CHEATING CAR YARD UP DATE have your say in court

Take the car back and get your money back.
I think you will find a clause in the contract that gives a period where you can take it back if you aren't happy and get a refund. Not sure if there is a fee but it may make you sleep alot better.

Rudu,

To me the books are all important.

I would not buy a vehicle without books, nor would I buy a vehicle with "recreated books". Doesn't matter how good it looks or how good the deal seems, there are always other vehicles out there that have a genuine service history.

Have you tried going to Nissan HQ to complain about the dealer? In your situation I would demand my money back.

Cheers

Time

ruda,

“without prejudice”

Which 4wd would you buy if two cars were identical, one with log books with a full service history or one with dodgy books eg not original with out a service history?
….Only an absolute fool would buy the vehicle without the log books and also without the service history, IF the two vehicles were as you say identical, including appearance, options, Klms and price!
I question the terminology of your statement “with dodgy books eg not original” are you implying the log books are there, but they are ‘doctored’ or showing false, misleading or untrue information that the Nissan dealer has himself stated to you as being the ORIGINAL log books for the vehicle?

How much more money would you value a car with log books and a full service history to one with out.
….Depends on the warranty offered on both identical vehicles, as a warranty that is for 3 or 4 years and 30 to 40 thousand klms on a vehicle is consumer peace of mind as to the mechanical condition that can be expected, and if you have driven the vehicle and checked it out yourself and you are happy with it, then I see no reason to know the previous history IF it is a low Klms vehicle ??

And what do you think about a NISSAN dealer that sells a car GUARANTEEING they have the log books for the car and then can’t produce them after the sale.
….He did not give you the total package as you have been sold, which would have included the log books, as he stated to you he did have them, as to why he did not give you the log books is another question, if they NEVER existed in the first place and he lied to you just to make a sale then he is not worthy of retaining his Motor Vehicle Dealers Licence and a decision should be made to take legal action.

As to PAIN, appears you are going through it :-(

Mate! there is no way that this cars value would be the same without logbooks. Without logbooks, there would be no way of gaugeing how well the car was looked after. Without logbooks, I would not rate this vehicle at all.

Without knowing how much you paid and what model you got, it would be hard to put a figure on the vehicle. My own opinion is I would not have considered to purchase in the first place.

This Nissan Dealer, if they are honest should back out of the deal quickly and give you your money back before you go to Fair Trading and/or court. The dealer certainly cant say they have logbooks when they have'nt.

Confirms what they say about some used car salesmen.
These guys are probably thinking they might have got away with it.
Also then can you trust the odometer?

Pedirka
Qld

its really a no brainer.
1 vehicle has log books and service history.
2 indentical vehicle/ks no log books.probly an old renta car/mine vehicle thats why theres no books.
wouldnt touch vehicle 2 with a 10 foot pole.
price diference is imposible to say.
how much worse can a vehicle with no books really be(note sarcasm).
screw them in court coz they screwed you in the yard.
cheers

send me a email and Ill give send a valuation on line no charge

There are HEAPS of cars for sale all over the place. Unless the car was worth below $5,000 I wouldn't even bother to look at something without logbooks. There are always other cars. Maybe if it was 40% below price? But only maybe, as I'm not rich enough to buy cheap stuff;-)

If the dealer has indicated in writing that he is selling "a car with logbooks" and then he only sold "a car" then he has not met his obligations under the sale contract.

Price of Car+(price of)logbooks= sale price

Price of Car=sale price-logbooks ??

You paid sale price didn't you?

IMHO, looks like he owes you some money, or the contract is void. I'd personally give him the car back and buy something else. There are a few halfways decent dealers around who credit customers with some intelligence. Do a search on this forum. Eg. PhilGilbert in Sydney is really good for new toyotas. No I don't work for them but I almost bought a car off them a few months ago.

Hi,

If you're that fussed about a log book, you probably should not have taken delivery without it!
However, since you have that truck now and maybe even like it, consider this:
If it looks alright, drives alright and feels alright, just get the services done that you think it may have missed out on, right now.
A Patrol with those k's could have missed a few oil changes (bad), but otherwise, there is not that much "vital" stuff that needed to be done. First coolant change is at 80,000 or 4 years, same for brake fluid. Rear diff should have been done at 40,000. Front wheel bearings at 40,000, but if it hasn't been under water much, I would prefer that the dealer apprentices don't touch them. Anything else is probably in the category "be thankful nobody stuffed around with it".
Cheers

Hi rudu, mate nail them in court, wether your happy with the vehicle or not is not the issue. The issue is that you were promised the log books (GENUINE) not just a new book with an updated service history, and they didn't deliver what you were promised. As said how do you know what oil changes were or have been done, as we all know vital for diesels. As for the value of the vehicle hard to say but would definately make a difference to the value. I have a 89 hilux 2.8 diesel have every service stamped since day one 5K every receipt for money spent on the vehicle since new, air, fuel,oil, oil it'self,tyres, wheel alignments you name it it's there, I change the oil every 2500klms including filter (genuine), tell me that if my'n was sitting next to another hilux side by side same klms same age and looked just as good,same accessories, BUT the other one had no service history, no log books which one would you buy, Thats why mine has books because I won't purchase any vehicle without them full stop. If I ring up on the phone to ask a person about the vehicle the first thing I ask does it have up to date log books if not I say thankyou not interested.I dont even keep them in my glove box incase some one breaks into my car and takes them just for the hell of it. Mate take the (Excuse the expression) pricks to court and nail them to the wall there a@@holes for what they have done to you. Good luck Take Care Vitara

Hi Rudu, Thought the dealer may have the sense to let you out of the contract.

I would only buy a vehicle with log books and have walked away from good looking and well priced trucks because of them not having or having dodgey log books.

If money was an issue.....Since most problems that occur through poor servicing may cost big dollars you would have to be a gambling man to buy one without the books. If the truck was only 3 year old or so I think it matters less. If it is 6 years plus then I would guess most repairs could cost $5000 plus for major probelms.
I would need to feel the vehicle looked and drove ok and would only take the risk if it were say 20% below market value.

These vehicles are pretty good even if servicing has been let slip for a bit. But like all of us years of abuse take thier toll.

Any dealer who lies to make a sale and I ahve met many that I have uncovered their lies do not deserve to have a licence. LIES LIES LIES

My last piece of advice. You can't change the world and court is not for being right or exacting revenge. The only people who win are the lawyers.

Perhaps cut your lossed and ensure you let everyone know who the guy is and perhaps someone will pay him a visit.

Skinny

Hi Rudu

Your best course of action is too talk to a legal firm (if you haven't already) that has expertise in these matters. Clearly the issue has caused you great concern, and if the legal firm believes you can mount a case against the car yard get them to write the letter to them.

A letter from a legal firm indicates you are serious about the matter and is more likely to get the attention you deserve.

Regards

Rudu
Taking into account the advice of motoring organisations such as the RACQ and NRMA, I would not buy a vehicle without a demonstrated satisfactory service history. From the comments of vehicle manufacturers in service handbooks, I am convinced that poor servicing affects the life and value of the vehicle, and also has connotations for the safety of the driver and passengers.

Because of the distinct possibility that a vehicle could have been a hire car or could otherwise have operated in harsh conditions and without adequate servicing in accordance with the maker's specifications, a vehicle without log books would in my estimation be worth wholesale value only. As stated above I would not buy the vehicle, however a 20% reduction in price would be expected by others I have spoken with.

Dealers purport to be the experts on the particular make of vehicle and the representatives of the vehicle manufacturer. Vehicle makers limit the number of dealerships available and provide special rewards, incentives and other support to dealerships. A customer is informationally disadvantaged in negotiating with a dealer and has the expectation, promoted by dealers and manufacturers, that he/she will be a valued client and will be dealt with decently, responsibly and fairly in the purchase, ongoing servicing and maintenance, and eventual sale of the manufacturer's product.

Service records are a key control in the servicing and warranty of a vehicle and are relied upon by the dealer and manufacturer in the servicing of the vehicle and in any dispute with the client.

In view of thses points alone it would be unfair and in my view unconscionable for a dealer to warrant that a vehicle has log books available - and this also would be taken normally to means that the dealer had secured possession of service history and (that) service history met the manufacturer's standards) - and then supply substitute records which do not meet the dealer's nor the manufacturer's own policies for the completion and maintenance of satisfacory service records. There is also the point that dealers do not rely entirely on paper documents but have access to electronic records via the dealership network.

I believe the dealer and indirectly the manufacturer have a responsibility to provide frank and full advice to an intending purchaser of any known detriment to the operation, safety and value of the vehicle prior to sale.

So in answer to your question, I am not satisfied that the dealer has taken all steps available to it to resolve your dispute and I regard its conduct to date as related by you to be unfair, bullying and probably unconscionable.

I do not think quantum of loss needs to be addressed until the dealer has convinced the Court or independent arbiter that it has exhausted all reasonable steps to procure the service history.

EV700

Rudu,

I am sorry to read about your predicament. For you to go to court you need EVIDENCE. Certainly records from a post like this will not carry any weight in court.

From what i have read you seem to be running this case in contract law . I am by no means an expert in this area but as a minimum you will need to establish:

(a) existance of a contract
(b) the log books being an essential term of the contract
(c) a breach of the term
(d) the benefits of a particular remedy ie damages/rescind the contract

The breach element may be able to be made out on the contract. Read it all very carefully. Was the provision of the logbooks an ESSENTIAL TERM? When were they to be provided by etc ?

Secondly, did the contract specify what would occur if there was a breach of a term of the contract ie. a right to rescind the contract within a certain time period etc.

If you are attempting to establish the damage i would obtainat least three written appraisals from registered valuers. These WRITTEN appraisals should be very SPECIFIC and relate to your vehicle. It would be ok for the valuers to provide a range in depreciation ie worth $1500-$3000 less.

For my two bobs worth I think the court would be reluctant to award you "damages" in such a case. Should you want to rescind the contract (get your money back and give back the car) i think you may have a reasonable case.

While i do not wish to discourage you, be warned contract is a technical and complex area of the law.

What Court are you going to? What are the costs rules for this Court ie if you loose are you going to have to pay the other parties legal costs? Be mindful of this.

Getting a lawyer may be a good idea, but representation and advice is unlikely to be cheap. You need to try and weigh up the risks and the econmics of the case (which i appreciate is very difficult). A lawyer may say you have a weak case and certainly do not give a guarantee of success? If you win and it is a no costs award jurisdiction the lawyers fees may be more than you are awarded.

Have you looked at the TRADE PRACTICES ACT, if not see it here at:

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_act/tpa1974149/

You may find these laws are a more effective way of protecting your rights. In particular consider Section 52 (misleading and deceptive conduct) and Section 82 (damages).

This is a commonwealth act and you may not be able to rely on these laws in the state court you are going to? If your not sure call the court and ask if they have jurisdiction to hear a matter under the TPA.

Good luck. My advice to you would be to put pressure on the dealer and try to SETTLE.

Be careful going to Court. You wont get justice and if your lucky you will get the law.

Regards
Dezmo

Hi Rudu

I've been watching you story with interest as I had the exact same thing happen, NISSAN To!!!! , but at the time I didn't have the head space to follow it up, (Plus the Pathfinder I traded was on its last legs)....

Anyway, My advice.... Make an Appointment with your local Chamber Magistrate, they will tell you if you have a case and can be very helpful, I have even had the write legal letters for me!!! This is a free service, and will give you an Idea if you should follow through or swollow and walk away.

if its worth chasing, then call the "Civil Justice Centre". They will "invite" the dealer to a mediation and thy have 2 weeks to reply. They probably wont, but it is all recorded, so if you do take it to court, you will have a clear history of trying to resulve the problem and it will apper to the judge that you tried to avoid court but were left with no option by the dealer, Judges hate people using courts to setle pety matters unless its a last resort.

If you follow this path it may

1 avoid getting to court
2 lessen the cances of you loosing
3 lessen the risk of you being landed with "expences" for both parties.

I've followed this prociedure for a number of problems with and it has worked every time

Log books are nice, but dont put absolute faith in them as the 'gospel' , for one they wont tell you if its a lemon and spent half its life in the shop getting warranty repairs done, and they also can be 'sweetened' up easily.

eg - i did a service on a traded in vx commodore once, 40,000k , NEVER serviced !! About 2.5 litrers of black tar came out of the sump, and bugger me, a week later it turned up out in the yard all detailed up and meeting the guise of a "holden approved used vehicle' WITH a full comprehensive service history all stamped up nicely... I doubt brocky would put his thumb up to that one :-)

I'll keep it simple for you:

1. I probally wouldn't buy the car at all without log books, not for that kind of money anyway ($40,000).

2. I'd have to be swayed pretty heavily to buy it, they'd have to offer me at the VERY LEAST $5000 off the going price, and even then I'd proablly still look around for a comparable vehicle and pay the $5k more. I'd feel happier that way.