gas bottle holders "swap n go"

Good one GErharddp1. Now I know why the swap and go system is more expensive than the refill!!!

Make sure you take the "swap'n go" sticker off before you try to get it filled though... At Bunnings in Scoresby I tried to get one filled. I was shown a booklet on refill regs and a $60,000 fine may be imposed for businesses caught filling swap'n go bottles. Apparently all about "swap'n go" managing their quality control commitments and also the bottle remains the property of swap'n go and was not mine to refill. I took my bottle outside, peeled the sticker(as I had intended to keep the bottle anyway) off and fronted back up for the fill... No joy, "come back tomorrow when the other bloke is doing the fills" was the advice given. I would assume the same would apply to Supa Gas an the like. I wasn't completely convinced so when I was at the general store at Navarre, I asked the bloke there about refilling them. He said no way, I asked what you are to do while away from major towns and you run out of gas? He said go for a drive and find a swap station.

Hi Norm, I don't think that really affects their pricing - that type of thing would be factored in so you pay even if my situation didn't happen.

They check them all at their depot anyway and one such as my trade-in would just have the top fittings screwed in out of another one which was rusty and couldn't be re-used. Then a coat of their identifying colour paint and back in safe service. 2 bad ones now = 1 good one.

Hi Blue, I must admit I haven't needed a refill since so hopefully we can find someone who doesn't care. Even if Swap'n'Go owns the cylinder, they surely can't own the empty space inside?? Sounds like some Mafia tactics going on in that industry???

You filla our bottle we breaka you legs

Stuff the bottled gas. I'm sick of the system, moving right away from it for camping. The BBQ under the verandah which we use a coupla days during the week and most weekends for roasts etc will be converted to natural gas. No more bleep in' around :)

How do you utilise natural gass when camping?
Do you fill your bottle yourself from your larger cylinder?

Spade

And bunnings are now selling 8.5 or there abouts... A hares breath under 9kg anyways, equals ripped off in my book as they charge for either a 4.5 and then a 9kg, no 8.? price.

Get to know your local servo bloke/blokett ,,good ones will weigh the empty then fill and reweigh ,only charge by the weight not assumed size/kg.

I note Alloy c/t's comment re having your gas bottle weighed then paying only for the fill and I believe he may have made this point some time ago on another post.

Question is: Has anyone else seen this done, the reason I ask is that I refilled bottles for service station customers for many years, I never weighed bottles and was never questioned about it. Since leaving the industry and now paying for refills I again have never seen it done or offered.
I could certainly see the worth if one were refilling 45kg bottles or simiar but for a 2.5 or 4kg bottle one would wonder.

Has any reseller offered to weigh your camping bottles?

Ian

Definitly no weighing from anyplace ever and I have asked and been told no - cant be done - we dont do that etc etc. only advice I have had was to make sure you use all the gas so you pay for what you get

There's a mob in Shepparton that are bottle fillers. They fill from their bottle system that they use for 90kg tanks that they home deliver.

They put the bottle on the scales.

I have never had any trouble getting 9kg S&G cylinders filled anywhere in country Vic.

How is it that you can take them a cylinder that you own and swap it for a cylinder that they claim to retain ownership on.

Maybe we should apply that rule to 4wd owner ship.

Front up to the local nissan dealer and say here's my used fourbie - I'll take that new patrol overthere for a spin but you still own it. I'll bring it back when I've finished it. Here's a couple of grand - nope dunno how long I'll need it for - depends how often I use it....

Don't see that working just quietly.

Dave

Not sure on the fine print Dave, just what was shown to me in a very large and glossy booklet at Bunnings. They had the relevant page bookmarked, they obviously have had some issues with it.

I actually thought weighing bottles was the norm until recent years. Seems to have been phased out. Not surprised given how much more money they can make out of it.

I would suggest that small country towns weren't aware of this scam until recently however have quickly caught on.

I don't trust swap and go.

Spade

Spade

I have worked in the LPG Industry for 20 years now and in Vic and SA at least, weighing bottles prior to refilling was the exception rather than the norm. The usual deal was to simply 'top up' the bottle by refilling and then charge a fairly standard rate per bottle size.

We started the swap system in Australia as an alternative to refilling for all those people who didn't have the time, or didn't want to, hang around waiting for their bottle to be filled - particularlyat servos.

The servos think it is a great idea as most of them have only 1 operator on and they can't leave the shop unattended while they go out and fill up a gas bottle. The customers think it's great too because they can get a full bottle at any time. The added bonus for thousands of people is that they have traded in a dodgy bottle and got a good one.

The swap system is not a scam - everyone has made a free choice as to which service they want - at no time ever has my company withdrawn the refiller service unless the site requests it. The overwhelming support for the swap system is becoming obvious by the number of competitors who have jumped on the bandwagon.

As a side issue, everyone seems to refer to any brand of swap as 'Swap'n'Go' which is good for our brand recognition but not so good when someone has a complaint as we tend to get the blame for every brand in the market.

Over the top OH&S and other Govt. departments has also seen many refillers decide to give the game away as the rules are too hard to comply with.

Sorry you don't trust the system.

Rocky

Rocky,

Thanks for the in depth reply.

The scam as I see it is you can return (or fill) a bottle that may very well be 1/2 full / 1/3 full already. It will at least have some gas in it.

I see this as being no different to refilling a car. What if the servo charged the consumer for fuel based on the capacity of the fuel tank rather than what was needed to fill it. This simply would not happen because the consumer would not accept it.

The fact that this is the norm in the gas filling business is the scam. Sevo operators could weigh bottles if they wanted to and charge only for the gas sold. They don't because it is simply accepted by the consumer, most of which would not realise there is an alternative.

"Swap and Go" bottle success relies on the consumer belief that if they are going to pay for a full bottle any way why not save time and swap it.

I would bet you that if more consumers pushed suppliers to start charging only for the product that was required (same for filling a fuel tank in a car) rather than based on the capacity of the bottle than "swap and go" may not exist.

Until I read this thread I actually thought weighing was the norm. I can imagine A Current Affair running a story like this. (ACA will run with any story they think might generate some public reaction)

You could answer me one thing, does the accumulative affect of the gas returned to you reflect in the price of your product/service.

I am not trying to pick a fight here but very interested in your further response.

Spade

Spade,

Quite true that some people come in to get a bottle refilled or swap one when they have used very little gas out of the bottle. Hard to work out why they do this but some people think they can only cook one BBQ each time.

On the other hand, more and more people have 2 bottles and either refill or swap when one is completely m/t.

The amount of gas returned in the bottles varies depending on the end user and yes, we do take the average amount of gas returned into account when calculating our prices. Just like we also take into account the fact that we get a whole lot of nice clean bottles back and then we get a whole heap of bottles back that need a fair bit of work done on them and then we get a whole heap back that we have to destroy because they are no good. All fair enough I suppose as some people see us a good place to change over a dodgy bottle.

And then we get the low life that knock off the bottles, break into the cages, graffiti the signs - you name it and everything costs $.

I think you'll find that with most refillers, the amount of LPG sold represents just a very small portion of their total sales and if they were to invest in a set of accurate, weights & measures compliant scales (and have them retested and certified at least every six months) and pay the additional labour costs etc then the price of refilling would most likely rise and then people would complain about that. Could be said here that those people who would like to have their bottles weighed wouldn't complain about non compliance scales - near enough will do. But then again we seem to getting more and more do-gooders out there who seem to think it's their responsibility to put a stop to anything.

From my perspective, there are 2 main groups of people - those time poor and those $ poor. Not being nasty here to anyone but lots of people don't have time to wait around getting a refill and others have heaps of time on their hands and prefer to save a few bucks on refills. Each to his own and either way is fine. The swap system is ideal for those who want to spend their time doing other things.

The best option for those concerned about not emptying the bottles may be to simply buy another one. The added benefit here is that they'll never run out of gas.

On another topic now, how come we don't get a standard trade in on our tyres? Surely when we buy a tyre we should be entitled to use the whole tread. When I get new ones, there's still tread on the old ones.

Hope this response helps - also relief to see that you're not just anti our business, Swap'n'Go, but all swap systems. We just seem to cop it beacuse everyone knows the whole system as swap and go.

Rocky

Rocky

Not sure if I buy some of your arguements, however well put and good to see you stick up for your business. Good to see you make it clear you are not independant.

The tyre tread idea is a bit stretching too, so I would probably drop that one. Stick to the one about pricing affected by gas returned as it is the most convincing.

All the best with all of us knockers.

Spade

Good response, Rocky.

Are you sure 'there's nothiing up your sleeve?' R & B was/is my favourite cartoon.

Banjo (WA)

You must be the life of the party wherever you go - with an opening line like yours - everyone on earth is full if sh1t indeed!

Trouble is, when you mouth off like this no-one will listen to your "facts" simply because you have immediately alienated your audience.

When I burnt the bottle I didn't blame anybody (I just re-read my post to make sure, no - I didn't, that's now established as a fact), nor did I attempt to sue anybody. This fact shows that you can believe some things on this forum, so unfortunately you are wrong about that too.

What do I do for a living - I work and pay taxes to help support the disadvantaged in the community like a good citizen should. I probably pay more tax than you earn so fell free to hang sh1t on that.

Well said Rocky
We sell Swap & Go as well as refilling. if bottles come in part filled they are weighted and charged for what goes in. When our swap cake runs out we use our 190kg to fill cylinders and will fill swap cly if a out of date cyl comes in. As for swaps or out of date cly back into system, they wait until there 100 cly then send in for testing and what ever needs to be done. It is bringing cld`s back into service, that otherwise would be 10 feet high at the local dump. Some of the latest cly being sold can only hold about 8.4 to 8.5 kgs legally. i thing you will find all swap and go are now sold as 8kg`s
Cheers
Charlie

Hello Gerhard,

"Everyone on earth is full of sh1t" - no I just re-read my post and guess what - I didn't make that statement. I simply stated that every reply to the original question was full of sh*t.

Look in the mirror about who's mouthing off.

Great news about how much tax you pay to help the disadvantaged in the community. Good citizen indeed. Pity you then go and spoil the picture by implying that I'm some sort of loser by having a low life job. Maybe I'm one of the disadvantaged you make a big deal about helping.

I don't brag about my wage - I just try to battle on. But I am happy.

Poor old Rocky.

Glad you're happy - the problem is you don't sound it or you wouldn't want to slag off at everybody.

I didn't have a problem with the tone or content of your reply Rocky, informative and to the point.
If Swap and Go do charge a bit more its probably because some people dump their out of date/damaged cylinders in exchange for compliant ones.

G'day Norm,

The bottle you have is yours. The system is a swap system whereby you swap your bottle for another one.

When you do this, you effectively hand over your bottle and it goes into the system. The bottle you take out of the cage then becomes yours. Pretty simple system and if you use it, just make sure you take a bottle that you are happy with.

You can then do whatever you like with your 'new' bottle - swap it through any swap system throughout Australia (not just at Swap'n'Go sites but at any swap cage), or just get it refilled. Choice is always yours.

Rocky

Thanks Rocky, I was largely responding to Blue above.
I can understand why petrol stations would prefer your service. Safety, convenience, time/labour saving.
For my own silly reason, I prefer, when I can, to keep control of my own bottles, so go to a filling station when I can. This is also cheaper (cheaper logistics as the thousands of bottles are not being transported back and forth).
Not knocking your business. It is a great business model, and bound to continue to grow. Just not for me while I have a choice.

Rocky & Nor,

There seems to be a lack of consistency in what vendors of Swap'n'Go are telling the public. As I stated earlier, at Bunnings I was shown a nice glossy book suposedly outlining the regs and from where the bloke was reading me the can't refill/huge fine/not yours(mine) to refill, remains the property of Swap'n'Go. Why would Bunnings turn down a sale unless they believed there was a big issue about it?. What about the little one horse town of Navarre, general store/post office/stock supplies in a building the size of a school portable, about 300k's from Bunnings Scoresby and his won't touch them, not allowed to fill them routine? If the public aren't given consistent info they will sour to the idea. Also, on a public holiday and out of gas(my own stupid fault) i had to buy the Swap'n'Go bottle as I was refused an exchange because my old bottle had no plastic netting around it. I've since seen exchange bottles in the cages with no netting.

Outside of this forum I have had many discussions with people who have had similar experiences to me all over the place. Not sure if they were all Swap'n'Go, it just happens they have a name that sticks in your mind... I know a bloke who gets the Supa Gas home delivery and calls it Swap'n'Go...

Anyhow, I'm not going to knock your job, I think it's a good idea and I'm sure you're happy doing it or else you wouldn't be doing it.

G'day Blue,

You're right about everyone calling it Swap'n'Go - the name is now a generic term for the system. This has it's good and bad points though. Good for us when someone who doesn't have a swap system wants one and looks up our phone number. Not so good when someone has had a bad experience with any swap bottle though.

The Bunnings deal is a classic example of this. Bunnings do not use Swap'n'Go. They use KwikGas supplied by Kleenheat Gas as both companies are owned by Wesfarmers. I don't know why the Bunnings stores have incorrect information. Maybe their supplier has given them it in the hope that you will get onto the KwikGas system instead of Swap'n'Go - don't know but I agree, certainly causes confusion.

I actually know where Navarre is, I'm an ex Horsham boy. Not sure if the bloke at Navarre has Swap'n'Go, but if he does, let me know and I'll make sure he has the good oil on what to do.

The whole deal on refilling a bottle with our sticker on it - your bottle remember - not ours, is similar to someone filling up say a Jim Beam bottle with some other brand of bourbon and them pretenting it's really Jimmy. The policy of not refilling a bottle with any competitors stickers on it was introduced as a result of a couple of back yarders trying to make a fortune of refilling our bottles (and the other major brands) and then pretending they were ridgy didge. I'm OK with competition but let them play the game up straight.

As long as a bottle is in test date, not dented or rusty and is generallly in good nick, then it can be refilled. The fact that it has stickers on it does not mean it can't be. The bottle is also the property of whoever has it at the time.

Hope this clears up a few areas - by the way, I noticed Bunnings are flogging swap for $19 at the moment. Damn cheap.

Rocky

hi Rocky,

the bloke at Navarre didn't at the time(about 18 months ago) have a swap system operating. He was filling out of a couple of big bottles. For the record, he uses scales. We have a property at Barkly, about 15 mins away. I normally remember to fill before I go, occasionally I have a brain fart and get caught out with an empty bottle, he comes in handy then.

Agree with you on the competition angle... It's a niche market and as far as I can tell, there's plenty of opportunity for all players to turn a profit. The back yarders give the whole system a bad name by getting greedy, especially so with "Swap'n'Go" being adopted by the general public as a generic label.

Thanks for clearing some issues up.

Have a nice day
Blue

Hi Scrubrat,

I was interested to get feedback on the weighing thing because as I said previously I've never seen it offered or had it requested. It's not a problem for me personally as I carry a spare 4Kg. cylinder in my camper trailer, should I run out on a trip I swap and then get the empty refilled when back home. I have found that my local Bunnings is way cheaper for fills than any servo.
Like you I prefer to keep my own cylinders

Ian W

Could be a crock Davoe but someone at a servo told me they went to Swap n Go as they need two operators on premises to fill cylinders due to OH & S. They only filled cylinders at shift changeover prior to swap n go.

Dave