Defender Extreme

BTW, he is looking at the 110 not the 90...

If he is a good friend do him a favor and tell him not too.
They are the biggest pieces of sxxx put on this earth.

Shnogdog,
When I was looking to change I took a 110 Extreme out for a test drive, for me it was still a boxy as the same old Land Rover of old, Same trim a few extra lights and buttons, still had the old air vents in the front. The finish wasn't brilliant, had a lot of fruit, lekky windows etc. I'm a Rangie fan, a bit biased I s'pose. The passenger seats in the back where tight to the front seats, leg room wasn't there, wasn't to sure about the third row seating being the lenth of the vehicle rather than across. For me the off road perfomance will always be there, engine was smooth, the transmission was notchy but the vehicle had only done 158 k's, it was an ex demo and very competitively priced. Somethimes I wish I'd taken the plunge, but for 3 grand less I bought a 2000 GU with everthing I was looking for so I went with the Nissan. The paint job was pretty flash and it was different, the alloys also looked good.
My opinions etc

Hi ShnogDog

This is the wrong forum to be asking for an unbiased opinion on Landrovers. Most members of this forum are biased towards Japanese stuff.

If your friend wants a 4WD that will drive like a race car - go Japanese.

If he wants a pure 4WD that will always get you there and come back again - get a Landrover. So what - they are a bit retro and box shaped - maybe a tad louder than the other brands - but when it really counts they are brilliant.

I drive all sorts of vehicles at work - Patrol, Landcruiser, Navara, Triton, Mazda, Hilux, have owned a Cherokee and Lada and we still own a X-Trail - but I reckon our 110 is the best of the lot.

Jeff

A mate of mine was leading finger in a ULR workshop here in Melbourne. He reckons the extreme was the only LR worth considering, don't go near a disco with anything shorter than a 50 foot pole and the new Rangie has too many computers for it's own/owners good... Of course he went out and bought himself a disco before he quit...??? He reckoned the Extreme was a good honest 4by, without some of the inherent problems of other models(I don't know what those probs are/were though)

Had 3 defenders currently a td5 extreme due to trade/sell at 115,000 ks had only a fly wheel replaced under warranty ,another did a bearing in the water pump at 75 thousand Ks. Will buy another one. Some people should wipe their mouth with toilet paper after they talk as they don't know what they are talking about and more crap comes out of their mouths than their a**** . Been to most places in defenders that a lot of these people only dream about.

My mate has the Defender Ute (I think its called a Defender) and apart from the leg room issues and old stye dash as others have pointed he loves it. His only complaint is the turbo lag.

I noticed it when we were "chugging" up a dirt road on a good size hill, my TD Hilux easily held third, he couldnt get the rev's high enough in 2nd to hold it in third.

I certainly dont think anyone could question their "toughness" as a truck.

Cheers,

Glenn.

They are shaped like a box with a body designed in the 50's and inside is an ergonomic nightmare; to wind down the window if you are over 6' you need to be a contortionist and the hand brake isn’t much better. They have a reputation for poor finish and oil leaks and if used off road in conditions that test the articulation or on lots of corrugations, the rivets in the roof can ‘work’ becoming loose and leaking and contrary to popular belief, aluminium panels Do corrode. The gear boxes in the army ones also had a reputation for self distructing too.

That said, if I won Lotto tonight I would go out and buy one. They are the best real four wheel drives around, straight out of the box.

Tongue in cheek mode on:
Wasn't there a Defender owner who had to get an axle airlifted to him on the Canning not more than a few weeks ago? I think there was - a guy I know organised it for him via VKS737.

OR

Should this post come under the heading Friday Funny?
LOL
TIC mode off:

Having said that we ran into an engineer from Mudgee at Georgia Bore who was travelling on his own in a Defender heading west who swore by his.

Having a serious case of Ambo's back I won't ever own one, a trip down the street in those seats would be enough.

From a professional point of view there are far safer fourbies that your mate could put his family in. They are probably his most important assets and I'll bet it'll still spend more time transporting them on bitumen surrounded by other morons (sorry - meant to say road users) than off road touring.

Far more money has been spent on safety engineering and reduced agressivity by the japs than the poms in the last 10 years. And we are far more likely to survive in our late model jap fourbies as a result.

Dave

We trialled 2 Defenders (well Offenders we used to call them) as replacements for some Toyotas in our fleet a few years back. They were the only vehicles in 20 years to actually have broken down in the field where we had to go and recover them with other vehicles. This is a list of the hassles we had. We could not wait until their leases expired and were disposed of (used in the field for mineral exploration)

Backed off the truck at delivery and put straight back on as axle seals were weeping. Seels replaced at least twice a year from then on.
Speedometer calibration 15% out (standard wheels) on both at delivery.
Air con on one worked only periodically for the 3 years we had it - the other back under warranty 6 times
Stereo fell out of the dash on one, came loose on the other (were held in from factory with 2 self tappers (has been modified in later models)
Both had interior trim panels fall off
Both blew turbo pipes multiple times
Door locks collapsed on both
Roll pin on gear stick broke on one - stuck in 3 rd gear
Front steering rods bent on both anytime we left formed roads
Shock mount broke on one
I became good friends with the local Landrover dealer as I was there that often
Forget the ergonomics
Killed the Toyotas through rocky creeks, but offroad otherwise the Toyats did it a gear easier, at easier revs (turbo lag). Off boost they were dogs.
Leasing agent flew up Landrover management to inspect as they wanted to get refund against investement as they were lemons. Landrover reps took away vehicles for 4 weeks and returned them with the promise they were "fixed". Same issues the next week.
These vehicles ended up becoming expensive "town" trucks as none of our staff would take them out on survey.

These vehicle were not abused and serviced per log book

Sorry, but they were just heaps of junk !!!

G'day Shnogdog, maybe it would be worth your while tracking down a landrover club and asking their opinion.
Cheers

ShnogDog
Post this question on http://www.aulro.com (Australian Landrover Online) so you can get your answer from defender owners not toyota owners.

G'Day Shnogdog,
First of all let me say that I hate landrovers, but I am biased as I have been driving them as part of my work for the last 26 years.
However a mate of mine owns a 110 Defender Extreme and wouldn't trade it for anything, admittedly he has done a lot of after market work to it, such a shipping a larger intercool over from the UK, chipping it up, wheel spacers,lockers front and rear, heavier duty drive shafts, the list just goes on. In his opinion they are the most capable 4WD out of the box!! BUT he has spent 10-15k getting up to scratch.
I reakon he could have spent the extra dollars and went for a Patrol.
Cheers
Shawn

the only thing extreme is the pricetag for the worst finished vehicle anywhere on the planet. if your bigger than 4ft 0 you will hate it

Hi ShnogDog

What we have here is - I believe - what would be the normal ration of fors and againsts as you would get for any model of vehicle. If you substituted "Jeep" or "Patrol" or "Humvee" instead you would still have the same ratio of passionate for, passioniate against, reasoned responses, etc etc etc.

Your friend just has to decide for himself.

G'Day Shnogdog

May as well throw in my tupence ... many tossers have.

I'm biased .. have owned four Landies. The current Fender would have to be the best without question. In a much earlier life I also owned a Suzi and an MQ Patroool, I've been around fourbies for a while.

Check out the official Landrover site ... they state there that the Defender is their most capable offroad vehicle, over the Rangie and the Disco. True they are not for everyone, I'd be the first to agree there, but you don't need to spend a motza on aftermarket crap to get them to perform. They do it off the showroom floor. But change the track rod for a heavy duty aftermarket job as the OEM is crap. Other than that I have not had the need to do anything on the vehicle to get it up to scratch.

There is noticeable turbo lag, but you can learn how to drive it to overcome the lapse. I don't intend to rechip as I remain unconvinced as to the long term effects.

The finish is a wee tad less than pleasing, but if that's what you're after you don't need one. Contrary to many statements, the ride and seating is surprisingly good over long distances. We did the Cape and back towing a CT with no probs, not even a flat. The only vehicles we encountered that had come to grief were toy trucks ... a 100 series with a broken front diff, another with a stuffed radiator and a Hilux with a stuffed rear axle ... funny that hey??

Cheers

I never had one, so can't (shouldn't;-)) really comment. So just 2nd hand observations:

1, Land Rover Owner Magazine seems to be full of "how do we fix a broken ____ " type articles.

2, I read on a German globetrotters forum that anecdotally when overlanders meet in Africa, then: Toyo drivers talk about all the places they went to, Mercedes G (or M or something else, sorry ain't sure) drivers talk about all the places they could NOT get to, and Landrover drivers talk about all the places where you can find spare parts;-)

3, Decades ago almost all vehicles (cars and trucks) in Commonwealth countries were British - now there are as good as none (or very few) around. When did you last see a Bedford truck? A Vauxhall? A Morris? Sad really, but surely there must be a reason for this...

Just my $0.02 worth...

Good luck
Ted

Don't know what they're like, I've never even driven one. I've enjoyed reading the controversy a simple question has stirred up though.

Shnogdog
Im the owner of a 05 defender, which I purchased for the same basic reasons as your self -- extended touring, work and family. Sure these vehicles have their little niggling problems, mines got a dash leak, little sound insulation, a hand brake that belts you on the knee, .....the list goes on. But in the end the positives far outweigh the negative. The defender has an excellent payload (remember that when touring), excellent on fuel and a weapon off road.....
I do suggest visting landrover websites. Most landie owners will give you a honest rundown of their vehicles - good and bad. We dont pretend their perfect.
and that they are for every one. Dont let your friend be guided by the tripe that often associates landrover. Last time I checked Nissan/Toyotas weren't with out their faults either.

THANKYOU ALL FOR ADDING TO THIS RAGING INFERNO !!!! I have told my mate that having read all this, and considered all that has been put before us, the simple solution will be .. PAPER<SCISSORS<ROCK !!!

Hey all

Last year we changed from our 100% reliable Disco TDi to a 2003 Defender TD5. Why? The disco was getting old, and we needed the carrying capacity for a family of four's camping needs. The Disco was just a little too small.

Check the payload of almost any other stock 4WD, and mostly once you put the adults and kids on board, plus full tank, recovery gear, some water tanks, a bull bar and fridge, and there's bugger all left if you want to be legal and insured! In fact some big name 4Wd's couldn't take that gear and the passengers and stay within their GVM at all...!

Our Defender is used as daily driver, camper towing and general duties. Now done nearly 30,000km. No mechanical problems beyond a sticking clutch, fixed under warranty. No dash board leaks - and it has now rained on it (at last). Water does get in around the door seals when going through deeper creeks, but that's not a unique landie problem!

Good bits: - easy to pick it out amongst the masses! Off road amazing. Carrying capacity as above. Visibility for driver and passengers great. Power is adequate, and like all vehicles, driven within its limits it's fine. The off road excellence comes at the price of some on-road behaviour, but I'm probably too old to be a Boy racer now (and the wrong gerenartion too. I actually wear my caps to keep the sun off my nose, rather than off the back of my neck...). Re-sale value should be excellent. Old body disguises the ABS and capable engine.

Bad bits: Aircon flat out is not all that effective. (But the opening flaps below the windscreen are the best way ever to quickly empty hot air out of a car!). Foot room in back seat is poor... Our son will eventually grow to be 6 foot plus and won't fit comfortably in the back seat. Ours will go on sale by then... By the way, I'm 6ft2in tall and not much less wide, and find the seating and comfort fine... Not as good as the old disco, but still fine. Ergonomics are for pansies... Turning circle is not small, but others can be worse. Economy is wonderful, but it needs a bigger fuel tank (70-something litres is not enough). Family safety is a concern, so it is driven as carefully as reasonably possible, recognising the inherent limitations of a tall 4WD.

Wife drives it and loves it too. Not as much as the Disco, but she's happy to wander around in it.

Each to their own...and we like ours. Our mechanic says that a LR that is serviced on time every time will be very reliable...even that anti-LR mag 4WD Monthly says as much about used Defenders this month!

Cheers

Rob

Never owned one but they seem to be worth the gamble. If everyone drove the best then we'd all be driving Fords wouldn't we :)

I love reading all the crap about Landies and how bad they are.
It used to upset me until I realised most of it was bar room bull from people who'd heard something from a mate who'd got from his mate, then I stopped getting worried what others think about what I drive.
Yes they are badly put together and tend to leak around the seals, but this is well thought out design 'cos when it rains, it'll wash the dust out.
I've owned a Diso 300 Tdi which was comfortable and reliable, good in the rough but needed a bit more power in sand.
It was also economical and only leaked around the rocker cover and the axle seals where the Pakis in England had put them in the wrong way round!
As my elder brother said about his wife's Range Rovers (about 14 new top of the Rangies over 20 odd years) "Maybe the best 4 wheel drive in the world but they're put together by monkeys!"
I've got an 2003 Extreme now and we've been along the GRR recently, did around 7000klms altogether without a hint of trouble apart from a wrongly installed Smart Solenoid which allowed the starting battery to be flattened.
The seats are comfortable over long distances for both the cook and me, for those who complain of not enough room, try sitting further back from the steering wheel not like a dog begging for a bone with their arms bent and legs tucked up under the dash.
I like it, the cook likes it and that's all we're concerned about!
Happy motoring whatever you drive.
Alan H

Here is my opinion. Defenders even here in Africa are trash. I have owned 2 td5's all spent many hours in the workshops. DONT BUY ONE!!! I admire the LR owners who defend them to the end, but deep down they all know what rubbish they actually are. ( I was one of them) If they dont, thier time is comming, they will sit broken down or live in the workshop sooner or later.

In the end drive what you want to drive, the defender is most certainly very capable but not reliable. If you plan not venturing far from a dealer and want a LR, go for it.

acdc
is just like its name acdc
Does not know what it wants
i hope you do not think past 2 years old