Hand helds

Submitted: Tuesday, Aug 23, 2005 at 16:47
ThreadID: 25815 Views:2667 Replies:5 FollowUps:3
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G'day, I'm looking to buy a couple of hand held UHF's, Q- is it better to go for more than 1 watt? Q- does more wattage= better reception?
More than likely these handheld will be used more at home here than when traveling but when traveling happens useage will just be between two vehicles.
thanks
andy
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Reply By: Member - Nick (TAS) - Tuesday, Aug 23, 2005 at 17:40

Tuesday, Aug 23, 2005 at 17:40
I got a 1.5 wt digitor have called home at over 5kms away which really surprised me.I got car charger,home charger.vox head gear and rechargable batt. for $115.These units arnt real high quality but we only use them a few times a year and find them great.
AnswerID: 126468

Reply By: Member - Sam (NSW) - Tuesday, Aug 23, 2005 at 17:58

Tuesday, Aug 23, 2005 at 17:58
Andy,

the watt rating usually refers to the transmitting power of the unit. Reception is really dependant on the antenna. (someone please correct me if I am wrong).

I have a couple of GME TX610's (only 1W output though)

cheers,
Sam.
AnswerID: 126474

Reply By: Wetty (W.A) - Tuesday, Aug 23, 2005 at 19:34

Tuesday, Aug 23, 2005 at 19:34
Hiya Andy.
I have an Icom IC40 hand held which will transmit at 1 or 5 watts. At 1 watt gives me round 5 k's and 5 watts gives me round 30 (on flat ground no trees) I guess it depends on your budget and how far you need to be able to transmit. It is also able to send sel call and use CTCSS so I can have private conversations with my Icom IC 400 Pro in the car.
Good luck deciding.
Cheers
Wetty.
AnswerID: 126496

Reply By: VK3CAT - Tuesday, Aug 23, 2005 at 22:07

Tuesday, Aug 23, 2005 at 22:07
I will try and keep this relatively simple in order to explain the relationships of antennas, power, batterise etc.
Doubling your output (Transmit - TX) power from 500milliwatts (1/2 a watt) to 1 watt will not double your transmit range but will probably double your battery power consumption.
Thus, there is no great advantage in increasing the TX from 1/2 a watt to 1 watt (an increase of 3db).
An increase of 1/2 a watt to 5 watts is a significant increase (10db) but TX time will be shorter due to the increased power consumption.
The advantage of the more expensive 5 watt units is that they have the option of high or low TX power output. They can generally also be fitted with more efficient (higher gain) antennas that will provide both better transmit range and reception.
Higer gain antennas work best in flat open areas as the transmit signal from the antenna (radiation pattern) is concentrated at a lower elevation (angle of radiation). This is how the antenna gets its "gain". In more hilly or mountainous areas, a lower gain antenna with a higher angle of radiation may out perform the high gain antenna.
The higher the antenna and the clearer it is from obstructions, the better the range will be.
It is possible that with enhanced propagation (generally tropospheric ducting) that even a 1/2 watt signal may travel for many 100s of kilometres but this should not be relied upon.
What this all basically means is that you are best either purchasing some cheap 1/2 watt units or spending bigger money on the 5 watt units. There is not much advantage with anything inbetween.
Cheers, Tony.
AnswerID: 126539

Follow Up By: robak (QLD) - Wednesday, Aug 24, 2005 at 09:27

Wednesday, Aug 24, 2005 at 09:27
Hi VK3CAT

I don't know much about the topic, actually nothing at all, that's why I'm curious as to why you say, "There is not much advantage with anything inbetween."

Wouldn't "anything in between" be, well, somewhere in between?
I thought that a 2.5 watt has a greater TX range then a 1 watt.

Cheers

R.
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FollowupID: 381156

Reply By: VK3CAT - Wednesday, Aug 24, 2005 at 13:00

Wednesday, Aug 24, 2005 at 13:00
Hi Robak.
With Radio frequency (RF) output you are working with the law of diminishing returns. Doubling the output power will not double your range. It will make a noisy signal a bit more readable but that is about it.
Likewise with amateur radio VHF and UHF services, increasing output power from 25 watts to 50 watts won't dramatically affect the output range. It is better putting up a better antenna instead!
An increase from 1/2 a watt to 1 watt is a gain of 3 decibels (3dB), from 1/2 a watt to 2 watts is 6dB gain and from 1/2 a watt to 5 watts is 10dB gain. This is a logarithmic scale.
A 10dB increase in output will make a noticable difference.
The more output power (watts) the greater the battery power consumption = less usage time.
As the 1/2 watt UHF units are really cheap - 2 for about $49.00 for fathers day, it makes more sense purchasing one of these at $25.00 per unit than say a 1.5 watt unit (3 times the power but possibly 6 times the price) that will not perform all that much better (aside from construction quality etc.)

The same for UHF radio is true for HF radio. On the HF VKS737 network for example, with 100 watts output, the only legal way to increase your signal is to improve the antenna system (which should remain portable!). With an older model radio that may only have 30 watts output, the effort put into a better antenna system will outway that of using and external 100 watt Linear amplifier. Now 400 watts into a really decent antenna system WILL make some noise!

I hope that this helps.
You can see me on http://www.qsl.net/vk3cat
Cheers Tony.
AnswerID: 126618

Follow Up By: Cruza Ute - Thursday, Aug 25, 2005 at 00:22

Thursday, Aug 25, 2005 at 00:22
Wow you sound like you know whay your talking about.

I've got a question you'll find easy -

what type/brand UHF and antenna is the best for my truck at around $500?
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FollowupID: 381300

Follow Up By: VK3CAT - Friday, Aug 26, 2005 at 19:15

Friday, Aug 26, 2005 at 19:15
Hi Cruza Ute.
Not an easy question & one that I am unable to precisely answer. I am not really up to date with all the new models on the market today!
I have an old Electrophone TX4000 that has proven to be very good and reliable. It is not the very first batch of these radios that suffered from intermodulation problems. I also have an old Pearce Simpson 2020 UHF which has a remote head and police receive. It is a bit junky in construction and the menue system is a real pain to use. Then there is the old Philips FM620. Never did like the idea of a plastic case and the PAL (TV type) coaxial connector is a poor choice. Otherwise it works OK.

With the new radios on the market today (Amateur as well as CB), the most important thing is that it performs its primary task well, so you need to take away the bells and whistles (especially wide band receive) and see how it goes. Also, how easy is it to use - especially for people not familiar with radio things?
Radios with a high gain front end (receiver) may be more prone to suffer from intermodulation (reception of unwanted signals from other frequencies due to front end overload). This is generally worse with high gain antennas and only a problem in the city centres or close to other UHF transmitting sites (eg. Police, Comercial repeaters)

I see that some radios offer CTCSS (continious tone coded squelch system). This does not give you any privacy. It just means that you can't hear any other traffic on the channel unless it is transmitting the same sub-audible tone. The emergency services use CTCSS to limit interference to there communications. In the amateur service we use it for reducing interference and limiting repeater access for different license grades.
My thought is that Selective calling is best as the new radios will identify the senders Selcall number and it can be used to establish if you are in range (very similar to VKS737 beacon call)

Other issues are the mounting location. Will a remote head be best. Can the display be read at different angles and in bright sun light? Will over heating be a problem? New radios with litle heat sinking may tend to get hotter than their bigger cousins. Never mount the radio in the direct blast of the car heater!

I noticed that Icom have a new model out that has extras programmable by a computer software interface. The main attraction seems to be storing CB channels in as extra channels and utilising the 25 watt output.
This is not legal for the CBRS but will get you heard further. The problem is that transmitting and receiving work together (if you can hear a 5 watt caller, then they should be able to hear you). With 25 watt out put & most others on 5 watts, you may not be able to hear them! Obviously this would be when pushing the outer limits of the distance possible for 5 watts.

Comercial radios from Philips, Motorolla etc can be modified for the UHF CB band. Note that they are not legal for this use due to the high output power amongst other reasons. They are not as easy to use as a purpose built CB radio. CTCSS is often available but is not user switchable and Selcall may not be an option. Generally options require both hardware and soft ware changes.

Hope this helps. It could be the start of a whole new thread. Probably left out heaps but this is already toooo long!
Cheers Tony VK3CAT
http://www.qsl.net/vk3cat
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FollowupID: 381559

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