Has the tyre fitter the right to condemn my 4wd tyre?

Submitted: Tuesday, Nov 26, 2002 at 01:00
ThreadID: 2469 Views:5355 Replies:13 FollowUps:19
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Middle of Nov 2002 I asked a Brisbane tyre fitting company to repair a nail hole in my 10 ply 4WD tyre. (A $300 tyre)
I showed the young apprentice the nail and the air escaping from around the small nail (2 inches long).
Before the work started I showed the apprentice a small superficial cut that the tyre had received 20000kms ago. I told him that the superficial cut had been checked by three tyre fitters and been declared safe to drive on by each one of the fitters. I wanted the nail hole repaired and I did not want the superficial cut touched/poked/pulled in anyway.
The apprentice said: "yes no problem we are going to take the tyre apart." (Meaning, "I am going to have a look at the nail and repair it")
The apprentice separated completely the tyre from the rim with the hydraulic tyre machine.
The apprentice then said immediately:" I can not repair that nail hole because the small cut looks bad and this is against health and safety workplace to repair such a tyre, you have to buy and other one. I can get you one brand new one now". I refused to buy a new tyre.
The apprentice refused to put back the tyre on the rim.
The tyre fitter manager was called and also refused to have the tyre put back on the rim. But as I am talking to the tyre fitter manager, the apprentice had grabbed my tyre and was trying to pierce the superficial cut with his fingernails. Unsuccessfully he then tried to pierce my tyre with a bolt lying around on the workbench. The apprentice was trying to prove, at any cost, my tyre was unsafe to drive, by piercing it.
The tyre fitter manager told me" under the Queensland Workplace and Safety a tyre fitter is not allowed to put back an "unsafe" tyre on the rim even if the "unsafe" tyre is not repaired or inflated".
Before the apprentice managed to pierce my tyre with a screwdriver I grabbed my tyre and my rim and drove back home.
From home I called the Queensland Department of Workplace and Safety who told this has nothing to do with them and they have not got such laws in Queensland regarding the fitting of good or bad tyre.
The Qld Dept of FairTrading (Consumer Affairs) told me that even with a bad tyre the "duty of care" is not a good enough reason to condemned a tyre or a car. Using "the Duty of Care " argument wrongly is simply against Queensland Consumer Laws.
With a tyre lever and my bead breaker plus a couple of patches it took me 30 minutes to repair my 4WD tyre.
Claiming duty of care or any other reasons from a tyre fitter or mechanic (unless asked to do so under the Licensed Road Worthy Certificate laws) is unlawful and a form of black mail.
This is the reason why serious car workshops and tyre fitters ask the customer to sign a protection declaration before any work starts.
What about if the mechanic is asked to repair my muffler and then decides to investigate the front suspension and declare my car unroadworthy. This type of action is unlawful.
Has the mechanic the right to condemn something he/she has not been asked to do?.
Actually without going into the details given to me by Fair Trading (Consumer Affairs) the mechanic has NO rights to repair or investigate something he/she has not been asked to do.
This type of action is against the law.
Mentioning the workplace and Safety, the Duty of Care are intimidating buzz words. Actually this is an illegal practice to do so in most cases.
Trying to wreck someone else tyre in public or in a workshop is actually a criminal act.
I'll be interested to hear from any of you who had any similar situations. Situations where you got conned, tricked and your rights got violated?
The Brisbane company is tel: 132381
Signed: " a confident consumer".
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Reply By: Savvas - Tuesday, Nov 26, 2002 at 01:00

Tuesday, Nov 26, 2002 at 01:00
I had a situation a long time ago, where a M!d@s muffler store tried to trick me. I had damaged a rear resonator on a VB Commodore so went in to get replaced.

They told me that if they placed an oxy to the exhaust pipe to cut off the resonator, that the rest of the exhaust system would explode. So they said for safety's sake they should replace the whole thing. My response was "get the card off the hoist now or I'm calling the cops". Left straight away, went to Everlast mufflers....$60, new resonator fitted in 20 minutes. Oddly enough, without an oxy going anywhere near it.

My brother took dad's car in for an alternator replacement. The auto electrician swapped out the alternator. He took out a 55amp alternator and put in a 25amp alternator. The car went back within the hour and I was watching them put in a 60amp. Their reasoning was that the car didn't need 55amps. Maybe so, but we handed over a heavy duty alternator and got back a piece of cheap crap. It's an exchange, not a downgrade.

Also with my current BFG A/T's, a nail went through the tread of one with only 1000kms on it. The proprietor of the G@@dyear tyre store I took it to for repair, bagged the crap out of the "cheap bleep " BFG's saying I should turf them and get a tough set of Goodyear Wranglers or Dunlop Grandtreks. They were on the backfoot when I told them that I actually traded in the standard crap Wrangler APs on a great set of BFG A/Ts.

In all cases they took me for a mug, and I gave them back some unexpected verbal abuse in full view of other customers. This always works wonders in adjusting their perspective. In the M!d@s case I watched two other customers leave as a result of my tirade at them. One waited outside and asked where I was going to get my car fixed and if she can follow me there.

AnswerID: 8990

Follow Up By: Ptk Melb - Tuesday, Nov 26, 2002 at 01:00

Tuesday, Nov 26, 2002 at 01:00
Hi savvas, Was everlast in sydney road Fawkner melbourne, as i have known the the two brothers who own it for about 20 years , nice guys with a fair price.

I used to work on cars there to pay for the work they did on my car
Bathurst 350 chev with 2 speed auto in a holden Hj sedan.
Long gone now, I currently own a 96 SSRG toyota Hilux Surf I Imported from Japan in May with every option & a Auto 3 litre turbo intercooled diesel. 115Kw's 360 Nm's
goes like a petrol motor and gets 10.8 klm's per litre on a run.
Love it!!!!!!!

cheers peter K
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Follow Up By: Savvas - Wednesday, Nov 27, 2002 at 01:00

Wednesday, Nov 27, 2002 at 01:00
It was Everlast in Taylor Square Sydney. Was easily 20 years ago though.
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Reply By: Old Soldier - Tuesday, Nov 26, 2002 at 01:00

Tuesday, Nov 26, 2002 at 01:00
G'day G,

i feel for you mate.

What you have here is a classic case of the politically correct, thumb sucking world we live in today.

Where the hell did the real Australia go???????

Dennis
AnswerID: 8991

Follow Up By: Truckster - Tuesday, Nov 26, 2002 at 01:00

Tuesday, Nov 26, 2002 at 01:00
I like you!

Im with you in where the hell has reality gone....

Everyone is scared to say or do anything anymore... Im not, people dont like it then theres always life line for those people.
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FollowupID: 4484

Reply By: Steve - Tuesday, Nov 26, 2002 at 01:00

Tuesday, Nov 26, 2002 at 01:00
G ... that's a pretty short name ! In a nutshell the answer is YES ..did you ever think of calling a tyre company for their comments ? I reckon I would be pretty happy to be told I have a seriously damaged tyre especially as I am no expert... a 10 ply tyre suggests you do a bit more than drive the bitumen .. so don't shaft the fitter who is obviously 'doing the right thing' nor his manager.... any wonder some 4wd drivers give us fellows with similar units a bad name....How many people do you really think that work in any Govt Dept have a clue of anything to do with tyres except red tape? If you went back on the road with this faulty tyre and had an accident that resulted in injury to a person who would you be trying to blame ? Gee whiz ..bet you dont want to know any of that !
AnswerID: 8993

Follow Up By: Royce - Tuesday, Nov 26, 2002 at 01:00

Tuesday, Nov 26, 2002 at 01:00
Your logic has won me over Steve. Fair enough comment. Passionate too! I suck [lollies]. Royce
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Follow Up By: G - Wednesday, Nov 27, 2002 at 01:00

Wednesday, Nov 27, 2002 at 01:00
Steve, It is obvious you did not read the fine details of my posting.
Three other tyre fitters declared my tyre safe (each one tested the tyre). See you next time in the workshop when your car is inpounded by your mechanic because it has a stone chip on your front windscreen. The behaviour of this tyre fitter is illegal and dishonest and very few people like myself have the knowledge and equipment to repair such a tyre and also the gusts to do it and say so in a forum like this one. Breaking the bid of a 4WD tyre is hard enough, putting it back together is as hard.
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Reply By: OziExplorer - Tuesday, Nov 26, 2002 at 01:00

Tuesday, Nov 26, 2002 at 01:00
Well who was the company in Brisbane.

The only time I nearly got badly ripped when I smelt a rat was at a Midas outlet. They tried to grossly overcharge for a brake job. They said everything was faulty and needed repairing. The vehicle had not done 100,000 k's and had been well maintained and the brake fluid flushed every twelve months. I took it to a RACV workshop, and all that needed doing was the brake pads needed replacing. The caliper seals etc that Midas said needed doing were perfect, and so was the master cylinder.
I now prefer to seek out privatly owned non-franchised businesses.
AnswerID: 8994

Follow Up By: Steve - Tuesday, Nov 26, 2002 at 01:00

Tuesday, Nov 26, 2002 at 01:00
OZI ............ take a run !! this started out as a bloke asking about a tyre problem not a crap throwing session against all the franchise operators who know nothing about the business that they are trying to manage/ make a buck out of !!!!
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Follow Up By: G - Wednesday, Nov 27, 2002 at 01:00

Wednesday, Nov 27, 2002 at 01:00
The company is BEAUREPAIRES in Brisbane.
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Reply By: Truckster - Tuesday, Nov 26, 2002 at 01:00

Tuesday, Nov 26, 2002 at 01:00
I would say it was an apprentice tryin to impress the boss by gettin a new tire sale

I would have picked up the tire and gone elsewhere. Tell em to Jam it.

Or theres always those self puncture repair kits...
AnswerID: 9007

Follow Up By: G - Wednesday, Nov 27, 2002 at 01:00

Wednesday, Nov 27, 2002 at 01:00
Truckster, thanks, that what I did, I repaired my tyre with my self puncture repair kit but I forgot to tell them to jam it. I won't forget next time.
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Reply By: sjaf - Tuesday, Nov 26, 2002 at 01:00

Tuesday, Nov 26, 2002 at 01:00
I dont know about QLD laws but here in Vic...if a customer came in to have an unroadworthy tyre repaired, i would send them on their way...simply because, as someone previously stated - if they drove away and an accident occured because of that tyre - then the tyre repairer would be responsible....and as you said "What about if the mechanic is asked to repair my muffler and then decides to investigate the front suspension and declare my car unroadworthy"...if the car is unroadworthy - it shouldnt be on the road....it is not unlawfull to declare it unroadworthy if that is true...it is everyones MORAL obligation to keep safe cars on the road....there are to many cheapskates/idiots who drive on bald tyres/worn brakes/broken globes and lens's - these people have no care for themselves or others on the road...unroadworthy cars shouldnt be on the road...the only repairs an unroadworthy car needs are the repairs to make it roadworthy...

"Oh MR Mechanic fix my muffler but dont worry about my unroadworthy suspension " - what an irresponsible thing to say and request, dont you think???
AnswerID: 9010

Follow Up By: Truckster - Wednesday, Nov 27, 2002 at 01:00

Wednesday, Nov 27, 2002 at 01:00
But then your going to have everyone going over your car with fine tooth comb lookin for anythign they can make money out of.....

Sorry mate your car cant leave my shop until you spent $4000 on repairs....

Oh it would happen!
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Follow Up By: G - Wednesday, Nov 27, 2002 at 01:00

Wednesday, Nov 27, 2002 at 01:00
Sjaf, no offence with your answer, but it is obvious you have not checked with Consummer Affairs or Health, Work ans Saftey. When a company MISUSE the DUTY of CARE issue it becomes a scam and a cheap sale and bullying tactic. Nothing to do with safety. Why don' t you get the ACT of parliament of your State and check what the reallity is rather than guessing a difficult issue.
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Reply By: royce - Tuesday, Nov 26, 2002 at 01:00

Tuesday, Nov 26, 2002 at 01:00
My son is a tyre fitter. I would like to think that he would have refused to fit a tyre that may have exploded, killing him and you. Now..... having said that, I would have probably done just what you did. Take it home, fit it and kept it as a spare. I reckon the thing to be really upset about was them trying to damage your tyre. They should have advised you of the dangers and given it back to you. Maybe they could have had you sign a release to say that you had been advised of the dangers. So... I know you feel angry, but I worry every day of the dangers my son faces. Work practices in the tyre industry are only just coming out of the dark ages. People still get killed, and certainly badly injured in that game. I am on your side. I woudn't have ditched the tyre. The kid did well and stood his ground. His boss shouldn't have let him poke around like he did. They lost a good customer.. dumb! Cheers Royce
AnswerID: 9020

Follow Up By: Steve - Tuesday, Nov 26, 2002 at 01:00

Tuesday, Nov 26, 2002 at 01:00
Royce : hopefuly the barbed wire fence doesn' t rip you apart.... but what are you trying to say ? If you think that checking out an r/s tyre with a 'prodger' is going to ruin a 10 ply tyre with a 2 inch gash ... you seem to pass over the fact that the tyre was rooted when brought in to the tyre service ..... as explained by the fitter and subsequently as was necessary ( you being such an abominable bastard as to argue that the fitter knew less than you !) by the manager ... Reality is that if a fitter / normal bloke is presented with a prick who wants a rat bleep tyre fixed he shoul dbe told to bleep off as was the case ..... and if you lost the use of an expensive tyre .... thats what 4wd costs are !!!

Now on the other hand ...... go suck a lolly ...........
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Follow Up By: Royce - Tuesday, Nov 26, 2002 at 01:00

Tuesday, Nov 26, 2002 at 01:00
Your logic has won me over Steve. Fair enough comment. Passionate too! I suck [lollies]. Royce
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Follow Up By: Mick - Saturday, Nov 30, 2002 at 01:00

Saturday, Nov 30, 2002 at 01:00
Don't forget that 3 other tyre fitters had examined and declared safe the same tyre. It is also the responsibility of the owner to have safe tyres or have I missed something??? .... If a policeman deems my tyres unroadworthy after I've had my car serviced can I take action against the person who serviced it?? Not likely!! So I don't think tyre fitters need to take such a self righteous stand - just do the work they're asked to do!! There's a brake franchise who I've found on 3 occasions when I've taken cars to them to have pads replaced (at a very good price) have quoted me for between $300 and $400 for additional work. I've simply said no thanks - just the $32.50 per wheel you advertise please. I don't use their services any more - got sick having to be forceful so just go to a place who does the work requested ...
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Reply By: Ptk Melb - Tuesday, Nov 26, 2002 at 01:00

Tuesday, Nov 26, 2002 at 01:00
As the gash was not to bad, remove the nail, put in a tube and tell them it is a spare tyre. I would never repair a tubeless tyre , but would tube it if it were punctured.They tried to con you into a new tyre Cost.
With a tube it would not have exploded in their faces.Maybe if the cut was bad enough it would have protruded through the trye as a bubble, they could have released the pressure before tube gave out. I'm not a tyre fitter but have seen the results of a cut tyre on the road and a big bubble stickink out of it. We were driving it at the time, reduced pressure to decrease the bubble and latter changed tyre.
Tubes & tyres are pretty tough!!!!!
Cheers Peter K
AnswerID: 9025

Follow Up By: G - Wednesday, Nov 27, 2002 at 01:00

Wednesday, Nov 27, 2002 at 01:00
Yes, using the tyre as a spare with a tube inside the tyre is an excellent idea but the tyre manager still refused. I always carry two spare tubes anyway to fit my tyre. But what has been missed all along this discussion ( I am not talking about your posting), with the exception of a few, is that the small superficial cut is only 2 millimetres deep. This superficial cut has not affected the internal steel wires and "nylon" wires of my tyre. This is not a split rim tyre either and for someonelse reply, a split rim tyre or any doubtful tyre should be inflated in a cage. As I said before this is using the "DUTY OF CARE" for profit. The "DUTY of CARE" misused is an offence under the Consummer Affairs act of Queensland.
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Reply By: chrisfrd - Wednesday, Nov 27, 2002 at 01:00

Wednesday, Nov 27, 2002 at 01:00
G..

I have used Beaus before, not a problem... Trying to damage the tyre... Woah! Call the cops!

Under NO circumstances are mechanics to impound or classify a vehicle as un-roadworthy, even if they are "approved vehicle inspectors" (for the purposes of re-registration). They aren't legally allowed to stop you from leaving the premisis with the vehicle, nor can they render a vehicle un-driveable! Even the parts that they replace are yours to take home if you wish! (Insurance repairs excepted)

Only the Police or an inspector from the transport department of the state can do this. Even the Police can have a hard time with defecting a vehicle, as it has to be bloody obvious! (by the way any inspector of any state can classify ANY vehicle as defective.)

I would have insisted that the little ***cker replace the tyre if he had damaged it, or I would have stated that I would be intending to file for small-claims action. Usually the threat is enough to start the guy sweating!

Have done this against an un-named computer company, (that may rhyme with Pell), when they sold me a computer with a faulty battery. They settled it with me before they had to hire a lawyer to represent them at court! But this is off-topic.


AnswerID: 9051

Reply By: sjaf - Wednesday, Nov 27, 2002 at 01:00

Wednesday, Nov 27, 2002 at 01:00
In response to truckster and G...I know i cant hold a customer car if it is in my opinion unroadworthy...But I wouldnt want the responsibility of repairing one thing and having some other component fail after it left the workshop...does that make sense?...good workshops can only inform the customer of what needs to be done and then its up to the customers...goodwork shops make enough money out of honest business from honest customers...thats the truth...there is no need to scam anybody...Im not saying they were right to force you to buy a new tire..but a stuffed tire is a stuffed tire.

it is illegal to repair sidewall damage - it is the weakest part of the tire, i know you said you had a nail in the tread or whatever, but if i see a nail in the tread and ignore the sidewall it would be careless...many a time i have stripped a tire down only to find that it was not repairable after it had come apart...if your tire was not right to be repaired thats life..thats the law where you live - you werent forced to buy another and you didnt...i agree they didnt go about things the right way - customer service is what they are lacking the most i think..
AnswerID: 9053

Follow Up By: Truckster - Wednesday, Nov 27, 2002 at 01:00

Wednesday, Nov 27, 2002 at 01:00
What about truck tire sidewall repairs??

I went up and down the hwy for 8 yrs and lots of tires had patched sidewalls.... or patches on the sidewalls..
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Reply By: bruce.h - Thursday, Nov 28, 2002 at 01:00

Thursday, Nov 28, 2002 at 01:00
i think this topic is like a trye full of hot air & going in circles,by the way why didnt you go back to one of the other 3 who sied the tyre was safe???????
AnswerID: 9079

Follow Up By: G - Friday, Nov 29, 2002 at 01:00

Friday, Nov 29, 2002 at 01:00
Bruce I am not talking about driving around the capital cities. I am talking about real 4WDrving and real life situation. Can't you guess why I did not go back "to the 3". Because I did not have a nail in my tyre at that time.The "other 3" as you put it are 2000 to 4000 kms away in North QLD and NT. Is that answer good enough for you.
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FollowupID: 4554

Follow Up By: Bruce.H - Friday, Nov 29, 2002 at 01:00

Friday, Nov 29, 2002 at 01:00
HAY G
no need to get upity, puting aside the insinuation that i wouldn,t no 4wding if it bit me on the bum,if you are going to place a topic to a forum such as this you have got to expect response from all different angles,having said that fair cop on not being able to go back to the other 3,but i was not to know where they were.if it,s practical advice you want & you truely believe you have a legitimate case agianst this company contact the ministry of fair trading or it s equivalant in your state & they will take up the issue on your behalf. because i reitorate this subject is like a trye full of hot air & going in circles
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Reply By: LkPatrol - Thursday, Nov 28, 2002 at 01:00

Thursday, Nov 28, 2002 at 01:00
Can't help noticing the "slight" hint of bias in a few of the more fiery responses. These guys wouldn't be involved in the tyre / motor repair trade by any chance ?
Reminds me of the huge "safety" catch cry from the VACC re: the proposal for compulsory annual roadworthy tests...even though the RACV has clearly demonstrated that mechanical faults are NOT one of the major factors in road accidents - Driver error is. ....call me cynical, but it seems a bit of self interest might be involved here, as this would have been a huge money spinner for the industry..
Stories of mechanics "over servicing" and replacing perfectly good parts are not exactly rare.
Why attack the guys who are simply expressing their opinions ?...this forum is supposed to be a friendly exchange of ideas
AnswerID: 9089

Follow Up By: Steve - Thursday, Nov 28, 2002 at 01:00

Thursday, Nov 28, 2002 at 01:00
Steve here.. --- fiery response candidate.....I have no interest in the tyre industry, do not work in the motor industry, and will say what I think is correct at all times !! As a user of 10 ply tyres know that a 2 inch gash as described in such a unit would be a recipe for disaster... they are made to run on around 70 psi, and with the witch hunting that has been going on to hang a couple of blokes for standing up to an 'expert' owner who has no experience but a big mouth and a tirade of abuse to back his opinion, I am happy to take their 'experienced' view before those of a penny pinching twirp. Maybe the fitter and manager would like to put their version of events on the site !! Would the damage be so slight ?
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Follow Up By: G - Friday, Nov 29, 2002 at 01:00

Friday, Nov 29, 2002 at 01:00
LkPatrol I agree with you. Tyre fitting is not about safety but about money. How many large-companies-tyre-fitters/mechanics have done a poor job, wrecked something on my vehicle and told me how negligent I was. To-day I can count about 8 serious incidents.
When it comes to Steve. Thank you Steve for your high morals and High philosophy of "do gooder" but it is obvious that after 300 lines of posting you still haven't vizualised anything. Are you one of the tyre-fitter/tyre company rep? which one?At the moment many posting, from others, have offered many positive preventive/redressing solutions, using tubes, knowing that side walls are legally repaired/patches/retread on truck, the possibility of calling the police, calling the manager and high office(done), victorian laws similar etc. Steve you have not contributed to anything except trying to insulte me by using provocative words. Remember Steve I am searching for a practical solution. I am not after a counseller or Mummy or Daddy or a politician.
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Reply By: Peter - Tuesday, Dec 03, 2002 at 01:00

Tuesday, Dec 03, 2002 at 01:00
To all, It seems to me that if SOME people feel the need to use insulting words etc etc then maybe they should be edited/deleted!

As "G" has indicated, the other "responders" have offered a variety of different advice but all with goodwill.

To concure and add to others comments, it's a free world - if the tyre outlet's staff don't want to repair the tyre for whatever reason, then thats their choice and they should not be asked to re-install the tyre for FREE, however, given that G indicates that the gash is only very shallow and no "structure" of the tyre has been damaged it is outrageous to consider that it could have been deliberately damaged by a screwdriver in order to make the point.

Peter L
AnswerID: 9277

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