re oil chande for diesel motor

Submitted: Thursday, Dec 05, 2002 at 01:00
ThreadID: 2537 Views:9340 Replies:17 FollowUps:46
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Have new pajero deisel and the service is every 15000k. am told to change motor oil sooner. some say every 7500k others every 5000k what should i do as i have no experiance in this area and need your advise which has always been correct in the past regards peter
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Reply By: OziExplorer - Thursday, Dec 05, 2002 at 01:00

Thursday, Dec 05, 2002 at 01:00
Peter phone the toll free Mobil Technical Support who will give all the good oil - 1800 033 863 We have used Mobil's LubeLine for over 20 years, and have always got the best advice from them. All our large equipment and vehicles are serviced according to their specifications.

Predominantly we use synthetic oils exclusively. Synthetic saves you a lot of money in unnecessary servicing and maintenance and break downs.
Here is two links about synthetic.
http://mr2.com/TEXT/synth_oil.txt
http://www.users.conninc.com/pgoodson/SynthOil3.htm
AnswerID: 9336

Follow Up By: Oziexplorer - Thursday, Dec 05, 2002 at 01:00

Thursday, Dec 05, 2002 at 01:00
Peter, personally I own a Mitsubishi Triton 4WD 2.8 diesel, and I service it every 15,000km. As for servicing more regularly, it is totally unecessary with synthetic. In the service manual it says 7,500k's to service, but with synthetic we go to 15,000k's. The oil tests at 15,000k's are perfect. We may even start going to 20,000k's.
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Follow Up By: P.G. (tas) - Thursday, Dec 05, 2002 at 01:00

Thursday, Dec 05, 2002 at 01:00
Just a minor point on one of your posts. 5,000k oil change .... environmental vandal? Toyota speifies for their late model, tubo diesels, 5,000km normal driving or 2,500km for continuous city driving or when towing! When it comes to excess of 10-15,000 bucks for a diesel rebuild, I reckon the costs involved with 2,500k oil changes are a pittance in comparison with the long term consequences! Cheers!

PS The bottom line is ... the more regularly the oil is changed, the longer any motor will last. How long do you plan to keep the vehicle can be another argument.
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Follow Up By: Kezza - Thursday, Dec 05, 2002 at 01:00

Thursday, Dec 05, 2002 at 01:00
pg - $10-15000 for an engine rebuild - send em to me Ill do em for $9000
kezza
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Follow Up By: Derek - Saturday, Dec 07, 2002 at 01:00

Saturday, Dec 07, 2002 at 01:00
Oziexplorer. On the assumption that you are being honest about your qualifications (you should be familiar with the C.A.R.S checklist for searching the net) and that I happen to agree with your comment that 5000k oil changes are 'environmental vandalism', I will tell you a story about my 1HZ and maybe you can give me some advice. When I was servicing a fleet of trucks and earth moving equipment, we were instructed to change the engine oil on all the trucks at 10,000ks regardless of their make. In all my 25yrs as a fitter with this 'company' we never had one engine failure that could be attributed to infrequent oil changing. So when I bought my 80 series (with 65,000ks on the clock) I started changing the oil at 10,000ks and after a while my oil light began taking longer and longer to go off at cold starts. As the car was under warranty, I took it to Toyota and they agreed to look into the problem. The first visit to them saw a new oil pump fitted. The second visit saw all the external oil plumbing and valving removed and checked and a leakdown test done. The third visit resulted in a complete engine stripdown and measure up. They said the engine tolerances were well within the acceptable limits which was surprising since the engine took around 10 seconds to build up oil pressure on a cold start. They gave the car back to me and apologised that they did not know the cause of the problem and they could help me no further. Small consolation for me! A few weeks later they phoned me and said through a chance coversation with a dealership in Sydney, they may have discovered my engine's problem. Back I went and new oil squirters were fitted. Bingo, problem gone! Apparently there are small check valves inside each squirter to prevent the lubrication system from draining. Now happy, I went back to my 10,000k oil changes and low and behold the problem recurred. The car was now out of warranty and the local dealership abandoned me so I wrote a letter to Toyota Australia and was politely told to urinate into the wind as 10,000k oil changes were too infrequent and 'sludging' was occuring, preventing the check valves from sealing. They advised me to find an engine oil with a high detergent content and instal it every 5000ks then possibly the check valves would be flushed clean and begin sealing again. I have only done 1 oil change and 3000ks since adopting their advice without any noticable change so far. Sorry for the short novel but I thought you may be interested in all the details. My questions to you are:-
1) Have you heard of this mallady before?
2) Would changing to a synthetic oil offer the same supposed cleaning properties?
3) And lastly, can you tell me what brand and viscosity oil you are using in your NATURALLY ASPIRATED DIESELS. You made mention of this in your first posting. Thank you, Derek.
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Follow Up By: Oziexplorer - Sunday, Dec 08, 2002 at 01:00

Sunday, Dec 08, 2002 at 01:00
Derek, no, I have never heard of that problem, and have been around all brands of four wheel drive vehicles for to long.
I personally use Mobil Delvac 1, some of my friends use Mobil 1, as for them they can use the Mobil 1 in their diesel, lawnmower, wifes car, motorbike etc; and they buy it at KMart when it is on special or one of their 15% or 20% discount days. In my case, we have Delvac 1 for other vehicles. If I did not have access to Delvac 1, I would also use the Mobil 1 5w-50

You see, I just cannot understand or comprehend why lube oil bypass filters are not more common. A bypass system will remove the particles in the oil that create the problems. The majority of bypass filters are in the 1 to 3 micron range. The cost of a bypass filter if you do it yourself is in the order of $160.00. That includes the filter body top, filter, and the hoses and bits and pieces needed. The major issue with fitting one of these is getting the oil back into the engine. With so many vehicles having double sumps has made life a tad more difficult, however in many engines you can put the oil back in to the engine via the tappet cover which makes life easy.

Just look at the European diesels which are at 20,000k services. Reason is they are fitting these vehicles with proper lube filtration equipment and using better quality oils.
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Follow Up By: Derek - Monday, Dec 09, 2002 at 01:00

Monday, Dec 09, 2002 at 01:00
Ozie. Thanks for the info. I presume the Delcon 1 is a synthetic oil. I am certainly considering switching to this kind of oil, but I must first solve this start-up problem. Toyota recommend 5000k changes- what would you advise if I used a synthetic oil? Thanks for your reply. jarrett@powerup.com.au
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Reply By: Chris- Thursday, Dec 05, 2002 at 01:00

Thursday, Dec 05, 2002 at 01:00
G'day Peter,
I dont own a Mitsubishi, have a Toyota, but regardless, its a diesel engine and you need to protect it as best as possible to get a good healthy long life out of it. I'm no expert with oils etc, but I would be doing oil and filter changes every 5000K. It can only be a good thing, and if you do it yourself, its not that expensive. At the same time, pour injector cleaner into the fuel tank as a preventative measure.
However, as the other people have said, you can more than likely get away with longer periods- esp with synthetics. And in no way am I saying that my method is the best or only method.
But then again why would you turn down a chance to get under the bonnet and get dirty ;)
Up to you mate.

CHeers,
Chris.
AnswerID: 9338

Follow Up By: Chris- Thursday, Dec 05, 2002 at 01:00

Thursday, Dec 05, 2002 at 01:00
Oops, forgot that you may have issues with warranties etc on a new vehicle if you do it yourself.
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Follow Up By: Oziexplorer - Thursday, Dec 05, 2002 at 01:00

Thursday, Dec 05, 2002 at 01:00
There is nothing in the warranty today that can impinge upon you by doing it yourself. The main thing is that it is done correctly.

Changing the oil and filters every 5,000k's is just plain ridiculous, and an environmental vandal, not even taking into account the financial cost. 5,000k services went out with the dark ages. What does your handbook say?
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Follow Up By: Chris- Thursday, Dec 05, 2002 at 01:00

Thursday, Dec 05, 2002 at 01:00
Mate, my baby has almost 300,000K on it. 5000km oil changes are bloody sensible- not "vandalism" or "ridiculous". Having said that, I really think its horses for courses on this one. And when your baby is as special as your woman, I reckon she deserves a similar budget ;)
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Reply By: Truckster - Thursday, Dec 05, 2002 at 01:00

Thursday, Dec 05, 2002 at 01:00
What is your engine worth?

Mine worth a lot more than 2x $10 filters and $50 of Shell Rimula every 5000k's.. I think I would die if I had to rebuild the GQ. or the Wifes Mazda V6 626!! I'd be standing on a corner with a banjo and pants around my ankles.

One way to look at it, ->> how long you intend keeping the car, if its long long term 10yr+, look after it better than if only 2-3 yrs. Sounds stupid, but thats the way I look at it. If you keep it 10yr, go for 5000klms, if only short term, then 15,000klms.. that way when you get rid the car, the problems start, then its out of your hands.
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Follow Up By: Oziexplorer - Thursday, Dec 05, 2002 at 01:00

Thursday, Dec 05, 2002 at 01:00
If you sought out the correct information and did the correct things to ensure the longevity of your engine, you would realise the falicy of changing the oil every 5,000k. It is rank stupidity to change oil and oil filter every 5,000k, not taking into account the environmental or financial loss. Get the correct and proper information.
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Follow Up By: Truckster - Thursday, Dec 05, 2002 at 01:00

Thursday, Dec 05, 2002 at 01:00
Changing oil more regularly cannot be bad for an engine. Dont care what anyone says... All my bikes and race bikes lasted more than mates, and only had one blow up in 20 yrs, that was a faulty piston, the ring locating pin fell out.. bye bye barrel, piston, crank, rod etc..! Oh and no warranty since it was raced.... :'(

How can it be?

Financial loss, that would be blowing the motor up. I dont have $6000+ sitting around to rebuild it ... (specially since Useless Family assistance say they overpaid us $1400 and would like it back by Dec 27th...bye bye Long range Tank)

I got the car second hand, dont know its history, so I gotta do the best for it I can, and since I do a lot of hard offroading (not fire trails) the oil takes a flogging...

YMMV...

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Follow Up By: Tuco69 - Thursday, Dec 05, 2002 at 01:00

Thursday, Dec 05, 2002 at 01:00
Truckster, there wouldn't be a single motorcycle manufacturer who doesn't use synthetics in their race bikes!
In every event from world class motocross, enduro, grand prix, superbike, bears, world speed record - you name it - synthetics are used, because they provide the absolute best lubrication protection that is available!

I am somewhat suprised when in all your claimed years of racing, that you have not used them yourself.

I also race bikes.

I am involved in an engine oil analysis program using Mobil 1 (5W-50) in my 1KZ-TE 3.0 Litre turbo diesel Toyota Surf. The manufacturers recomendation is 5,000K oil and filter change using mineral based oil. The mobil lab analysis on the synthetic has shown that even after 10,000K - it has better specs than new mineral oil.

Do yourself a favour and follow the links that Ozieexplorer provided - and have a detailed read on the subject, and some of the tests that have been done. There are trucking companies, world wide that are running synthetics to 200,000 MILES, with only filter changes, and achieving massive reduction in costs and environmental disposal gains as well.

Tuco
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Follow Up By: Oziexplorer - Thursday, Dec 05, 2002 at 01:00

Thursday, Dec 05, 2002 at 01:00
Truckster you should convert your 5,000km oil changes to 10,000km oil changes and fit a bypass oil filter that filters out the sub 5 micron which causes the damage. This would put you in front financially and save you wear and tear and the environment. This is really the way to save your engine, not changing the oil more frequently than is necessary. Oil itself does not wear out, it is the contaminates that cause the problem. The trouble is the filter you have on your vehicle does not filter out the fine contaminents which cause the wear. My diesel oil does not look black like everybody elses does just after an oil change, reason, I don't have the gunk in my lubrication system floating around that makes it black.
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Follow Up By: Truckster - Thursday, Dec 05, 2002 at 01:00

Thursday, Dec 05, 2002 at 01:00
Tuco69

I never said I dont use Synthetic.... I said I changed it more often than all my mates, and in 20 yrs and 33+ bikes to have 1 blow up, tell me thats not a good record? Unmatched in our club...

Thats from Trials (yes Ty80!), MX, Enduro, then road racing, from 250's, GP bikes thru to superbikes....

Oh and lets be honest, none of us know what oil the top teams are using... Its probably synthetic, but nothing like the crap u or me get hold of... They used to run on R30 and R40 which is Castor oil...

We took some out to Caltex when I was racing to the Kurnell Rfinery to see what was good and what was bad, this was in around 84, and the results shocked us all....
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Reply By: Joe - Thursday, Dec 05, 2002 at 01:00

Thursday, Dec 05, 2002 at 01:00
I have, by and large, believed in following the maker’s service intervals so I would normally stick to that. However, it is normal in all the makers’ handbooks to qualify the service interval with a usage clause. Basically, if the vehicle is used in dusty or otherwise harsh conditions then the service (especially the oil change) interval is halved.

What is to be regarded as harsh? Well I have always thought of heavy traffic conditions as harsh, or most off road work, in fact anything other than 100kph cruising on an open road.

With these thoughts in mind I have opted to normally halve my service intervals and do the 5,000 klm oil changes.

Environmental vandals? You do have an argument there Ozi and I do try to do my best to limit the impact be ensuring that my old oil goes to a place where it gets recycled.

Wastrel? Maybe, but like Truckster I regard these frequent changes as cheap insurance.

Synthetic oil? I have never used it although I am aware of its superiority. Its two major benefits are (I believe) superior lubrication and longevity. Well, the mineral oils I use lubricate well enough for me, so the superior lubrication qualities don’t attract me. Longevity? I actually use the oil change time to check under the truck to see if there is any damage or an indication of impending failure, so the regular change interval also acts as a reminder for me to get under it and check things. If I used synthetics then, being a lazy devil, I wouldn’t check things for much longer periods.

So Peter, you are faced here with a variety of opinions ranging from my (and Truckster’s) halving of the change interval through to sticking with the interval and on to Ozi’s doubling of the interval (providing you use the right oils to support such a stance).

What are you going to do?
AnswerID: 9342

Follow Up By: Bob Y. - Thursday, Dec 05, 2002 at 01:00

Thursday, Dec 05, 2002 at 01:00
Hello All, We run 4 Toyota vehicles here as well as a bit of heavier gear.(Caterpillar) Do oil changes on toyotas every 5,000 km, with eng. oil filter change very 10k, using Rimula X 15W/40. Our conditions are hot, 47*, 51* & 48*, over the last three days, dusty, and we have a variety of drivers - the regular changes are good insurance, and as Joe says above, the working side of vehicle gets a more regular check. Who was calling us stupid? Regards to all...
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Reply By: chrisfrd - Thursday, Dec 05, 2002 at 01:00

Thursday, Dec 05, 2002 at 01:00
Sorry Oziexplorer.. Your information is just plain WRONG!


Nissan AND Toyota REQUIRE 5000K change intervals for their diesels.

Otherwise, kiss your warranty goodbye!

Oil these days is recycled into many useful products! Products that come to mind that are made from old oil include bitumen, stabilisers in plastics and cutting lubricants for machine work. Oh.. And they make recycled engine oil from it too!
AnswerID: 9344

Follow Up By: Oziexplorer - Thursday, Dec 05, 2002 at 01:00

Thursday, Dec 05, 2002 at 01:00
Which model Nissan require 5,000k services? Certainly not the current model 3.0l diesel. My ED33 Nissan was 8,000k, my SD24 was from memory 7,500k.
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Follow Up By: Chrisfrd - Thursday, Dec 05, 2002 at 01:00

Thursday, Dec 05, 2002 at 01:00
Sorry OziExplorer.. Wrong again!

I've got a ZD-30 based Patrol (rocket ship in third, anything lower is pathetic!) and the manual specifies (page 8-6 and 8-7) that the oil must be changed every 5000K's, with the oil filter every 7500K's unless vehicle is used in hot and dusty environments. The adverse conditions statement says that "If the vehicle is operating in hot or dusty conditions, the vehicle should have the engine oils and filters changed every 55 hours or 2500Kms" (page 8-7)

Additionally, we have a Mitsubishi Triton diesel and guess what? The book disagrees with your statements!

What it comes down to is an application of "first principles" of what the oil actually does. The oil is designed to do two things.

1. It is supposed to COOL the engine components. (Yes I know that it's a water cooled engine, but without the oil performing this function too, you would need components to withstand very high tempuratures!)

2. It is supposed to lubricate the metal to metal friction surfaces, such as bearings, pistons, cam lobes and bushes. It does this by either "splashing" the components, or "immersion" of the component. The oil is either surrounding immersed components, or the oil is pushed into it, as like in a turbo-charger.

In the oil there are detergents, that help breakdown the blow-back from the combustion cycle, (called soot), heat breakdown and the dirt and crap that gets into the oil from your breathers and such.

Now, if you use the oil past say 5000K's, or about 90 hours old, the detergent (scrubbing) capabilities of the oil become less effective. What you now have is a very good abrasive compound being pumped around your engine, through your oil-cooled turbo bushes (*NOT* good) and around components such as bearings, cams and cylinder head linings.

Now, in the ZD-30, I have done a few things to make the oil protect a little better. I've added an oil-cooler, (a jumped-up radiator for oil) and a remote oil filter, capable of cleaning down to around 5 micron. (the standard filter goes to about 12 microns and 20 grams of dirt)

What these two devices do is allow the oil to be cleaned MUCH more effectively, by removing carbon deposits from unburnt fuel blowing-by the piston rings, heat damage to the oil and such. Additionally, I have cooler oil as I remove the heat to the oil by using an oil thermostat and oil cooler. This keeps the oil down below the break-up tempurature and prolongs the engine components life. They only cost $145 from Supercheap! The spin-on filter replacements cost about $200 from Cooma Diesel.

It's entirely up to you as to how you look after your vehicle, but as for me, I stick religously to the book!

Also, it is not possible to test the oil's performance by "just looking at it". You will need to send a sample to a laboratory! If you have access to a microscope with 400x mag, have a look of dirty oil as compared to the same batch of oil as when it was clean.... It will scare you....

By the way, I haven't found any fully-synthetic diesel oil yet.. I've found a few of the fortified oils though.. Personally, I stick to a Penrite oil, called HPR Diesel Light, as it offers a good spread of tempurature performance, coupled with a semi-synthetic base. It's not cheap, but it's good!!
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Follow Up By: Oziexplorer - Thursday, Dec 05, 2002 at 01:00

Thursday, Dec 05, 2002 at 01:00
ChrisFrd, Wow, you have a different Triton book to mine. Pity you cannot post pictures here. Mine definetly says 7,500k's for the 4M40 engine. As for the ZD30, I know my next door neighbour's book is 8,000k's. I just checked to see if he was online to confirm, but he aint. To change the oil every 5,000 and the filter every 7,500k is just not logical or practical.
I also use a bypass oil filter, and would never be without one. I fully realise what the oil does, but using a FULLY synthetic diesel quality motor oil (from the Mobil website quote: Mobil Delvac 1 SAE 5W-40 is a fully synthetic diesel engine oil designed) it is wasteful in the extreme and stupid to change the oil at 5,000k's. If you use a quality product like Mobil you can avail yourself to Mobils testing services.
Check out this link:
http://gulfcoastfilters.com/why_do_we_change_oil.htm
Check out the photographs at the bottom of the page.
Your 5 micron bypass filter does not excite me, 2 micron with a max of 3 would.
What is this? "The spin-on filter replacements cost about $200 from Cooma Diesel" is that the complete bypass filter unit? Whose/which brand do you use?
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Reply By: Wayne - Thursday, Dec 05, 2002 at 01:00

Thursday, Dec 05, 2002 at 01:00
Hi Guys, I'm intrigued. My '99 hilux 3.0 litre diesel has oil and filter change every 5,000 kays by the service manual. Don't tell me I'm getting dudded? ;-) Will be exploring the sites you mentioned Ozi.
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Follow Up By: Oziexplorer - Thursday, Dec 05, 2002 at 01:00

Thursday, Dec 05, 2002 at 01:00
Great money making lurk for Toyota dealers. If they designed the engine properly, 10,000k would not be a problem. 5,000k is an absolute waste of money. Fit a bypass oil filter, change to synthetic, and 15,000k's or 12 months would not be an issue.
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Follow Up By: Truckster - Thursday, Dec 05, 2002 at 01:00

Thursday, Dec 05, 2002 at 01:00
Wayne, if you dont play their game your warranty is out the window....

Do what you feel is right.. Also betting Nissan/Toyo/Ford/Mitz etc dont give a bleep te if Mobil make an extra $10 a week.....
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Reply By: Axel + Karen - Thursday, Dec 05, 2002 at 01:00

Thursday, Dec 05, 2002 at 01:00
Best bet is to follow the factory recomendation,,millions of $$$ are spent on research and development of the vehicle,,,,, as for mineral or synthetic oils,,,,where do all our forum experts seem to think synthetic oils come from ?? the raw materials magically apear in the lab,?????
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Follow Up By: Oziexplorer - Thursday, Dec 05, 2002 at 01:00

Thursday, Dec 05, 2002 at 01:00
Suggest you go and do some research on synthetic oils:
http://mr2.com/TEXT/synth_oil.txt
Then go to the Mobil website for further research.
About time people stopped being environmental vandals.
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Reply By: Member - Mal - Thursday, Dec 05, 2002 at 01:00

Thursday, Dec 05, 2002 at 01:00
My 2002 TOYOTA LC 100 series with the 1HD-FTE engine requires oil and filter changes at 10,000 KM and halved for harsh comditions. Mal T.
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Follow Up By: Oziexplorer - Thursday, Dec 05, 2002 at 01:00

Thursday, Dec 05, 2002 at 01:00
If you fitted a sub-micron by pass oil filter and changed to synthetic, 15,000k plus would not be an issue. At say 14,000k send a small sample to Mobil for testing to see how much furthur you can go on it. In petrol engines 25,000 or 12 months is not an issue on synthetic.

People in Australia are living in the dark ages of lubrication and the car companies are bleeding you financially on services.
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Follow Up By: Truckster - Friday, Dec 06, 2002 at 01:00

Friday, Dec 06, 2002 at 01:00
Dont do anything but what the manufacturer wants... Your warranty may depend on it, and IM betting a 1hdujioshngtf-fcf engine is around $5-10k to rebuild.....

2.8 or 3.0 GU is $17000 for COMPLETE rebuild after hydraulic lock! Mate knows that one.
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Reply By: Member - Mal - Thursday, Dec 05, 2002 at 01:00

Thursday, Dec 05, 2002 at 01:00
My 2002 TOYOTA LC 100 series with the 1HD-FTE engine requires oil and filter changes at 10,000 KM and halved for harsh comditions. Mal T.
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Reply By: StephenF - Thursday, Dec 05, 2002 at 01:00

Thursday, Dec 05, 2002 at 01:00
I agree broadly with Ozi. If you use the oils recommended in the vehicle handbook then use the oil change intervals recommended in the vehicle handbook, and if you use a better (eg. synthetic) oil, and/or a better filter, then it stands to reason that the oil change intervals can be extended. Halving the oil change intervals as "cheap insurance" is foolish and wasteful. How do you know you're doing any good? The answer is: you don't. Unless you've had the old oil analysed you haven't got a clue whether the fresh oil is going to do any better job than the half-used oil you've wastefully drained out. Some of you have had good results by halving the intervals, but how do you know that you would't have equally good results by going the full distance? Again, you don't.

Engines and oils have got a whole lot better over the years. I remember when the recommended oil change interval for a Holden was 1000 miles! To ignore this progress and dump the oil early for no other reason than you think it's a good idea is not very bright.
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Follow Up By: Truckster - Thursday, Dec 05, 2002 at 01:00

Thursday, Dec 05, 2002 at 01:00
Firstly who says that the synthetic oil is better? the bloke selling it? the company???

How do you know your doing any good???
logical I would have thought... Sure not doing any harm....
Keeping thick good clean oil in there, and getting all the crap and garbage out in the filters, adn oil. Also helps you to find problems earlier like metal in the oil..... If you do have and you didnt know for another 10,000klms, Im thinkin you is up for lots more cabbage.....

To ignore this progress and dump the oil early for no other reason than you think it's a good idea is not very bright.

Saying its not very bright is the dumbest thing thats ever been posted here!
Dude, do what you will.. My engine is going to have clean oil... simple as that.
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Follow Up By: Stephenf - Friday, Dec 06, 2002 at 01:00

Friday, Dec 06, 2002 at 01:00
Go for it Truckster - it's your money. Why stop at 5000kms, why not 2000kms or 1000kms or every week? And if you don't believe that synthetic is superior you're really not up with it.
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Follow Up By: Truckster - Friday, Dec 06, 2002 at 01:00

Friday, Dec 06, 2002 at 01:00
Thats it Steve... Its my money. For the $50 it costs me to keep it good, Im happy and thats all that matters....
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Reply By: Phil G - Thursday, Dec 05, 2002 at 01:00

Thursday, Dec 05, 2002 at 01:00
Hate to see facts get in the way of a good argument!

But ..... theres a few bits of info missing here.

Diesels build up soot in their oil. Too much soot leads to oil thickening which leads to poor lubrication.

Want more info, go to http://www.hiflo.com.au/mainframeset.html and look for the technical article on "oil thickening in light diesel engines".

The newer direct injection EFI diesels build up less soot than indirect injection diesels hence the longer service intervals on some motors such as the new Pajero diesel and Toyota's 1HD-FTE.

THe older desiign indirect injection diesels (eg my 1KZ-TE Prado) are prone to oil thickening and Toyota give a stern warning in the handboook to this effect. (sorry to break this to you Tuco)

IMHO, the manufacturers have done the research and I'll stick to their recommendations and expect a very long life from my motor. I wouldn't waste money getting synthetic oil dirty with soot. Just my opinion.

Cheers

Phil G
2002 Prado 1KZ-TE
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Follow Up By: Tuco69 - Friday, Dec 06, 2002 at 01:00

Friday, Dec 06, 2002 at 01:00
Phil, I recently had a lab analysis done on the Mobil 1 (5W-50) that I use in my 1KZ-TE Surf. The oil had done 9,842 K's (with a filter change at 5,000 K's) and the viscosity of the sample is 105 cSt @40C compared with a new oil sample which is 102 cSt@40C - a negligible change. A similar test with multigrade mineral oil had the viscosity DOUBLED at only 1,500 K's.

I posted a full report at:

http://forums.overlander.com.au/messageview.cfm?catid=5&threadid=2073

... if you are interested.

Tuco
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Follow Up By: Phil G - Friday, Dec 06, 2002 at 01:00

Friday, Dec 06, 2002 at 01:00
Tuco,

I know what the analysis means. I've had it done myself with past vehicles. But a lot depends on the type of driving you do. 10,000km of easy highway driving will be fine. But if I go away and crawl around the Vic High Country, tow a van, do short trips or cross some deserts, then I'll need to to alter my oil change interval. I couldn't be bothered doing oil analysis to see whether my oil will make 10,000km under those conditions. Easier just to change it to be sure. Costs me $30 to put the latest Valvoline CH-4 oil in at 5000 km - I have no problem with that.

Also, sharing your results is interesting and quite educational. But it doesn't prove that synthetics are superior for a turbo-diesel. I think you'll find that you'll get the same results from a good quality CH-4 mineral oil.

Cheers

Phil G
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FollowupID: 4744

Reply By: Michael - Thursday, Dec 05, 2002 at 01:00

Thursday, Dec 05, 2002 at 01:00
Hi all, I have my 1999 Patrol(4.2d) serviced only every 20,000kms by Nissan. I run a By-pass filter in addition to my standard oil filters. I cant fit the correct size unit in my engine bay so i use a standard car size and change it every 2,500kms. It takes 5 minutes, half litre top up and costs $5.00 for the element and $2.00 for the oil. Removes all water, condensation and particles down to 1 micron. It's done 240,000 in 3 1/2 years and its just getting better. Costs $140.00 and you can move it from vehicle to vehicle. You can actually see the difference on the dipstick, and the metal particles on the end of the filter, it's the best money that i have spent. Also makes your normal spin-on's last longer as it scavenges continiously while the engine is running.
Cheers Michael
AnswerID: 9366

Follow Up By: Michael - Thursday, Dec 05, 2002 at 01:00

Thursday, Dec 05, 2002 at 01:00
Opps, forgot to mention that by-pass filters are the best protection for turbo bearings and not frequent oil changes,
Cheers Michael
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FollowupID: 4734

Follow Up By: Member - Mal - Friday, Dec 06, 2002 at 01:00

Friday, Dec 06, 2002 at 01:00
Michael, Where and how do you fit the bypass filters? I Have a Toyota 1hd-fte. Does it fit between the spinon and block? do you have to tap into the oil distribution system? Is there a site I could look at? Thanks, Mal T.
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FollowupID: 4739

Follow Up By: Michael - Friday, Dec 06, 2002 at 01:00

Friday, Dec 06, 2002 at 01:00
Mal, , you can fit it anywhere you have 120mm square hole, tee piece in oil pressure switch, it has a 1mm hole in an adaptor, and only flows about 1 litre a minute, anymore and it would drop your gallery pressure. The return goes back to the sump, via various methods. The company called Filter Technology, near Newcastle, the old filter 2000 company, I used to be a distributor for filter 2000 and i swear by them.It keep your oil perfectly clean and in petrol engines it keeps the colour of the oil the same honey colour as is from new. Diesel's go a little darker but you can see the dipstick through the oil on it. Michael
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FollowupID: 4740

Reply By: ray91 - Friday, Dec 06, 2002 at 01:00

Friday, Dec 06, 2002 at 01:00
the 5000klm oil change is mainly in the turbo diesels,the heat in the turbo destroys the oil that is why 5000klm oil changes.Also any diesel engine oil gets contaminated with soot . The by pass filter you talk of is just that, if the filter is blocked the oil by passes it, dirty oil stright to the bearings ect,not good for any engine.
AnswerID: 9371

Follow Up By: Ray91 - Friday, Dec 06, 2002 at 01:00

Friday, Dec 06, 2002 at 01:00
just had a look at the Amsoil by pass filter ,its an additional filter to filter smaller particles to keep the oil clean,if blocked the original filter is still in line
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FollowupID: 4735

Follow Up By: Oziexplorer - Friday, Dec 06, 2002 at 01:00

Friday, Dec 06, 2002 at 01:00
Ray do you realise how long it would take to block a main oil filter!

Many turbo engines go to substantially longer service intervals than 5,000k. Check out the European small diesels. About time Australians stopped getting ripped-off and being told garbage by vehicle companies. 5,000k's is a good money making racket. Lubrication knowledge is in the dark ages in Australia, bit like our diesel fuel (about to change) About time people did a little research. With a bypass filter and quality oil 10,000 k's plus on a turbo diesel is not a problem. The newer water cooled turbo's place nowhere near the demands on the oil that they used to.
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FollowupID: 4736

Follow Up By: Truckster - Friday, Dec 06, 2002 at 01:00

Friday, Dec 06, 2002 at 01:00
Ozi

It may take 12 months to block it, but get it wrong, and it could be 10 mins after an oil change... If you miss a few changes and a blob of gunk builds up, u changing the oil might be what it takes to dislodge it... Anything can happen with engines these and old days..Ever heard of Murphys Law?

Turbo Diesels treat their oil like crap, and make it look old within around 100klms if that....

Hey dont worry people, everyone do your own thing... I happen to respect my donk, and giving the bearings a fresh bath every 5000klms is ok by me.
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FollowupID: 4750

Follow Up By: Tuco69 - Friday, Dec 06, 2002 at 01:00

Friday, Dec 06, 2002 at 01:00
Truckster said:
Turbo Diesels treat their oil like crap, and make it look old within around 100klms if that....

I agree with your observations in most respects, but there are quite a few new engines that don't dirty the oil with soot.
A friend bought a new Benz Sprinter a few months back. 2.5 Turbo diesel - and the first scheduled oil/filter change is at 20,000k. We pulled the dipstick on the weekend, at about 6,000K and the oil is still clean!

Tuco
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FollowupID: 4752

Follow Up By: Truckster - Saturday, Dec 07, 2002 at 01:00

Saturday, Dec 07, 2002 at 01:00
Tuco,

Do that when its got 50-100,000klms on it and I bet its a different story!
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FollowupID: 4765

Reply By: bozo - Friday, Dec 06, 2002 at 01:00

Friday, Dec 06, 2002 at 01:00
I hope to god that I don't stumble onto Ozi's four wheel drive on the second hand lots when it's time to replace mine!!!!
AnswerID: 9372

Follow Up By: Axel + Karen - Friday, Dec 06, 2002 at 01:00

Friday, Dec 06, 2002 at 01:00
Bozo,,,little chance of ozi ever puting any of his onto the 2nd hand market,,,with his stance on synthetic oils instead of mineral [natural], his vehicles are all plastic as well.
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FollowupID: 4746

Follow Up By: Oziexplorer - Friday, Dec 06, 2002 at 01:00

Friday, Dec 06, 2002 at 01:00
Bozo by name and bozo by nature. People are always queueing to buy my vehicles second hand as they know how well they are maintained.
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FollowupID: 4749

Reply By: Derek - Friday, Dec 06, 2002 at 01:00

Friday, Dec 06, 2002 at 01:00
Jeez Peter, you really started something here. Is your head spinning? I bet its got a grin from one side to the other every time you access your emails. My question is:- are ANY of you Industrial Chemists or Chemical Engineers?
AnswerID: 9380

Follow Up By: Oziexplorer - Saturday, Dec 07, 2002 at 01:00

Saturday, Dec 07, 2002 at 01:00
Derek I have a Phd PE, MBA Hons, LLB Hons, but anybody can be a scientist. A scientist is about researching, observing and recording.
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FollowupID: 4758

Follow Up By: Axel + Karen - Saturday, Dec 07, 2002 at 01:00

Saturday, Dec 07, 2002 at 01:00
Real easy to give oneself a phd .ba .masters ect on an internet forum,and use some real names as in WALTER MITTY,,
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FollowupID: 4759

Follow Up By: Chris- Saturday, Dec 07, 2002 at 01:00

Saturday, Dec 07, 2002 at 01:00
More importantly, scientific communication entails objectivity, restraint, courtesy and politeness, under the assumption that ones research might not be infallible.

...lets talk 4wd.



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FollowupID: 4761

Follow Up By: Oziexplorer - Saturday, Dec 07, 2002 at 01:00

Saturday, Dec 07, 2002 at 01:00
Axel or Karen, jealousy is not a good trait.
Go and have a look at European diesel engines on current models/well lets say last 3 years, and you will see 20,000km is the norm. You imbeciles are incable of comprehending or doing any research.
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FollowupID: 4769

Follow Up By: Truckster - Sunday, Dec 08, 2002 at 01:00

Sunday, Dec 08, 2002 at 01:00
Ozi...

We can do research and bleep like that, but I happen NOT to believe everything I read on the net, and in books...

Sorry to bleep you off, but thats life eh.

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FollowupID: 4777

Follow Up By: Axel + Karen - Sunday, Dec 08, 2002 at 01:00

Sunday, Dec 08, 2002 at 01:00
OZI, jealous of what,,a blown out ego????
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FollowupID: 4778

Follow Up By: Oziexplorer - Sunday, Dec 08, 2002 at 01:00

Sunday, Dec 08, 2002 at 01:00
Truckster, start digging your 6' 1820mm deep hole.
Must be crook when you are old and cannot keep up to the times and learn new things and move with the times.
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FollowupID: 4785

Reply By: StephenF - Saturday, Dec 07, 2002 at 01:00

Saturday, Dec 07, 2002 at 01:00
Settle down Ozi! Some people don't like the facts getting in the way of some good ol' home-spun philosophy. If we ask nicely maybe they'll send us their old oil so that we can finish using it.
AnswerID: 9395

Follow Up By: Oziexplorer - Sunday, Dec 08, 2002 at 01:00

Sunday, Dec 08, 2002 at 01:00
Na, they use lousy oil for a start and they don't have lube oil bypass filters fitted.
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FollowupID: 4786

Reply By: Member - Chris - Sunday, Dec 08, 2002 at 01:00

Sunday, Dec 08, 2002 at 01:00
Well, gone for a bit and hear I am thinking that this forum was for help. From trying to sell 5 micron filters, to advertising one's educational achievements, to abuse , this topic has gone everywhere eh!. Now for me, it's 5000km oil/filter with religous application of Penrite HPR diesel and the old air breathing troopy works wonders. You can hear and feel the relief from the front. Oh, and it's in the book as well and pushed by word of mouth from the those that enjoy the troopy feeling. As for the newer TD jobs, don't know sorry and won't comment. However, as for the plus and minus environment vs engine issue, for me the engine comes first and then I recycle the surplus oil at the tip. My 5 cents worth Peter is to follow your OEM recommendations and change it when they say, or more if you feel comfortable.
AnswerID: 9415

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