue with T/Bar IFS than Spring/Beam or Leaf/Beam) but thay can be harsh which is why the speed variable valving of the Billy is ideal. Almost anything will do in the rear.
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FollowupID: 367513

Reply By: Gerhardp1 - Thursday, May 12, 2005 at 21:34

Thursday, May 12, 2005 at 21:34
Hi D-Jack

For the price of a phone call to Sydney, give the boys at Rancho a call.

After a discussion with them about my Jack, I finished up with Rancho RS5000 shocks, delivered to my door next day for $480 for the set of 4. I fitted them myself with no problem at all.

The rear springs I chose, again after a discussion about what I do, where I go, and how much load I carry, etc, gave me 40mm lift and 30% stronger than standard. Delivered to my door next day for $220 for the pair. They suggested cranking up the front by 30mm to complement the higher rears. After doing this, the vehicle is a pleasure to drive everywhere.

You may finish up with a suggestion for Ranch RS9000 adjustibles and a different spring, depending on your usage.

In my opinion, it's no accident that all the extreme 4WDs you see in magazines are fitted with Rancho Shocks. Their gear is also usually cheaper than Pedders et al.

Gerhard
AnswerID: 111091

Follow Up By: Outbacktourer - Thursday, May 12, 2005 at 21:49

Thursday, May 12, 2005 at 21:49
Gerhard,

How do you find the Rancho's for corrogation fade?

Not questioning the product but bear in mind that lifts involved in extreme 4wd's often limit the number of shocks actually available to suit that application.
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FollowupID: 367518

Follow Up By: Gerhardp1 - Sunday, May 15, 2005 at 18:30

Sunday, May 15, 2005 at 18:30
Hi D Jack.

Just come back from the Vic High Country. Our intention was to camp at Mayford Friday Night, but the track was closed (Even though I rang Vic Parks before we left and was assured it was open.)

So we enjoyed Blue Rag Track Friday afternoon in brilliant sunshine, went down the other side to the river, turned back and went down Basalt Knob North track, down Ritchies track and camped overnight at the little river.

Saturday continued down Basalt Knob track to Talbotville, along Crooked River Road, up Randall's Track, Down Conway track, along Wonangatta Rd, down Scrubby Creek track and camped near Collins Hut.

Today we continued along Scrubby Creek track, Black Range track, Reedy Creek Track, Freestone creek Rd back to the blacktop and home.

The Jack was carrying quite a load of gear, tent, generator, fuel, camping table, wash up table, chairs, food, drinkies, water, gas bottles, etc, and I had no problem with shocker fade. The tracks we covered included steep, rocky, potholed, rutted sections and the shocks got a pretty good workout.

Hope that helps. Next time I will probably get the RS9000 because my usage has become more rough trails than when the boys at Rancho suggested the RS5000 - I think if I discussed it with them again they would suggest the 9000.

Gerhard
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FollowupID: 367703

Reply By: Member - Crazie (VIC) - Friday, May 13, 2005 at 08:22

Friday, May 13, 2005 at 08:22
Hi D-Jack

Ihave just done my jack, email me for a chat.
adam_craze@hotmail.com

cheers
crazie
AnswerID: 111138

Reply By: old-plodder - Friday, May 13, 2005 at 08:43

Friday, May 13, 2005 at 08:43
Just doing the same thing to my 96 Pajero, which has a similar suspension setup.

Standard front torsion bars. Only played with shocks as below.

Rear I have gone for king springs (variable) with 30% stiffer average across the range, and 50mm lift. They are about the same stiffness as stock empty, but firm up quickly when loaded, work well. Don't bottom out as much when fully loaded on a trip. When I inquired, kings had stock, heavy (+30%) and extra heavy. I wouldn't want to run extra heavy unless I was fully loaded all the time!

Have tried various shocks, stock, old man emu, rancho 9000s, formula, but now putting in konis and are impressed.
AnswerID: 111141

Reply By: Disco200Tdi - Friday, May 13, 2005 at 11:19

Friday, May 13, 2005 at 11:19
If outback touring on corrugated roads is your thing, then bilstein shocks are the way to go for your car.
As a high pressure gas monotube shock, the harder you work them the higher the valving rate becomes so they don't suffer the fade as other shocks do.
Around town they will feel a bit firm but you can't have everything.

As far as I knew Pedders buy all their stuff from someone else and put their stickers on it. Not the other way round.
I think the only shock manufacturer in Oz is Monroe in SA.

John D
AnswerID: 111156

Reply By: Member - Jeff M (WA) - Friday, May 13, 2005 at 11:22

Friday, May 13, 2005 at 11:22
I wouldn't go to a 4wd shop OR pedders for suspension. They'll both rip you blind. Find a good independant suspension specialist and talk to them. Pedders gear is just rebadged monroe anyway from what I hear. Not that theres anything wrong with monrow. (if you own a dunnydore).
AnswerID: 111158

Reply By: MrBitchi - Monday, May 16, 2005 at 09:05

Monday, May 16, 2005 at 09:05
D-Jack,
King Springs and Bilstein shocks. Your vehicle is about the same weight as the Pajero so this is a good combo. Kings for the Jack can be had for around $127 a set. Not sure what the Bilstein's will cost for the Jack. Fit them yourself and save a mottsa....
I think Bilsteins are better suited to the lighter fourby's (Pajero, jackaroo etc) than the Koni's.

Personally wouldn't touch pedders, previous bad experience and too much bad press.....

AnswerID: 111405

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