why is diesel so expensive?

Submitted: Friday, Nov 22, 2002 at 01:00
ThreadID: 2430 Views:2481 Replies:15 FollowUps:17
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Can anyone give me a genuine reason why diesel is so expensive when compared to ULP or even PULP - I thought that diesel was less refined than petrol! - many years ago diesel was the cheap fuel - what happened?
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Reply By: Tim - Friday, Nov 22, 2002 at 01:00

Friday, Nov 22, 2002 at 01:00
may I also add thet diesel in melbourne yesterday was 92.9 cpl and ULP was 82.9 clp
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Follow Up By: Janset - Saturday, Nov 23, 2002 at 01:00

Saturday, Nov 23, 2002 at 01:00
Come to W.A. The average price is about 96 cents per litre.
W.A. is usually the most expensive of all the states, but then I do not know about Tasmania.
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Follow Up By: Stevesub - Monday, Nov 25, 2002 at 01:00

Monday, Nov 25, 2002 at 01:00
In Auckland New Zealand, diesel 0.70c/l, ULP $1.00/l in $NZ. Bear in mind that we also have Road User Charges for diesel powered vehicles based on the weight of the vehicle and is charged per km at a rate of approx $NZ27 per 1000km for a 3 ton 4WD.

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Reply By: Member - Nigel - Friday, Nov 22, 2002 at 01:00

Friday, Nov 22, 2002 at 01:00
I guess the oil companies would say that it costs more because less volume is sold. Pretty poor reason really.
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Follow Up By: Brian - Saturday, Nov 23, 2002 at 01:00

Saturday, Nov 23, 2002 at 01:00
I can remember back in the earl 80s when diesel was half price !!! back when diesel 4wd were not as popular !!!

Brian
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Reply By: gerry - Friday, Nov 22, 2002 at 01:00

Friday, Nov 22, 2002 at 01:00
Tim , I read a report in a paper recently,that the reason for the high cost of diesel is the fact that diesel is the most used fuel in the world. The old story of supply and demand. It was cheap some years back so everyone started to use it, so up went the price , A bit like LPG today
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Reply By: voxson - Friday, Nov 22, 2002 at 01:00

Friday, Nov 22, 2002 at 01:00
i wanna know the same about LPG....... today in adelaide the price is 0.57c a litre .... why is that?
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Follow Up By: Axel + Karen - Friday, Nov 22, 2002 at 01:00

Friday, Nov 22, 2002 at 01:00
gas had less tax ,now on par,,blame Howard,
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Follow Up By: Rodeoowner - Saturday, Nov 23, 2002 at 01:00

Saturday, Nov 23, 2002 at 01:00
When I had my vehicle converted in Sydney 2 years ago, LPG was 35c. About a year later it was 50c. In Tassie at the moment it is 59-63 cents. At that price it works out only just cheaper than petrol at 92 cents.
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Reply By: Axel + Karen - Friday, Nov 22, 2002 at 01:00

Friday, Nov 22, 2002 at 01:00
Tim, the retail price of diesel and all other petrols / oils / lubricants can all be summed up in one word ,,,GREED,,, tax, is the no1 reason,,, back in the late 60,s early 70,s petrol cost 35cents a gallon=4.5 litres ,,,,allow for inflation ect should now cost 35cents perlitre,,,rest is all taxes,,
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Follow Up By: Truckster - Friday, Nov 22, 2002 at 01:00

Friday, Nov 22, 2002 at 01:00
I agree.

in 1980 $10 used to do me a weekend riding my bike out the sand hills at kurnell, 2 stroke oil, and food for the weekend!

Now $10 doesnt get you bleep te...
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Follow Up By: Janset - Saturday, Nov 23, 2002 at 01:00

Saturday, Nov 23, 2002 at 01:00
Hi all.
Only yesterday I sent an email the Mr Kobelke, ( I think that is how you spell his name), he is featured on our fuel watch web site. I asked him would he please give me a list of all the taxes paid by all parties from the time the oil comes out of the ground to the time I put the fuel into my tank.

As yet nothing has been heard. If and when he gets back to me I will post it for the benefit of all.

At present, please correct me if you know different but I believe that the oil companies have to pay a levy (that nice word that means the same as a tax but is not classified as a tax by the Pollies) something to do with exploration.

I vaguely remember something about 1 or 2 taxes more taxes being imposed before it comes to the pump. All the costs, including the Taxes are added up and then we are required to pay GST on all, INCLUDING THE IMPOSED TAXES.

The up side for the Govt. is that the more the fuel goes up, the more we pay in GST.

All you guys out there who voted Howard in with his GST platform should be very happy by now. Enjoy, for it is going to get much worse.

One parting shot though. Howard will never have to pay for petrol for the rest of his life. Now tell me that there is not a law for one and a law for another in this great country of ours.

The motorist is the proverbial milking cow never forget that! :(

I will now step off my pet subject soap box.

Regards
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Reply By: OziExplorer - Friday, Nov 22, 2002 at 01:00

Friday, Nov 22, 2002 at 01:00
Local Woolworths/Safeway Plus+ Servo was 10c off with a docket over $50.00. The price was the cheapest in town before the 10c off. Paid 81.9 today for diesel.

LPG at current prices outside of capital cities is not viable, and it is cheaper to use petrol.
AnswerID: 8850

Follow Up By: Member - Nigel - Friday, Nov 22, 2002 at 01:00

Friday, Nov 22, 2002 at 01:00
What state are you in? In a Far North Queensland rural town it's only 84.9 for diesel without a voucher - ULP is 80.1
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Follow Up By: Johnsy - Saturday, Nov 23, 2002 at 01:00

Saturday, Nov 23, 2002 at 01:00
another reason im off to fnq next year $1.07 in alice
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Reply By: Michael - Friday, Nov 22, 2002 at 01:00

Friday, Nov 22, 2002 at 01:00
Hi all, The government removed the road tax about 20 years ago when Greendog and his fellow truckdrivers blockaded Razorback Mountain near Picton,NSW. Diesel was about half the price of petrol so when the road tax came off, the fuel tax went on.That had the truckies scratching their heads!!! Regards Michael
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Reply By: Axel + Karen - Saturday, Nov 23, 2002 at 01:00

Saturday, Nov 23, 2002 at 01:00
The math is simple and shows the GREED ,,,,if fuel $1.00 at pump,,fedtaxes=.53cents,,statetaxes=.08cents[qld excepted] GST10cents,,[ governments love to double dip ] leaves.29cents in the $,,servo gets1to 2cents per,, the left over 27cents is transport and manufacturing,,,so who is the GREEDY bas---d,,, 4yrs ago gas was15c to19c perlt [no tax ] now averages 47/56c per,,,has nothing to do with supply and demand,,Australia is self sufficient in LPG ,,,GREEDY Howards excuse is that we must have price parity to the rest of the world ,,,is all a load of pollies b--l bleep te,just as ethenol was to be cheaper,,put onto the market GREEDY John taxed it to be on par,,,man might have to see about a 4x4 pushbike,,,[probably tax that too.]
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Follow Up By: Mikell - Saturday, Nov 23, 2002 at 01:00

Saturday, Nov 23, 2002 at 01:00
I am pretty sure LPG has no tax apart from GST. It is the gas companies that are ripping us off with LPG not Howard. He rips us off with everything else though
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Reply By: PETER - Saturday, Nov 23, 2002 at 01:00

Saturday, Nov 23, 2002 at 01:00
i am in seaford victoria and at woolworths the price of diesel is higher than 711 even with its discount docket. at present i pay 87.9 ar the 711 between seaford road and hall road on frankston road regards peter
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Follow Up By: Truckster - Saturday, Nov 23, 2002 at 01:00

Saturday, Nov 23, 2002 at 01:00
I find the Caltex on frankston dande road near the frankston freeway exit is ALWAYS cheaper than most else around....

Depends on the day, the weather, etc on how much they charge.... oh adn if theres a school hoilday on the books.

Give it a month TOPS for it to go up again for Xmas newyears......
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Reply By: voxson - Saturday, Nov 23, 2002 at 01:00

Saturday, Nov 23, 2002 at 01:00
i bought LPG in adelaide less than 6months ago for 0.33c a litre
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Follow Up By: Phil G - Saturday, Nov 23, 2002 at 01:00

Saturday, Nov 23, 2002 at 01:00
Voxson, I think the demand for LPG in the northern hemisphere rises in their winter and puts the price up in our Summer.

Phil
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Reply By: Emjay - Monday, Nov 25, 2002 at 01:00

Monday, Nov 25, 2002 at 01:00
Fuelwatch (http://fuelwatch.com.au) did a survey the other day. It was interesting to see the variations between states, with Queeensland consistently cheaper. Unfortunately, they don't survey diesel yet (sign up, it's free, and ask them to include it), saying that it will be added "soon".
The replies that blame Howard are a bit pointless. It's not as if a politician is collecting the money and squirrelling it away for his personal use. Any rational evaluation of what happens to taxes will clearly show that it's all spent on us, one way or another. Politicians' salaries and perks wouldn't even register a blip in the larger scheme of things. Still, it's always nice to blame "them", isn't it.
AnswerID: 8925

Follow Up By: Truckster - Monday, Nov 25, 2002 at 01:00

Monday, Nov 25, 2002 at 01:00
It's not as if a politician is collecting the money and squirrelling it away for his personal use.

Um.... 70% taxpayer funded superannuation, how much super does your boss put in for you? .... thats to start with $100k office upgrades when the old office is 12 months old..

Shall I keep going?

Any rational evaluation of what happens to taxes will clearly show that it's all spent on us, one way or another
This would be the reason they *NEED* another levy on 4wds in Vic to look after tracks??? The reason they took 3x3 in NSW for 15+ yrs to upgrade roads, which they never did.....

Im on a roll here... SOMEBODY STOP ME!

Politicians' salaries and perks wouldn't even register a blip in the larger scheme of things. Still, it's always nice to blame "them", isn't it.
only when its warranted which is 24/7..

Show me figures on the last 10 yrs on road taxes, fuel levys etc that have been spend 100% of on roads???? Even the pollys admit that they cant do it.... its needed " ELSEWHERE!"
Elsewhere wouldnt be junkets to Hawaii, Disneyland, and even Tebet, and some really bleep ttttty places would it?


Note they never goto Redfern for a conference? They would get cheap rates... I know of a place on Everly St they could use.. THe Burnt out HR Inn I think it is called.....
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Follow Up By: Axel + Karen - Monday, Nov 25, 2002 at 01:00

Monday, Nov 25, 2002 at 01:00
Emjay,if you truly believe that all our fuel taxes are spent on us,that is your perogative,but please do not expect us to believe that 99% of politicians are in the job purely for OUR wellbeing when most would not even know the price of a litre of milk let alone the price of fuel.
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Reply By: Ptk Melb - Tuesday, Nov 26, 2002 at 01:00

Tuesday, Nov 26, 2002 at 01:00
Greed Is why !!!! Squeeze the dollars out of motorists-wrong !!!
I pay about 86c to 89 c a litre in pascoe vale Melb.
I wish it was 65cents but we don't have any choice.

When ethanol is added to petrol i bet some greedy servo's will blend 20% which will stuff up motors. at least we don't have to worry about that with diesel.
Only worry is if sulphur rate is lowered,as it can stuff up seals in pre 95 models.
Just out of interest i use Morey's fuel additive for diesels which raises the cetane of diesel by 5 points. kind of an octane boost.
Seems to be working ok...


cheers peter K Melb
AnswerID: 8963

Follow Up By: Truckster - Tuesday, Nov 26, 2002 at 01:00

Tuesday, Nov 26, 2002 at 01:00
I wish it was 65cents but we don't have any choice.


I wish it was ~20cents like when I was a kid... bollox to 50+... Ahhh that was when the $ was worth a $...

I remember all the yelling and screaming when fuel went to .30cents.... That was the start of it all, then 40, hours later 50. GREED>>>>................ LOTS AND LOTS OF GREED............
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Follow Up By: Ptk Melb - Tuesday, Nov 26, 2002 at 01:00

Tuesday, Nov 26, 2002 at 01:00
How about reducing the diesel price for 4WD's as it is the 4 w drivers
who repair the bad ruts on tracks, clear fallen trees over tracks, therefore keeping the tracks clear for emergency vehicles should the need arise. this is unpaid work, a labour of love of the bush. This would cost heaps if the pollies had to pay for it to be done.!!!! We do it for nothing, and what do we get for it,, Higher fuel prices. Shame Shame Shame!!!.

had my bitch now i feel better...
Cheers peter K
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Reply By: Emjay - Tuesday, Nov 26, 2002 at 01:00

Tuesday, Nov 26, 2002 at 01:00
Wow. Opened a can of worms there, didn't I!

Truckster, I didn't say that 100% of taxes on fuel were spent on roads. My argument was simply that one way or another, our taxes are spent on us. If some of my fuel tax somehow finds its way into a bit of hospital equipment that one day saves your life, then I reckon it's not too bad an outcome, don't you?

But equally, if you ever do find youself lying in intensive care being told that there are insufficient resources to save your life, it'll be little consolation to find the money has been spent building a better road somewhere. My point is that taxes don't go into the personal pockets of politicians so there's not a great deal to be gained by blaming them for some sort of imagined greed.

It is also pretty pointless to argue that this, that or the other government does the job significantly better than another. They're all pretty ordinary, but I don't see that cutting what is spent on them is going to improve the overall quality - that's something that will only be improved when we all stop voting like sheep.

Regardless of whether it is justified, earned or totally wasted, if all the money spent on politician's salaries, superannuation and "junkets" could somehow be put back into general revenue, it would barely register in the total Australian budget.



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Reply By: Member - Melissa - Tuesday, Nov 26, 2002 at 01:00

Tuesday, Nov 26, 2002 at 01:00
Hi Tim,

Years ago, diesel was about 1/2 the price of petrol, mainly because of supply and demand. Less demand, cheaper price. Then everyone started using it. Demand went up, so did the price. Also, the pollies soon realised that it wasn't just industry using diesel so naturally, they had to get their cut 'cause they couldn't have mum & dad's getting something for nothing. So taxes went up too.

But of course, they couldn't be seen to penalise industry/farmers etc so they bought in the Off-road Diesel Fuel Rebate Scheme. Basically, this means the fully taxed price is paid at the bowser by everyone, then certain eligible parties claim a rebate. This includes industries like mining, agriculture, forestry, rail, marine, power, hospitals etc. In this way, the govt ensure they collect diesel fuel taxes from the rest of us poor buggars.

:-| Melissa
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Follow Up By: Winaje - Tuesday, Nov 26, 2002 at 01:00

Tuesday, Nov 26, 2002 at 01:00
Well summed up Melissa...

Bill Church
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Reply By: Emjay - Tuesday, Nov 26, 2002 at 01:00

Tuesday, Nov 26, 2002 at 01:00
Anyone noticed that our 4wds still enjoy favoured tariff treatment over regular cars and wagons? Anyone thanked their local MP for it? Sorry, couldn't resist that ;)

FWIW, I agree that the servos seem to be taking advantage of the diesel minority and not attempting to be competitive with their pricing. But I also note that many of the more competitive ULP servos (Woolworths, 7 eleven) are the prime suspects in the business of ethanol-adulteration. I think it was Gilbarco who said something today about not honouring warranties when ethanol has caused engine damage. At least diesel seems to be free of such mixes.
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