rear seat removal in 4wd

Submitted: Sunday, May 15, 2005 at 10:18
ThreadID: 22993 Views:3717 Replies:7 FollowUps:12
This Thread has been Archived
is this right?????
its illegal to remove the rear 5,6 & 7th seats for an extended period of time

The information obtained is from Westprint.com.au newsletters...
pdf file available in members uploads
Back Expand Un-Read 0 Moderator

Reply By: Member - Captain (WA) - Sunday, May 15, 2005 at 13:12

Sunday, May 15, 2005 at 13:12
Hi Nudenut,

In the latest VKS 737 newsletter on pg 11 they talk about how a Qld 4wder was fined $175 for removing the rear 2 seats. It goes on about how to change compliance etc, but the main thing is a footnote that says;

... the "Qld Vehicle Safety and Industry Reform section ....vehicles with quick release fittings....vehicles with bolt-in seating...no certification is necessary for TEMPORARY removal of seats. Temporary is defined as lasting a short time, with a short time being defined as less than the normal working week,

So, some progress but still not satisfactory in my opinion. Many vehicles, including mine, would fall foul of this rule. I have not checked the rules in WA, but most liklely similair to QLD.

Cheers

Captain
Its not what you drive, but how you drive it!
LC 200 + AOR Quantum

Member
My Profile  My Blog  My Position  Send Message
Classifieds: AGM battery 120 a.hr (2 available)

AnswerID: 111328

Follow Up By: Nudenut - Sunday, May 15, 2005 at 13:21

Sunday, May 15, 2005 at 13:21
me too..mine is being used as work horse (business) and if left the seats I wouldnt have room for my tools and equipment
0
FollowupID: 367694

Reply By: Bob Y. - Qld - Sunday, May 15, 2005 at 13:43

Sunday, May 15, 2005 at 13:43
Nudey,

Lot of talk on this subject on the campertrailer website. From what I remember, Qld has strongest legislation, hence the bloke's fine. The other states, at least NSW & Vic, didn't seem to worry as much.

We've had the third set of seats out of our 80 series for a couple of years, I wonder if our fine will include accrued interest?

Hooroo...
Seen it all, Done it all.
Can't remember most of it.

Lifetime Member
My Profile  My Blog  My Position  Send Message

AnswerID: 111332

Reply By: Moz - Sunday, May 15, 2005 at 14:26

Sunday, May 15, 2005 at 14:26
G'day,
In QLD at least, removing any seats without a modification plate will
make the vehicle unroadworthy, so if the cops pull you up for an inspection
they can issue a defect notice.
Interestingly if you want to reinstall the seating you will require another
modification plate to do it legally.
I think it relates to the fact the compliance plate states the seating capacity
of the vehicle.

Cheers
Moz
AnswerID: 111334

Follow Up By: Rocky M QLD - Sunday, May 15, 2005 at 15:58

Sunday, May 15, 2005 at 15:58
Hi to all,
you would think that the seating capacity on the appliance plate would be the max number of passengers you could carry and that removing a few seats would automatically reduce the number of passengers you could carry to the number of seat belted seats available.I would guess every second work vehicle would be illegal.It doesnt make a great deal of sense,
regards Dave
0
FollowupID: 367696

Follow Up By: Member - iMusty (VIC) - Sunday, May 15, 2005 at 23:04

Sunday, May 15, 2005 at 23:04
It's the LAW Rocky M. It's not surposed to make sense.
0
FollowupID: 367727

Follow Up By: Member - Matt Mu (Perth-WA) - Monday, May 16, 2005 at 13:05

Monday, May 16, 2005 at 13:05
Just keep in mind the laws are for the police to enforce...so little newbie copper, green behind the ears and doesnt have the faintest idea between a Landy and a Patrol, only need to check the compliance plate under the bonnet to check the vehicle for roadworthy.
Its all good and well to say, they should just look and make a descision on each vehicle, but the laws allow them NOT have to interpret!!

We all winge about coppers that make up the rules as they go along, but the target here isnt the police, its the RTA, Main Road, Vic Road etc!! We need to start a lobby for this issue, maybe bring a little sense to it!!

It is a very rediculous issue, temp removal is temp....there shouldnt be a time frame, unless the seat removal in permanent and its IMPOSSIBLE to refit. Then it should be complianced, otherwise leave it as temp.

I wonder if you remove the seat belts and make it look like it was only a 5 seater etc from factory, whether the officer would even realise you have `temporarily' removed seats? Or just tell him `yeah its only for this week then the cargo _Affordable_Storage_Drawers.aspx come out again' wink wink! But again, that doesnt solve it, just delays the inevitable!

Matt
0
FollowupID: 367776

Reply By: Chaz - Sunday, May 15, 2005 at 16:46

Sunday, May 15, 2005 at 16:46
Hi People,

This is a very interesting topic, and only goes to show how our national laws are messed up by the individual states. At work, I get a new 100 series cruiser every two years and the first thing we do is remove all the back seats, and that is a government vehicle. They say that if the cargo barrier is placed behind the front seats, then by law no one can sit in the rear.
In my own GU Patrol I have removed the third row along with the belts, and like many others have fitted the cargo barrier behind the middle row, so it would be illegal for anyone to occupy the third row anyway.
If these laws are correct then they are also contradictory, and could be challenged as long as there is a cargo barrier fitted.
Personally I would have thought that the seating capacity of a vehicle would be determined by the number of seat belts, not seats. Crazy!

Chaz
AnswerID: 111342

Reply By: peterK - Sunday, May 15, 2005 at 17:34

Sunday, May 15, 2005 at 17:34
So I was bored and I read the westprint document and then had a look around:

In Vic
All I couild find was VicRoads Change to seating capacity
"Assessment on the seating capacity modification is required before the vehicle can be registered with the new seating capacity. This includes reductions of seating capacity, where capacity is reduced to 12 seats or less, as different standards for registration apply to vehicles with 12 seats or less."
Depending on how you read that if you start with less then 12 and finish with less then 12 you dont have to worry

NSW - Couldnt find anything

SA.
well in the article at the end of the day its probably right, if your rego and compliance plate say your vehicle has 7 seats and you move two out permanently you only have 5. so i guess at the end of the day is it really a problem changing your rego slip. Thinking about it might be something to do with people who sell cars second hand and maybe retrofit the seats back (but not all that well)

QLD
It said nothing in the Light vehicle modifications handout whic provides legal and safety guidelines for people wishing to modify vehicles with a gross mass up to and including 4.5 tonnes from the manufacturer's original specifications
Light vehicle modifications

There was an answer in the FAQ to this question - "What do I do if my registration certificate shows the incorrect number of seats?"
Answer:
If the number of seats is the same as shown on the compliance plate, then you will need to present your vehicle to a Customer Service Centre to have it re-inspected.

............

So really I think that it may just be a partly a case of protecting those who buy it second hand, or a rule really aimed at increasing seats.

AnswerID: 111349

Follow Up By: peterK - Sunday, May 15, 2005 at 17:45

Sunday, May 15, 2005 at 17:45
Just a bit more. I suppose it would have benifits to second hand scenarios wher I have had my rear seats out for 6 years and decide to shove them back in. Being the dodgy handyman that I am I forget where I put the bolts when I took them out so I shove a couple of cheapies in there (probably strip the threads lol) and sell it on.

Dont get me wrong either I think state rules being different is dull, but then again I think State Govts are a waste of time as well and we should just have two layers of govt (lead by the president) .

Maybe the rego will change - at least there is only one set of road rules
0
FollowupID: 367699

Follow Up By: peterK - Sunday, May 15, 2005 at 18:40

Sunday, May 15, 2005 at 18:40
sorry bit more lol
i also suppose it right in the end, if the plate says you can seat 7 but you take out a row, you could just imagine someone having an accident with 5 seats and 7 people in the car and then blaming the fact the rego said they could (or least their lawyer would take this approach)
0
FollowupID: 367704

Reply By: Members - Greg & Gail - Sunday, May 15, 2005 at 19:02

Sunday, May 15, 2005 at 19:02
When I moved from NSW to Qld and changed my rego I had to get an engineers certificate because the back seat was out of my Troopy.
If I want to put it back in I will need a new certificate.
"Work interferes with living"

Member
My Profile  My Blog  My Position  Send Message

AnswerID: 111362

Reply By: Member - Algee (NSW) - Sunday, May 15, 2005 at 21:20

Sunday, May 15, 2005 at 21:20
OK Guys enough of this guff. I work for NSW Police and have relo's in QLD Police. This is an old wives tale. No-one from NSW Hwy Patrol to RTA know anything of this supposed law. That goes the same for QLD. The thing offerred from QLD was that whoever (if ever) got the fine must of really "P" Mr Plod off that he dug a old unknown law out of (where the sun dont shine). Even some of the parties in my 4x4 Club are worried about it. Get a Life there is more to panic about in the world than this.
AnswerID: 111381

Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Sunday, May 15, 2005 at 23:14

Sunday, May 15, 2005 at 23:14
"This is an old wives tale. No-one from NSW Hwy Patrol to RTA know anything of this supposed law"

that does not suprise me.

"Get a Life there is more to panic about in the world than this."
until something goes wrong.
0
FollowupID: 367728

Follow Up By: Member - Woodsy - Monday, May 16, 2005 at 08:32

Monday, May 16, 2005 at 08:32
Hi Algee,

I reckon that the major concern is the insurance companies who could latch onto this as a reason to refuse an insurance claim 'cos your 4 x 4 didn't comply with the compliance plate and was therefore unroadworthy.

Is this possible?

Happy 4 wheeling

Woodsy

Lifetime Member
My Profile  Send Message

0
FollowupID: 367747

Follow Up By: flappa - Monday, May 16, 2005 at 09:42

Monday, May 16, 2005 at 09:42
Quote:OK Guys enough of this guff. I work for NSW Police and have relo's in QLD Police. This is an old wives tale. No-one from NSW Hwy Patrol to RTA know anything of this supposed law. "

You think , this is a copy of an email I recieved from NSW RTA.

>Subject
>Vehicle Registration
>
>Message
>Dear Sir Madam, Could you please clarify when the third row of
seats are
>removed from a 4wd , either temporially for a weekend or short trip
, or when
>they are permanently removed to allow fitment of a cargo barrier and
a set of
>cargo drawers , what is required for registration ?

Graeme,

Theoretically, each time the seating capacity changes, the RTA needs to
be notified.

The issue is really only going to concern Police Officers who may
intercept the vehicle, for whatever reason, and check the registration
details.

Some of the seats in this type of vehicle are made, by the manufacturer,
so they can be 'unclipped' and removed for extra capacity when
travelling.

If the above circumstance does occur, the best idea would be to explain
to the officer why the seat was removed and it's only temporary.

Otherwise, each time you remove and replace the seat, the vehicle should
be inspected by a "Blue Slip" inspection station to verify the correct
installation and record the seating capacity change.

If you have any other enquiries, don't hesitate to reply or contact
Technical Enquiries on 1300 137 302.

Regards

Colin Lambert

Technical Enquiries Officer

Here is one from Vic.

The requirements for removing seats will vary depending on:

· the original number of seating positions
· the new number of seating positions
· which seats are removed
· when the vehicle was manufactured

An Approval Certificate is not required if:
· the number of original seating positions was less than 10
· 10 or more seating positions have been reduced to 2 - 3 seats in the
front row only
· 10 or more seating positions have been reduced to 4 - 9 seats in a
vehicle manufactured before 1970
· more than 12 seating positions have been reduced to 10-12 seats in a
vehicle manufactured before 1986
· the number of seating positions does not reduce to below 13

If the modification is not listed above an Approval Certificate is
required.

Yours sincerely

Jayne Herbertson
Rural Call Centre Ballarat

Both QLD and the ACT , wouldn't give me an answer by Email. they directed me to ring their technical depts directly.


0
FollowupID: 367753

Follow Up By: Member - Matt Mu (Perth-WA) - Monday, May 16, 2005 at 13:16

Monday, May 16, 2005 at 13:16
Typical Flappa, they dont want to go down in writing incase someone uses that as proof for a mod. Ring the Dept and talk to 'A' on monday and get a totally different response from 'B' on Tues!! QT is shocking for that!!!

This still amuses me since a few new cars on the market come with 5 second removeable seating!! Check the current RAV4, the second and third row seats unlip in seconds!!!

Think this is an old wives tale??? What a load of crud...its only a wives tale until you get pinged....its not hard for any law enforcement to look at a compliance plate and then book you for not having an approved mod..... then its over the pits etc to clear you name, then pay for the compliance plate change and all over again when you need the seats back in!!

This needs to be settled sensibly otherwise we are all at the descretion of the officer/inspector of the day! This is not their fault..they just have to enforce these rediculous laws!!!

Matt.
0
FollowupID: 367778

Follow Up By: flappa - Monday, May 16, 2005 at 13:35

Monday, May 16, 2005 at 13:35
With due respect to our Police mate above . . .

Its not uncommon for police to NOT know what the rules are they are enforcing . . . sorry.

You can talk to a dozen police , and get a different answer each time.

I was accused a little while ago , in relation to this matter , of spreading gossip , with no evidence . . . well , there it is.

I have also spoken to QLD and ACT on the phone , but eh . . . its not written.

Take from it what you want.

Ignore it , to your hearts content.

IF , by some freak of nature , you DO get pulled over . . . dont say you weren't warned of the POTENTIAL for it to happen.
0
FollowupID: 367781

Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Monday, May 16, 2005 at 17:37

Monday, May 16, 2005 at 17:37
"Its not uncommon for police to NOT know what the rules are they are enforcing . . . sorry.
You can talk to a dozen police , and get a different answer each time."

BINGO..

Theres the problem. what chance do we stand? You get the same chit with insurance companies.

YMMV
0
FollowupID: 367808

Sponsored Links

Popular Products (14)