100 series - beefed up coils or airbags

Submitted: Tuesday, Sep 27, 2005 at 19:37
ThreadID: 26812 Views:3512 Replies:7 FollowUps:10
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Hi all.Just bought an offroad coromal silouette which when loaded have found to have tow ball weight of about 250kg.This of course makes the back end of cruiser(100 TD) about 70mm lower.Has anyone had experience, good or bad with polyair type airbags(have been told opposing advice by different suppliers) or is it better to upgrade coils to carry the extra load.Any thought would be greatly appreciated.
Glen
Broome
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Reply By: Ian from Thermoguard Instruments - Tuesday, Sep 27, 2005 at 20:33

Tuesday, Sep 27, 2005 at 20:33
Hi Glen,

The correct way to handle trailer ball weight is NOT to beef up the rear springs, it is to use a proper weight distribution hitch (Hayman-Reese, Trailboss, etc). Yes, stronger springs and/or air springs (Polyair or others) may well return your LC to a level attitude. But they will NOT return the original weight to the front axle and as a result, you will have less braking capacity and possibly less steering force available when towing - when you may well need it most.

Look at it like this: Your Cruiser is a see-saw which pivots about the rear axle. When you put 250kg of down force on the tow ball, you must, by simple physics, be reducing the weight on the front axle by between 50 and 100kg. Even if you lift the sagging rear axle up 70mm with strong springs or air bags, it makes no difference to the weight being supported (or no longer supported) by the axles.

On the other hand, a 250kg weight distribution hitch distributes up to 250kg of ball weight between the tow vehicle front axle, the tow vehicle rear axle and the trailer axle(s). Yes, the weight is still there but it's being shared around. When a weight distribution hitch is properly adjusted, the weight on the front axle is the same before and after hitching the trailer (easily confirmed by measuring the height from ground level to the front guard).

Now, there will no doubt be objections from the camper trailer fraternity that W-D hitch restrict the articulation of trailer hitches in extreme conditions. Fair enough, but what proportion of the time do the vast majority of CTs actually spend in extreme rough road conditions? Even the true adventurers' rigs probably spend 95%+ of their time and kms on the bitumen. And when you do get well off the beaten track (and I don't mean when you first leave the bitumen) and need full articulation, simply remove the W-D hitch. In this situation, it may be advantageous to have Polyairs or similar which can be pumped up to restore your rigs level attitude to tackle the rough stuff without excessive grounding-out.

Stronger springs and/or airbags have a legitimate purpose if you're regularly or permanently carrying a lot of weight in the back of the vehicle. We have a near-permanent load of about 250kg of tools, spares and camping gear in the back of our Discovery. For a couple of years, we handled this with Airlift bags in the rear coils running around 15 to 20 psi. This year we decided the original coils had done enough work at 180,000km and put in Lovells HD springs. These put the Disco back to original ride height + about 20mm, with our 'normal' load in the back. But it will still drop 70-80mm when we hitch up our 2200kg caravan, before the Hayman-Reese hitch is attached. When it is the whole rig returns to a level attitude.

Last thing, Glen; 250kg sounds like a very high ball weight for a unit the size of a Coromal Silouette. I'd guess its loaded weight should be about 1500kg? So, using the conventional wisdom that ball weight should be around 10% of total weight, I'd have thought 150-160kg would be its ideal ball weight? Is there anything you can do about the trailer's weight distribution?

Ian
AnswerID: 132045

Follow Up By: glenk - Tuesday, Sep 27, 2005 at 21:18

Tuesday, Sep 27, 2005 at 21:18
Thanks Ian.When I weighed the front of the trailer I got a huge shock.I am aware of the 10% rule.Unfortunately most of the storage is at the front, including inside storage.Will work on loading a bit more before heading off.Would it be fair to assume though to some degree that if a cruiser has a maximum tow ball weight of 350kg,then if loaded with 350kg things should still be reasonably safe up front ie steering and braking.What im saying i guess is that 250kg is well within the limits and by lifting the rear end up will give better clearance and should be safe anyway.
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FollowupID: 386362

Follow Up By: Croozer - Tuesday, Sep 27, 2005 at 21:33

Tuesday, Sep 27, 2005 at 21:33
Glen,
Your cruiser is rated to accept up to 350kg ball weight, but instead of all of this weight being placed behind the rear axle (which will take weight off the front wheels) you should be trying to spread this weight as evenly as possible between the front wheels, rear wheels & and trailer wheels. This is precisely what a Weight Distribution Hitch does. You will still technically have the same ball weight.

Stuart
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FollowupID: 386369

Follow Up By: tessa_51 - Wednesday, Sep 28, 2005 at 08:10

Wednesday, Sep 28, 2005 at 08:10
Glen
I think you have got to look long and hard at the weight distribution in the camper. 250kg at the ball would indicate that the rig is way out out of balance and could become very dangerous. For some reason manufacturers insist on putting storage spaces in the front end of these things without any thought to what you, the consumer will put in them. At a guess I would say you are probably carrying tent poles, gas cylinder(s) and jerry can(s) on the draw bar before you even start to fill the front boot. I had this setup on my old Jayco outback and found that to balance everything properly I had to move the pole carrier to the rear of the c/t and pack as much of my internal goodies towards the rear - at least level with or behind the axle. Even with that I had Polyairs installed on the Prado together with OME suspension. As an aside, have you noticed that Jayco stick their spare wheel about 300mm out the back of their off-road campers - IMO an attempt to counterbalance the extra load at the front.
Good Luck with it.

Tessa
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FollowupID: 386399

Reply By: Kruzr - Tuesday, Sep 27, 2005 at 20:36

Tuesday, Sep 27, 2005 at 20:36
I Have Polyairs On My 100 TD. I Tow A Kimberly Kamper With Boat And Fully Loaded And I Run Them With !2 lb In Each Bag, Have Had No Problems With Them In The 2 Years Since They Were Fitted.

Hope This Helps.
AnswerID: 132046

Reply By: Member - Paul P (Bris) - Tuesday, Sep 27, 2005 at 20:50

Tuesday, Sep 27, 2005 at 20:50
G'day

I use Polyairs in the rear of the Nissan. They keep the vehicle level without problems. You must keep air in them at all times (min 5-10psi). I use a low pressure pump ( a bicycle pump works fine) to inflate them.

Had a set on a previous vehicle for 9 plus years without any problems.

Regards

Paul
AnswerID: 132051

Reply By: Member - Trevor R (QLD) - Tuesday, Sep 27, 2005 at 21:03

Tuesday, Sep 27, 2005 at 21:03
Glen,

I'm on my third set of polyairs in 3 different vehicles I simply would not have a vehicle without them now. If you are going to do a lot of towing then by all means think about Ian's response above as it makes very good sense, but I would still get the airbags as well as the tow hitch. My ball weight is 300+ kgs, depending on how the van is loaded, and have never towed with a tow hitch so I can't comment on their contribution to safe travels but I also have managed to steer a cruiser and my current van around a BIG roo under full brakes without side effects (except dirtying my reg grundies). Just need to drive to your skill level and the road conditions when towing.
Go get the airbags as a prioroty, in my opinion.

Regards Trevor.
AnswerID: 132056

Follow Up By: glenk - Tuesday, Sep 27, 2005 at 21:23

Tuesday, Sep 27, 2005 at 21:23
Cheers Trevor. What Ian above said does make alot of sense.Good to hear from you and thanks for your comments.Where on your vehicle did you put the valve/s for inflating

Glen
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FollowupID: 386365

Follow Up By: Member - Trevor R (QLD) - Tuesday, Sep 27, 2005 at 21:32

Tuesday, Sep 27, 2005 at 21:32
Glen,

Valves are put through the bottom of my rear bumper facing down on my nissan but I put them through the rear bumper facing toward the trailer on my cruiser. Can't remember were they were on my Paj.

Cheers Trevor.
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FollowupID: 386366

Follow Up By: Ian from Thermoguard Instruments - Tuesday, Sep 27, 2005 at 21:32

Tuesday, Sep 27, 2005 at 21:32
Hi Glen,

I put our Airlift airbag (Polyair equivalent) valve into the bracket of our 7-pin trailer plug bracket, beside the socket. Quite convenient.

By the way, I too am a great fan of air bags and we still have them in the new Lovells springs (but now at minimum pressure, 5psi). Just don't confuse what they're meant to achieve.

Ian
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FollowupID: 386368

Follow Up By: glenk - Tuesday, Sep 27, 2005 at 21:56

Tuesday, Sep 27, 2005 at 21:56
Trevor

After reading what Ian had to say on the subject,do you see yourself investing in a hayman reece type hitch or do you feel comfortable with airbags alone.

Glen
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FollowupID: 386374

Follow Up By: Member - Trevor R (QLD) - Wednesday, Sep 28, 2005 at 13:59

Wednesday, Sep 28, 2005 at 13:59
Glen,

I've travelled more than 300 000km with this van behind me in 2 different cars and more with other vans behind other cars, I will not be going down the path of weight dist. hitches but that is my choice at this moment in time (will never rule anything out though). I believe if you drive without such a device and feel uncomfortable or unsafe then you should look at such a device but so far I have not felt this way at any time during my travels with my vehicle/van setups.
I am the first to agree that Ian's idea's have solid merit and if you feel it necessary then you should go down that path.

Kind regards Trevor.
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FollowupID: 386438

Reply By: Croozer - Tuesday, Sep 27, 2005 at 21:24

Tuesday, Sep 27, 2005 at 21:24
Hi Glen,
I am just going to briefly back up what Ian has already said in great detail, he is spot on. Beefing up your vehicles suspension is not the way to compensate for towball download from a trailer. The only proper and safe way to fix your problem is a weight distribution hitch (WDH). This will retain your vehicles steering and breaking capability. You should only consider beefing up your vehicle suspension to increase its offroad capabilities and to allow you to carry a heavy load IN THE VEHICLE (not on the towball).
When you require full articulation in slow OFF ROAD situations, and proper load distribution is not as critical for steering etc. simply remove the WDH.

I would suggest you talk to a towbar specialist for advice as in my experience most 4wd stores do not have anyone who is an expert on proper towing setups and will sell you springs or airbags only, not the proper equipment you require.

Have a look here under safer towing & products, weight distribution: http://www.haymanreese.com.au/index.htm

Cheers,
Stuart
AnswerID: 132066

Follow Up By: glenk - Tuesday, Sep 27, 2005 at 21:32

Tuesday, Sep 27, 2005 at 21:32
Stuart

Thanks for the advise and web site. Makes perfect sense.

Glen
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FollowupID: 386367

Follow Up By: angler - Tuesday, Sep 27, 2005 at 22:26

Tuesday, Sep 27, 2005 at 22:26
I agree totally, I always use a WDH when towing the van. The van has a ball weight of about 270Kg and with the 500Kg WDH everything sits very level. I also use polyiars in the rear and set them at around 15psi when towing. I would never tow the van without the WDH. I do deliver vans locally for people and though it is usually only short distances I can really feel the need for using the WDH all the time and thats not always possible due to the setup on some vans.
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FollowupID: 386379

Reply By: Andrews - Wednesday, Sep 28, 2005 at 00:53

Wednesday, Sep 28, 2005 at 00:53
Glen

I have a 100 series l/c and tow a 2.5t bushtracker which has a ball weight of 250kg.

I tried to avoid upgrading the suspension by fitting airbags - it did not work.

The airbags are now inflatable bump-stops.

I reccomend upgrading the suspension ( which is soft in standard form) and using a w/d hitch

Andrew

AnswerID: 132100

Reply By: kiwi2 - Wednesday, Sep 28, 2005 at 13:23

Wednesday, Sep 28, 2005 at 13:23
Glen,

Ian (and others) are spot-on with the advice to fit a WDH hitch to spread the weight. Ask yourself this simple question: how much steering/braking control are you prepared to lose by not fitting one? The answer should be pretty obvious. LOL.

Michael
AnswerID: 132162

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