I"'ve just had an "&interesting experience"' with a Nissan dealer in Qld (yes I do know I am not alone!!!) and need to bounce some ideas off other experienced people before I attempt to resolve the issues. I need to confirm a few things about my 4WD and how things work before I go back to the dealer (and their head office, Nissan head office & Office of Fair Trading, if necessary).
This may go on for a bit, so you may want to fetch a drink of some sort! I had several coffees while I typed the story (in the shortest version that would make sense)
Background: Problem is NATS malfunction in 2000 Nissan Patrol 4.2TD ¡V some may recall some of it as I posted to this
forum for advice about 2-3 weeks ago. Before deciding to attempt visit to dealer, I had my auto-electrician visit to fix brake controller and sort out earthing issue as advised in the helpful
feedback. I printed out relevant info from
forum to show him (being careful not to tell him how to "&suck eggs"', just ¡K. Here are some ideas from others who have my model of patrol and have had similar problems.) He located an earth wire with poor connections and fixed it, but the security indicator light continued to flash and the car continued to "&stutter"'. He could not locate an electrical cause for the problem, so I reluctantly arranged for a visit to the dealer, hoping that their dealer specific diagnostic
tools could locate the fault.
Below is the info I provided (in writing) to the service manager when I dropped it off the afternoon before the service date. I also put a copy of this info on the driver
seat, for the mechanic.
B'ground of Vehicle:
Patrol purchased 2nd hand early 2003, with cruise control and bullbar fitted - otherwise as factory- incl ABS and passenger air bag. Have since added electric trailer brake control (Tekonsha Voyager 9030) as patrol was purchased for towing horsefloat (2000kg loaded). Yes, the oil leak (injector pump) is on the "&to do"' list, as soon as I can drive again!
Owner: (I provided my contact details ¡V mobile and landline, with ans machine)
Quote: Required before you begin any major work. Ring me if you are not sure. I would like to know what you discover is the cause of the problem, what my options are and their costs.
There are several 'problems' - will describe each, in case they are related.
1. NATS malfunction? The security indicator light (on top of dash) last week started to flash intermittently and stay on for short periods when the car is driven. This is usually accompanied by a 'stuttering"'/intermittent loss of power. Much more pronounced at low speeds/lower gears. Only drove it
home (15kms) after I discovered this problem.
If the indicator light had not lit up, I would have interpreted the loss of power as some interruption to fuel supply (water, air, 'junk'). Thought the prob may relate to 'chip' in the key, so took a short
test drive with the reserve key - same prob. I have learned that NATS deals with security coded sound sys, remote central locking, engine immobiliser...so suspect other probs (outlined below) may be connected to this.
I am hoping that your diagnostic machines will be able to provide the info needed to get this sorted.
2. Remote Central locking - performance has been variable, sometimes not locking until I press button several times and aim at whatever?? magic spot. I was told that it just needed a new battery, but now I am wondering.
3. Sound system occasionally requesting a 'code"' though it still plays the radio and CDs. This started after I had the car battery replaced about 10 months ago. Where do I get this code from? No code was provided when I purchased the car from (another dealer) in Jan 2003. They sold it new, so would they still have the code?
I had an auto-electrician (named my usual auto elect, in the same town) fix a brake controller problem (mysterious brake lights that come on all on their own!) on Friday and he checked the car to try to eliminate auto-electrical issues as the source of the NATS problem. I"'m hoping that the diode he installed eliminates the brake light problem. I mention this in case it is related to the security indicator problem.
I have brought both keys in with the car in case any "&re-registering"' of keys is needed as part of the "&fixing"'.
(end of info given to dealer)
Now for the service¡K. (time to refill the drink???)
I was not filled with hope when I dropped off the Patrol, 2 keys and information sheet. I was the only customer there. The acting service manager pushed the information page away and handed me a blank piece of paper to write my name, address and contact details. I drew his attention to the info I had given and pointed out that all info (and more) was on that page. After I explained the nature of the problem, he asked why I was handing in 2 keys. I had to remind him that if he worked on NATS, he would likely have to re-register (or at least
check the registration of the keys). I drew his attention to the request for a quote and then headed
home.
The next day, I had heard nothing by 11.30, so called during my break to see if there was any news. I was told that they were just getting started on it and that he"'d contact me when they knew what the problem was.
3.45 ¡V still no call. Knowing mechanics start early and could soon go
home, I call again. I"'m told that they"'re still working on it and the only thing they can find wrong is the injector pump, so it must be causing the NATS malfunction. I find the explanation hard to believe (thanks to the many hours I spent on the internet ¡V thanks guys!- researching my Patrol) so ask him to explain how they have come to this conclusion. He babbles on about how the immobilizer will kick in when there is a problem with the engine. He warns me that injector pumps are not cheap ¡V about $6000 installed. I am stunned, but recover quickly to point out that we are talking about a diesel engine whose basic design has not changed that much over more than 20 years, except to be "&turboed"'. (Its basic time tested design was one of the things I liked about it.) I add that it does not have a "&you beaut"' sophisticated, computerized, engine management system hooked into the immobilizer, so I find his explanation hard to accept.
Then with an amazing sense of timing (or perhaps a growing awareness that this woman owner has been underestimated!), he tells me that the mechanic has just walked in ¡V give him a minute to get the latest. Amazing change ¡K mechanic has found a resistance in one of the wires to ground, has fixed the problem and is about to
test drive it. Gee, I wonder what happened to calling with a quote or explanation?? I figure that ii must have been a really cheap fix, so they did not bother.
4.03 ¡V service manager calls back ¡V all fixed. I"'m thinking that should not be too bad ¡V much better than the original discussion about $6000! I"'m thinking, some time to
test with superior diagnostic tools, find, fix,
test drive. For most
places ¡K$100 should cover it. Dealers ¡K.. say $200? Then he tells me it should not be much over $600! I question the cost and ask to get full details explained when I arrive to collect Patrol. He says he"'ll try to get it under $600 for me!
4.45 ¡V NOT HAPPY JAN! Invoice shows Patrol as a 3.0l TD, auto ¡V it"'s manual 4.2TD. Still not happy about cost, I ask about cost of labour ($102/hr) and how long they spent on Patrol (says it was a big job ¡V 5.6 hrs). I ask for an explanation of what was done and he explains that Patrol had a NATS fault (I knew that!), there was some resistance in a wire (could not tell me where as they could not find the fault), so ran a new wire (could not tell me where). Mechanics had gone
home. Words synonymous with "&ripped off"' start forming in my brain!
Description of work done as "&explained"' on invoice is reproduced below (complete with codes and interesting spelling) in case any of you can translate it. I really would like to know what you think it means. (I have emailed Principal Dealer requesting fully itemized invoice in plain English, as a first step)
RUNS POORLY AND NATS LIGHT FLASHING.
CHECKED CODES AND FOUND NATS FAULT. CHECKED WIRING FROM
IMMU UNIT TO CONTROL UMIT AND FOUND ALL OK. TESTED WIRE
FROM IMMU CSOLU FOUD HIGH RESISTANCE TO GROUND WIRE.
TRACED WIRES TO GROUND POINTS UNABLE TO LOCATE FAULT.
RAN NEW WIRE AS REQUIRED. AND RECHECKED RESISTANSE OK.
RECODED KEYS AND RELEARNED VALUES IN CONTROL UNIT.
REFITTED ALL REMOVED TRIMS AND ROAD TESTED ALL OK.
„« What are IMMU, CSOLU?
„« "(Ran new wire as required") = find it if you can? Or, temporary fix, as we could not find the fault?
„« Are they saying that they installed an earth/ground wire for $575
„« What trims needed to be removed? Is this why they changed my radio station, played the CD, did not reset the time and left the
seat in position for someone nearly a foot taller than me?
Since I needed my car for work, I paid up, checked the location of their head office and advised that I would be back in touch. Someone suggested that I should just have taken the Patrol
home; I should not have paid, since they did not quote as requested and the cost seems excessive. That sounds like fraud ¡V since they did do "&something"', though I have do have the option of making a formal complaint.
Later, after I got
home and "&cooled off,"' I noticed that their invoice clearly showed work commenced on patrol at 12.45 ¡V not when I called at 11.30. So the $522.75 (before GST) listed as labour covers 3 hrs and 15 mins ¡V since service manager phoned just after 4 to advise that patrol was fixed. $160 per hour ¡V even allowing for overheads, I am definitely in the wrong job. There are no charges listed for parts or materials ¡V whole cost is labour - $575.05 with GST.
Am I being unreasonable in my expectations? Does this sound like "&dodgy practices"'? Once I find out what the translated invoice means and how much others think the repair really is worth, I will contact the Principal dealer asking about the lack of quote and seeking a resolution ¡V at least a refund of the extra hours of labour I paid for.
Congratulations! You have made it to the end of my story. The question is ¡K do you still have time to reply?