Re post 23022..How is it that we have to pay

Submitted: Monday, May 16, 2005 at 17:47
ThreadID: 23032 Views:1800 Replies:11 FollowUps:20
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for places which we all own.(nat parks) Is it because the govt don't make enough out of tax's on fuel to to fund the parks? Or the money on rego we pay?The licenses we pay for? I for one never buy a day pass when travelling thru these places when i don't intend to stop. We spent a night on the Paroo River last month between Eulo and Hungerford and i was appalled to find out the cost for 2 adults and 3 kids was $16 a night,what a joke? (no facilities) Don't get me wrong i am not a tight ass it's the principal. When was it that we all rolled over and let the Govt charge us for using National Parks?
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Reply By: Footloose - Monday, May 16, 2005 at 18:08

Monday, May 16, 2005 at 18:08
Around the same time we didn't take an active interest in what they were up to. We didnt scream at tax rates (an unexpected surplus...hang on, its our money...give it back !!). We didnt scream at taxes on fuel. We didnt scream at anything at all. We figured that user pays sounded fair. Little did we know. GST sounded fair. Little did we know. Theft by stealth. But thats ok cause they have a mandate. Exactly what proportion of Oz voted little Johhny in ?? Some mandate.
I wonder how many pollies were used car salesmen in a past life :)))))))
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Follow Up By: Brew69(SA) - Monday, May 16, 2005 at 18:12

Monday, May 16, 2005 at 18:12
Ahhhhhhh Little Johnny. Nah lets not go there i'll start kicking the dog. :)
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Follow Up By: Member - iMusty (VIC) - Monday, May 16, 2005 at 18:26

Monday, May 16, 2005 at 18:26
What did the dog do?
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Follow Up By: Footloose - Monday, May 16, 2005 at 18:36

Monday, May 16, 2005 at 18:36
i Misty, you're right. Think I'm having a PMT moment or two :))
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Follow Up By: Member - iMusty (VIC) - Monday, May 16, 2005 at 18:52

Monday, May 16, 2005 at 18:52
Im 37 and when I turned 18 I decided that if I don't vote I wont complain. I sleep like a baby every night for 19 years.
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Follow Up By: Footloose - Monday, May 16, 2005 at 19:01

Monday, May 16, 2005 at 19:01
I Musty, you're right. Don't vote, it only encourages em.
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Follow Up By: Shaker - Tuesday, May 17, 2005 at 13:24

Tuesday, May 17, 2005 at 13:24
If you don't vote ..... then don't whinge!
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Follow Up By: Member - iMusty (VIC) - Tuesday, May 17, 2005 at 13:53

Tuesday, May 17, 2005 at 13:53
Actually when I think about it.

I didn't learn anywhere in school that when the Brits got here 200 years ago that they got togrther woth the Aboriginal Compnity to "VOTE" on issues regarding Nat. Parks. I almost typed Nat. Perks.

Hmm so fncK em I say. Pay what you want to pay.

Make your own rules up as you go along.

And if someone gives you a hard time about it just shoot him. Or chain him up at the neck and get him to plant veges in your garden.

I hear the white folk have good rythym. (Especially those forest keeper type) Get them to do a little Jig for you after supper. .

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Follow Up By: Shaker - Tuesday, May 17, 2005 at 16:34

Tuesday, May 17, 2005 at 16:34
If you feel so strongly about it ... Why don't you donate your house to the local Aboriginal comminity? Then you could plant vegies for them!
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Follow Up By: Member - iMusty (VIC) - Tuesday, May 17, 2005 at 19:42

Tuesday, May 17, 2005 at 19:42
Shaker, "If you don't vote then don't winge". I didn't winge.

And as for donating my house? Hey Im a practising hypocrite, which means I put ME first always.

Unless of course I decide not to.

Pretty much. It's up to me.
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Reply By: Utemad - Monday, May 16, 2005 at 18:28

Monday, May 16, 2005 at 18:28
I personally think paying to use National Parks is a great idea. There are many different ways that this is implemented and some are better than others.

Just think of how many tourists visit National Parks. Particularly overseas tourists. For the States that don't charge fees, it is the taxpayer that funds these parks so these guys can come over and visit them for free. Sure they might spend some money in the local shops or whatever but we are still paying for the parks so they can visit them. I certainly would prefer they contribute something.
This is just a user pays system and nothing more. These fee systems do not cover the running costs of the National Parks by a long shot so the people that do not visit them but benefit by having fresh air to breath are still contributing.

I always have a laugh when people complain about taxes on fuel or fees for entry to some Govt run place. Why is it people think that if we were to remove taxes on fuel that the Govt wouldn't just get the money by placing taxes on something else?

The money needs to be raised from somewhere. However it is done you as a consumer will be paying for it somehow.
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Follow Up By: Brew69(SA) - Monday, May 16, 2005 at 18:42

Monday, May 16, 2005 at 18:42
Utemad.....The points you make don't make me change my mind lol. As for laughing at people who complain about tax on fuel??(i think u need help :)) The way i understand it and correct me if i am wrong is that the tax on fuel is a % rather than a fixed cents/litre so the higher the price the more the tax. What is happening to the extra income from these tax's? I never suggested removing the tax just using the money from them to fund the parks. Oh well everyone to their own .....
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Follow Up By: Footloose - Monday, May 16, 2005 at 19:00

Monday, May 16, 2005 at 19:00
There's more to it than that. Who sets the level and type of services provided by the Feds ? We do of course...yeah right.

The truth is that much legislation is instigated by various lobby groups in their own interests. If the Govt thinks there's a vote in it then its passed.
We go along with the spin doctors until the fourth estate finds something to cause a stink over.

The user pays concept assumes that all users can afford to pay for what they consume. The poor, the disabled, the pensioners, the disadvantaged also have to consume things like utilities. Pay for luxuaries perhaps, but is water a luxuary ? Rates ?

If the user pays, how come public school parents pay for private schools and vica versa ? "User Pays" is a nice little justifying phrase often trotted out, meaning buggar all in many cases.

At election time we vote with a hip pocket cargo cult mentality, always believing that they actually care enough to keep their promises. The warm and fuzzies disappear as soon as an elections been won.

A surplus simply means that the Govt has ripped the poor taxpayers off enen more than even they intended to.

In the case of fuel, the user pays, and pays ....and pays.

Arghhhh ! Enough, Footie, back to normal programming :))
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Follow Up By: Utemad - Monday, May 16, 2005 at 20:41

Monday, May 16, 2005 at 20:41
I work in the environmental scene and am also currently studying the same. That would be why in my view more money for National Parks is a good thing :-)
At least in Qld NPs are so underfunded it is not funny. We are getting more and more parks but the staffing levels are not increasing at the same rate. IMHO parks were understaffed before anyway.

As for the gazillion other taxes and fees and the other methods of raising money the Govt uses. I don't care. Like anyone else I would like to keep as much money as I earn in my own pocket however I don't want to see services suffer.
There is FA we can do about taxes so I'd prefer to worry about when I was going 4wding next :-)

See you in the bush (in my solar powered Rodeo!)
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Reply By: bruce.h (WA) - Monday, May 16, 2005 at 19:53

Monday, May 16, 2005 at 19:53
if you are going to winge at least get your facts striaght
gst i a commenwealth taxl tax as is feul excise
where as the the fees to enter national parks are state based
so if you are going to complian complian about state governments
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Follow Up By: Brew69(SA) - Monday, May 16, 2005 at 20:10

Monday, May 16, 2005 at 20:10
Hi Bruce....hate to rain on your parade but the state govts actually get a vast amount of their funding from the Fed govt. So any monies generated from federal tax's are really no different from a state tax.
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Reply By: Steve - Monday, May 16, 2005 at 20:38

Monday, May 16, 2005 at 20:38
Brew: Currawinya is a beaut park ...clean and tidy and not full of rubbish andbleepleft by travellers... Cleaning up after the dirty jokers have passed through !!! and supplying them with water and showers ...that's where your money goes !!! You probably did'nt notice this ? ..humans are the dirtiest animals on earth...regardless of which state they come from...
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Follow Up By: Brew69(SA) - Monday, May 16, 2005 at 20:54

Monday, May 16, 2005 at 20:54
Yes it is Steve, it was probably the best camping spot we had on our trip.Just question $16 a night for something which should IMO be free.A caravan park costs a few dollars more and that pays someones wages on private land.(i prefer the bush camp tho)
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Reply By: Steve - Monday, May 16, 2005 at 21:11

Monday, May 16, 2005 at 21:11
Not in to having an arguement...Caravan parks are a tad smaller than Nat Parks and as we all know ...but don't believe me. User Pays ..is now the order of the day ..so if its Two bucks more a night...even per head ...thenbleephappens !!! and a s for facilities .. well they are there but not splattered all over the park ..Really arguing that 5 people for $16 a night is not value.. is really not worth the thread !!
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Reply By: Bros - Monday, May 16, 2005 at 22:06

Monday, May 16, 2005 at 22:06
Brew 69,
I don't really care about paying for the park if the facilities, or even some of them, are in place.
The part i don't like about paying is if there is not one iota of facilities, which is the case in some parks.
Cheers,
Bros.
Work is the curse of the down and out bludger.

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Follow Up By: govo - Monday, May 16, 2005 at 22:37

Monday, May 16, 2005 at 22:37
Agree with you 100% Bros..just returned from Byfield NP and the good ol sparks and nolife did some real brainwave idea's there.Where a lot of poeple used to camp beside a fresh water creek in behind the dunes and where there were established tracks into the camping area ,there is now signs up saying no camping in this area, so now everyone has to camp further down the beach thus makeing new tracks over the dunes and clearing new camp sites.
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Follow Up By: govo - Monday, May 16, 2005 at 22:41

Monday, May 16, 2005 at 22:41
O and i forgot to mention the facilities, which are....ummm ummm..bugger there was none.And we actually picked up two rubbish bags on other peoples rubbish( i hate it when i do a good thing )
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Reply By: Member - Smocky (NSW) - Monday, May 16, 2005 at 22:26

Monday, May 16, 2005 at 22:26
I just spent $16 on lunch!

I'm not into criticising anyone and am not directly doing here, but some people need some perspective.

I've got $100+ dollars worth of park access fees stuck to my front window and that's just for passing through. It now costs me $75 to fill my Rodeo which will only take me 380 km's. A haircut costs me $30, so $16 for the pleasure of spending a night in a quiet, clean, maintained place doesn't see a lot to me.

Mind you, there are a couple of interesting points made above though. Adding my opinion to it: everything the government spends money on is ALSO increasing in cost, so I suppose they too need increased taxes in terms of fuel prices etc. Meaning, if petrol is dearer and they get more tax, so too are the wages of road workers, the increased cost of workplace safety etc, etc.

My diggest beef is with bracket creep where the average salary earner is now in the second top tax bracket. Now THAT's unfair.

Cheers all, stay safe and remember this is STILL the lucky country.

Smocky.
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Reply By: Member - Davoe (WA) - Tuesday, May 17, 2005 at 01:47

Tuesday, May 17, 2005 at 01:47
why are some National parks free and others not?
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Reply By: flappa - Tuesday, May 17, 2005 at 09:20

Tuesday, May 17, 2005 at 09:20
I WISH it was $16 a night . . .

It cost me $35 a night to stay in a Nat Park , with no facilites and $30 a night to stay in a Cvan park WITH power and Hot showers . . . go figure.

I dont have a problem with some payment . . . user pays . . . no problems , BUT , the level of fees is ridiculous.
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Follow Up By: Member - Smocky (NSW) - Tuesday, May 17, 2005 at 12:57

Tuesday, May 17, 2005 at 12:57
$35 a night is a bit much.

Agree, user pays to an extent is OK. I suppose the other side of user pays is user discretion or choice. Don't go to that NP any more.

Smocky.
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Follow Up By: flappa - Tuesday, May 17, 2005 at 13:08

Tuesday, May 17, 2005 at 13:08
But what I cant understand is , OK , there is 6 of us , but , we take up no more room , or use any more resources , then a couple.

Why do we pay 3 times as much ?
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Follow Up By: Member - Smocky (NSW) - Tuesday, May 17, 2005 at 13:16

Tuesday, May 17, 2005 at 13:16
Well if there were facilities, you'd say that you're going to use more water or electricity etc. I suppose the only argument when in bush is based on user pays. There are more users therefore more pays.

It would seem that the fairest charging method for NP's is to charge per car.
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Follow Up By: flappa - Tuesday, May 17, 2005 at 13:40

Tuesday, May 17, 2005 at 13:40
THATS what I mean.

In a Cvan park . . . fair enough , per person , no problems , use water , tricity etc etc.

In a nat Park with just long drop loos , and supply own water . . . what extra am I using . . . More loo paper , maybe , but $20 more ?

More firewood . . . Hardly.

I use no more space for my CT , then a Couple in their CT or Cvan.

Pay per car , or per site (6 adults may need 2 sites etc).
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Reply By: Nudenut - Tuesday, May 17, 2005 at 10:40

Tuesday, May 17, 2005 at 10:40
I can stay in our fishing clubs cottages for $10/night.....
hot and cold running water, airconditioned, stoves open fires places, comfy beds, ...is it any wonder we complain about TAX'S
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Reply By: Truckster (Vic) - Tuesday, May 17, 2005 at 22:17

Tuesday, May 17, 2005 at 22:17
Brew, Im with u on this one.. like the Gov, selling all the companies that WE already own, so they can shaft us more.

When was it that we all rolled over and let the Govt charge us for using National Parks?
Some parks have charged entry since early 70's. probably earlier, but I aint that old, ask Willem ;)
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