Which is the best, EXTRACTORS or HEADERS

Submitted: Tuesday, Jul 26, 2005 at 18:28
ThreadID: 25074 Views:7597 Replies:8 FollowUps:7
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Hi ya , Im looking at replacing the exhaust system on my 78series troopie(1hz motor) in a couple of weeks, just wanting to know what im better off getting for bottom end power(will be towing a campertrailer,doing alot off road.). Headers or Extractors and what brand.
Also what size exhaust piping and does any1 in perth know of any good priced exhaust shops.
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Reply By: Exploder - Tuesday, Jul 26, 2005 at 18:41

Tuesday, Jul 26, 2005 at 18:41
They are basically the same thing with a few small differences Extractor’s are just what we Australian’s call them.

Getting back on track, I believe that Extractors are the best for low-end power just in there design.

Generally Between 2.5 to 3 inches gets the best resalt but a good shop will build a system to suet what you are after.
AnswerID: 122163

Reply By: Member - Matt Mu (Perth-WA) - Tuesday, Jul 26, 2005 at 20:48

Tuesday, Jul 26, 2005 at 20:48
As said, they are the same thing! The difference is in the type of header, ie tuned length or interferance fit! I doubt you will get a tuned length extractor for a 78, so an off the shelf interferance fit will do fine! I would talk to a specialist 4wd fitter, like TJM in the Gabba or Motsons etc as to what they have found works the best for a 78, might find complete setup systems for your rig!

Should have been done heaps otherwise just go 2.5" with freeflow muffler and a good header, like lukey, genie or hurricane!
Goodluck!

Matt
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Reply By: viz - Tuesday, Jul 26, 2005 at 21:41

Tuesday, Jul 26, 2005 at 21:41
HM Headers in Melbourne. Good gear, not cheap though.

HM Headers

/viz
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Reply By: Alex H - Tuesday, Jul 26, 2005 at 21:54

Tuesday, Jul 26, 2005 at 21:54
G'day,
I got a 2.5'' exhaust done at a very reasonable price a few years ago by some mob in Osborne Park. It was totally custom built to sit up above the chassis rails and not compromise ground clearance. I didn't use extractors, and the cost was about $350 from memory.
I can't remember what they were called, but Russell Booth at ARB in Osborne Park put me on to them, so he might well be able to point you in the right direction.
Cheers,
Alex
AnswerID: 122202

Reply By: Member Eric - Tuesday, Jul 26, 2005 at 23:21

Tuesday, Jul 26, 2005 at 23:21
Sorry guys , i beg to differ , Extractor and headers are not the same thing , usually extractors and a multipul manifild that can be at tuned lenghts . Headers on the other hand work with the vehicles firing order to help extract the exaust gasses

Regards EC
AnswerID: 122221

Follow Up By: Member - Matt Mu (Perth-WA) - Tuesday, Jul 26, 2005 at 23:51

Tuesday, Jul 26, 2005 at 23:51
Eric,
Sorry Eric I beg to differ slightly. Header and extractor are both the same just different names, prob depends on what state you grew up or how many american mags you read as a kid!

Both are exhaust manifolds that use the runners to help expediate the flow of gasses out of the engine. They do so by having runners that are timed to correspond with the firing order to use the momentum of the previous cylinders exhaust gas to help move the new one along! Called savenging!
The two types of extractor (or header) is tuned length or interferance fit. Int fit first...this is an off the shelf header that a manufacturer has made up on an example of the engine eg Holden 202, 6 pipes into 3 into 2 into 1! You can buy it off the shelf and bolt on and hey presto a decent gain!

Then Tuned length, where you have YOUR engine on a dyno and the builder will make up a set of headers that typically has all of the runners exactly the same length and the small adjustments are made to increase power for your engine! ie Holden V8, the extractors on one side all dump into one pipe 4 into 1, the front runner 1, is pretty straight pipe, but number 7 is doing loops to keep the length the same into the collector!

I think this is the same as 'Blower or supercharger' debate, just depends on who taught you as to what you believe is the correct term!!

My 2 cents!

Matt.
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Follow Up By: Member Eric - Wednesday, Jul 27, 2005 at 07:53

Wednesday, Jul 27, 2005 at 07:53
Hi Matt , its been 20 years since i finished my Enginners in HP engines ,and back then , that was the definishion between both off the shelf items . If you had a custom set made as you stated , you have to call them headers . As to making a set up on a dyno for optimum performans , we did this and i remember it takin 8 weeks lol . In the end , I still dont think we got it right . It was a eye opener to see what diffrent HP reading uo igotwith 10 mm of extra pipe lol . A little like when we use to make ram tubes to capture the fuel splash back off the valves .

Regards EC

If terms have changed since then, ill stand corrected lol .

Ps , I did my time in oz and not America also lol
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Follow Up By: Member Eric - Wednesday, Jul 27, 2005 at 08:25

Wednesday, Jul 27, 2005 at 08:25
Matt , just add something extra , my personal beliefe these days , is that MOST and I do say most , exaust manifolds today will run just as eficiant as a set of ordinary extractors/headers. To see a real performance diffrence , I would say that you would have to spend some serious dollars on a custom set. The years I spent on dyno's we spent many a day freaking people out on how little diffrence the new $1000 exaust reaL made , or how sometimes it went back wards lol . But then we will always have the people who increase HP from turning there air filter lids upside down and gain 300 hp lol

Have a great day mate , and thanks for your view

regards EC
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Follow Up By: vitara - Wednesday, Jul 27, 2005 at 09:13

Wednesday, Jul 27, 2005 at 09:13
Hi there Eric, yes and no in regards to wether they run better or not, I had a VL commodore turbo 88 model changed over the original manifold as it was cracked and put on a set of extractors 2 n half in system as the cost of a new manifold was a lot dearer car ran like a pig, had more power with the original exhaust so I paid the dollars and put all new original back on again, went like a dream nice n quit smooth, my 89 hilux 2.8 diesel craked my manifold 4wding (being a dic@head) and had a piece of timber come up under neath and just missed the oil filter and hit the manifold cracking it knowing the price of toyota parts put a set of genie extractors on and a 2 n a half inch system on it noticed a huge improvement in pulling up hills over the original system top speed no better just pulls better and believe me with a 2.8 diesel you need every little power gain you can get. I agree with you that most would not notice any power difference on most modern day vehicles, and with all the electronic stuff they use eg oxygen sensors etc you have to be careful not to upset the computer. Have a good day Take Care Vitara
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Follow Up By: Member - Matt Mu (Perth-WA) - Wednesday, Jul 27, 2005 at 18:34

Wednesday, Jul 27, 2005 at 18:34
Eric I will agree with both your follow ups!! I do believe that most modern cars now have an exhaust manifold that has tuned runners, unlike the old stuff that just dumped 4 or 6 into one outlet in a cast manifold!
I slotted a Swift import 1600 16 valve into my sierra and what a dream, but unfortunately I couldnt keep the cast manifold which was a tuned header due to it conflicting with the engine mount...had to throw on Vitara extractors off an EFI!
I think there will always be differences in what people are taught as far as terms or terminology goes.....no harm in that!
I certainly would love to catch up with you and hear some of oyur experiences...I only get to work on standard diesels and nothing real flash at that!!!
Matt.

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Reply By: Wizard1 - Wednesday, Jul 27, 2005 at 13:52

Wednesday, Jul 27, 2005 at 13:52
Eric,
perhaps you should run a spell check over your posts in future. Perhaps you didn't need to know english when you did "enginners". Reading your posts is extremelly difficult when you have to translate it into english or is it inglish.

Sorry if those of you that have difficulty with written english are offended, but for the rest of us, we find it frustrating that people would be prepared to make us all suffer through their poor spelling and grammar.

AnswerID: 122285

Follow Up By: Shaker - Wednesday, Jul 27, 2005 at 14:44

Wednesday, Jul 27, 2005 at 14:44
Well don't read it then!

I suspect by inference in Erics comprehensive Simpson Desert trip report that he is of Greek extraction, & most probably has a much better command of the English language, than you have of his.
As far as spellcheck goes, this site does not have that facility, & it would be cumbersome to have to type out posts in another program in order to take advantage of spellcheck. I must admit, that I do find it annoying with posts being punctuated with "lol".

I, also take exception to mispelt words, but only by professional wordsmiths, such as advertising agencies & journalists.

My suggestion in the case of forum posts, is to 'live & let live' or just simply 'get over it'!
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Follow Up By: Leroy - Wednesday, Jul 27, 2005 at 19:43

Wednesday, Jul 27, 2005 at 19:43
hmmm I think it's more important for people to contribute to the site then ......hmmmm....no, than... than people who criticise others!

Leroy
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Reply By: cj - Wednesday, Jul 27, 2005 at 16:04

Wednesday, Jul 27, 2005 at 16:04
Do some calling around a few different exhaust places as they don't always stock the same brands. You could find anywhere from zero to a few options available for any given model amongst the different brands. I would suggest seeing if any of the Tri-Y style are available as these would be better for your use as they tend to improve the bottom to mid range. As has been mentioned each engine will respond differently depending on how good the factory parts are and what other mods if any you have. But don't expect a night and day performance change. You may find it a bit more responsive and pulling a touch harder but the average person finds it hard to feel a difference in a 5-10% increase.

Yes, as far as I'm aware headers and extractors are the same thing just depends what you were taught or where you grew up and custom built were just called custom extractors/headers. Used to do exhausts for a job many years ago.
AnswerID: 122306

Reply By: Member - DOZER- Wednesday, Jul 27, 2005 at 16:06

Wednesday, Jul 27, 2005 at 16:06
Guys
If we look at this a little different....$$ vs driveability....you cant go past a turbo...yes i know thats not what was asked, but why get a little more down low when you can get alot more down low with a turbo....not to mention sooooo much more pleasureable to drive......just dont go in there asking for it to go like a 4.5....it wont..... and if it is setup to try, the motor will suffer....just a nice well setup system from a reputable supplier, and replace the large muffler with a straight through one, and it wont be any noisier either.
Extracters and headers dont like vibration and usually crack on a 1hz.
Andrew
b4 you bag me out, walk a mile in my shoes, then your a mile away and have my shoes :)

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