LC100 Service - Would you like fries with that ?

Submitted: Friday, Jul 29, 2005 at 11:04
ThreadID: 25155 Views:2336 Replies:15 FollowUps:30
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Just dropped my petrol LC100 off at Toyota for a service and was offered the traditional extra $99 fuel injection service. I've always considered this a bit of McDonalds style sales technique and said no thanks, as I did this time. The salesman had quite a long pitch which sounded like it would convince a lot of people but I didn't really understand it and don't remember much except that it 'cleans out the system'. Just wondering if anyone thinks there is any value at all in it ?
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Reply By: crfan - Friday, Jul 29, 2005 at 11:08

Friday, Jul 29, 2005 at 11:08
If Toyota recomended it it would be in the service book and it's not........
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Follow Up By: Longreach - Friday, Jul 29, 2005 at 11:56

Friday, Jul 29, 2005 at 11:56
Thanks crfan. In general I agree, and that's the position I have taken for some years. I suppose my question is whether this could be of some use even though it isn't in the service handbook, perhaps someone has done it and noticed some improvement ?

Also, I had an argument with the dealer a while back on a similar issue as to how often they should flush out the cooling system because what they claimed was different to the handbook. In the end they showed me documentation that Toyota had changed the maintenance schedule and they were following the Toyotra spec.

The other thing is that there is a clever little 'out' in the service handbook where it specifies what is to be carried out and it goes along the lines of "You should carry out this, this and this AND whatever your Toyota Dealer recommends" which does leave it very open ended.
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Follow Up By: garrycol - Friday, Jul 29, 2005 at 13:23

Friday, Jul 29, 2005 at 13:23
Its called a $15 bottle of injector cleaner and $80 labour for pouring it in.
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Follow Up By: Member - George (WA) - Friday, Jul 29, 2005 at 14:46

Friday, Jul 29, 2005 at 14:46
My diesel injectors (80 series L/C) have never been touched. 458,000 km on the clock. Not blowing any smoke, except if you plant the foot.
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Follow Up By: Member - Bill S (NSW) - Saturday, Jul 30, 2005 at 17:46

Saturday, Jul 30, 2005 at 17:46
HI Pezza, I do hearby accept your appolagy and be assured I am one that has been in this world some 60plus years and can assure you thay I am the person who HELPS those less fortunate than I. And I do only offer truthful advice as I know it. And the product that I preach has already helped thousands in their endevours to save money in our present environment. Regsards BILL
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Reply By: joc45 - Friday, Jul 29, 2005 at 12:14

Friday, Jul 29, 2005 at 12:14
Been down the same road - Diesel injector cleaner, engine oil flush at ridiculously low kms, power steering flush at low kms (they have a Castrol sales-aid on the counter - 3 vials of fluid; old and dark, medium, new and light to justify the flushing and changing of the fluid).
With the power steering:
Is it recommended in the handbook?
"No, but the fluid looks very dark".
But I ran a GQ for 250,000 without it getting dark.
"The GU is a heavier vehicle and the power steering works harder".
But the GU has a cooler that the GQ didn't have, so it should run cooler and longer.
"Well, it's dark and needs changing". Then they show you the Castrol plug "see that's what it looks like".
No thanks.
Gerry
AnswerID: 122700

Reply By: Member - Bill S (NSW) - Friday, Jul 29, 2005 at 12:40

Friday, Jul 29, 2005 at 12:40
HI , After being in the trade for some 25years do understand why they put this to you as it is a genuine reason as the fuels we buy are not NEW, so Iif you had a FITCH fitted no such service is ever required again on your fuel system. Also you will find you will be travelling a further 50 to 70 klms further on every tank of fuel to top this off you will also be keeping you engine oil cleaner as pollution to your engine oil is dramatically reduced, and your car will be emitting 50% less into OUR atmosphere. Take no notice of negative remarks in relation to this product as those remarks are from uneducated people in relation to advancements in todays technology with fuels. The FITCH is re-refining the fuel it comes into contact with so you will never run your engine on stale fuel even if its been stored for lengthy periods once its treated its new again. And in relation to your question yes there is value in inj clean but BETTER value in FITCH.

Happy motoring BILL

AnswerID: 122703

Follow Up By: Member - Matt Mu (Perth-WA) - Friday, Jul 29, 2005 at 13:58

Friday, Jul 29, 2005 at 13:58
What a shameless plug with absolutley no relevance to the original post!!

How could you possible twist a question relating to Dealer servicing into a plug for YOUR catalyst??

Another AVERTORIAL hey!!!

I dont think anyone here minds good informative posts, thats why we are here...but that was disgusting!
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Follow Up By: Moggs - Friday, Jul 29, 2005 at 14:20

Friday, Jul 29, 2005 at 14:20
LOL, out of all the opportunist type product plugs that get peddled on here - that has gotta be the most "in your face" effort yet. BILL, that was pathetic.
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Follow Up By: Member - Pezza (QLD) - Friday, Jul 29, 2005 at 21:08

Friday, Jul 29, 2005 at 21:08
Hey David,
Isn't there some way of getting rid of this clown? I realize that he has paid 50 bucks for membership, but thats pretty cheap for the advertising he tries to get. I figure you recently removed another member from this site and he wasn't half as offensive as this idiot!

Avagoodn
Pezza
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Follow Up By: Member Eric - Saturday, Jul 30, 2005 at 08:18

Saturday, Jul 30, 2005 at 08:18
Offensive is calling someone a idiot I think. I have never seen another post from Bill, I might just do a search. We also do need some controversy on here to make it interesting , otherwise it will be borring.

My intention is not to offend you Pezza , but if he" is "trying to fool some one , it didnt work . He is just plugging the best way he knows , Ok lol , it aint the best , but its to his ability.

We cant get rid of everyone that makes us laugh , otherwise it will become boring and we will turn on each other lol .

Regards EC
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Follow Up By: Member - Pezza (QLD) - Saturday, Jul 30, 2005 at 12:17

Saturday, Jul 30, 2005 at 12:17
G'day Eric,

After re-reading again this morning I have to agree with you that it was a little harsh, I know one of my bad points is that I don't have much patience for people that do thing like the above, and tend to be abrupt at times, SWMBO reminds me quite often that I'm about as subtle as a 'tank rolling down hill'. ( one advantage to that was at least people never missunderstand me, LOL) I am trying to become more tolerent, though still get a little carried away sometimes.
So if your reading this Bill, please accept my appologies, I was out of line. Last time I did a search, every time your name popped up you were trying to plug your product, didn't think things had changed much when this one popped up, but having done another search I realize that there were quite a few posts that I missed since then where you were using your knowledge to genuinely help people, and if more people did that, the world would be a better place. ThoughI still think your above post was unnecessary and over the top.
Thanks for pointing it out Eric, we are many different personalities in this world, which makes it the interesting place that it is, though hard to know what others think sometimes unless they speak up.

Avagoodn
Pezza
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Reply By: ev700 - Friday, Jul 29, 2005 at 12:47

Friday, Jul 29, 2005 at 12:47
Longreach

It is about maximising profit through unnecessary service ie fraud.

I rang the RACQ recently after the Ford dealer offered a 'flush' of the (petrol) fuel injection system. The reply was that it was unnecessary, probably did not work and finally the flushing fluid could damage seals and components. Scary.

It's not a new thing, some years ago a loca garage always conned my mother into adding expensive 'shots' of lubricant/conditioner to fuel she purchased. The garage argued that certain motors always 'ran dry'.

Don't manufacturers ever QA vehicle servicing or repair by dealers?

AnswerID: 122704

Follow Up By: crewser - Saturday, Jul 30, 2005 at 16:10

Saturday, Jul 30, 2005 at 16:10
"unnecessary service" Had a mate who was offed a job as a service mananger in a large car dealers and was offed $15 for every extra he could sell to coustomer (ie injector flush brake flush ect.)
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Reply By: Wizard1 - Friday, Jul 29, 2005 at 12:58

Friday, Jul 29, 2005 at 12:58
Love how all those "extra fries" come at a price. When do we det the "meal deal" 5000 km service, tyre rotation and radiator flush" for the discount price.

I'm always amused at the look on the service desk "numpty's" face when you tell them to adjust the bill as they didn't actually replace my air filter has I have a Unifilter, and if they did replace it I want a new one.

The best one was taking the car back after 2 weeks when I discovered they had only put in 2/3 of the oil I was suppose to have, evidenced by the oil light coming on intermittently. But to thier credit they replaced all the oil on the spot, rather than just top it up.

But at least the tyre shine is free, isn't it?
AnswerID: 122705

Follow Up By: Member - MrBitchi (QLD) - Friday, Jul 29, 2005 at 13:21

Friday, Jul 29, 2005 at 13:21
Ahh.... ever see that little bit of fine print that says "workshop consumables"?
Nothing from a dealer is free >:-p
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Reply By: Banjo - Friday, Jul 29, 2005 at 13:24

Friday, Jul 29, 2005 at 13:24
Do they work?
A few years ago a company Magna that was serviced as per the book on time, every time, also had the 'engine flushing' done as an extra at each service.
At 60,000 km the motor seized due to lack of oil circulation. When they opened the motor up there was so much sludge and gunk that the mechanic stated that 'this has never had an oil change, no wonder it's buggared'.
So did the Mitsubishi dealer even change the oil at the service let alone add the conditioner?
Banjo WA
AnswerID: 122712

Follow Up By: Gerhardp1 - Friday, Jul 29, 2005 at 16:30

Friday, Jul 29, 2005 at 16:30
That's par for the course for Mitsubishi I reckon; some of their chief executives are in jail for not recalling deadly faults. If their chief executives are crooks, the culture must flow through the whole company.
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Reply By: Member - Banjo The First (SA) - Friday, Jul 29, 2005 at 13:26

Friday, Jul 29, 2005 at 13:26
No - its all, pure, glitzy sales hype - I'm with Ev700 - its close to fraud - been there and seen enough of it. These people are actually schooled up to creatively extract money in anyway possible (while sailing extremely close to the legal wind). They spend a lot of time inventing scenarios for this purpose - as usual, value for the customer is not on anyone's agenda at these places. Same as Vets - they plug the heartworm, dateworm, earworm,eyeworm, everyworm scare campaign at every opportunity - and the dog gets some of the most expensive drugs ever known to science ! The dog is fine, but he needs these drugs - your car runs fine but it needs an injector service !
AnswerID: 122713

Reply By: Mudguard - Friday, Jul 29, 2005 at 14:23

Friday, Jul 29, 2005 at 14:23
g,day, it does'nt matter what vehicle make or appliance it is, it comes with a gimmick based on fear,what if and ignorance.Extended warranties,first dealer service and you must use factory spareparts oils etc and their service techs.If you had a complaint about some council, shop or provider the Consumer watch dog would be jumping up and down ringing TV stations but mention poor tradesman work,lack of correct or excess jobs undertaken,warranty work it falls on deaf ears.
My son had work experience for school so i told him to go to a large local car dealer it opened his eyes what he was asked to do and we're paying top service prices!
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Reply By: at4x4 - Friday, Jul 29, 2005 at 14:23

Friday, Jul 29, 2005 at 14:23
Some interesting skeptics here, who have no proof, other than what they think is correct it would seem, in bagging the workshop......

Now, we arent a dealer, but we do have a throughput of 50-70 cars a day, and can tell you that our $1800 of equipment, and $60 per litre injector cleaner, when used correctly will fix rough idle, improve low down pulling power, and in some cases improve pre detonation, normally in car yard prepared vehicles which need to run correctly, though we do offer the service at 50k km, or 100k km intervals to the customer, if they wish. Used more as a tool, than a "service" in our case.

Generally, if the vehicle uses Optimax, or similar, this can do a similar thing to fix low down miss or rough idle, especially in mercedes etc, and may require up to 2 tanks to improve.

Cant speak for pouring anything in the tank, because we only use recognised methods, and I cant speak for what the dealer does, but I can see a benifit in such products, when used correctly, not "over serviced" and used correctly.

Just thought some of you might like some factual info on such products in comparison to what some dealers may, or may not be doing.
AnswerID: 122719

Follow Up By: Gerhardp1 - Friday, Jul 29, 2005 at 16:37

Friday, Jul 29, 2005 at 16:37
We only use "recognised methods" can mean anything - recognised by whom?

I'm sure Wynns recognise any method which uses their products

As you say yourself using Optimax will clean injectors, so how can you then say fuel additives can't work? Isn't optimax a fuel with a different additive from non-optimax.

Everyone is entitled to their self justification I suppose, but that doesn't make anyone more "right" or "wrong" than the next person.
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Follow Up By: Gerhardp1 - Friday, Jul 29, 2005 at 16:38

Friday, Jul 29, 2005 at 16:38
We only use "recognised methods" can mean anything - recognised by whom?

I'm sure Wynns recognise any method which uses their products

As you say yourself using Optimax will clean injectors, so how can you then say fuel additives can't work? Isn't optimax a fuel with a different additive from non-optimax.

Everyone is entitled to their self justification I suppose, but that doesn't make anyone more "right" or "wrong" than the next person.
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Follow Up By: at4x4 - Friday, Jul 29, 2005 at 17:57

Friday, Jul 29, 2005 at 17:57
well, recognised methods is like the person who thinks they know vs the person who has hard facts and cases that prove to them it is worthy or not to do so, and how it works best, perhaps its your concience playing with you but "right" and "wrong" wasnt really part of the equasion, just what trained mechanics who are recognised find, when they use materials and equipment they know intimately, to get a result.
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Follow Up By: Gerhardp1 - Friday, Jul 29, 2005 at 18:10

Friday, Jul 29, 2005 at 18:10
My conscience isn't playing with me, but perhaps yours should, since you bag fuel additives in one breath and then support a fuel which contains additives in the other. That doesn't sound like objective judgement to me, nor is it logical, so one wonders how "facts" are interpreted when gaining the "experience" you speak of.

Everyone in life is a product of their experiences, and most people don't use logic when arguing/discussing issues - they just use their own experience which results in their views being necessarily flawed, distorting "right" and "wrong".

This is not a bagging of all humans, rather a recognition of how we "work". The problem only occurs when people believe they are so experienced that they can close their minds to other "facts" and then to begin to argue their prejudices.
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Follow Up By: at4x4 - Friday, Jul 29, 2005 at 18:55

Friday, Jul 29, 2005 at 18:55
I think your so full of your own bulldust you have not taken into account other facts, as you have so rightly pointed out, because I dont see any "facts" from you, and you cant even get my facts right, because no where do I "bag" additives, I simply say I cant comment, because we dont use them, though I have passed on for those interested, what we have found, with our throughput, with vehicles that were an issue, before they came to us, perhaps you could also be of some other value than just "nuisance" ?????

And before you go off half cocked again, try and add some truth, fact, and common sense to your reply, because when you act civil, we may be able to start treating you that way in return.....
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Follow Up By: Gerhardp1 - Friday, Jul 29, 2005 at 19:10

Friday, Jul 29, 2005 at 19:10
Looks like the truth hurts - out come the insults when you can't understand the logic. That's pretty much what I would expect.
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Follow Up By: at4x4 - Friday, Jul 29, 2005 at 19:14

Friday, Jul 29, 2005 at 19:14
I simply pointed out some problems with what you call truth, but if you wish to play the man instead of the ball, you perhaps need to grow thicker skin, or get alot smarter alot sooner, because what your trying to achieve here [what ever that is] doesnt appear to be working.......
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Follow Up By: Gerhardp1 - Friday, Jul 29, 2005 at 19:33

Friday, Jul 29, 2005 at 19:33
Thank you for proving my previous points - you are pretending that your attack on me is actually me attacking you, and you are accepting it as one of your facts. How good is that!!!
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Follow Up By: Member - Banjo The First (SA) - Friday, Jul 29, 2005 at 20:42

Friday, Jul 29, 2005 at 20:42
Fair comment from a genuine contributor I'm sure - but I'm no sceptic - when I say I've been ripped off by organised fraudsters (technically true)at a large dealership, that's what I mean !
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Follow Up By: at4x4 - Saturday, Jul 30, 2005 at 08:01

Saturday, Jul 30, 2005 at 08:01
Gerhard, I dont see a pojnt to your ramblings as yet, and though youve been asked, i dont see any facts or data to prove yourself right, or wrong on the actual topic here.

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Reply By: flappa - Friday, Jul 29, 2005 at 14:23

Friday, Jul 29, 2005 at 14:23
Just run through a couple of tanks of Premium 98 RON PULP.

All of these are supposed to have excellent detergent properties to cleaning fuel systems.

Seems to work for me ?
AnswerID: 122720

Follow Up By: at4x4 - Friday, Jul 29, 2005 at 18:58

Friday, Jul 29, 2005 at 18:58
read my post above, you will see it has been successful for us, in some mercedes for low down miss/rough idle issues after 1-2 tanks.
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Follow Up By: 120scruiser - Friday, Jul 29, 2005 at 21:16

Friday, Jul 29, 2005 at 21:16
I agree.
We had a GQ come through the workshop taking up to 6 goes to start each morning. I told her that she had leaking injectors, after doing pressure tests, and to run some tanks of PULP. After a week it was down to 2 starts each morning and the fuel samples cleaned up dramatically.
We still removed the injectors and replaced them as none held pressure but the earlier result proves it works.
Each car that gets a service at our shop gets a treatment of Nulon in the tank. We use the fuel additive to clean throttle bodies when removed and it disolves the crap instantly in front of your eyes.
I still believe an off car injector service, being remove fuel baskets and pintles, ultrasonic bathed and new pintles and new caps and o rings will improve your economy 50 to 70 km per tank. Proven in our workshop time and time again. Depending on what the dealer classes as an injector service, a bit ambiguous.

Just my 2 bobs worth
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Follow Up By: at4x4 - Saturday, Jul 30, 2005 at 08:00

Saturday, Jul 30, 2005 at 08:00
I didnt touch on cleaning throttle bodies yet, as some werent to receptive to the topic already ;-)

But another good service schedule item for customers,a nd item to help toward rough idle, fuel consumption, along with o2 sensors.
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Reply By: TerraFirma - Friday, Jul 29, 2005 at 15:26

Friday, Jul 29, 2005 at 15:26
Just pop a bottle of Nulon Injector cleaner in (yes this stuff really does work) when you are going on a trip and you'll be surprised. Also on the Nulon stuff don't buy it the servo for $13 or $14 buy it at Super Cheap or somewhere like that for $9.95. It usually does tanks. The dealers are being trained nowdays to sell the fries because of shrinking margins.
AnswerID: 122723

Follow Up By: Gerhardp1 - Friday, Jul 29, 2005 at 16:44

Friday, Jul 29, 2005 at 16:44
Dealers also do this when you buy a car, new or used - it amuses me when they try to flog you paint protection, etc for a used car which has already had the treatment after the original buyer was sucked in.

I read somewhere that a VW dealer charges $2995 dealer delivery to wash a Golf GTi, so If you bought one of those and got sucked into the treatments, window tint, etc you would pay an additional $2500-3000 for those items making about $6000 for the dealer on top of the profit they make on the car itself. Shrinking margins?? What were they making before margins shrunk to this level?

Don't believe the crap that they don't make anything. I'm sure that everyone on this forum that is in business realises that it is correct to make a profit (but maybe not as much as a dealer???), just as everyone who has a job correctly expects to be paid.
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Follow Up By: Member - Alan- Friday, Jul 29, 2005 at 17:32

Friday, Jul 29, 2005 at 17:32
It's good job car salesmen or Main Stealers have thick skin or they'd never sleep at night with the comments made about them on every forum to do with vehicles. But it's been a hard won reputation and comes from years of treating the car owning public as complete dopes who they know have virtually no way of getting recompense from them when things stuff up.
I've given up taking my vehicle to the dealers as all they do is change the oil and filter (filter only when pushed) then charge the earth.The one I used to use over fills the sump, charge the absolute top whack for the oil and then sticks on an "environmental levy" of $9.50 to get rid of the old stuff!
Ask them about it and there's just a shrug and they give some gobble gook bull.
The people I take to now aren't cheap but when I look underneath at least it looks like drain plugs have been out so I feel a bit happier about the service.
A.
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Reply By: Member - Nick (TAS) - Friday, Jul 29, 2005 at 21:11

Friday, Jul 29, 2005 at 21:11
Poor mechanics-doomed if they dont,doomed if they do!!
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Follow Up By: ev700 - Saturday, Jul 30, 2005 at 00:38

Saturday, Jul 30, 2005 at 00:38
Nick,
I don't think anyone is bagging mechanics as a group.

Consumers want value for money and they expect dealers to play with a straight bat, to be ethical in their dealings.

Professional dealerships and good mechanics should have a vested interest in reducing sharp practices in the motor industry.

There are rogues in all areas of life, and they bloom where where self-regulation is limp and ineffective in controlling them.

EV700

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Reply By: Michael ( Moss Vale NSW) - Sunday, Jul 31, 2005 at 19:35

Sunday, Jul 31, 2005 at 19:35
Besides the fuel cleaner thing, Nissan dealers ring you after you drop the vehicle off, just when you have been at work an hour or so, Sir!! would you like theAir conditioning "deodorised"!!!! 'its due now'. I guess its just the balance of the same foul smelling bottle that they leave in your vehicle when you pick up in the arvo. Just spray it in the airintake i guess for $80-00.
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AnswerID: 123041

Reply By: Member - Bill S (NSW) - Monday, Aug 01, 2005 at 12:51

Monday, Aug 01, 2005 at 12:51
TO Micheal of Moss vale. Hi micheal I will be up there on thursday next week4.08/05 look me up and I will talk to you in person so that you will be able to let the rest of the foram members know exactly what this fitch can acheive.Then
you too can evaluate it to let members know it is not immagination as some would suggest.I am prepared to fit it to one of your nissans to prove my point.And you dont pay for it until proven how fair is that?

happy motoring BILL
AnswerID: 123125

Follow Up By: Wombat - Monday, Aug 01, 2005 at 13:12

Monday, Aug 01, 2005 at 13:12
So Bill your continual promotion of Fitch is indeed unmitigated advertising.

I suggest you read the ExpolorOz Terms and Conditions. You'll find amongst them - It is a condition of your use of any Communication Facility and your access to the Site that you do not do . . . . "post, transmit or in any way exploit any material of any kind for commercial purposes, or which contains any promotional material or advertising;"
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Reply By: Member - Bill S (NSW) - Monday, Aug 01, 2005 at 13:25

Monday, Aug 01, 2005 at 13:25
HI Wombat, If it pleases you I will mos certainly desist from uttering phrases that will help us all to breath longer will extend OUR fuel supplys,will make all our motors last longer,and most of all save everyone of us money. Then mate so be it your are in control you answer any question related and answer them correctly.

Thank you for your input I am out BILL
AnswerID: 123132

Follow Up By: Wombat - Monday, Aug 01, 2005 at 14:16

Monday, Aug 01, 2005 at 14:16
Dear Bill,

I have just noticed that Fitch is a bona fide advertiser on this web site. Congratulations on this decision - I hope your expected sales targets are met. My humblest apologies for the criticism of your promotional post, as it transpires I was out of line.

Once again good luck!
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